Wasn't sure if this was worthy of a new thread, but not long ago a mod said if I have doubts, it's better to start a new thread... so... here we go.
Was looking at Marchand's stats and obviously he's having a tremendous year. 38 goals, 45 assists, 83 points. Superb season. Definitely should be at least in the MVP conversation (though almost certainly won't win it).
McDavid leads the NHL with 91 points.
I then started thinking about past seasons, and my mind turned to Gretzky. Here are his scoring totals from 1980-1987:
1980-81: 55 g, 109 a, 164 points
1981-82: 92 g, 120 a, 212 points
1982-83: 71 g, 125 a, 196 points
1983-84: 87 g, 118 a, 205 points
1984-85: 73 g, 135 a, 208 points
1985-86: 52 g, 163 a, 215 points
1986-87: 62 g, 121 a, 183 points
I mean.... those numbers are... mind-boggling. Was Gretzky THAT much better? Or was the scoring environment THAT much different?
This season, teams are averaging 2.75 goals per game. In 1980-81, teams averaged 3.84 goals per game. That's a huge difference. 3.84 goals = 139.6% of 2.75.
Crosby has 42 goals, leading the NHL this year. Let's say he gets 3 more to end with 45. 139.6% of 45 (to account for the difference in goals per game) = 63 goals. Gretzky scored *92* in 1981-82. He scored 87 in 1983-84. Those numbers are SO far above what the leaders should have been (even if you give, say, Crosby every goal that makes up the difference between today's scoring environment and when Gretzky was in his prime).
Take Gretzky's 1981-82 goals scored (92) versus a supposed 45 goals from Crosby this season. 92 = 204.4% of 45.
If you put that into perspective, imagine a major league leader hitting 204.4% of the homers another year's leader did. So take Jim Rice's 46 homers in 1978. 204.4% of 46 = 94 homers.
Or take Porcello's 22 wins in 2016. 204.4% of 22 = 45 wins.
It's CRAZY how many goals Gretzky scored.
Now, I just started watching hockey in 1979-80, and very sporadically in the beginning. So it's hard for me to remember just how good Gretzky was.
Can some of you who recall him playing give me some perspective? Is this just a matter of the game changing, or was Gretzky REALLY just THAT much better?
*Just for fun, here are the goal scoring leaders in 1981-82:
- Gretzky: 92
- Bossy: 64
- Maruk: 60
- Ciccarelli: 55
- Vaive: 54
So yeah, maybe he WAS really that much better. I guess I'd just like some people who remember him clearly giving me some perspective from what you *saw*, not just what the numbers say. Because these numbers are totally mind-boggling. They're like Bonds, circa 2000-2004.
Was looking at Marchand's stats and obviously he's having a tremendous year. 38 goals, 45 assists, 83 points. Superb season. Definitely should be at least in the MVP conversation (though almost certainly won't win it).
McDavid leads the NHL with 91 points.
I then started thinking about past seasons, and my mind turned to Gretzky. Here are his scoring totals from 1980-1987:
1980-81: 55 g, 109 a, 164 points
1981-82: 92 g, 120 a, 212 points
1982-83: 71 g, 125 a, 196 points
1983-84: 87 g, 118 a, 205 points
1984-85: 73 g, 135 a, 208 points
1985-86: 52 g, 163 a, 215 points
1986-87: 62 g, 121 a, 183 points
I mean.... those numbers are... mind-boggling. Was Gretzky THAT much better? Or was the scoring environment THAT much different?
This season, teams are averaging 2.75 goals per game. In 1980-81, teams averaged 3.84 goals per game. That's a huge difference. 3.84 goals = 139.6% of 2.75.
Crosby has 42 goals, leading the NHL this year. Let's say he gets 3 more to end with 45. 139.6% of 45 (to account for the difference in goals per game) = 63 goals. Gretzky scored *92* in 1981-82. He scored 87 in 1983-84. Those numbers are SO far above what the leaders should have been (even if you give, say, Crosby every goal that makes up the difference between today's scoring environment and when Gretzky was in his prime).
Take Gretzky's 1981-82 goals scored (92) versus a supposed 45 goals from Crosby this season. 92 = 204.4% of 45.
If you put that into perspective, imagine a major league leader hitting 204.4% of the homers another year's leader did. So take Jim Rice's 46 homers in 1978. 204.4% of 46 = 94 homers.
Or take Porcello's 22 wins in 2016. 204.4% of 22 = 45 wins.
It's CRAZY how many goals Gretzky scored.
Now, I just started watching hockey in 1979-80, and very sporadically in the beginning. So it's hard for me to remember just how good Gretzky was.
Can some of you who recall him playing give me some perspective? Is this just a matter of the game changing, or was Gretzky REALLY just THAT much better?
*Just for fun, here are the goal scoring leaders in 1981-82:
- Gretzky: 92
- Bossy: 64
- Maruk: 60
- Ciccarelli: 55
- Vaive: 54
So yeah, maybe he WAS really that much better. I guess I'd just like some people who remember him clearly giving me some perspective from what you *saw*, not just what the numbers say. Because these numbers are totally mind-boggling. They're like Bonds, circa 2000-2004.