NickEsasky said:Punishing the result more than the act IMO. If Orpik gets up, this is a 5 game suspension.
If Orpik gets up, it's a 2 minute minor for roughing IMO.NickEsasky said:Punishing the result more than the act IMO. If Orpik gets up, this is a 5 game suspension.
I agree that Thornton should have gotten maybe 12 games max. Since Neal got 5 games, Thornton should have gotten 10 games. To clear up one point technically, Cooke's hit on Savard was not a "career ender." Savard did come back to play again. I am in no way defending Cooke or his actions but it bothers me that everybody refers to his hit on Savard as a career ender". By his own admission Savard suffered numerous undiagnosed concussions early in his career and kept playing. The cumlative effect could have played a role in Savard's retirement. Anyway sorry for the digression.Hoplite said:First of all, what Thornton did was incredibly stupid. But I think everyone knows that. I agree that if Orpik gets up, it's a two minute minor for roughing. Nothing Thornton did looked all that vicious until you saw the aftermath. I also agree that the aftermath should not determine suspension lengths. But it goes beyond that. There's no consistency in these suspensions, even when you consider the aftermath. Cook wasn't even suspended for his career ending elbow to the side of Savard's head. And Cook got a running start at Savard.
richgedman'sghost said:I agree that Thornton should have gotten maybe 12 games max. Since Neal got 5 games, Thornton should have gotten 10 games. To clear up one point technically, Cooke's hit on Savard was not a "career ender." Savard did come back to play again. I am in no way defending Cooke or his actions but it bothers me that everybody refers to his hit on Savard as a career ender". By his own admission Savard suffered numerous undiagnosed concussions early in his career and kept playing. The cumlative effect could have played a role in Savard's retirement. Anyway sorry for the digression.
PedroSpecialK said:If Orpik gets up, it's a 2 minute minor for roughing IMO.
Given the results, I would've been fine with 5-7 more games for Thornton than Neal. Neal getting only 5 games by virtue of an arbitrary 18 month repeat offender window sticks in my craw a lot more than this decision - I was expecting anything up to 20 games.
TheShynessClinic said:Yet Ray Emery got nothing for assaulting Holtby.
Salem's Lot said:So if Marchand had concussed Crosby and Engelland did the exact same thing that Thornton did, would he have gotten 15 games? I think we all know the answer to that. Blatant example of a league favoring one team over another. It's NBAesque.
John Scott did it and got 7. So . . .Duende Roomer said:Cooke was "pre." If he did it today he'd be gone for 40+.
Noted? By whom?!!Duende Roomer said:Yeah, it was noted right-wing radio nut-bag Jay Severino himself
I dunno. There's not a lot of comparable examples because players usually don't freak out and break generally accepted standards of decency like Thornton did.Salem's Lot said:So if Marchand had concussed Crosby and Engelland did the exact same thing that Thornton did, would he have gotten 15 games? I think we all know the answer to that. Blatant example of a league favoring one team over another. It's NBAesque.
Salem's Lot said:So if Marchand had concussed Crosby and Engelland did the exact same thing that Thornton did, would he have gotten 15 games? I think we all know the answer to that. Blatant example of a league favoring one team over another. It's NBAesque.
Toe Nash said:I dunno. There's not a lot of comparable examples because players usually don't freak out and break generally accepted standards of decency like Thornton did.
Are you guys serious that it would just be a roughing if the same thing happened but Orpik didn't get hurt? That's the thinking now? I seem to remember people on here calling for suspensions when Scott Walker sucker-punched Ward (who was not going to fight but was looking right at him, instead of having his back turned). How is this different?
Myt1 said:I don't think that requires a tinfoil hat. I think there's a less nefarious explanation in play as well, though. Orpik's already missing whatever games he would have been suspended for. I think that probably played a role.
I'm not saying they were consistent. But, to the extent that Orpik deserved to miss games because of his hit, that's happening. IMHO, a recognition that Orpik's play was dirty and worthy of discipline would have actually strengthened the NHL's point. "Yes, this was dirty. But you don't get to take discipline into your own hands in this way; we'd have suspended him after the game."BucketOBalls said:
That's a odd way of looking at it. It shouldn't really cancel out like that.
If your gonna punish the act, punish the act.
If your gonna punish the result, punish the result.
Just pick one and be consistent. Heck, they did it both ways in that game.
TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle said:
edit: and Myt1 already responded. I missed a little bit of nuance re: "has been punished enough", I see. They could have suspended him longer than the expected injury time, of course.
I think we can all agree on this.Greg29fan said:it's the league being stupid.
Myt1 said:
Sure. Having a concussion really sucks, though, too.
Couldn't agree with you more here. What was the disincentive for Ron Rolston/Terry Pegula to have John Scott sit 7 games without pay?Greg29fan said:Also, start holding the franchises responsible...fines or suspensions to coaches/gm's.
I would agree that we shouldn't be trying to lessen what Thornton did what Orpik did was borderline or because if Orpik doesn't get knocked out Thornton probably gets 5 and a game plus a 2 or 3 game suspensions. He should have gotten a suspension regardless of whether Orpik gets knocked out. It was a scumbag move from a previously classy guy.Greg29fan said:I've never defended the Penguins for dirty hits to the lengths some people have gone to not excuse, but at least to lessen what Thornton did, and most times I've argued they should get longer suspensions then they actually receive, first time offender or multiple-time offender. Neal's knee should have gotten him 15 games at least, and I said that in the game thread when it happened. Engelland should be gone for a long time. It's not the league favoring Pittsburgh; it's the league being stupid.
None of these acts have any place in the game. Player safety is a joke. 2-5 game suspensions have no impact whatsoever. Start adding a 1 or a 2 before the 2 or the 5 or a 0 after and you'll have a much better game.
Also, start holding the franchises responsible...fines or suspensions to coaches/gm's.
TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle said:Fines for coaches or GMs are ok but probably not enough of a deterrent; losing a roster spot for the length of the suspension for teams that qualify as repeat offenders, perhaps define repeat offenders as teams with multiple suspensions in 1 season or x number of suspensions over x numbers of seasons, would be better.
Walker was kicked out of the game. I was reading the earlier posts as saying that Thornton would only get a roughing if Orpik had gotten up, which I think is insane.veritas said:
Scott Walker didn't get suspended, that's the point. I don't think most people think 15 games is unfair by itself. The problem is the NHL turns a blind eye to sucker punches and jumping guys, until it ends with a guy on a stretcher which is terrible for their image. They're wildly inconsistent. Zero games for Emery and Rinaldo are two recent examples.
I'd even be fine with more than 15 games, if the NHL also punished other egregious acts more severely as well.
Walker was only kicked out of the game because there was 2:47 left and he got a fighting major with an instigator. Had there been more time in the game, he would have served his time and been out of the box.Toe Nash said:
Walker was kicked out of the game. I was reading the earlier posts as saying that Thornton would only get a roughing if Orpik had gotten up, which I think is insane.
What happens afterwards is a different story but the refs seem to be pretty consistent in at least these two situations.
I hate the quote function but PSK wrote:
If Orpik gets up, it's a 2 minute minor for roughing IMO.