A team that I think would be interested in Marcus is GSW. Don't see a direct trade fit (they basically only have Wiseman as a tradeable player) but if Marcus goes, they might be a team to keep an eye on.
Marcus and TL for Wiseman.A team that I think would be interested in Marcus is GSW. Don't see a direct trade fit (they basically only have Wiseman as a tradeable player) but if Marcus goes, they might be a team to keep an eye on.
Actually, this is Oubre's last year of his contract, so he becomes a FA after the season, it appears. So not a trade candidate anyway.Kelly Oubre as a return for Marcus Smart is hilarious. I don't think Boston should trade Smart unless there is a compelling chemistry reason to do so but if they do, please let it be for Oubre since the Celtics aren't likely to get real value for him. If Smart drives you nuts, watch Oubre play hoops for a few minutes...
I assumed you were considering a S&T. I actually am rooting for this exact deal to happen. This forum would absolutely love an Oubre for Smart swap - the content would be off the charts.Actually, this is Oubre's last year of his contract, so he becomes a FA after the season, it appears. So not a trade candidate anyway.
Well, to me the key piece would be Wiseman, not Oubre. But YMMV.I assumed you were considering a S&T. I actually am rooting for this exact deal to happen. This forum would absolutely love an Oubre for Smart swap - the content would be off the charts.
Correct and either way it doesn’t matter what contract filler we take back. The entire point on our end is to get a raw yet high upside guy in Wiseman.Actually, this is Oubre's last year of his contract, so he becomes a FA after the season, it appears. So not a trade candidate anyway.
Agreed.Correct and either way it doesn’t matter what contract filler we take back. The entire point on our end is to get a raw yet high upside guy in Wiseman.
I know what you meant. Wiseman would provide great content too. It would be like morphing all of the commentary on TimeLord, Grant Williams, Langford, Nesmith and multiple big lineups into one thread. Wiseman is very raw and there are more than a few Warrior fans concerned about his development. My view is that they, like many people here, underestimate the NBA adjustment period, especially for bigs. I don't see the Warriors moving on from him yet, especially for that package which does nothing for their front court depth and nothing for their spacing (they are pretty good defensively based on the metrics but we all know those can be discounted). It feels like a Wiseman thread arc here would look something like this:Well, to me the key piece would be Wiseman, not Oubre. But YMMV.
Sure, except it does matter if that filler is a sign and trade because we’d then be hard capped. That, in turn, would foreclose adding any additional talent (more or less), including keeping Fournier, using the taxpayer MLE, or using the rest of the Hayward TPE.Correct and either way it doesn’t matter what contract filler we take back. The entire point on our end is to get a raw yet high upside guy in Wiseman.
I don’t mind that as Wiseman’s long term potential wild surely justify passing on JAG’s and paying Fournier 4/$100m+ isn’t on my summer wishlist.Sure, except it does matter if that filler is a sign and trade because we’d then be hard capped. That, in turn, would foreclose adding any additional talent (more or less), including keeping Fournier, using the taxpayer MLE, or using the rest of the Hayward TPE.
Please, no trading veterans for raw high upside kids.Correct and either way it doesn’t matter what contract filler we take back. The entire point on our end is to get a raw yet high upside guy in Wiseman.
Wiseman isn’t just any kid. He’s a higher upside version of TL so we wouldn’t be adding youth only replacing it with a much better version.Please, no trading veterans for raw high upside kids.
Got plenty of kids here.
It's time to add veterans to the mix.
Right, at the expense of Fournier, Smart, and an MLE-level player. That might not be adding youth, but it is subtracting established talent.Wiseman isn’t just any kid. He’s a higher upside version of TL so we wouldn’t be adding youth only replacing it with a much better version.
He's a kid that won't help you next year nearly as much as Smart/Williams does.Wiseman isn’t just any kid. He’s a higher upside version of TL so we wouldn’t be adding youth only replacing it with a much better version.
Fournier is a FA who is going to get paid a ton of money. This trade would also protect Ainge from himself. I’m not really worried about a non-impact bench veteran if it resulted in us acquiring Wiseman.Right, at the expense of Fournier, Smart, and an MLE-level player. That might not be adding youth, but it is subtracting established talent.
I’d bet against him getting paid a ton of money. He was just traded for two second round picks, which means no one really thought he was worth much of anything on his current deal. He’s an established vet who has no upside and isn’t good enough to be a building block. He’s a useful player, and he’s worth more than the full MLE, but he isn’t worth 20/year and he has no real upside to convince someone to pay him more than his production merits. That could be wrong. Every year there are a few surprising overpays, but he is the type of vet that normally ends up extracting a comfortably above MLE deal to stay put because his currently over the cap team cannot risk saying no even though no under the cap team is likely to actually pay him more than the full MLE.Fournier is a FA who is going to get paid a ton of money. This trade would also protect Ainge from himself. I’m not really worried about a non-impact bench veteran if it resulted in us acquiring Wiseman.
NG didn't get moved because no team that needed a player like him had the cap space or a spare contract to match his salary other than BOS. During the offseason, I could see a team or two talking themselves into him.I’d bet against him getting paid a ton of money. He was just traded for two second round picks, which means no one really thought he was worth much of anything on his current deal. He’s an established vet who has no upside and isn’t good enough to be a building block. He’s a useful player, and he’s worth more than the full MLE, but he isn’t worth 20/year and he has no real upside to convince someone to pay him more than his production merits. That could be wrong. Every year there are a few surprising overpays, but he is the type of vet that normally ends up extracting a comfortably above MLE deal to stay put because his currently over the cap team cannot risk saying no even though no under the cap team is likely to actually pay him more than the full MLE.
Yea agreed, wouldn't be shocked to see him return for 4yrs ~ $70MM. The flat cap isn't helping player wage inflation after the owners have taken it on the chin.I’d bet against him getting paid a ton of money. He was just traded for two second round picks, which means no one really thought he was worth much of anything on his current deal. He’s an established vet who has no upside and isn’t good enough to be a building block. He’s a useful player, and he’s worth more than the full MLE, but he isn’t worth 20/year and he has no real upside to convince someone to pay him more than his production merits. That could be wrong. Every year there are a few surprising overpays, but he is the type of vet that normally ends up extracting a comfortably above MLE deal to stay put because his currently over the cap team cannot risk saying no even though no under the cap team is likely to actually pay him more than the full MLE.
Danny/the team is at the stage where they need to package a 1st with some other young players to add a top 7 rotational vet. Fill out the rest of the roster (7-12) with professional vets on the cheap (see Portis, Noel, Bullock, Forbes, Howard, Ellington, Nwaba, Niang, Theis, etc)Please, no trading veterans for raw high upside kids.
Got plenty of kids here.
It's time to add veterans to the mix.
While people desperate to trade Marcus are talking about Marcus getting a 4/80+ contract, I doubt there are many GMs that eager to pay a sixth man that. And Gordon Hayward is a lot better than Never Google when he's healthy. Charlotte was gambling on Hayward ditching his bad luck and that he'd be a 20/6/4 guy for them. And on the rare occasions that he was healthy, he delivered the performance. Now we could argue the wisdom of betting on Hayward's health, but when you're the Hornets you likely take the gamble just to cease being a bottom dweller.NG didn't get moved because no team that needed a player like him had the cap space or a spare contract to match his salary other than BOS. During the offseason, I could see a team or two talking themselves into him.
In a world where GH gets $30M a year and we're talking about Marcus Smart for $20M a year, one would think NG could get some team to offer him $20M a year for a couple of years.
I’m getting here as well. The Celtics roster has certainly had atrocious luck with injuries, but that has somewhat masked the fact they haven’t been built to win.Danny/the team is at the stage where they need to package a 1st with some other young players to add a top 7 rotational vet. Fill out the rest of the roster (7-12) with professional vets on the cheap (see Portis, Noel, Bullock, Forbes, Howard, Ellington, Nwaba, Niang, Theis, etc)
Use the 2nd round to draft an upperclassman that can contribute at the end of the bench or euro stash. No more kids that Brad will have zero confidence in playing.
I think the objective to trading Smart is to find a player who is a better fit. If that player happens to be younger, you do it. Chances are that player isn't available and if he is, will cost a lot more than Marcus Smart.If the objective is to win basketball games now and worry about the future down the road - and that is where the Celtics should be right now imo - trading Marcus Smart for picks and or young talent is counter to that. James Wiseman or even some upperclassman is highly unlikely to help you win now or even in two years. If the objective is to get Marcus Smart off the Celtics so we don't have to suffer all of his flaws anymore, that is a different story.
Edit: this says nothing about the hypothetical trade which really has no fit for Golden State. Unfortunately, their needs going forward are similar to the Celtics.
Right. It's James Wiseman. It's not Darius Bazley. We aren't getting Wiseman for Smart and TL anyway.You can't think of a Marcus trade in a vacuum either. The point of a Marcus trade is about where you can add talent at what long-term price, and where you have playing time.
Marcus to me is an okay but not great fit who is about to be due for a raise.
Trading Marcus for a young player with more upside isn't necessarily counter to winning now, if that player is at a position of need and you backfill Marcus using other means.
A young big is a need... if you can fill that longish term with Marcus, well you have a lot of guys that can already fill some of his minutes, and you have ways to get more. It's not clear there is a way to get a long-term big outside of a trade.
True. I think the thought process is important though. That's the kind of deal we should be looking for... Smart for a rookie contract 5 or 4, re-sign Fournier, then backfilling that spot with a combination of guys we have on the roster and somebody we can get for the remainder of the MLE, or TT plus.Right. It's James Wiseman. It's not Darius Bazley. We aren't getting Wiseman for Smart and TL anyway.
Yeah. I keep mentioning Huerter. The Hawks had interest in Smart and Huerter is an RFA after next year. The Hawks can also trade Huerter straight up for Smart so it saves the C's 10 mil in the process.True. I think the thought process is important though. That's the kind of deal we should be looking for... Smart for a rookie contract 5 or 4, re-sign Fournier, then backfilling that spot with a combination of guys we have on the roster and somebody we can get for the remainder of the MLE, or TT plus.
That's creative but it seems like a lateral move.sell Sacramento on Smart + TT vet leadership/defense for
Wright + Holmes (S&T)
fill a pick in around it
I think it's an obvious backwards move because it means you also can't sign Fournier likely if you hard-cap yourself.That's creative but it seems like a lateral move.
I'm not even this extreme.Danny/the team is at the stage where they need to package a 1st with some other young players to add a top 7 rotational vet. Fill out the rest of the roster (7-12) with professional vets on the cheap (see Portis, Noel, Bullock, Forbes, Howard, Ellington, Nwaba, Niang, Theis, etc)
Use the 2nd round to draft an upperclassman that can contribute at the end of the bench or euro stash. No more kids that Brad will have zero confidence in playing.
Assuming the Celtics re-sign Fournier, and/or no team miraculously takes Kemba without tucking Boston with another onerous contract back, almost no chance the Celtics can take back an expensive guy in sign-and-trade.sell Sacramento on Smart + TT vet leadership/defense for
Wright + Holmes (S&T)
fill a pick in around it
A couple weeks of watching Holmes every night and Celtics fans will want to throw him into the Charles with a weighted vest wrapped around him.That's creative but it seems like a lateral move.
Kinda hoping they don't trade their 1st round pick so they can draft their 3rd string center. I also don't think the pick will have much value and that there are too many players that need development... but 3rd big is the spot to do it.I'm not even this extreme.
Just add one quality guy using their 1st round pick and make the team take Carsen Edwards, maybe Larry Nance?
Add a cheap vet to take Semis spot, sign a minimum 3rd string center to take Kornets spot, or Kornet himself if they can't do better.
3rd string Centers play real minutes (especially with TL). They can pick up vet 5s on the cheap, I listed a half dozen a month agoKinda hoping they don't trade their 1st round pick so they can draft their 3rd string center. I also don't think the pick will have much value and that there are too many players that need development... but 3rd big is the spot to do it.
TL is now more of a sure thing when he plays so if the C's go into 2021 with AN, RL, 1st to develop, PP, they are fine. That requires moving on from Carsen Edwards and Grant Williams.
I used to be a fan but yeah. I'm not sure I'd want him on anything longer than a 1 year deal and he's not really the guy to pair up with TL. He misses a bunch of games too.A couple weeks of watching Holmes every night and Celtics fans will want to throw him into the Charles with a weighted vest wrapped around him.
yeah, it's more long term. I'm not a draftnik but there are usually lengthy, athletic bigs with upside to be drafted after the lottery. TL was one. I'd only want them to take that player if he were BPA though and chances of that happening are slim.3rd string Centers play real minutes (especially with TL). They can pick up vet 5s on the cheap, I listed a half dozen a month ago
It's not about carrying another mid-first round pick on next years roster.yeah, it's more long term. I'm not a draftnik but there are usually lengthy, athletic bigs with upside to be drafted after the lottery. TL was one. I'd only want them to take that player if he were BPA though and chances of that happening are slim.
I think it's fine to carry 4 guys to develop on a team with NBA title hopes. Roster sizes are 15, they used to be 12. Most teams would have their 1st rounder and sometimes 2nd rounders in their lineup. Carrying more than 4 becomes an issue.
What kind of vet can you really get with the 16th pick tho? It is one of their only assets so I get that. It's why this thread exist, as Smart is another.It's not about carrying another mid-first round pick on next years roster.
Of course they'd have space to do it.
I think they desperately need another solid veteran player. I don't think they can get one with the taxpayer MLE. So they need to trade for one. If they won't put their first round pick(or Nesmith) on the table, I don't think they can get one without opening up another hole elsewhere.
Gotta give something up if you want a decent guy.
really? every time I watch Holmes he's active and getting better every season.A couple weeks of watching Holmes every night and Celtics fans will want to throw him into the Charles with a weighted vest wrapped around him.
Don't know.What kind of vet can you really get with the 16th pick tho? It is one of their only assets so I get that. It's why this thread exist, as Smart is another.
Nesmith is suddenly now too.
Without hammering him too badly......he can’t defend a PnR to save his life, is a fouling machine, doesn’t protect the rim at his position, and his awareness/passing ability rivals that of a young JaVale McGee. Aside from that I’m a big fan of this player.really? every time I watch Holmes he's active and getting better every season.
S&T is probably out of the question anyway since Kemba is sticking and they'll be over the apron
so you don't think he'll get more than the MLE in free agency?Without hammering him too badly......he can’t defend a PnR to save his life, is a fouling machine, doesn’t protect the rim at his position, and his awareness/passing ability rivals that of a young JaVale McGee. Aside from that I’m a big fan of this player.
I think he’ll end up back in Sacramento as they can start him at $11m and the only teams with cap space that I feel would offer him more would be Dallas, bc Cuban loves cutting checks to bigs and he’d be a good fit next to Porzingis, or Charlotte simply bc they have space and don’t need any more guards or wings.so you don't think he'll get more than the MLE in free agency?