I mean, it has to be a historically-bad start to the season for him. Can’t imagine there have been many worse months in NBA history based on volume and percentage. Again, not a huge deal as long as the volume is in the 7-8 shots range. It’s those 3-15 games that simply cannot happen. There are simply far too many better options on this team to allow Smart to shoot more than 10 shots.Down to 26.5% for the season after going 1-7 (all 3 pointers).
On November 6 he went 2 for 5 vs. Atlanta. And it was his 2nd best game of the season in terms of FG%.
I'm getting very frustrated with Brad wrt Smart. Over half these shots should be immediately benchable offenses, and he's had a way quicker hook for mistakes from guys like Jaylen in the past.I mean, it has to be a historically-bad start to the season for him. Can’t imagine there have been many worse months in NBA history based on volume and percentage. Again, not a huge deal as long as the volume is in the 7-8 shots range. It’s those 3-15 games that simply cannot happen. There are simply far too many better options on this team to allow Smart to shoot more than 10 shots.
1 for 7 from the field and ALL of them were 3pt shots tonight, clearly, it isn't that "simple".+1
Its simple, Smart needs to dribble drive to the hoop instead of settling for jumpers. This would lead to:
(1) getting a layup if no one stops him OR
(2) a defender trying to stop him, Marcus scoring a contested layup, drawing a foul, or missing a close-range shot which leads to Marcus bullying his way for an off. rebound OR
(3) drawing two defenders which leads to a kick out 3-pointer or an assist to a cutting teammate
More than 5 shots?There are simply far too many better options on this team to allow Smart to shoot more than 10 shots.
If Stevens was aggressively benching Smart after bad shots, what do you think the Celtics record would be?I'm getting very frustrated with Brad wrt Smart. Over half these shots should be immediately benchable offenses, and he's had a way quicker hook for mistakes from guys like Jaylen in the past.
I'm not sure this is right.I agree. Smart is not a starter, and with a very capable Rozier on the team as a backup PG as well, I don't really see Smart as a must-sign player, even with all of the things he does. If you can sign him on a good deal, then sure, but handing out big contracts to mid-level talent is how you end up with a crap NBA team.
I think this is basically right. I think the lion's share of their improvement over the next year or two is going to come from Hayward's return and growth from Brown and Tatum.I'm not sure this is right.
The Celtics have $100mm committed to 2019 with Horford, Irving, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, and Yabusele. The cap is currently $99mm. Even if they opt to not sign Smart to big cash, they won't have much room to bring in someone better, even if the cap rises a bit.
I'm not sure you can get better options then what you're looking at with the current roster. The plan was confusing prior to this past off-season, now it's pretty simple:
Extend the guys here and go over the salary cap with them, use the MLE on someone useful, pray we get another franchise player in one of the next two drafts, hope Tatum/Brown/draft pick develop with Kyrie. That's it. I like it just as much as any other plan we could have hoped for.
Shooters got to shoot.1 for 7 from the field and ALL of them were 3pt shots tonight, clearly, it isn't that "simple".
Smart is 2nd on the team in 3PA for the season and every starter + Rozier are much better shooters than Smart. It's really hard to criticize Brad, but Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala are pedestrian 3pt shooters and Kerr limits their attempts relative to Durant, Steph, Klay and Nick Young. The Warriors, who play in more blowouts and would be more liberal with shot selection, let Dray launch 10% of their team attempts and AI 5% while Smart launches more than 15% of the Celtics attempts.
Smart is and has always been a horrific 3pt shooter, they need to squeeze more efficiency out of Marcus on the offensive end. Maybe explain to him that he is hurting the team and his free agency value launching so many 3 pointers and act more like AI and Dray.
Obviously it would be worse in the short term for a game or two, but you don't think Marcus would get the idea quickly? He's clearly a smart enough guy, no pun intended.If Stevens was aggressively benching Smart after bad shots, what do you think the Celtics record would be?
Maybe Brad wanted him to try to shoot his way out of this in a game like yesterday's?Shooters got to shoot.
One thing about Marcus last night: early in the game he passed up on a couple of looks I thought he'd ordinarily take and didn't start bombing away until the game was out of reach.
Here's some stats on his shooting: http://celtics247.com/2017/11/marcus-smart-shooting-stats-breakdown/. They really speak for themselves but it's notable how few easy shots he is getting.
Well from a macro POV, the entire season has kind of been like last night's game.Maybe Brad wanted him to try to shoot his way out of this in a game like yesterday's?
Agree, don't care much about garbage time, although the Celtics have played a lot of tight games lately so it was nice to get a breather.The game was over by halftime. Smart had taken 1 shot. I really could care less what happens when it's a 20-25 point game for the last 2 quarters. 5 of his 7 shots were in the 4th quarter.
If he's not going to magically shoot better then last night was EXACTLY what you should want from him.
If you look up Ximo Pierto on YouTube they post a 9-10 minute highlight package of every NBA game within a couple hours of the games ending.Yeah, but too much time involved. With baseball it's easy to do something else while following the game. And watching the Bruins take a chunk of my time.
This.Well from a macro POV, the entire season has kind of been like last night's game.
I mean the Cs are 17-1 over their last 18 games. I'd probably be more concerned if MS were passing up open looks than if he's missing them.
I would think someone in the organization has done a video study of his form compared to preseason. Wish I could see that; I'm surprised no one on the internet has done it yet.
I had this thought as well, and at first it seemed crazy to think they might be playing the long game and depressing his value by letting him jack shots.I hope they can retain Smart because I think his horrible shooting obscures his real value.
That usually applies to say, a guy who has no arm or can’t hit lefties, situations that have an easy remedy (DH/1B, platoon). It’s a lot harder to hide a guard who is literally the worst shooter ever (or very close to that).This is a classic "Bill James" situation. It's easy to focus on what a guy can't do---and unfortunately marcus just can't shoot. He's worse at it than the historical comps (Artest, etc.) and he's worse than anyone else who might shoot it for this team. But there's so many good things he does, we need to remember those two and not talk about 'benching him' for what he can't do---because the next guy will have more gaps than Smart does (defense, rebounding, intensity, ballhandling, passing, toughness...)
We got a good look at that last night when Rozier had a good shooting game.Of course we have no idea how the team would be with another guard that can shoot.
He's up to a respectable .355 from 3 this year. I think Rozier would be fine if he just limited himself to taking threes. He isn't the answer though.We got a good look at that last night when Rozier had a good shooting game.
I'd suggest that If Marcus played with Durant, Curry and Klay as Draymond and AI do, he'd shoot less as well.Agree, don't care much about garbage time, although the Celtics have played a lot of tight games lately so it was nice to get a breather.
Question: if Smart shot 2 for 5 from 3pt line in the 4th Quarter last night would the Celtics be better off going forward? IMHO The sooner that Smart understands there are much better options on the Celtics offense than his 3PAs, the better the Celtics will be.
His 3 pre-season games were a classic SSS hot streak, driven by launching tons of 3s for a couple months straight this summer. Admittedly, I wishfully drank the kool-aid of the "new ME" Marcus. Unfortunately, the season doesn't work like that, where he can just focus on launching 3s in practice for a month straight. Bad ankles and all, he is a historically bad shooter and that isn't changing, that's who he is. It's a small adjustment, 2-3 less 3PA/game, no hesitation needed Marcus' needs to just drive/draw/dish OR rotate the ball to the better shooters.
I'm not suggesting they play Smart less or Brad bench him. He is value added, bad shooting and all.
Just someone please explain to Marcus that Andre Iguodala and Draymond Green are examples of terrific players (and decent shooters) that shoot fewer 3-pointers than their top 4 shooters. If Marcus can cut back the 3PA it would increase his and the teams offensive efficiency and lead to a bigger payday.
Would it kill him to wait another 10 seconds or so before jacking it up while playing with a lead in the fourth quarter, though?I'd suggest that If Marcus played with Durant, Curry and Klay as Draymond and AI do, he'd shoot less as well.
Marcus is putting up 5.7 three point attempts per 36 minutes this year, but it's 7.1 per 36 minutes without Kyrie on the floor and 3.9 per 36 with Kyrie on the floor.
Draymond is at 3.8 three attempts per 36 minutes in all situations, but only 1 attempt per 36 with the big three on the floor and 4.9 per 36 with only two of them on the floor.
I think Marcus shoots them so often because when Kyrie is off the floor, he's mostly surrounded by guys who are catch and shoot guys from three. And with Kyrie off the floor, those open opportunities and much harder to come by since he's the guy usually setting those up after driving to the basket and passing out.
I don't know, he's taken a total of 13 three point attempts with more than 7 seconds on the shot clock in the fourth quarter all season.Would it kill him to wait another 10 seconds or so before jacking it up while playing with a lead in the fourth quarter, though?
Nice rhetorical question, considering the Celtics have only lost 3 games and trailed in the 4th quarter in all of them. But I digress it's not about wins and losses with Marcus, he is clearly a winner. No one is questioning that.I don't know, he's taken a total of 13 three point attempts with more than 7 seconds on the shot clock in the fourth quarter all season.
Has he made the Celtics blow a bunch of fourth quarter leads this year or something?
No, that's not true at all. James' point was that we focus on guys gaps---I think one of the specific examples was Matt Stairs, who didn't look like a player and had no range in the field. But could really hit. That's pretty much Smart, just in reverse.That usually applies to say, a guy who has no arm or can’t hit lefties, situations that have an easy remedy (DH/1B, platoon). It’s a lot harder to hide a guard who is literally the worst shooter ever (or very close to that).
He's clearly a positive impact player in the regular season. The only question is whether playoff preparation by other teams will render him unplayable. I'm decently optimistic here, given that Iggy can stay on the floor, and also because Marcus has a lot more playmaking ability than Tony Allen types. But it's still a very real concern--not a slam-dunk "he's great!" at all.I hate watching him shoot and agree scheming/coaching to reduce him doing it is wise. But there's literally no way someone can both be knowledgeable about winning NBA games and want Smart benched, either. You either are not the first, or you don't want the second---aesthetics notwithstanding.
In basketball the way the NBA is played today where all 5 players must work as a unit continuity is pretty important and over a long season you have the opportunity to build a second "team" to work best together in this environment. It also allows your first and best team more time on the floor together to match up against your opponent who is attempting to take advantage of these same edges.Can someone explain to me why there has to be "a second unit"? If they staggered substitutions so that a couple of starters were on the court at all times, it seems like this would be less of an issue.
I will hang up and listen.
I think this is a misdiagnosis. I think a lot of his excessive 3 attempts happen because the bench unit is subpar offensively and because Smart can't create high percentage shots for himself. That is, a lot of his bombing away from 3 is a symptom of a problem rather than being the whole problem. The solution is to improve the bench unit, either by adding a player or by getting more out of the guys who are here - including Smart, but also the other subs.IMHO The sooner that Smart understands there are much better options on the Celtics offense than his 3PAs, the better the Celtics will be.
I don't think there's any "long game" going on here, it just kind of is what it is.I had this thought as well, and at first it seemed crazy to think they might be playing the long game and depressing his value by letting him jack shots.
They do stagger minutes, actually. Tatum and (lately) Morris start but come out of the game early. The Celtics tend to play lineups with Kyrie and Brown and bench guys late in the first quarter and then lineups with Tatum and Morris and bench guys early in the second.Can someone explain to me why there has to be "a second unit"? If they staggered substitutions so that a couple of starters were on the court at all times, it seems like this would be less of an issue.
I don't see a whole lot of reason to think Smart's defense won't hold up in the playoffs.He's clearly a positive impact player in the regular season. The only question is whether playoff preparation by other teams will render him unplayable. I'm decently optimistic here, given that Iggy can stay on the floor, and also because Marcus has a lot more playmaking ability than Tony Allen types. But it's still a very real concern--not a slam-dunk "he's great!" at all.
The issue is not his defense. Teams don't make major changes to their defensive schemes during the 82 to exploit the deficiencies of a flawed player like Smart. A playoff series is a different animal. A player whose offensive/defensive shortcomings are outweighed by their positive contributions on the other end, can be turned into a substantial net negative when the opponent's game plan exploits that shortcoming again and again and again. Tony Allen against GSW and Enes "can't play him" Kanter are extreme examples, but the concern is present with Smart too. I agree with lovegtm that Smart's playmaking and streak shooting probably allow him to stay on the floor, but its definitely a consideration when the Celts are contemplating his next contract.I don't see a whole lot of reason to think Smart's defense won't hold up in the playoffs.
As swedgin said, this is about offense, not defense. We got a preview of how this could look in the Dallas game, because Carlisle is one of the few coaches who WILL make big optimizations for a regular season game. The Mavs basically dared Smart to shoot and clogged up the rest of the offense.I don't see a whole lot of reason to think Smart's defense won't hold up in the playoffs.
When Smart is running the P&R, teams should never fight over the screen, or switch, or even really hedge. Simply go under the screen and make Smart hit three pointers. If you lose a game with him going off from three, you can live with it. He's such a good passer that you want to take that option away from him. Make him do what he's worst at - which is shooting. But since he can't seem to resist shooting, going under is the best percentage play for the defense.As swedgin said, this is about offense, not defense. We got a preview of how this could look in the Dallas game, because Carlisle is one of the few coaches who WILL make big optimizations for a regular season game. The Mavs basically dared Smart to shoot and clogged up the rest of the offense.
Now, to be fair, Marcus was able to make a lot of. impact plays down the stretch in that game, because his offensive game is a lot more versatile than other guys who get ignored, like Roberson or Tony Allen. This is what makes me a bit optimistic for the playoffs, but it's a very very real issue that hasn't been settled yet.
Which NBA teams are unable to figure out that Marcus Smart is a bad shooter and that going under screens against bad shooters is a good idea during the regular season but will get the point in the playoffs?When Smart is running the P&R, teams should never fight over the screen, or switch, or even really hedge. Simply go under the screen and make Smart hit three pointers. If you lose a game with him going off from three, you can live with it. He's such a good passer that you want to take that option away from him. Make him do what he's worst at - which is shooting. But since he can't seem to resist shooting, going under is the best percentage play for the defense.
Yes, I agree as to playoffs, that's fair. Many comments here are about regular season and those are, imo, silly.He's clearly a positive impact player in the regular season. The only question is whether playoff preparation by other teams will render him unplayable. I'm decently optimistic here, given that Iggy can stay on the floor, and also because Marcus has a lot more playmaking ability than Tony Allen types. But it's still a very real concern--not a slam-dunk "he's great!" at all.
Fair enough, other guys on the bench have shot 3-pointers poorly (Semi, Theis, Larkin). Rozier has been league average this year.The mistake being made here is the assumption that Smart's poor shooting is a cause of the second unit's offensive struggles rather than a consequence of those struggles.
It is a similar type of error to the whole "IT can't score in the playoffs" nonsense - which, in effect, blamed IT for the offensive failings of the rest of the lineup.
I think that when the Celtics’ second unit offense fails (as a group) on a possession, Smart usually ends up heaving a bad 3. He has a hand in those failures, but so do the others on the court.Fair enough, other guys on the bench have shot 3-pointers poorly (Semi, Theis, Larkin). Rozier has been league average this year.
So they are to blame for Smart's high shot count and poor shooting?
He was well below average until going 7/10 his last 2 games. Hopefully he can keep hitting 36.5% of his 3s.Rozier has been league average this year.
It's not about figuring out, it's about adjusting your game-planning and scheme to account for one player in one regular season matchup. Lots of coaches feel that it's not worth breaking far out of base approach to take advantage of a one-time thing. Mental focus and preparation time are very very scarce resources in the regular season, and a lot of teams would rather get better at what they do well than gameplan specifically to exploit Marcus Smart.Which NBA teams are unable to figure out that Marcus Smart is a bad shooter and that going under screens against bad shooters is a good idea during the regular season but will get the point in the playoffs?
This would be a reasonable theory if it weren't for the fact that he was a positive contributor each of the last two seasons in the playoffs.The issue is not his defense. Teams don't make major changes to their defensive schemes during the 82 to exploit the deficiencies of a flawed player like Smart. A playoff series is a different animal. A player whose offensive/defensive shortcomings are outweighed by their positive contributions on the other end, can be turned into a substantial net negative when the opponent's game plan exploits that shortcoming again and again and again. Tony Allen against GSW and Enes "can't play him" Kanter are extreme examples, but the concern is present with Smart too. I agree with lovegtm that Smart's playmaking and streak shooting probably allow him to stay on the floor, but its definitely a consideration when the Celts are contemplating his next contract.
Smart has played in every playoff game that Brad Stevens has coached in. If he was that exploitable in the playoffs I think we’d know it by now.It's not about figuring out, it's about adjusting your game-planning and scheme to account for one player in one regular season matchup. Lots of coaches feel that it's not worth breaking far out of base approach to take advantage of a one-time thing. Mental focus and preparation time are very very scarce resources in the regular season, and a lot of teams would rather get better at what they do well than gameplan specifically to exploit Marcus Smart.
This isn't super-controversial or anything: it's common knowledge that teams up their game-planning and opponent optimization in the playoffs. The stakes are higher, you get more rest days, and you play the same team multiple times in a row.
As I said above though, I'm cautiously optimistic about Smart's playoff prospects.
I'd say that his bad shooting is more a liability in the playoffs--but that his overall game remains a plus.Smart has played in every playoff game that Brad Stevens has coached in. If he was that exploitable in the playoffs I think we’d know it by now.