So what's Next?
- Thread starter RedSox040713
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cshea said:
This is the biggest issue, they are about to enter the world of perennial mediocrity. They aren't going to catch the AZ or NJD of the world for a realistic shot at the lottery and they aren't going to compete for anything more than the last WC spot.
They also aren't going to go ahead with a complete rebuild because that would be career suicide.
cshea said:
This sums up why these recent events have been so awful. The McQ deal and the Rinaldo trade are barftastic on their own, the other deals I have gripes with, but I could get behind if there was a clear plan. There does not seem to be a plan, let alone a clear one.
Eddie Jurak said:
Unless they trade Bergy, Krejci, and/or Rask, the plan pretty much has to be to compete. If they were bottoming out, these guys would be gone. For the players' sakes, I hope they get traded. They shouldn't have to play for this franchise anymore.
cshea said:
The top 2 lines should be good to very good and the third line should be OK as well. The 4th line will be...
The Four Peters said:
godawful. This normally isn't a problem when those guys get 5-6 TOI per game, but it will likely be close to double that. FML.
The defense is really going to be atrocious. The numbers will probably look OK because of Clod's system, but there's little doubt in my mind that they will struggle to defend generally, and specifically against fast agile teams, and they will struggle even more to move the puck out of their end. There is no philosophy to this team anymore as Cshea pointed out. I feel defeated.
I wonder if the plan is just to get Julien guys he feels he can coach up.
I think he has done a lot for the Bruins, and I don't think he would deserve firing, but I think it's clear that there was some kind of organizational philosophy that didn't involve all three of Neely, Chia, and Claude, and therefore we have to presume that these trades are likely made with the intention of building the type of team Claude wants to coach. So maybe this year is the year that he gets all the rope, and then hangs himself if they are really terrible, and then Neely/Sweeney will get some rope with a new coach if that comes to pass, and subsequently hang themselves.
I don't think this is a reasonable explanation mind, I just don't think a reasonable explanation exists.
I think he has done a lot for the Bruins, and I don't think he would deserve firing, but I think it's clear that there was some kind of organizational philosophy that didn't involve all three of Neely, Chia, and Claude, and therefore we have to presume that these trades are likely made with the intention of building the type of team Claude wants to coach. So maybe this year is the year that he gets all the rope, and then hangs himself if they are really terrible, and then Neely/Sweeney will get some rope with a new coach if that comes to pass, and subsequently hang themselves.
I don't think this is a reasonable explanation mind, I just don't think a reasonable explanation exists.
j44thor said:
You couldn't see a scenario where Pastrnak and Spooner take another step forward and they use their cap space to acquire another top 4 defenseman? If those things happen and Chara isn't completely cooked, they could be a second round playoff team. Which is what they were most years under Chiarelli. I hate the McQuaid and Rinaldo moves and I think they took way less then full value for Hamilton, but let's not overreact here. This roster is better (as currently constituted) then the 2010 team that should have went to the conference finals. And they still have the cap space and prospects to add pieces. Let's see what the opening night roster is and how they play together before we proclaim them "perennially mediocre".
Salem's Lot said:
What makes you believe they will acquire a top 4 D that more specifically plays a transition game because as it stands they don't have anyone in that capacity. I expect Chara to be slightly better and Seids to be worse. I expect McQuaid/Miller to continue to be fungible and hurt.
Comparing this team to 2010 is silly because DET was still in the West then and TB was not in the conf either.
This team won't be last in the conf but I have a hard time seeing them close to TB/MON/DET/ and probably behind OTT/FL this coming season as well. They should be better than TOR and probably BUF but that is about it.
The good news:
- We remain strong up the middle. Krejci, Bergeron and Spooner is a really nice 1/2/3 punch at center and Rask is still a top-5 goalie
- We have at least three of the wing spots among the top six settled with Marchand, Eriksson and Pastrnak, and with a little luck, one of Connolly or Smith will fill another of those spots
- Seidenberg will be a full year removed from the surgery and therefore should take a step closer towards his former self
- Chara remains a rock on the blue line, though aging
The bad news:
- We still have massive holes on defense and minimal depth on the wings
- We've got almost 15% of the payroll tied up in either dead money (Lucic) or guys who deserve minimum level contracts (Kelly, McQuaid)
- We've got basically no prospects outside maybe Khoklachev who can help next year
- We remain strong up the middle. Krejci, Bergeron and Spooner is a really nice 1/2/3 punch at center and Rask is still a top-5 goalie
- We have at least three of the wing spots among the top six settled with Marchand, Eriksson and Pastrnak, and with a little luck, one of Connolly or Smith will fill another of those spots
- Seidenberg will be a full year removed from the surgery and therefore should take a step closer towards his former self
- Chara remains a rock on the blue line, though aging
The bad news:
- We still have massive holes on defense and minimal depth on the wings
- We've got almost 15% of the payroll tied up in either dead money (Lucic) or guys who deserve minimum level contracts (Kelly, McQuaid)
- We've got basically no prospects outside maybe Khoklachev who can help next year
They missed the playoffs last year. They lost their best defenseman, a top winger, lost Campbell and replaced him with an even worse player, and none of their draft picks will make an impact this year.Salem's Lot said:
Chara is older, Seidenberg is older, only Pasta and Spooner can be expected to improve with any significance.
This team cannot be saved by what already exists.
With health, the forwards are good. Really good if Pastrnak and Spooner can put up 50+ points and Marchand bounces back. But the defense looks terrible. If (optimistically) Chara is a #1 and Krug a #4, everyone else is a 5 or 6. That leaves two full pairings that need improvement. Julien has to pick between Miller, Miller, Trotman and Morrow for the final pairing. Good luck to him, they could have four #4 defensemen or 4 AHLers.cshea said:
What's next? The only move that makes sense is to trade one of the young defensemen and Rask for a defensive upgrade. With the value of goalies, who knows what defensemen they could expect. And would the drop off in net be worth it? They're in a tough spot made harder by Sweeney's latest trades. Another GM making a fair trade with the Bruins is a PR loss.
He just said Rask is not on the market. He could be lying, but I don't think he's getting moved.
He said they're entering free agency with the intent on improving the team. Certainly seems like they aren't done wheeling and dealing just yet. I'm terrified of overpaying for someone like Beleskey or bringing in someone like Marty St. Louis for a year but we'll see.
He said they're entering free agency with the intent on improving the team. Certainly seems like they aren't done wheeling and dealing just yet. I'm terrified of overpaying for someone like Beleskey or bringing in someone like Marty St. Louis for a year but we'll see.
cshea said:
I have complete faith that the guy who traded a draft pick for nothing but a worse pick will be able to keep this team out of cap hell :nsmith:
Alex Semin is being bought out by Carolina. I'd absolutely take him at a lower price if it was possible.
Assuming Savard is moved to a cap floor team (did not count his salary) and the RFAs sign for the following:
Jones: $1.75m AAV
Spooner: $1.2m AAV
Connolly: $1.2m AAV
I'm seeing the following cap situation:
edit: That roster breaks down as:
Eriksson - Krejci - Connolly
Marchand - Bergeron - Smith
Kelly - Spooner - Pastrnak
Talbot - Kemppainen - Rinaldo
Ferlin
Chara - Trotman
Seidenberg - Krug
Morrow - McQuaid
Miller
Rask
Jones
If they can't find a taker for Savard, they send Pastrnak down for day 1 and LTIR Savard.
Jones: $1.75m AAV
Spooner: $1.2m AAV
Connolly: $1.2m AAV
I'm seeing the following cap situation:
edit: That roster breaks down as:
Eriksson - Krejci - Connolly
Marchand - Bergeron - Smith
Kelly - Spooner - Pastrnak
Talbot - Kemppainen - Rinaldo
Ferlin
Chara - Trotman
Seidenberg - Krug
Morrow - McQuaid
Miller
Rask
Jones
If they can't find a taker for Savard, they send Pastrnak down for day 1 and LTIR Savard.
Please God no! I just read that he might be next. Sweeney is reading SOSH!! Make it stopj44thor said:
Pasta should be playing with Krejci on the first line and they should find someone quick to play the wing. Speed kills and something this team needs to be all in on (if not Loui). Bergeron and Marchand can play with Connolly, then balance the kids and veterans on the bottom two lines depending on who plays best with who. The D will be a weak spot unless Morrow, Trotman, and Miller can take the next step but this team isn't as far gone as it seems if they play their cards right - granted it's not an encouraging off season thus far.
What would be wrong with St. Louis for a year? That's exactly the type of move I hope they make. He'd fit the Recchi mold pretty nicely and be a nice addition to the lockerroom.cshea said:
Well, credit where it is due, Sweeney ended up getting a fantastic return for Milan Lucic.
A mid first round pick, a (probably late) 2016 first round pick, a good D prospect, and a decent forward prospect (from just a look at the numbers he seems like more of a Ferlin/Florek type).
All in all, that's a great return for Lucic and $3 million.
Here is what I think I would have tried to do differently. Abort the Hamilton deal and sign the guy. Don't sign McQuaid. Make the same deal for Lucic. Install Jones as the #1 goalie. Trade Rask. That series of moves would have a similar cap impact as what Sweeney actually did and would have kept Hamilton in the fold (and avoided keeping McQuaid on the fold).
I would imagine this would have been hard to pull off from a timing perspective (once Rask is dealt the price for Jones might go up) and it is a major gamble given how good Rask is. But it would have kept a potential #1 defenseman.
A mid first round pick, a (probably late) 2016 first round pick, a good D prospect, and a decent forward prospect (from just a look at the numbers he seems like more of a Ferlin/Florek type).
All in all, that's a great return for Lucic and $3 million.
Here is what I think I would have tried to do differently. Abort the Hamilton deal and sign the guy. Don't sign McQuaid. Make the same deal for Lucic. Install Jones as the #1 goalie. Trade Rask. That series of moves would have a similar cap impact as what Sweeney actually did and would have kept Hamilton in the fold (and avoided keeping McQuaid on the fold).
I would imagine this would have been hard to pull off from a timing perspective (once Rask is dealt the price for Jones might go up) and it is a major gamble given how good Rask is. But it would have kept a potential #1 defenseman.
I'm taking a wait and see on Krejci with Pasta. Krejci isn't especially fast and has never played with anyone approaching Pasta's speed. If Spooner can continue to improve his defensive game and they put someone defensively responsible with him (such as Loui), they have the potential to create huge matchup issues on the 3rd line.Reardons Beard said:
At this point in the offseason I cannot decide which ledge to jump off. I am trying to rationalize my way out.
Who is a good target to sign or acquire through trade?
Will a return to health (Chara, Krecji, Seidenberg) move the needle?
What can Spooner and Connolly provide over a full season?
Will Krug be able to take another step forward?
Can Reilly Smith assume a bigger role?
- Hamilton - If management decided to go the offer sheet route... draft picks not likely to see time on the big club for 2-3 years. The trade resulted in less pick(s) but still no talent on the big club for a few years.
- Lucic - Overpaid but still not a player easy to replace in terms of production/presence. Great trade but nothing in the pipeline to fill the big club void.
- McQuaid - Maybe the injuries are behind him and can be a competent 5/6 dman and tough guy. Hopefully Seidenberg can bounce back and be a decent top 4. Hope, hope, hope.
- Rinaldo - Nothing. I just cannot figure out any way to the front office can spin this move to the fan base. For free this move cannot be justified. 3rd round pick? No talent or character.
Who is a good target to sign or acquire through trade?
Will a return to health (Chara, Krecji, Seidenberg) move the needle?
What can Spooner and Connolly provide over a full season?
Will Krug be able to take another step forward?
Can Reilly Smith assume a bigger role?
has Kirk broken the code?
https://twitter.com/kluedeke29/status/615958208826490880
@kluedeke29
Kirk Luedeke retweeted Central Scrutinizer
Good point: Jakub Zboril, Colin Miller, Sean Kuraly & PTBDL in 2016 draft re-set the clock
@Cnt_Scrutinizer
Central Scrutinizer retweeted Kirk Luedeke
So looks like the Barry Pederson for Neely trade will never stop bringing pieces to the Bruins.
https://twitter.com/kluedeke29/status/615958208826490880
@kluedeke29
Kirk Luedeke retweeted Central Scrutinizer
Good point: Jakub Zboril, Colin Miller, Sean Kuraly & PTBDL in 2016 draft re-set the clock
@Cnt_Scrutinizer
Central Scrutinizer retweeted Kirk Luedeke
So looks like the Barry Pederson for Neely trade will never stop bringing pieces to the Bruins.
https://twitter.com/kluedeke29/status/615958208826490880The Napkin said:
link to tweet
@kluedeke29
Kirk Luedeke retweeted Central Scrutinizer
Good point: Jakub Zboril, Colin Miller, Sean Kuraly & PTBDL in 2016 draft re-set the clock
@Cnt_Scrutinizer
Central Scrutinizer retweeted Kirk Luedeke
So looks like the Barry Pederson for Neely trade will never stop bringing pieces to the Bruins.
I'm sorry I must have missed something, is Luedeke saying that they blow it up this year and hope to get a bunch of young talent in for next year?
It's like the genealogy verses of the Bible
Pederson begat Neely and Wesley who was traded to Carolina (and whose banner is still being raised) which begat McLaren and Aitken and Samsonov.
And lo it was foretold that McLaren would become Hackett and Jilsson, who became Boyes, who became Wideman. And then didst Widerman beget Horton and Campbell.
And Saomsonv begat Reasoner and Statsny and a pick, which was to become Lucic.
And Lucic begat Miller and a pick which became Zboril and also Jones.
And lo did Jones beget the 2017 pick which was foretold.
And so are the generations of the Pederson-Neely trade.
May they continue to flourish in the Garden of the Bruins. So it is written.
Pederson begat Neely and Wesley who was traded to Carolina (and whose banner is still being raised) which begat McLaren and Aitken and Samsonov.
And lo it was foretold that McLaren would become Hackett and Jilsson, who became Boyes, who became Wideman. And then didst Widerman beget Horton and Campbell.
And Saomsonv begat Reasoner and Statsny and a pick, which was to become Lucic.
And Lucic begat Miller and a pick which became Zboril and also Jones.
And lo did Jones beget the 2017 pick which was foretold.
And so are the generations of the Pederson-Neely trade.
May they continue to flourish in the Garden of the Bruins. So it is written.
To play devil's advocate, wording this differently - they didn't have a way out of their cap hell but were able to get a good number of picks in a deep draft while at least treading water capwise. They still have to ice players for next season. So in a way, it was for futures but the benefit is not readily apparent yet.cshea said:
Now why they felt backfilling the departures of Lucic and Hamilton with McQuaid and ZAC FUCKIN RINALDO is beyond me though... But had those two moves not happened at least I could sort of, kind of, see the "treading water while gaining boatloads of assets" argument.
I'm hoping for Cody Franson or Matt Beleskey somewhat cheap. I'm resigning to the fact that we'll end up with Bickell
Sports Hub reported Spooner signed a two year extension, has anyone seen what the money was on that yet?
LeBrun has the B's taking a run at Green today.
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/status/616217021961904128
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/status/616217021961904128
DJ Bean appears to be the source on this. No numbers disclosed.TheRealness said:
http://bigbadblog.weei.com/sports/boston/hockey/bruins/2015/06/30/source-ryan-spooner-to-sign-2-year-extension-with-bruins/
Please god no, with the money he will get it, it won't be anywhere near worth it. He sucks defensively and he isn't even as good offensively as he used to be.Spaulding Smails said:
45 points in 72 games suggests otherwise.
Edit: 52.3% CF last year. Needs to be sheltered a bit, but the Bruins need someone who can push the puck up the ice. I'd take him.
Edit: 52.3% CF last year. Needs to be sheltered a bit, but the Bruins need someone who can push the puck up the ice. I'd take him.
in 08-09 he put up 73 points followed by a year where put up 76. Then he had three injury plagued seasons before playing nearly 2 full years the last two years putting up 38 and 45 points respectively. So a 30-40 point decline doesn't show a decline in his offensive ability?cshea said:
It probably also signifies him taking fewer risks, as Trotz isn't exactly Boudreau with his d-men joining the rush. He also had less TOI with Alzner/Carlson ahead of him.
Under $5.5m/year and I'd be happy with it
Under $5.5m/year and I'd be happy with it
Spaulding Smails said:
I don't take that to mean that he has heard they will, I take that to mean LeBrun assumes they will. Likely because they just traded their best offensive right shot defenseman, but I don't know that I buy they would be interested in him. Someone will over pay for Green. I would like that to not be the Bruins.
I feel as if the Bruins JUST traded away a backup goalie and a top 9 forward.cshea said:
I could be wrong though.
Haha, no kidding. Jones was never in the cards though, I think he was simply an asset.
I think I'd be happy if they walked out of today with Green, Semin on a 1-year show-me deal and Tom Greiss. Seems like Beleskey may be on their list, but I wouldn't want to pay him too much.
I think I'd be happy if they walked out of today with Green, Semin on a 1-year show-me deal and Tom Greiss. Seems like Beleskey may be on their list, but I wouldn't want to pay him too much.
The Blackhawks seem ripe for the picking. They now have 13 forwards and 3 D signed and only $300k in cap space.
So far, the forwards actually seem to be in a decent position as of this evening. I'm not exactly sure how they'll line up in the end, but assuming both Hayes and Connolly re-sign, they have:
Marchand-Bergeron-Eriksson/Connolly
Beleskey/Hayes-Krejci-Connolly/Eriksson
Hayes/Beleskey-Spooner-Pastrnak
Talbot-Kelly-Rinaldo/suspension replacement
It's not fantastic, but it should be good enough to keep them in games, especially if someone can bump Rinaldo out of the lineup.
The defense, on the other hand... :barf:
Marchand-Bergeron-Eriksson/Connolly
Beleskey/Hayes-Krejci-Connolly/Eriksson
Hayes/Beleskey-Spooner-Pastrnak
Talbot-Kelly-Rinaldo/suspension replacement
It's not fantastic, but it should be good enough to keep them in games, especially if someone can bump Rinaldo out of the lineup.
The defense, on the other hand... :barf:
MiracleOfO2704 said:
Agreed on the forwards in terms of quality, but I would say:
Marchand/Bergeron/Connolly
Eriksson/Krejci/Pastranak
Beleskey/Spooner/Hayes
Talbot/Kelly/Rinaldo
They should spend on defense and trade for an elite one if they can.
Any other rumblings out there?