SOSH Running Dogs

[TallerThanPedroia]

Great job, guys!

 

[underhandtofirst]

Nipped at the line

...the starting line.

Here's where Patrick Moulton (534) won the race and I (45) lost it. This little edge off the starting line allowed him to squeak out a razor thin 35 minute victory. Next year I plan on improving my start.

 

[BleacherFan]

Nipped at the line

...the starting line.

Here's where Patrick Moulton (534) won the race and I (45) lost it. This little edge off the starting line allowed him to squeak out a razor thin 35 minute victory. Next year I plan on improving my start.

Haha, cool pic - you can tell your kids how you toed the line next to an olympic trials qualifier

THanks for the kind words - it's amazing how mental racing is. And the less you race, the less confidence you manage - I think that was a big thing for me.

For me, a nice easy week once again until I do a very hilly 5k in Saugus - I like to run this since it's in my home town. Legs are feeling OK so lets see how that goes.

Fris, I was thinking of you - during the post race beers, this one guy was wearing a singlet from the 1979 race down there in Malden - in near perfect condition also! I also had a conversation with Coach Squires on everything from Paula Radcliffe to the Kenyans to this years US track atheletes - what an interesting character.

On the moultons - it's funny the way I tell them apart is that Casey smiles more and is a little more outgoing. I heard Casey wore his brother's alumni shirt up in NH on Monday trying to trick some of those runners also :rolling:

 

[underhandtofirst]

I wanted to thank BleacherFan and Fris for recommending the Run around the Cape race in Gloucester. I wish I could have performed better, but I look forward to going back again in the future. My family enjoyed the day as well, especially heading off to the beach after the race. Just a great day for everyone.

Got back out running again today. I planned to do an easy 4 yesterday but didnt have time with the first day of school and work stuff. Today was a more toned down interval workout. Started with about 3 1/4 and then did 5x600m with 90 second recovery (200m jog).

Intervals: 2:16, 2:17, 2:15, 2:14, 2:12 (5:53 pace for last one, 6:07 for slowest)
Recovery: 81, 85, 90, 86

Finished up with about 1 1/4 mile cooldown. Hoped to run another mile or so, but ran out of time. These were a LOT tougher than the 1000m intervals I did the previous week. I ran these a bit quicker and I was really feeling it for the last couple. My HR was at 95 and 96% of HR max at the end of the last two.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

5.5 at 7:50, entirely pain free, except for the usual haven't-run-in-seven-weeks stuff (like my feet). I'm stiff now but that'll pass too. If there are good conditions for the Ollie 5m in two weeks, I think I can pull off 7:30. I ran 8:38 two years ago.

Hmm, well. No rain once the race started, and no sun either, but holy hell was it humid. I was completely soaked at the end and I didn't dry out after 2 hours.

Still: 5.06m, 38:14, 7:32 pace. I put on a nice sprint at the end with some guy wearing a Thirty Irish Runners shirt and beat him by a second. Of course he's in his 50s, but still, it was cool to feel my quads go into overdrive for 20 seconds.

I started too fast though, surprise surprise:

Mile 1: 6:51
Mile 2: 7:33
Mile 3: 8:01
Mile 4: 7:56
Mile 5: 7:31
.06: 5:22

Crossed the finish going sub 5. 62nd place in my division (M20-29), out of 185 or so. Most importantly, I feel great. No pain the whole time or afterwards in joints or bones, just a few upper body cramps here and there.

At some point my pace was 7:36, so I'm glad I was able to step up and bring it back down a little.

 

[BleacherFan]

Hmm, well. No rain once the race started, and no sun either, but holy hell was it humid. I was completely soaked at the end and I didn't dry out after 2 hours.

At some point my pace was 7:36, so I'm glad I was able to step up and bring it back down a little.

Nice job! - always a deep field with the USATF also . You weren't kidding about the humidity - I ran in Breakheart (5k) in Wakefield/Saugus today and those hills are very difficult in ideal conditions. The dewpoint must have been low 70's I swear...

I ended up winning in 17:24 - a 20 sec improvement over last year - in harder conditions this year. I was redlining shaking off the 2nd place guy before the hills and I just kept sucking wind until the end (hills start about 1.25miles in)

Next up - tenatively the "Run for All Ages" around Lake Q in Wakefield - fast and flat.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Still: 5.06m, 38:14, 7:32 pace. I put on a nice sprint at the end with some guy wearing a Thirty Irish Runners shirt and beat him by a second. Of course he's in his 50s, but still, it was cool to feel my quads go into overdrive for 20 seconds.
snip

Crossed the finish going sub 5. 62nd place in my division (M20-29), out of 185 or so. Most importantly, I feel great. No pain the whole time or afterwards in joints or bones, just a few upper body cramps here and there.

At some point my pace was 7:36, so I'm glad I was able to step up and bring it back down a little.

Very nice job. From earlier posts it doesnt sound like you've been able to put a ton of time into training which makes this result more impressive. It is nasty outside today, not a good day for running. I got 17 in this morning in the pouring rain for half of it, but I'll take that over jungle-like humidity.

Those splits are kind of all over the place were there a lot of hills? Nice strong finish, that's always a great feeling. Do you have another race planned to build on this success?

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

The only substantial hill was in the second mile. Mile 3 was cramps, Mile 4 had a bit of uphill. I just started too fast. That, and the humidity combined with wearing a shirt for the first time all summer. I'm still pretty happy with the result, and I'm only slightly sore this mornign.

I did take seven weeks off from running recently, but I was hitting the elliptical really hard, so my cardio is in good shape. That was the only thing really holding me back yesterday, too. Zero pain in my bones or joints, and I had plenty of energy. I probably need to learn to breathe better too, it was trial and error yesterday to work through those cramps. "Sucking wind" as Dave puts it is pretty accurate.

Next up is the Honan 5k over here in Allston, and then I'm doing the BAA half in October. If I can do that around 8:00 I'll be pretty happy. Paddy's is a week after that, and that'll probably be it for the year. Just spend the winter getting faster. I'm still slightly pessimistic that I'll be able to qualify for the 2010 Boston marathon, but I think the odds are improving again.

 

[BleacherFan]

I'm still slightly pessimistic that I'll be able to qualify for the 2010 Boston marathon, but I think the odds are improving again.

All in due time - first underhand and then you

I need to start thinking about Boston again and I need a more structured schedule. The biggest thing will be convincing my wife to let me out of the house for 2+ hours a whack on Sundays with a 6 month old I am playing with something like:

M: 7-9 before work, 3-4 at night after daughter is sleeping (10-13)
T: 7-9 b.w (20-22)
W: 7-9 b.w - 3-4 at night (30-35)
R: 7-9 b.w (37-44)
F: 7-9 b.w - 3-4 at night (47-57)
S: 8-10 / 3-4 (58-71)
S: 16-20 / 3-4 (77-95)


For me I found a 85 week / 12 week average to be perfect - curious to know what others think. For me it's all about squeezing in runs when I can - I would love to sneak in a nice 10-12 mile run during the week but given my schedule it would be difficult. This schedule gives me some wiggle room and running

P.S. Recently I've been getting these wierd cramps behind my left shoulder/left part of my back during intense pace. Anyone else get these? Normally when I cramp up, it's of the normal side stitch variety.

 

[BleacherFan]

Hit the track for the first time in a while - between the really hot weather in late August and a few races early in September it's been a while doing goal 5k pace stuff. I wanted to do like 6x800's but that goal was ended early:

2:30,2:30,2:32,2:33 (shoelace came down also) (400 rec)

I was wiped after those - I decided to then do 4x400's since I didn't have the legs today

71,72,72,69 (400 rec)

Glad I was able to get the 400's in - it was wierd - my legs just felt heavy and I was sucking wind pretty good. I may do a ladder of some sorts next time - those 800's were tough

 

[underhandtofirst]

I need to start thinking about Boston again and I need a more structured schedule. The biggest thing will be convincing my wife to let me out of the house for 2+ hours a whack on Sundays with a 6 month old

Get up early and be back home by like 7am or so. Who needs restful weekend or extra sleep anyway. Besides, you're a parent now so the amount of time you have to yourself is very small. Enjoy that 5-7am quiet time :lol:

I am playing with something like:
M: 7-9 before work, 3-4 at night after daughter is sleeping (10-13)
T: 7-9 b.w (20-22)
W: 7-9 b.w - 3-4 at night (30-35)
R: 7-9 b.w (37-44)
F: 7-9 b.w - 3-4 at night (47-57)
S: 8-10 / 3-4 (58-71)
S: 16-20 / 3-4 (77-95)
For me I found a 85 week / 12 week average to be perfect - curious to know what others think. For me it's all about squeezing in runs when I can - I would love to sneak in a nice 10-12 mile run during the week but given my schedule it would be difficult. This schedule gives me some wiggle room and running

Do you run near home or at work?
If you can stomach getting up 30 mins earlier to go from 7-9 to 11-14 one or two days a week I think that would really help. It could replace the double in the afternoon. Also, doing it all in once session would be a nice benefit training-wise. But as you mention it is all about squeezing it in.

This summer I've really bumped up my mid week runs. I've been doing 10-13 miles one one day, 7-10 on another when I do tempo or intervals. Two other days are light (4-6 easy) and finally a long run on the weekend (15-21). My average will be about 43 mpw for the last 18 weeks and 46 for the last 12. Each week I average about 8:00-8:05 per mile. The variety of run times and paces have helped keep everything fresh.

P.S. Recently I've been getting these wierd cramps behind my left shoulder/left part of my back during intense pace. Anyone else get these? Normally when I cramp up, it's of the normal side stitch variety.

Couple off the wall thoughts. Do you get the pain running on roads or on the track? I've read some people get weird pains as a result of the pitch of the roads. This is because most roads have a slight pitch to allow water to run off. Have you change where you run? Started doing new stretches or eliminated old ones that cause imbalances which could lead to muscle issues?

Oh and the road pitch can cause some issues during races because you normally run with traffic. Most people run into traffic when training so their foot strike with the ground is different during races. This can cause some really sweet blisters if you're not prepared. Try and run on different sides of the road (when safe obviously)

 

[sass a thon]

Hmm, well. No rain once the race started, and no sun either, but holy hell was it humid. I was completely soaked at the end and I didn't dry out after 2 hours.

Still: 5.06m, 38:14, 7:32 pace. I put on a nice sprint at the end with some guy wearing a Thirty Irish Runners shirt and beat him by a second. Of course he's in his 50s, but still, it was cool to feel my quads go into overdrive for 20 seconds.

I started too fast though, surprise surprise:

Mile 1: 6:51
Mile 2: 7:33
Mile 3: 8:01
Mile 4: 7:56
Mile 5: 7:31
.06: 5:22

Crossed the finish going sub 5. 62nd place in my division (M20-29), out of 185 or so. Most importantly, I feel great. No pain the whole time or afterwards in joints or bones, just a few upper body cramps here and there.

At some point my pace was 7:36, so I'm glad I was able to step up and bring it back down a little.

Damn, you're fast! Congrats Steve.

 

[BleacherFan]

Get up early and be back home by like 7am or so. Who needs restful weekend or extra sleep anyway. Besides, you're a parent now so the amount of time you have to yourself is very small. Enjoy that 5-7am quiet time :buddy:

Problem is on the weekends I let my wife sleep in a little so I watch the little one - hopefully once she gets in a nice stable sleeping pattern I can start running again early on the weekends

Do you run near home or at work?
If you can stomach getting up 30 mins earlier to go from 7-9 to 11-14 one or two days a week I think that would really help. It could replace the double in the afternoon. Also, doing it all in once session would be a nice benefit training-wise. But as you mention it is all about squeezing it in.

Now that my gym is back open early, I've been running before work again. If I can get in early enough, I will be trying to do 10+ but it won't be anything I can do on a consistent basis. Otherwise I'll be keeping with the doubles

Couple off the wall thoughts. Do you get the pain running on roads or on the track? I've read some people get weird pains as a result of the pitch of the roads. This is because most roads have a slight pitch to allow water to run off. Have you change where you run? Started doing new stretches or eliminated old ones that cause imbalances which could lead to muscle issues?

Nothing changed at all but you may be onto something with the roads. I just did a track workout this morning and didn't feel it and I was generally as dehydrated as usual. Interesting, I'll keep an eye out for it!


I did a nice tempo workout this morning - I ended up doing 5.5 @ 5:45 with pretty consistent 800 splits (2:52-2:53). I didn't feel struggling at all so I felt if time had allowed for it that I could have kept it up for at least 2 more miles.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Problem is on the weekends I let my wife sleep in a little so I watch the little one - hopefully once she gets in a nice stable sleeping pattern I can start running again early on the weekends

I hear you on this one. Good luck getting her on a stable sleeping pattern. I can still picture the day my oldest slept through the night for the first time. It was a great feeling being able to sleep more than 4 straight hours again.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Last weekend I messed up my schedule and had to run 3 days in a row a bit tougher than I wanted. On Thurs I did intervals, 5x600 at 5k pace, then Friday I did 11 at mp +40sec. I was looking forward to rest or recovery run on Saturday and long run on Sunday. Friday night I realized my wife had to work Sunday morning so I had to switch my long run to Saturday. My legs were pretty toast on Sat am and it started raining about a mile into my 17 mile run. I spent the first 5 miles trying to will myself through at least 10. By the time I reached 7 miles I felt ok and decided to press on. I ended up finishing all 17 at a slow pace (mp +70 secs) but it was a huge mental win to get through it. It was a tough week with the 25k on Monday. I ran a VERY easy 4 on Sunday night for a total of 56 for the week.

This week I did more 5x600 at 5k pace (approx 6:05 per mile) and felt very good. Wed I did 12 including miles 22-26 and 1-4 of the BSM. Felt very good the entire run even at mp+25secs. The pace was a nice gradual increase from around mp+35 secs to mp+15secs. Got to be happy being about to do that after intervals the day before. Today's an easy 4, tomorrow I'm going to do a time trial of about 15k and then sunday 15 at an easy pace. That should be interesting after running hard tomorrow.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Ryan Hall Blog

RH Olympic entry

I enjoyed reading Ryan Hall's blog leading up to and after the Olympics. He had some interesting comments in his final post.

Thoughts at the finish

“This is not exactly how I envisioned it”, I thought to myself as I descended down the cement path into the quiet of the tunnel that would lead me into the Birds Nest.

I had never physically been into the Olympic Stadium before but I had run through this tunnel thousands of times in my minds eye during training. For the past decade, whenever I ran through a tunnel I would always picture myself running into the Olympic Stadium, of coarse, in my dream world I was always winning the marathon, not struggling in in 10th place. Never the less, as I made my way into the stadium I decided I would enjoy the moment. My eyes circled around the stadium in amazement. This is what I pictured heaven to be like.

Race plan

From the very first hundred meters Samuel Wanjiru, of Kenya, made it clear that he was feeling good. He sprinted straight to the front and asserted a fast pace. During those opening kilometers I was forced to make a tough decision: either go with the leaders and hope that I wasn’t committing suicide or try and win by out smarting the lead pack knowing that they had gone out too hard and wait for them to slow in the later stages.

I knew that above all I had to listen to my body, the pace felt fast and my breathing felt heavy, and when I finally saw the first 5k split (I never saw a mile or kilometer split before 5k) of just over 15 minutes I knew that I couldn’t go out any harder than I was running. I also knew that if I kept running three minutes per kilometer I would win the race, however, much to my surprise three minutes per kilometer would have only earned me the silver medal.

Rethinking the race and training

In hindsight I wish that I had gone out with the leaders and just hung as long as possible. I think the way I ran was smarter and probably did yield a higher finish than if I had gone out two minutes harder for the opening half, but part of me also wonders if I would have been more excited being with the leaders and been able to rally with some supernatural strength and pull off a medal. Although, if I would have blown up I know I would have been telling myself that if I would have just went out slower I could have held the pace all the way to the line. In the end, I wasn’t physically on top of my game. I had put in a lot of hard work but for whatever reason my training hadn’t been nearly as quality as in my previous marathons. I was running my tempo runs 10-15 seconds slower than is my typical. As an athlete this can be hard to swallow. When the big day arrives I want to have my very best, so naturally it is disappointing to only have my B, or C, game.

It is going to take some time to figure out why my preparations weren’t as good as typical. Was it the pressure and anticipation of my first Olympics? Was it living apart from Sara? Am I just not as good as others in the heat and humidity? Was I trying too hard in practice or not trying hard enough? Did I not take enough time off after London? Should I have run London? The hard part about running is there are so many variables that come into play. Trying to identify the ones that really impacted your performance on the day can make your head spin.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

Honan 5k. Conditions: just stopped raining, so slick (two people fell at the tight turnaround), but no sun and not too humid.

3.11 mi, 21:39 (6:57) watch time, 21:56 clock time (7:03).

I could not have done it without my good friend Rick, a very good runner, who ran with me and paced me. Which lead to my first ever negative splits (we started pretty far back):

7:16
6:50
6:48
6:23 (.11)

 

[underhandtofirst]

Honan 5k. Conditions: just stopped raining, so slick (two people fell at the tight turnaround), but no sun and not too humid.

3.11 mi, 21:39 (6:57) watch time, 21:56 clock time (7:03).

I could not have done it without my good friend Rick, a very good runner, who ran with me and paced me. Which lead to my first ever negative splits (we started pretty far back):

7:16
6:50
6:48
6:23 (.11)

Steve really well done. It's amazing seeing how much you've improved the last couple years.

The even pace for the first couple miles must have felt really good. It also enabled you to have that nice kick at the end.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

59th place! 24th in age, 52nd in gender! And I was hoping I'd snuck into the top 100....

21:53 clock time, apparently.

The whole thing felt really good, but I was definitely maxing my heart rate at the end. No pain anywhere. I think it's time to start training with my HR monitor strap on.

Next up: BAA half.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Injuries suck.

I started off on my 15k time trial Sat morning and was chugging along at a nice 6:50-6:55/mi pace. I felt very relaxed and doing pace calculations in my head. All of a sudden at 3.5 miles in I felt a small grab in my right hamstring. I stopped and started to walk home. After about 1/4 mile I was able to jog a little and gradually continue at a slow pace to get home. I wouldnt classify it as pain, but just a dull ache while running. Iced it Saturday and tried to run Sunday am. After 1/4 mile I had to stop as the legs was pretty tight and I knew I was altering my stride to compensate.

Today is a day off, tomorrow I'm hoping to get in an easy 5 miles to test it. I may have to turn my VO2 Max interval session on Wednesday into just a base run. Better to get moderate paced miles than nothing.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

Ooh, careful, UTF.

Race Predictor

Now that I've got two races within two weeks, let's see what this predicts:

13.1 miles, 1:56:11 (8:52)

Well, I ran a 1:51:21 (8:23) last May, so I'm gonna say no to that prediction B)

The MacMillan calculator gives me 8:09 based on my 5m run, and 7:39 based on my 5k. I'll be pretty happy with 8:00.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Ooh, careful, UTF.
Now that I've got two races within two weeks, let's see what this predicts:

13.1 miles, 1:56:11 (8:52)

Well, I ran a 1:51:21 (8:23) last May, so I'm gonna say no to that prediction B)

The MacMillan calculator gives me 8:09 based on my 5m run, and 7:39 based on my 5k. I'll be pretty happy with 8:00.

Also remember you're in the middle of training and not tapering much, if at all (just a guess). This would lead to some slower race times and throwing off the predictor. Also, your pacing in the 5k was much better than some of the other races so that was probably closer to an optimal performance. When combining a very good shorter distance race with a less than optimal longer race you'll get a prediction for a much slower goal race because it think you slow down a ton as the race gets longer.

I encountered this with my recent 5k and 25k results. The 5k was a pretty good run, the 25k was bad pacing and hilly. The predictor said my marathon will be around 3:31, slower than last year. If I run slower than 3:22 or so I'll be very bummed.

edit: adding past experience
I ran 1:46:24 in Feb '06 with 8:45 pace the last 2 miles. 6 weeks before the race I ran 2 5k time trials in the low 23s. You're way ahead of that pace so I can see how you could go sub 8:00 with good pacing. That HM was the longest I had ever run by more than 2 miles too. And that fall I ran 3:38 for the BSM. I can definitely see you doing that.

 

[BleacherFan]

Injuries suck.

Sorry to hear you limped up a little bit. Don't be afraid to take a couple days off - you've invested too much so far and you won't lose any fitness

The whole thing felt really good, but I was definitely maxing my heart rate at the end.

Steve, nice race - don't give your friend too much credit - you had to still stick with him. I'd love to see how you did with some more mileage!

I may try a ladder tomorrow (400,800,1200,1600,2000) but if I get up early enough I may try to get a 10 miler in before work...

Starting to plateau again with my legs. My daily runs (with exceptions) are closer to 45-50 minutes now that I'm running before work...That plus about 40 straight days gets you a little tired if you don't have the mileage I need.

Still debating whether to run the Portsmouth half in November....

 

[BleacherFan]

I had a "magic carpet run" today...

Started in Meffa and went down to 28 and went all the way into Cambridge past Twin City Plaza to Lechmere station - went by the Galleria over to Memorial Drive. I then stayed along the Charles (man some nice sights over there!) all the way to Mt. Auburn hospital where I had to ask for directions to get back to Fresh Pond (somehow I managed to end up behind it in some residental area). I then took Rte 16 all the way back to Alewife and then back to my car.

All in all 13.4 miles @ 6:34 pace - felt surprisingly well given the lack of "long" runs like that. OTOH, it was a pretty flat route...

 

[underhandtofirst]

Still battling the hamstring. After .50 miles Sunday I took Monday off, did an easy 4.5 miles on Tues as a test. I got through it at 8:30 pace. That night I could barely sleep, for some reason my back had all sorts of pain that occasionally shot down my leg.

I got out of bed Wed morning and basically crawled downstairs to attempt another run. The leg and back felt better as I walked. On the road I was out about .4 miles and decided it was time to go home again. As I got to my street I was feeling better so I just kept going. After a mile or so of gradually picking up the pace (going downhill helped) I headed into the local HS track to attempt some VO2max intervals. The plan for the week called for 4x1200 at 5k pace with 2 min rest. I ended up running 4:31, 4:37 and 4:41 for the repeats and stopped there. I was pretty pumped to get through it. The leg was tight so I decided I couldnt do another without extra effort which would be dangerous. I started home and kept feeling better and better. I could always feel the tightness, but my stride got closer to normal. About a mile from home I felt it twinge again so I walked home.

Some ice and good rest and I feel better today than any day since the weekend. I took another day off today and tomorrow will be a comfortable 10 and then 21 the following day assuming tomorrow goes well. I'm not out of the woods yet, but I feel it is managable. Just have to make sure I get a good warmup before running at any type of pace.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I'm pretty sure my hamstring issues are behind me now (ha ha). Did 10 on Fri and felt it the entire time, but as it loosened up I was able to keep increasing the pace without much more effort. Saturday was 21 and went well. Pace was a steady 8:20 for most of it then I started to slow to 8:30 then 8:40 with around 5 to go. I told myself to stop being a wimp and pushed it. Finished the last 4.5 at 8:00 pace. Actually the faster pace felt much better as my stride was probably more natural then plodding along at the slow pace. Sunday was able to do a very easy 5 at night which is something I wouldnt have dreamed of doing in past years after 20 miles.

Today was another VO2max workout, I think my 2nd to last before the race. It called for 5x600 at 5k pace with 90 second recovery.
Int Splits 600m: 2:16, 2:15, 2:14, 2:14, 2:13 (pace is 5:56-6:04)
Recovery 200m: 86, 88, 90, 87 (11:31-12:04)

I did about 3 miles at base pace before then about 2.5 after for a total of 7.5. The most encouraging part of the workout was the warmup. At one point I was crusing along at 7:30-7:40 pace with a HR in the low-mid 140s which is about 8-10 bpm less than last year. This combined with my higher lactate threshold should enable me to keep a good solid pace for a lot longer this year. Will it be enough though. Less than 4 weeks and I'll find out.

 

[BleacherFan]

I'm pretty sure my hamstring issues are behind me now (ha ha). Did 10 on Fri and felt it the entire time, but as it loosened up I was able to keep increasing the pace without much more effort. Saturday was 21 and went well. Pace was a steady 8:20 for most of it then I started to slow to 8:30 then 8:40 with around 5 to go. I told myself to stop being a wimp and pushed it. Finished the last 4.5 at 8:00 pace. Actually the faster pace felt much better as my stride was probably more natural then plodding along at the slow pace. Sunday was able to do a very easy 5 at night which is something I wouldnt have dreamed of doing in past years after 20 miles.

Today was another VO2max workout, I think my 2nd to last before the race. It called for 5x600 at 5k pace with 90 second recovery.
Int Splits 600m: 2:16, 2:15, 2:14, 2:14, 2:13 (pace is 5:56-6:04)
Recovery 200m: 86, 88, 90, 87 (11:31-12:04)

I did about 3 miles at base pace before then about 2.5 after for a total of 7.5. The most encouraging part of the workout was the warmup. At one point I was crusing along at 7:30-7:40 pace with a HR in the low-mid 140s which is about 8-10 bpm less than last year. This combined with my higher lactate threshold should enable me to keep a good solid pace for a lot longer this year. Will it be enough though. Less than 4 weeks and I'll find out.

Nice job - only a few weeks remain - amazing where the summer goes. This is why I prefer spring marathons - training in the dead of winter over the beautiful summer.

Interesting workout - why would one do 600s vs 800s? Right now I am having problems with my 800s - I have no problems doing the 400's but I seem to be falling too much off with the 8's. Tomorrow I will be trying some 800's again, hoping that my increased mileage will help me on that 2nd lap but maybe 600s at 5k pace would suit me better.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Interesting workout - why would one do 600s vs 800s? Right now I am having problems with my 800s - I have no problems doing the 400's but I seem to be falling too much off with the 8's. Tomorrow I will be trying some 800's again, hoping that my increased mileage will help me on that 2nd lap but maybe 600s at 5k pace would suit me better.

Probably because they are a little easier. I have another time trial set for Saturday and a 17 miler on Sunday. This gives me a chance to put in a good effort. I also ran 10-21-5 over the weekend which is a decent amount for me. By the end of the 5x600 I was feeling it. I got my HR up to about 93% max for the last two reps. I can't figure out how I did 5x1000m a few weeks ago even at 10 sec/mi slower pace.

Remember I'm going off of a plan that was created for me. I'm still in the learning how to run phase, but I'm getting a better idea what I need to do and how I respond.

Do you take the 800s out too fast? Lose some focus during the middle 200-300m maybe? I find that is the toughest part, the middle. It is easy to go out strong and finish strong, but to hold it in the middle when you know it is going to hurt for a while is tough. I have the same problem in races actually.

Training in the winter is tough. Running in the dark and cold every time is depressing. 80-90% of my runs are done before 7:15am which makes winter running tricky. There are some sidewalks around my home, but not everywhere. Also, they tend to ice up. Throw in hills on ice and you have issues. Of course, I may be getting a healthy dose of this if I have to go to Hyannis to run sub 3:15

 

[BleacherFan]

Do you take the 800s out too fast? Lose some focus during the middle 200-300m maybe? I find that is the toughest part, the middle. It is easy to go out strong and finish strong, but to hold it in the middle when you know it is going to hurt for a while is tough. I have the same problem in races actually.

I looked down at my watch today after 400meters on some and I seem to take them out too conservative. I think it's a mental thing more than anything - I perceive myself trying to save something for the later 800's - one of my 400 splits was 76 and another was 78:

2:30,2:33,2:33,2:33,2:35,2:36 (with 400/rec)

I'm not sure what is wrong but back in the hot June sun I was able to bang out 4x800's quicker:

2:30,2:30,2:30,2:31

and

2:26,2:28,2:28,2:30


Maybe I should go back and try 4x800's and see how I do :c070:

Not having much confidence these days in breaking 16 this Fall......

 

[underhandtofirst]

Did an 8.75mi time trial today.

approx splits: 6:48, 2:32 (.38mi for 6:40pace), 7:08, 7:18, 7:18, 7:23, 7:20, 7:26, 2:51 (.38 for 7:30pace), 6:56
this was from near the 4 mi mark on the baystate course out to mile 8 and back to near mile 4.

Legs didnt have it today, I think going out super fast had something to do with that. Going over the bridge after the 4 mile mark toasted me. My pacing sucks. Finally got it under control and had to fight to stay under my mp (~7:26). The .38 is from just after the bridge to the 5 mile mark.

Time was slower than expected. Good effort though. 17 tomorrow am.

 

[BleacherFan]

Did an 8.75mi time trial today.

approx splits: 6:48, 2:32 (.38mi for 6:40pace), 7:08, 7:18, 7:18, 7:23, 7:20, 7:26, 2:51 (.38 for 7:30pace), 6:56
this was from near the 4 mi mark on the baystate course out to mile 8 and back to near mile 4.

Legs didnt have it today, I think going out super fast had something to do with that. Going over the bridge after the 4 mile mark toasted me. My pacing sucks. Finally got it under control and had to fight to stay under my mp (~7:26). The .38 is from just after the bridge to the 5 mile mark.

Time was slower than expected. Good effort though. 17 tomorrow am.

It was sneaky humid out also - that may have contributed a little bit as well.

 

[BleacherFan]

In a weird twist of events, I ended up running the Wilmington 1/2 today. Going in I was only doing this as a marathon pace tempo run to see how I was with my fitness. I wanted to do 8-10 and then try to push to see what I had.

Luckily I started with a buddy of mine who was looking for the same goal (racing Dublin marathon in a month). We knocked out the following splits:

6:11,6:04,6:04,5:56,5:59,6:16(big hill),6:15,6:16(long?),5:45(short?),6:07,5:54,6:04,6:35(1.1) - 1:19:31 - 6:04 pace

I got to about 10 and the effort was a little tougher grinding out those last few miles but I was never laboring - I felt in control.

3rd overall - confidence booster going into a possible Boston - nice to see the mileage over the last few months is paying off

 

[underhandtofirst]

In a weird twist of events, I ended up running the Wilmington 1/2 today. Going in I was only doing this as a marathon pace tempo run to see how I was with my fitness. I wanted to do 8-10 and then try to push to see what I had.

Luckily I started with a buddy of mine who was looking for the same goal (racing Dublin marathon in a month). We knocked out the following splits:

6:11,6:04,6:04,5:56,5:59,6:16(big hill),6:15,6:16(long?),5:45(short?),6:07,5:54,6:04,6:35(1.1) - 1:19:31 - 6:04 pace

I got to about 10 and the effort was a little tougher grinding out those last few miles but I was never laboring - I felt in control.

3rd overall - confidence booster going into a possible Boston - nice to see the mileage over the last few months is paying off

Nice run. Your pace would have earned you 2nd in the 5k

You've got to be thinking low 2:40s and maybe even sub 2:40 in the right conditions next month. I dont recall you doing many real long runs this summer. Do you have to get a qualifying time for Boston next spring?

 

[BleacherFan]

Nice run. Your pace would have earned you 2nd in the 5k :angry:

You've got to be thinking low 2:40s and maybe even sub 2:40 in the right conditions next month. I dont recall you doing many real long runs this summer. Do you have to get a qualifying time for Boston next spring?

Next month? I thought I mentioned I wasn't running Baystate - not enough miles in me at this point....

I would say the one big thing my training is lacking is a 2 hr weekly run - if I can continue what I've been doing and getting one in twice a month I might be OK.

I definitely think I can go sub 2:40 at this point but anything can happen in 3 hours

 

[underhandtofirst]

Next month? I thought I mentioned I wasn't running Baystate - not enough miles in me at this point....

I would say the one big thing my training is lacking is a 2 hr weekly run - if I can continue what I've been doing and getting one in twice a month I might be OK.

I definitely think I can go sub 2:40 at this point but anything can happen in 3 hours :angry:

I misread your post thinking you decided to run Dublin in a month. The same goal must have been time related not race related.

 

[BleacherFan]

I misread your post thinking you decided to run Dublin in a month. The same goal must have been time related not race related.

Sorry about the confusion - I would hit the wall so hard it would hurt right now - Yes, we were both shooting for 6:0X for miles and it helped since he had a nice garmin

Happy with my training so far - right now, I am hoping I can sneak in a 5k on November 2nd and depending on my fitness the Portsmouth 1/2 the next week.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

While on vacation, my friend and I decided to see how fast I could run a mile:

1:26
1:31
1:30
1:24

Total: 5:51.

Also, this was in Albuquerque, elevation 5,400 feet or so. My normal elevation being 0 feet.

I couldn't breathe right for about an hour after and I was coughing like I'd just taken my first ever bong hit, but it was fun in retrospect.

 

[underhandtofirst]

While on vacation, my friend and I decided to see how fast I could run a mile:

1:26
1:31
1:30
1:24

Total: 5:51.

Also, this was in Albuquerque, elevation 5,400 feet or so. My normal elevation being 0 feet.

I couldn't breathe right for about an hour after and I was coughing like I'd just taken my first ever bong hit, but it was fun in retrospect.

Pretty good stuff. Equates to a 20:16 5k or 3:17:34 marathon Yes, I know there's a million disclaimers on the marathon prediction. In any case, that's a good effort. I assume you did a decent warmup to prepare. Nice splits as well.
I have to think you can blow away that 5k time you ran a few weeks ago.

 

[underhandtofirst]

The countdown is on, just under 2 weeks to go. I'm feel pretty good and looking forward to getting stronger in the next 10-12 days as I taper.

Sunday was my first run of over 13 miles where I took a day off the previous day in about 3 months. My goal was to go sub 8 on average. I started in the 8:30 range for the first 2 miles then started going 8:00 pace (+/- 5 secs) for the next 9 or so. My legs felt a little tight, but not tired so I starting picking it up a bit to around 7:45 pace for a couple miles. This was still very comfortable. The last 2.5 was run at about 7:10 min pace but still didnt feel flat out which was a good sign.

Total was 16.34 in 2:09:37 for 7:56 pace. Very pleased with the result and the fact that it wasnt a full out effort.

I went to the Sox game last night so I switched my Tues run to Monday night before the game since I wasnt going to get much sleep. Turned in 6.5 at around 7:50 average pace, that finished in the 7:40 range. My legs felt good after Sunday and even today which is a good sign that the training is paying off. I'm trying to keep up the intensity, but cutting down on the workout length. Tomorrow is 8 miles with 3x1 mile at 5k pace.

Goal for the next couple weeks is to make good use of the DVR and try to get to bed at a reasonable hour. The Angels series I was going to bed at 2am which is a good way to turn in a sub optimal time.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

Looking good, UTF. I remember some tough decisions last year balancing Sox with the marathon, and I think I ended up missing most of the middle games of the ALCS. I've got the BAA half marathon on Sunday, that might be tough with the 8:00pm game start on Saturday.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I've made the call to train and therefore race without using powergels or anything like that. I stick with Gatorade only during all workouts. I have a water bottle holder with a 20 oz bottle in one of those belts on any run over 40 mins and all runs where the dew point is above 65 or so. Occasionally I may go 50 mins without water, but that's usually because I forgot it. On any run over 17 miles I plan my route to hit a store to refill my gatorade bottle around the 13-14 mile mark. This comes out to 10oz per hour which isnt enough, but as slower training paces it hasnt hurt me. During a race I'll drink at every aid station for races longer than a half marathon.

My first two marathons I took a gel at 60 mins then every 40 or so thereafter. I had training using a similar plan, although last year I used them less during training. This year I didnt use them at all. My stomach isnt sensitive so I'm still leaving the door open to using them, but most likely I'll go without.

I've done some calculations and I'm pretty sure gatorade alone will give me enough calories to last the race if I do normal carbo loading (something I have to do bettter). There are aid stations every 2 miles or so which should be every 15 mins if I'm on schedule. If I can take in 4 oz every time which is about 25 calories and 7g of carbs. That's 16 oz of fluid , 100 cals and 28g of carbs per hour. Keep in mind I dont eat before any training run, so I'm used to doing 20 miles (3 hours) on whatever I ate the day before plus whatever gatorade I drink during the run.

I'm interested to see if anyone else has gone through a similar thought process and what the results were.

 

[BleacherFan]

I've made the call to train and therefore race without using powergels or anything like that. I stick with Gatorade only during all workouts. I have a water bottle holder with a 20 oz bottle in one of those belts on any run over 40 mins and all runs where the dew point is above 65 or so. Occasionally I may go 50 mins without water, but that's usually because I forgot it. On any run over 17 miles I plan my route to hit a store to refill my gatorade bottle around the 13-14 mile mark. This comes out to 10oz per hour which isnt enough, but as slower training paces it hasnt hurt me. During a race I'll drink at every aid station for races longer than a half marathon.

My first two marathons I took a gel at 60 mins then every 40 or so thereafter. I had training using a similar plan, although last year I used them less during training. This year I didnt use them at all. My stomach isnt sensitive so I'm still leaving the door open to using them, but most likely I'll go without.

I've done some calculations and I'm pretty sure gatorade alone will give me enough calories to last the race if I do normal carbo loading (something I have to do bettter). There are aid stations every 2 miles or so which should be every 15 mins if I'm on schedule. If I can take in 4 oz every time which is about 25 calories and 7g of carbs. That's 16 oz of fluid , 100 cals and 28g of carbs per hour. Keep in mind I dont eat before any training run, so I'm used to doing 20 miles (3 hours) on whatever I ate the day before plus whatever gatorade I drink during the run.

I'm interested to see if anyone else has gone through a similar thought process and what the results were.

I think you're ready to race and now you're just extra nervous thinking about every little thing

Take the gatorade and the gu and you should be fine.....

I'll be bagging 25 miles this week - I hate busy work weeks!

 

[underhandtofirst]

Good luck to Steve tomorrow! Hopefully Josh and the Sox can get out to a quick 10-0 lead to allow him to get some rest.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

2008 BAA Half Marathon
13.28 miles, 1:45:25, 7:56 pace.

Mile 1: 8:50
Mile 2: 8:12
Mile 3: 8:12
Mile 4: 8:00
Mile 5: 7:59
Mile 6: 8:09
Mile 7: 8:08 (water)
Mile 8: 7:34
Mile 9: 7:41
Mile 10: 7:43
Mile 11: 7:42 (water)
Mile 12: 7:31
Mile 13: 7:45
Mile 13.28: 6:47

Conditions were absolutely perfect. Started at 8am, very cool, dry, clear. I had it in my head to aim for 8:00, but I didn't really think I'd get it (in May I did 8:23). I tried to pace myself and do negative splits, particularly keeping my breathing nice and easy. At some point I realized I had a shot at 8:00, so I planned to try and maintain my average around 8:15, and then pick it up around mile 9 when I took my gel. I was at about 8:05 when I took that gel. I didn't start breathing heavily until I picked it up after the last water stop, and then not really hard until the last half mile. That damn left hamstring started twitching again, though not badly, with about two miles left to go, which is all that I felt was holding me back.





....holy shit!

 

[amh03]

Damn! I wish I'd checked this thread yesterday...I was there this morning, Steve and would have at least tried to snap a photo or two of you! Congratulations on your time - that's amazing!! It was a gorgeous morning.

 

[underhandtofirst]

2008 BAA Half Marathon
13.28 miles, 1:45:25, 7:56 pace.

Steve, outstanding run! Based on those splits I have to think you can go lower still. That's impressive to record those splits late in the race. Did you use a HR monitor?

I went for a 12mi run this morning around 6am (after 3 hrs sleep, thanks Red Sox) and was thinking about how it was a great day for your race.

What's next for you?

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

It helped that most of the second half was flat or downhill. It's a really nice course actually.

I think the next thing is yes, to start wearing my HR monitor and train by that. I gotta find some way to strengthen my hamstrings too. They've always been an issue - I've never been able to touch my toes, for instance.

Next race is Paddy's 3m in Newton next weekend, then nothing until next year.

I was there this morning, Steve and would have at least tried to snap a photo or two of you!

That's okay, I always look goofy and stoned in all my race photos anyway (or so I'm told). They had lots of people taking official shots, and I managed to smile for most of them. My finish photos should be interesting - that final hundred yards was messed up - you go from asphalt to a wooden ramp to uneven grass and then dirt. I was all over the place.

 

[BleacherFan]

It helped that most of the second half was flat or downhill. It's a really nice course actually.

I think the next thing is yes, to start wearing my HR monitor and train by that. I gotta find some way to strengthen my hamstrings too. They've always been an issue - I've never been able to touch my toes, for instance.

Next race is Paddy's 3m in Newton next weekend, then nothing until next year.
That's okay, I always look goofy and stoned in all my race photos anyway (or so I'm told). They had lots of people taking official shots, and I managed to smile for most of them. My finish photos should be interesting - that final hundred yards was messed up - you go from asphalt to a wooden ramp to uneven grass and then dirt. I was all over the place.

Nice run Steve - I always hated that course for some reason - maybe because I wasn't 100% either time I ran it. It is beautiful though...

I went for a 12mi run this morning around 6am

Getting antsy yet? :barf:

For me, I had a horrible week of training so I needed to kick start my week with a good workout:

5mile warmup @6:28 pace
3.5 tempo @ 5:45 pace
2.1 mile "cooldown" @ 6:06 pace

Legs felt great throughout the whole run and the perfect temps helped

 

[underhandtofirst]

Getting antsy yet? :lol:

A little bit, got little discomfort here and there during runs so I dont know what to feel.

The weather report looks nice and cool for the weekend. I'm feeling a little down on my chances of doing 3:15 now. I'm doing training runs over the same courses as a I did a month ago at the same pace, but higher heart rate. I think some may have to do with the fact that I've actually gained weight over the last month (~3 lbs). My goal of 170 is gone, I'm at 176 which means I'm costing myself 6-9 seconds per mile. What a waste.

That said I think I can run sub 3:20 which would be really nice. If I can do that I might consider doing Hyannis in February, but I might need a break.

 

[BleacherFan]

A little bit, got little discomfort here and there during runs so I dont know what to feel.

Par for the course - it's easy to say 'I'm going to stay relaxed' during a taper but it's not something most people can do easily.

The weather report looks nice and cool for the weekend. I'm feeling a little down on my chances of doing 3:15 now. I'm doing training runs over the same courses as a I did a month ago at the same pace, but higher heart rate. I think some may have to do with the fact that I've actually gained weight over the last month (~3 lbs). My goal of 170 is gone, I'm at 176 which means I'm costing myself 6-9 seconds per mile. What a waste.

Try to keep an empty mind - a lot of people have terrible confidence going into a race. I was talking about this with one of my buddies last week- he estimates that he actually felt good going into a race TWICE in his 10 year running career.