The 2015 NBA Finals Game Thread AKA Battle Of The Australian Institute Of Sport

[radsoxfan]

Thanks for that HRB. So he's like Nique with the Celtics. A putrid shell of his former self.

Any insight on Steph Curry's ball handling and passing? Is he really as lacking in those areas as these finals have shown?

 
HRB may have his own insights, but I'll give you my unsolicited ones.  Curry is the best ball handler in the league.  Anyone thinking that is a weakness can't possibly have watched much of the NBA the past couple of seasons. The ball is on a string at all times…. his ball handling is one of the keys that allows him to get off so many 3s even when defenders know it's coming.
 
His passing is also well above average.  Great court vision, passes well with both hands, very good at taking advantage of match ups. He averages 8 assists in only 32 min/game, and has an assist rate of 38.6.  He didn't win MVP only because he's a great shooter. 
 
You're misinterpreting the fact that he sometimes makes high risk/high reward plays, for a lack of ball handling and play making skills.  Steph might make some careless plays from time to time, but that small weakness pales in comparison to his passing/ball handling greatness. 

 

[lovegtm]

 
It isn't about losing. It is about his performance in the face of adversity. It's about Budo/Bushido, Gameness, Fighting Spirit, whatever you want to call it. You're basically saying when Rocky lost in Rocky 1, he was just a loser and you didn't think anything of him, he lost. 

This. This series has felt more like watching distance running than basketball (in a good way, if that's possible). The 4th quarters even feel like the final lap of a mile race, with one opponent who has just been sitting on the other's shoulder the whole time then kicking it into high gear and pulling inexorably away.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

A couple of observations.
 
Regarding Curry's passing, radsoxfan is spot on - the stupid passes are indeed a function of his high-wire act which is more often than not spectacular.  And as in some cases its a function of his teammates not being on the same page - one errant pass this evening came when the player setting the pick (I forget whom) didn't roll or got pinned and could not get to the spot.   
 
Regarding Andrew Bogut, HRB made the observation a while back (during the regular season) that he was hurt and I disagreed then.  He was playing fairly well and was very active save for an odd game here or there (such as the one HRB attended).  That said, he hasn't looked right since the Houston series and I tend to agree that something is wrong with the guy.  The way this series has evolved clearly doesn't favor him but the way he has moved of late makes that a good thing for the Warriors.
 
Finally, it cannot be said enough how amazing it is what LeBron is doing with this team.  Their offense is simple and even when he is drawing three defenders, his teammates simply cannot help him out by converting barely contested shots.  There is literally no other player in the NBA who could have dragged this rogues gallery (excepting Tristan Thompson who is amazing around the basket) to these heights.  I've said it before and will say it again - James is the GOAT simply because I do not think MJ could have taken a similar roster so bereft of depth and talent to the penultimate Finals game.  And LeBron is doing it while averaging 45.5 minutes a game.  Its flat out insane.
 
Finally, this series is going seven.  I expect one more monster performance by James at home and if the Warriors get bogged down, we will see another game at Oracle on Friday.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Thanks Dejesus and Dr Rad for your replies. Having admired Curry from afar, and 99% for his shooting exploits, I can definitely see how I've mistaken lack of ball handling and passing skills for bouts of carelessness. This has been one hell of a series. What LeBron is doing is otherworldly. I don't have to like the guy to appreciate that, and as a matter of fact my hatred for him is so irrational (we'll say 90% of it) that it makes me hate him more. He's is almost assuredly going to do or say something that makes it worse. But sweet God and baby Jesus is he good. Hate to admit it but I think he's my #2 GOAT now.

 

[Devizier]

Imagine if the Cavs had Wiggins off the bench -- not winning this series, I don't think, but damn their future would be bright.

 

[slamminsammya]

You mean if they had Wiggins instead of Lebron? 

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Imagine if the Cavs had Wiggins off the bench -- not winning this series, I don't think, but damn their future would be bright.

If the warriors had traded Thompson for Love and the Cavs still had Wiggins, I think the Cavs would have been set up for a multi-title run. The best trades . . . .

 

[CreightonGubanich]

I love Steph Curry and I've been rooting for Golden State to win this series...but as a fan of basketball, I can't take my eyes off LeBron. What he's doing is unbelievable. Not only is he the only Cavs player that can create his own offense, they can't even surround him with shooting and let him run high pick and rolls. Dellavedova is the only decent three point shooter in the rotation, and he's shooting 23% this series. So the offense is looping the ball in to LeBron in the high post and hoping he can make something happen in terrible spacing against a good defensive team. He's like some ungodly combination of Magic Johnson and Hakeem Olajuwon. Meanwhile, he has to guard every position on the floor and clean the glass, all for 45 minutes a night. I've never seen anything like it. 
 
I still think Jordan was the best ever. But LeBron at his best impacts the game in more ways than Jordan could. I think that's the highest compliment I can give him.

 

[Kliq]

The classical equivalent of this series is the 1977 NBA Finals. A great team on its way to its first championship facing off against a team with one superstar who has to do it all. I don't know if Doc could have done it with this Cavs team, but that Sixers team in the finals was not much better.

 

[radsoxfan]

 Dellavedova is the only decent three point shooter in the rotation, and he's shooting 23% this series.
 

 
I agree with most of your post, and Lebron has been great. But the Cavs do still have some decent 3 point shooting.  JR Smith shot 39% on the Cavs in the regular season.  James Jones 36%. Shumpert 34%. Joe Harris was actually good at 37% too, though he isn't getting any PT of course. 
 
Obviously they really miss Kyrie and Love and their ability to spread the floor.  But I wouldn't say Delly is the only decent shooter in the rotation.

 

[coremiller]

The classical equivalent of this series is the 1977 NBA Finals. A great team on its way to its first championship facing off against a team with one superstar who has to do it all. I don't know if Doc could have done it with this Cavs team, but that Sixers team in the finals was not much better.

 
I don't think that's right at all.  The traditional narrative of the 77 Finals was that Portland played great team basketball while Philly had a bunch of extremely talented individuals who didn't mesh well and fought each other for shots and the ball, which is the exact opposite of the current Cavs lineup.  Philly had George McGinnis and Doug Collins as scorers in addition to Erving, all three in their primes, with a young World B. Free on the bench (who would average 29 ppg just two seasons later).  They were loaded -- if anything, that Philly team more closely resembles somebody like the 2013 Thunder.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

There is literally no other player in the NBA who could have dragged this rogues gallery (excepting Tristan Thompson who is amazing around the basket) to these heights.  I've said it before and will say it again - James is the GOAT simply because I do not think MJ could have taken a similar roster so bereft of depth and talent to the penultimate Finals game.  And LeBron is doing it while averaging 45.5 minutes a game.  Its flat out insane.
 

 
Once again:
 
1. Jordan faced much better teams like the 1980s Celtics and Pistons.
 
2. Lebron didn't in fact get the Cavs to the finals, because he did in fact have Kyrie (and Atlanta had more than their share of injuries).
 
Having said that, it's undeniable, he's had had a great series.

 

[johnmd20]

 
Once again:
 
1. Jordan faced much better teams like the 1980s Celtics and Pistons.
 
2. Lebron didn't in fact get the Cavs to the finals, because he did in fact have Kyrie (and Atlanta had more than their share of injuries).
 
Having said that, it's undeniable, he's had had a great series.

 
Hogwash. Golden State is a tremendous team, with the season's MVP leading the way. They are just brutal on offense when they get going. Jordan never beat the 1980's Pistons (or Celtics) and by the time he did beat them in 1991, the team was a shell of itself. In Jordan's first championship, he also beat the Lakers, who were beginning to also slow down.
 
Jordan beat the Portland Trailblazers in 1992. Not quite a dynasty. The Suns in 1993 were pretty good, but the Bulls were ridiculous that year. An amazing team outside of just Jordan. In 1996, 1997, and 1998 the Bulls had unbelievable teams, as well. And they beat the Supersonics, another dynasty, and then the Jazz in 1997 and 1998. The Jazz were really good, with hall of fame players, so props to Jordan there and Jordan was amazing, but he had a ton of backup. Hall of famer kind of backup.
 
Lebron has Delly and JR "who is going to show up today" Smith helping him out. It's not even a close comparison.

 

[CreightonGubanich]

 
I agree with most of your post, and Lebron has been great. But the Cavs do still have some decent 3 point shooting.  JR Smith shot 39% on the Cavs in the regular season.  James Jones 36%. Shumpert 34%. Joe Harris was actually good at 37% too, though he isn't getting any PT of course. 
 
Obviously they really miss Kyrie and Love and their ability to spread the floor.  But I wouldn't say Delly is the only decent shooter in the rotation.

 
You're absolutely right, although Smith has shot the ball pretty terribly this series. Jones has taken 14 total shots. Harris, as you said, hasn't played. Shumpert's shot the ball OK, but is basically a league average three point shooter.
 
My point though was more about Cleveland's offense than the roster. They've spent a big chunk of this series with two space-killing big men on the floor alongside LeBron, and expected him to make things happen. Even when they've gone small, they're not really able to space the floor with great shooting. Cleveland's offense in this series has made the old Mike Brown/LeBron offenses look like the Spurs.

 

[DJnVa]

I don't think the refs will ever call a foul on the Warriors again

 
They've called more on the Warriors in this series than on the Cavs.
 

 

[lars10]

 
Hogwash. Golden State is a tremendous team, with the season's MVP leading the way. They are just brutal on offense when they get going. Jordan never beat the 1980's Pistons (or Celtics) and by the time he did beat them in 1991, the team was a shell of itself. In Jordan's first championship, he also beat the Lakers, who were beginning to also slow down.
 
Jordan beat the Portland Trailblazers in 1992. Not quite a dynasty. The Suns in 1993 were pretty good, but the Bulls were ridiculous that year. An amazing team outside of just Jordan. In 1996, 1997, and 1998 the Bulls had unbelievable teams, as well. And they beat the Supersonics, another dynasty, and then the Jazz in 1997 and 1998. The Jazz were really good, with hall of fame players, so props to Jordan there and Jordan was amazing, but he had a ton of backup. Hall of famer kind of backup.
 
Lebron has Delly and JR "who is going to show up today" Smith helping him out. It's not even a close comparison.

Weren't the Celtics and Pistons in the Eastern Conference?  I don't think that the comparison was to who was in the finals...
 
LeBron (who has played amazing) and the Cavs have faced Boston, Chicago and Atlanta on the way to the finals.  All of them hugely flawed teams...or injured.
LeBron has faced a fairly weak Eastern Conference in general on the way to the finals.  Of course that isn't his fault, but the Eastern conference in the 80s was brutal...and then the Western Conference team in the finals was brutal... and yes GS has been great this year and LeBron's team has been decimated with injuries and he's had to basically do it on his own, but I don't think one can compare the playoffs and teams back then to now.  (Of course the NBA is an entirely different animal now as well)
 
One thing I've been wondering is about LeBron's off arm.  He uses it to create space on almost every possession... but is it an offensive foul?  When he extends it it should be no?  But I can't think of another player that uses it so effectively to the point where he basically is so strong that it's impossible for a defender to get in close.  He also doesn't usually extend it but kind of uses it as a battering ram into the chest of whoever he's being guarded by... without fouling I think.  It's been interesting to watch and I think a subtle way that LeBron has been able to carve out space against any defender.

 

[OCST]

 
 
One thing I've been wondering is about LeBron's off arm.  He uses it to create space on almost every possession... but is it an offensive foul?  When he extends it it should be no?  But I can't think of another player that uses it so effectively to the point where he basically is so strong that it's impossible for a defender to get in close.  He also doesn't usually extend it but kind of uses it as a battering ram into the chest of whoever he's being guarded by... without fouling I think.  It's been interesting to watch and I think a subtle way that LeBron has been able to carve out space against any defender.

 
Others here know lots more about the NBA than I do, but it sure seems like he's fouling when he does this.
 
I'm sure he's not the only guy who does it, but it's more noticeable because he's so strong.
 
FWIW, WRs do this all the time in the NFL and rarely get called for OPI.

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
One thing I've been wondering is about LeBron's off arm.  He uses it to create space on almost every possession... but is it an offensive foul?  When he extends it it should be no?  But I can't think of another player that uses it so effectively to the point where he basically is so strong that it's impossible for a defender to get in close.  He also doesn't usually extend it but kind of uses it as a battering ram into the chest of whoever he's being guarded by... without fouling I think.  It's been interesting to watch and I think a subtle way that LeBron has been able to carve out space against any defender.

And after he does that with his off arm, if he continues to the basket, he lowers his shoulder and smashes into whoever is in his way. Unless that guy is completely stationary, if any foul is called, it's always on the defender. I don't get that that is great basketball. He probably uses his size and strength more than anybody in history except Wilt Chamberlain. I don't know if Wilt got the star officiating James does. If you got it, use it, I guess.
 
In one of his interviews after the game, he was asked how they'd go back home and win game 6. He said something like "I am the greatest player in the world, that's how". Reminded me a little of Rickey Henderson's remark when he was presented with the base he stole to be the all time leader. "Lou Brock was a great base stealer, but today I am the greatest." But Rickey was a lovable goofball. 

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

One thing I've been wondering is about LeBron's off arm.  He uses it to create space on almost every possession... but is it an offensive foul?  When he extends it it should be no?  But I can't think of another player that uses it so effectively to the point where he basically is so strong that it's impossible for a defender to get in close.  He also doesn't usually extend it but kind of uses it as a battering ram into the chest of whoever he's being guarded by... without fouling I think.  It's been interesting to watch and I think a subtle way that LeBron has been able to carve out space against any defender.

I hate this. And like Al said, he also lowers his should and bulldozes. Never called.
Then, he'll play beautiful basketball - fade-aways, one footers, jump shots, great passes. He doesn't NEED the battering ram / offensive foul side of his game... but they let him, so he takes it.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Having said that, it's undeniable, he's had had a great series.

 
How is it not deniable? Offensively, this is the worst points per 100 possessions postseason of his career (eFG% as well), with a roster on par with his last two in Cleveland prior to bolting for Miami. I don't think this is in the top 10 of the best series for Lebron.

 

[luckiestman]

I hate this. And like Al said, he also lowers his should and bulldozes. Never called.
Then, he'll play beautiful basketball - fade-aways, one footers, jump shots, great passes. He doesn't NEED the battering ram / offensive foul side of his game... but they let him, so he takes it.

 
 
This came up repeatedly with Gorman and Scal. Gorman always said what you are saying and Scal would say that a foul is never called when an offensive player initiates contact (in the way you are describing). Scal is actually great in the booth for someone like me (never played hoops past cyo). 
 
This seems to be a league thing not a Lebron thing. I feel like Lebron is getting hammered and not getting any calls. 

 

[Nick Kaufman]

 
Hogwash. Golden State is a tremendous team, with the season's MVP leading the way. They are just brutal on offense when they get going. Jordan never beat the 1980's Pistons (or Celtics) and by the time he did beat them in 1991, the team was a shell of itself. In Jordan's first championship, he also beat the Lakers, who were beginning to also slow down.
 
Jordan beat the Portland Trailblazers in 1992. Not quite a dynasty. The Suns in 1993 were pretty good, but the Bulls were ridiculous that year. An amazing team outside of just Jordan. In 1996, 1997, and 1998 the Bulls had unbelievable teams, as well. And they beat the Supersonics, another dynasty, and then the Jazz in 1997 and 1998. The Jazz were really good, with hall of fame players, so props to Jordan there and Jordan was amazing, but he had a ton of backup. Hall of famer kind of backup.
 
Lebron has Delly and JR "who is going to show up today" Smith helping him out. It's not even a close comparison.

 
You are replying to something I haven't said.
 
The initial proposition is that Lebron managed to get a crappy team to the Eastern Conference finals unlike Jordan. My answer is that when Jordan had crappy team mates -before Pippen et al came along- he was facing a loaded Eastern Conference unlike Lebron. Lebron didn't get them to the finals alone to begin with because he did have Kyrie for most of the series.

 

[lars10]

And after he does that with his off arm, if he continues to the basket, he lowers his shoulder and smashes into whoever is in his way. Unless that guy is completely stationary, if any foul is called, it's always on the defender. I don't get that that is great basketball. He probably uses his size and strength more than anybody in history except Wilt Chamberlain. I don't know if Wilt got the star officiating James does. If you got it, use it, I guess.
 
In one of his interviews after the game, he was asked how they'd go back home and win game 6. He said something like "I am the greatest player in the world, that's how". Reminded me a little of Rickey Henderson's remark when he was presented with the base he stole to be the all time leader. "Lou Brock was a great base stealer, but today I am the greatest." But Rickey was a lovable goofball. 

 
One thing I've noticed is that when LeBron plays unselfish and SMART on any team he is on that his teams are really hard to beat.  Even this current set of Cavs he could almost do it...and this team has little or no talent beyond him Thompson and Mozgov.
 
BUT when he tries to play hero ball...like shooting from 3 with nobody under the basket or going in wildly without any kind of his typical patience..that's when his teams lose or start getting behind.
 
It's when he lets his ego go unchecked when he sees anyone else getting the spotlight that he has a problem...like shooting threes in the fourth trying to match Curry.  It's not his game and it shouldn't be..he should be going to the basket almost every possession.  With the amount of time he's putting in on the floor his shots in the fourth (and the rest of the Cavs) are almost always going to be short...so get in close.  But it's almost like he has to match any other great player stride for stride...even when they're on his team.
 
And regarding LeBron's off arm..it's not when he's out of control and he's smashing people with it..it's when he uses it as a spacer almost.  I don't think it's a foul as long as he doesn't extend it...problem is is that he often just barely extends it...so it's almost impossible to call an offensive foul...and almost makes the defender have to jump into him rather than straight up.  It's similar to something Delly does..where he always keeps his hands on the offensive players hip..even when he's past him.  He pushed Rose a few times that way but was hardly ever called for the foul.  It's super subtle, but if you've ever played hoops it's super effective..especially if the other player is in the air.  All it takes is a few inches and your shot is off.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

And after he does that with his off arm, if he continues to the basket, he lowers his shoulder and smashes into whoever is in his way. Unless that guy is completely stationary, if any foul is called, it's always on the defender. I don't get that that is great basketball. He probably uses his size and strength more than anybody in history except Wilt Chamberlain. I don't know if Wilt got the star officiating James does. If you got it, use it, I guess.
 
In one of his interviews after the game, he was asked how they'd go back home and win game 6. He said something like "I am the greatest player in the world, that's how". Reminded me a little of Rickey Henderson's remark when he was presented with the base he stole to be the all time leader. "Lou Brock was a great base stealer, but today I am the greatest." But Rickey was a lovable goofball. 

Did you watch last night? LeBron got absolutely no calls last night. ( if you argue that he fouls every time he drives, that's a different issue)

 

[Kliq]

 
I don't think that's right at all.  The traditional narrative of the 77 Finals was that Portland played great team basketball while Philly had a bunch of extremely talented individuals who didn't mesh well and fought each other for shots and the ball, which is the exact opposite of the current Cavs lineup.  Philly had George McGinnis and Doug Collins as scorers in addition to Erving, all three in their primes, with a young World B. Free on the bench (who would average 29 ppg just two seasons later).  They were loaded -- if anything, that Philly team more closely resembles somebody like the 2013 Thunder.

 
Eh, Doug Collins was good in that series (averaged 19 a game) but McGinnis only averaged 13 ppg and Free averaged 7 on 29% shooting. Is it really that much different than what LeBron is getting from Mozgov, Thompson, Smith, Shumpert and Dellavadova? Dr. J averaged 30-7-5 with nearly 3 steals during the series. I just think if we are looking for comparisions between the two teams, I think this series resembles that one with the Warriors as the Trail Blazers and Cleveland as the 76ers.

 

[coremiller]

 
One thing I've noticed is that when LeBron plays unselfish and SMART on any team he is on that his teams are really hard to beat.  Even this current set of Cavs he could almost do it...and this team has little or no talent beyond him Thompson and Mozgov.
 
BUT when he tries to play hero ball...like shooting from 3 with nobody under the basket or going in wildly without any kind of his typical patience..that's when his teams lose or start getting behind.
 
It's when he lets his ego go unchecked when he sees anyone else getting the spotlight that he has a problem...like shooting threes in the fourth trying to match Curry.  It's not his game and it shouldn't be..he should be going to the basket almost every possession.  With the amount of time he's putting in on the floor his shots in the fourth (and the rest of the Cavs) are almost always going to be short...so get in close.  But it's almost like he has to match any other great player stride for stride...even when they're on his team.

 
This is silly.  LeBron started settling for jumpers in the fourth quarter because a) he wasn't getting any calls on drives, b) he was exhausted, and driving requires more energy, and c) he was shooting pretty well from distance -- he[SIZE=14.4444446563721px] was 3/4 on 3s in the fourth quarter and only 2/8 on 2s.  [/SIZE]There's no evidence for the narrative that he cost them the game by getting into some hero ball/ego battle with Curry.

 

[Devizier]

Pierce totally used his off arm in the same way as Lebron did. He also would bull to the basket in the same way. In many ways, Lebron is an uberPierce.

 

[coremiller]

 
Eh, Doug Collins was good in that series (averaged 19 a game) but McGinnis only averaged 13 ppg and Free averaged 7 on 29% shooting. Is it really that much different than what LeBron is getting from Mozgov, Thompson, Smith, Shumpert and Dellavadova? Dr. J averaged 30-7-5 with nearly 3 steals during the series. I just think if we are looking for comparisions between the two teams, I think this series resembles that one with the Warriors as the Trail Blazers and Cleveland as the 76ers.

 
Well to me there's a big difference between that Philly team, who had other star players that significantly underperformed their talent level, and this year's Cavs, who with their injuries just don't have a whole lot of talent to begin with outside of Lebron.  Collins was a #1 overall draft pick and a four-time all-star.  McGinnis won the ABA scoring title in 1974-75, shared the ABA MVP with Doc that year, was First Team All-NBA in 76 and 2nd team in 77, and averaged over 20 ppg for his career.  Free had averaged 16 ppg off the bench that year.  The Cavs without Irving and Love don't have anything like that talent on offense.
 
EDIT: these Cavs are actually much more similar to that Portland team, which was so heavily dependent on Walton.  Walton put up a ridiculous 18.5 pts/19 rbs/5.2 asts/3.7 blocks in the finals, including 20/23/7/8 in the clinching game 6.  When he hurt his foot the next year, Portland lost in the first round.

 

[Kliq]

 
Well to me there's a big difference between that Philly team, who had other star players that significantly underperformed their talent level, and this year's Cavs, who with their injuries just don't have a whole lot of talent to begin with outside of Lebron.  Collins was a #1 overall draft pick and a four-time all-star.  McGinnis won the ABA scoring title in 1974-75, shared the ABA MVP with Doc that year, was First Team All-NBA in 76 and 2nd team in 77, and averaged over 20 ppg for his career.  Free had averaged 16 ppg off the bench that year.  The Cavs without Irving and Love don't have anything like that talent on offense.

 
You are naming accomplishments that happened during their career. I am only talking about what they did in the finals. The Sixers were probably better than this Cavs team in the series, but just because McGinnis did some stuff in the ABA doesn't change the fact that he was pretty mediocre in the 77 finals.

 

[coremiller]

 
You are naming accomplishments that happened during their career. I am only talking about what they did in the finals. The Sixers were probably better than this Cavs team in the series, but just because McGinnis did some stuff in the ABA doesn't change the fact that he was pretty mediocre in the 77 finals.

 
He didn't just do some stuff in the ABA, he was  All-NBA first team in 76 and 2nd team in 77.  He was widely considered one of the 10-15 best players in the league, and Collins was probably in the top 20 (he made the all-star team four years in a row from 76-79).  When Philly signed Erving out of the ABA, that era Sixers team was considered THE star-laden superteam of its era, like the Heat after LeBron signed there.  There really aren't any narrative similarities to this year's Cavs team.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

 
One thing I've noticed is that when LeBron plays unselfish and SMART on any team he is on that his teams are really hard to beat.  Even this current set of Cavs he could almost do it...and this team has little or no talent beyond him Thompson and Mozgov.
 
BUT when he tries to play hero ball...like shooting from 3 with nobody under the basket or going in wildly without any kind of his typical patience..that's when his teams lose or start getting behind.
 
It's when he lets his ego go unchecked when he sees anyone else getting the spotlight that he has a problem...like shooting threes in the fourth trying to match Curry.  It's not his game and it shouldn't be..he should be going to the basket almost every possession.  With the amount of time he's putting in on the floor his shots in the fourth (and the rest of the Cavs) are almost always going to be short...so get in close.  But it's almost like he has to match any other great player stride for stride...even when they're on his team.
 
And regarding LeBron's off arm..it's not when he's out of control and he's smashing people with it..it's when he uses it as a spacer almost.  I don't think it's a foul as long as he doesn't extend it...problem is is that he often just barely extends it...so it's almost impossible to call an offensive foul...and almost makes the defender have to jump into him rather than straight up.  It's similar to something Delly does..where he always keeps his hands on the offensive players hip..even when he's past him.  He pushed Rose a few times that way but was hardly ever called for the foul.  It's super subtle, but if you've ever played hoops it's super effective..especially if the other player is in the air.  All it takes is a few inches and your shot is off.

 
And here I was thinking even the most anti-LeBron folks were going to be unable to blame this series on LeBron. This is some truly creative, determined work. You should be proud. 

 

[lars10]

 
And here I was thinking even the most anti-LeBron folks were going to be unable to blame this series on LeBron. This is some truly creative, determined work. You should be proud. 

FFS.. How many caveats do I have to throw in to say LeBron is getting no help before you post the same exact tired fucking post???

I mean there's no way he should be in this series.. He's been other worldly... And when he goes down the lane with conviction.. And paces himself he's basically impossible to stop... Anyway your act is really tired...I've read it for years.

 

[Kliq]

 
He didn't just do some stuff in the ABA, he was  All-NBA first team in 76 and 2nd team in 77.  He was widely considered one of the 10-15 best players in the league, and Collins was probably in the top 20 (he made the all-star team four years in a row from 76-79).  When Philly signed Erving out of the ABA, that era Sixers team was considered THE star-laden superteam of its era, like the Heat after LeBron signed there.  There really aren't any narrative similarities to this year's Cavs team.

 
Read the first sentence again, I'm comparing their performances in the finals, where Doc didn't get a ton of help and was beaten by a better overall team.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

FFS.. How many caveats do I have to throw in to say LeBron is getting no help before you post the same exact tired fucking post???

I mean there's no way he should be in this series.. He's been other worldly... And when he goes down the lane with conviction.. And paces himself he's basically impossible to stop... Anyway your act is really tired...I've read it for years.

 
I didn't read your post as anti-LeBron.  I have been gushing about the guy all series but he isn't above criticism or, at least, questioning parts of his game as otherworldly as it mostly is.    He does indeed push off and he even hooks his arm around his defender in order to push off.  Harden does this to some degree as do other players (such as Pierce).   And if the refs aren't calling it, players absolutely should use this in their repertoire.  
 
As a side note, can we stop with the terms "LeBron-hater" or "anti-LeBron" - its way overdone and its being used in a witch-hunt fashion (it reminds me of a V&N thread).  
 
I mean there are clearly people here who dislike him for various reasons and that is their prerogative.  There are also anti-Curry and anti-JR Smith folks here as well and they, too, have their reasons (though the JR Smith hate eludes me because he is as close to a cartoon character as there is in today's NBA).  Its ok to dislike LeBron and even it its for stupid reasons such as his perceived theatrics.  On the other hand, its also ok to respect the hell out of what he is doing, even if some of it is a result of the fact that he gets to bend/flout some of the rules of the game.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

FFS.. How many caveats do I have to throw in to say LeBron is getting no help before you post the same exact tired fucking post???

I mean there's no way he should be in this series.. He's been other worldly... And when he goes down the lane with conviction.. And paces himself he's basically impossible to stop... Anyway your act is really tired...I've read it for years.

Yep, everybody here is out of original things to say and that's never more clear than when the subject is LeBron James.

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Read the first sentence again, I'm comparing their performances in the finals, where Doc didn't get a ton of help and was beaten by a better overall team.

 
 

The classical equivalent of this series is the 1977 NBA Finals. A great team on its way to its first championship facing off against a team with one superstar who has to do it all. I don't know if Doc could have done it with this Cavs team, but that Sixers team in the finals was not much better.
 

 
 
Just to put up your initial post…. You seem to be changing your argument to fit a new hypothesis once your initial one was shown to be flawed.
 
If a team has a lot of good players but some of them play badly and only one plays good (or they just can't mesh together as a unit), that's a very different scenario than a team that just doesn't have any other good players. Appears to be some goalpost shifting here on your part.
 
Your "classical scenario" would have been more similar to this years finals if Love and Kyrie were healthy and played poorly (or with no continuity), forcing Lebron to shoulder most of the load on his own.  

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

And after he does that with his off arm, if he continues to the basket, he lowers his shoulder and smashes into whoever is in his way. Unless that guy is completely stationary, if any foul is called, it's always on the defender. I don't get that that is great basketball. He probably uses his size and strength more than anybody in history except Wilt Chamberlain. I don't know if Wilt got the star officiating James does. If you got it, use it, I guess.

When LeBron goes inside, he plays like Shaq used to play.

And sure, it's probably a foul from a technical POV but who's going to foul out LeBron in he first quarter? So the refs wait for the really blatant ones and the result of that is that LeBron gets a bunny.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

On my phone so its difficult to link but if you aren't reading Zach Lowe about these NBA finals you are missing out. He may not just be the best NBA analyst on the planet but the best sports analyst period. He has absolutely crushed it this offseason.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 He has absolutely crushed it this offseason.

 
I'd wait until tonight's game to get over to proclaim today as part of the offseason.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
I'd wait until tonight's game to get over to proclaim today as part of the offseason.

Sorry. Not being presumptuous - just mistyped in my haste.

 

[OCST]

On my phone so its difficult to link but if you aren't reading Zach Lowe about these NBA finals you are missing out. He may not just be the best NBA analyst on the planet but the best sports analyst period. He has absolutely crushed it this offseason.

 
I agree.  I know relatively little about the X's and O's of basketball and reading Lowe has been an education.

 

[rembrat]

That rendition was awesome.

 

[Drocca]

That human being is everything awesome. 

 

[Al Zarilla]

I feel confident because I'm the best player in the world. Go to hell.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Who did the anthem?  I missed it.

 

[Al Zarilla]

They called him! I do not believe it!

 

[johnmd20]

Another call goes against Lebron. Cray cray.

 

[johnmd20]

They called him! I do not believe it!

 
Been happening all series.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Who did the anthem? I missed it.

I'm glad you didn't say that you didn't see it.

This girl:

http://www.newsnet5.com/sports/basketball/cavaliers/marlana-vanhoose-blows-crowd-away-with-national-anthem-at-quciken-loan-arena-in-cleveland

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
Been happening all series.

But he does that bull rush 10 - 15 times a game that don't get called.