You don't have his email?Has Cora given much of an answer to why he didn’t pinch hit for Vazquez? (I haven’t seen all that much TV or other media coverage since the game ended.)
You don't have his email?Has Cora given much of an answer to why he didn’t pinch hit for Vazquez? (I haven’t seen all that much TV or other media coverage since the game ended.)
Not hindsight in my case. Argued for it at the time. Not vehemently, though. I had no problem with Kimbrel coming in. Didn’t for a second think he’d crack up... until he did. Just thought Sale was cruising and another 10-20 pitches would do no harm.Arguing that Sale should have been left in for the 9th is 1000000% hindsight. You have a three run lead AND it wasn't do or die. If you lose, you still have to play on Thursday and Sale is the guy you want starting that game. Frankly, it was already a bit of a risk using him in the 8th knowing that there's still a chance you might need him for Game 5. At least at 12-13 pitches, it's the equivalent of a side-session he'd likely have thrown between starts anyway. There's a reason Cora used him there against 8-9-1 and not in the 6th against 2-3-4...less stress and less chance of getting into trouble that could balloon his pitch count.
A buddy of mine once cc:ed a party invite to epstein.theo@redsox.com (or something similar) as a joke to the other invitees. He received a polite reply from Theo asking to be unsubscribed from his list...You don't have his email?
Good catch.Agreed, Holt should have hit. For all the reasons described. A no-brainer. Surprised that I have not seen yet the bigger "miss " by Cora and Staff during the ninth inning. Why was Judge being held on by Pearce with no out and Gregorius at bat ? In the hope that they would turn a 3-6-3 DP ? No way. You play back - way back vs. a lefty - at first in that situation. He can steal if he wants to. You need to protect against the groundball in the hole ( that could easily be fielded by the first baseman ). Voila'. There it was........ Big difference between one out and a runner on 2nd. than 1st. and 2nd. no out. A big faux pas, I will submit. ( am an old first baseman and a collegiate coach for many years ).
JTB made a funny. Tee hee.You don't have his email?
Ironically, perhaps, I had a Yankees fan at the Can next to me who was arguing just your point when they brought Kimbrel in.Not hindsight in my case. Argued for it at the time. Not vehemently, though. I had no problem with Kimbrel coming in. Didn’t for a second think he’d crack up... until he did. Just thought Sale was cruising and another 10-20 pitches would do no harm.
Agree with every word in this post.Criticizing Alex Cora for not pitch-hitting for Vasquez is a nitpick, IMO. And it is not taking away anything from the players to acknowledge that Cora managed this series like a seasoned veteran and not a rookie like Boone clearly did. Loved the quick hook on Price and him bringing in Porcello and Sale in relief roles. I hope he learns from last night and doesn't feel the need to automatically award Kimbrel the ninth inning, especially if he gets creative with the starters and has someone pitching the eighth and is clearly effective.
Something Cora learned the hard way as last year's Astros blew the Series because of Giles's woes.If the Sox are going to win the WS, they will need a closer, almost definitely.
Blew as in won?Something Cora learned the hard way as last year's Astros blew the Series because of Giles's woes.
Maybe this was mentioned upthread but Kimbrel is better with regular work. Perhaps Cora should have given him an inning in the 16-1 blowout win the night before. He hadn’t pitched for almost four days before the save that almost killed us all.If the Sox are going to win the WS, they will need a closer, almost definitely. Closer by Committee in the playoffs is a tough way to live. Unless Kimbrel melts down next time out, he's that guy. And before last night, there wasn't a lot of reason to worry that he would shit the bed.
We’re deep in the post-game analysis hindsight weeds here, but (1) how would leaving Sale in for a batter or two/three in the ninth have meant that Kimbrel “the closer” would not have been available later? Are you saying that leaving Sale in would have hurt Kimbrel’s feelings and made him less effective later? I’d buy that argument if it was anyone other than Sale we were talking about....the main thing I was trying to get across is that Cora had two excellent reasons for not sticking with Sale. One, that Kimbrel is his closer and he's going to need one going forward.
Two, and even more important, Sale was slated to start on Thursday if things went badly the rest of the way, and on Saturday night if they did not. Getting greedy on Tuesday night could have affected his availability...
Not exactly hurt feelings. I just think it's a bad message for Kimbrel to be passed over in the 9th. Not death to Kimbrel's effectiveness, but still not optimal. And while two more batters would not have doomed Sale, given that he's already a little sketchy health wise, I was not anxious for him to get ANY more mileage ahead of a date with the Yankees on Thursday night or one with Houston on Saturday night. None of this is binary or fall off the cliff stuff. I just thought it was the right move to go with Kimbrel there, for those reasons...and because Kimbrel is usually pretty damned good at his job.We’re deep in the post-game analysis hindsight weeds here, but (1) how would leaving Sale in for a batter or two/three in the ninth have meant that Kimbrel “the closer” would not have been available later? Are you saying that leaving Sale in would have hurt Kimbrel’s feelings and made him less effective later? I’d buy that argument if it was anyone other than Sale we were talking about.
Re (2) Sale threw 13 pitches in the 8th. How many pitches does he throw in a mid-start side-session? Cora could have had Kimbrel warming up and brought him in if Sale’s pitch count became a problem. It’d have made some sense to let Sale pitch to Judge (who hit a HR off Kimbrel in Game 1) and Gregorius (a lefty.) Kimbrel was obviously afraid of Judge and wouldn’t throw him a strike.
FWIW, although it occurred to me at the time that Sale could-maybe-should pitch the 9th, I didn’t think for a moment that it’d actually happen, nor am arguing that Cora made a mistake. The go-with-your-closer-that’s-what-he’s there-for logic makes sense. But bringing Sale in to face Judge and Gregorius, at least, would have made sense too.
I had heard somewhere yesterday that Cora got the go ahead from the Sox medical staff that Sale could pitch an inning of relief. With the caveat that this could be a game of telephone, I interpret that to mean that Sale was allowed to pitch one inning and no more, regardless of the circumstances. I can't really blame them for being cautious to some degree with Sale; throwing to a couple of extra batters in the 9th would not have been worth it had it meant that Sale woke up this morning experiencing "more than his usual soreness" and we're seeing Brian Johnson's name being added to the ALCS roster.We’re deep in the post-game analysis hindsight weeds here, but (1) how would leaving Sale in for a batter or two/three in the ninth have meant that Kimbrel “the closer” would not have been available later? Are you saying that leaving Sale in would have hurt Kimbrel’s feelings and made him less effective later? I’d buy that argument if it was anyone other than Sale we were talking about.
Re (2) Sale threw 13 pitches in the 8th. How many pitches does he throw in a mid-start side-session? Cora could have had Kimbrel warming up and brought him in if Sale’s pitch count became a problem. It’d have made some sense to let Sale pitch to Judge (who hit a HR off Kimbrel in Game 1) and Gregorius (a lefty.) Kimbrel was obviously afraid of Judge and wouldn’t throw him a strike.
FWIW, although it occurred to me at the time that Sale could-maybe-should pitch the 9th, I didn’t think for a moment that it’d actually happen, nor am arguing that Cora made a mistake. The go-with-your-closer-that’s-what-he’s there-for logic makes sense. But bringing Sale in to face Judge and Gregorius, at least, would have made sense too.
Especially if the lead-off batter has recently taken Kimbrel yard and the second batter is a lefty.I would like to think that in a similar situation, clinching game, against Houston or hopefully, the WS, we see sale at least start the 9th.
Kimbrel's career playoff numbers: 12.1 ip, 7 h, 6 r, 5 er, 6 bb, 19 k, 3.65 era, 1.05 whip, 13.9 k/9
Kimbrel's last three playoff games:
1.0 ip, 3 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 1 k (1 hbp)
1.1 ip, 1 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 3 k
1.0 ip, 1 h, 2 r, 2 er, 2 bb, 1 k (1 hbp)
TOT: 3.1 ip, 5 h, 4 r, 4 er, 3 bb, 5 k, 10.80 era, 2.40 whip, 13.5 k/9
Having seen the Judge HR mentioned a couple of times, it should be noted that Kimbrel struck out 3 out of 5 Yankees in that key 4 out appearance in Game 1. And Judge's homer was really a great piece of hitting more than anything Kimbrel did wrong. Sometimes it happens, and projecting anything from that one at bat is a borderline Cafardo (or Eric Van) -like take.Especially if the lead-off batter has recently taken Kimbrel yard and the second batter is a lefty.
Even with the HR in Game 1, I don't see why they would be afraid to let Kimbrel face Judge with the bases empty and a three run lead. The worst he could do is hit a HR and you have a two run lead with the bases empty. Big deal.Especially if the lead-off batter has recently taken Kimbrel yard and the second batter is a lefty.
Didn’t say “afraid” to let Kimbrel face Judge. Or that Kimbrel needing saving from Gregorius. Said Sale was cruising, threw just 13 pitches and wanted to stay in for the 9th and that letting him face Judge and Gregorius, at least, assuming his pitch count stayed low, would not have been crazy.Even with the HR in Game 1, I don't see why they would be afraid to let Kimbrel face Judge with the bases empty and a three run lead. The worst he could do is hit a HR and you have a two run lead with the bases empty. Big deal.
Kimbrel allowed a .153/.284/.347 line to lefties this year and .164/.258/.254 to them in his career. No reason to save him from Didi Gregorius.
Cora seemed to indicate in the postgame interviews that Sale purposely held off on throwing his regular side session (on Monday?) so that he could be available.I thought the tv announcers said that was not Sales' side session as he had already thrown it.
Even if they didn't say it, you don't throw your side session at 10:30pm two days before your start
I have to disagree. Has he ever been as bad as just 7 out of 28 pitches in the strike zone? He always does throw a lot of those wild ass curves of his that start off looking like a strike and guys swing at them because they don't have much time. Those are a good thing. But 7 pitches in the zone out of 28? He's had a small number of these disasters or near disasters with the Sox, but I think he always bounces back in the next game.I thought the 2nd pitch of his 28 pitch outing - a 1-0 good curveball that Angel blew - kinda led to things unraveling. Didi also dribbled a grounder through a hole. That said after 1 out he did walk Voit on 4 pitches as well, nothing that close, and then hit Walker right away.
He was not sharp but I don't think he was as bad as the final statline. In game 1 he was pretty much nails. He is what he is this season, a heart attack but still elite closer.
And in a blowout (either way) he was coming in to pitch an inning to get his work in?Cora seemed to indicate in the postgame interviews that Sale purposely held off on throwing his regular side session (on Monday?) so that he could be available.
You were not. It seems weird to blow through that many players to get a pinch hitter up -- Vaz, MM, and (in this hypo Holt). I said at the time I would have run Swihart (which would leave them without a catcher, so I get the risk). Or he could have just hit Holt to begin with.Since this is also the de facto “second guessing the manager” thread, when Moreland hits in the 8th, was I the only one screaming for Holt to pinch run? Tacking on an extra run seemed more important to me than saving the bench. And it turns out he probably would have.
Yes. Absolutely. It's the small things that win you championships. I think Cora has made some very questionable moves in this series. Not playing Devers in the first game potentially cost us that game. Continuing to play Kinsler..not keeping Kimbrel sharp with regular work.Since this is also the de facto “second guessing the manager” thread, when Moreland hits in the 8th, was I the only one screaming for Holt to pinch run? Tacking on an extra run seemed more important to me than saving the bench. And it turns out he probably would have.
I was fine having Moreland hit. But letting Leon run was pretty ridiculous. TBS showed Moreland mocking Sandy, on third after Mookie’s hit, saying even he would have scored. Put Holt in to run and then Leon in to catch. It burns an extra player off the bench, but the extra run would have been nice.You were not. It seems weird to blow through that many players to get a pinch hitter up -- Vaz, MM, and (in this hypo Holt). I said at the time I would have run Swihart (which would leave them without a catcher, so I get the risk). Or he could have just hit Holt to begin with.
Kimbrel is is clearly a better pitcher the more he's used. He needs to pitch more, not less.Kimbrel has given up at least one run in each of his three postseason appearances this year. At a certain point, do you have to start thinking about a three-man rotation of Sale/Price/Eovaldi, with Porcello pitching the eighth and ninth?
No. Uh uh. Never.Kimbrel has given up at least one run in each of his three postseason appearances this year. At a certain point, do you have to start thinking about a three-man rotation of Sale/Price/Eovaldi, with Porcello pitching the eighth and ninth?