The curious case of Alejandro De Aza

Buzzkill Pauley

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 30, 2006
10,569
InsideTheParker said:
It's really marvelous ( I.e., something to marvel at) the way almost every thread devolves into a discussion of the struggles of Jackie Bradley, Jr.
It's the nature of genius to be the center of discussion...especially when flawed genius. Joe Kelly and JBJ are two sides of a very tantalizing coin: Bradley's all-world defense but his putrid bat; Kelly's high 90's fastball but his inability to harness it effectively.

If either one could fix his flaws, the benefit to the Sox would be tremendous. If both could, look out. But the reality is, maybe neither does, or at least not with the Sox.

So instead you have to plan to bring a journeyman like DeAza back on short money.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,400
Buzzkill Pauley said:
It's the nature of genius to be the center of discussion...especially when flawed genius. Joe Kelly and JBJ are two sides of a very tantalizing coin: Bradley's all-world defense but his putrid bat; Kelly's high 90's fastball but his inability to harness it effectively.

If either one could fix his flaws, the benefit to the Sox would be tremendous. If both could, look out. But the reality is, maybe neither does, or at least not with the Sox.

So instead you have to plan to bring a journeyman like DeAza back on short money.
It would be interesting to see what The Dutch Nephews of Ed Vande Berg had to say about Randy Johnson when he was posting WHIPs of 1.5 and 1.6 early in his days with Seattle. No in not saying Kelly is Unit but back then Unit wasn't Unit either. He was god awe full!!
 

Buzzkill Pauley

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 30, 2006
10,569
HomeRunBaker said:
It would be interesting to see what The Dutch Nephews of Ed Vande Berg had to say about Randy Johnson when he was posting WHIPs of 1.5 and 1.6 early in his days with Seattle. No in not saying Kelly is Unit but back then Unit wasn't Unit either. He was god awe full!!
Actually, I grew up in WA, and at the very least all of us little league kids absolutely loved him, even with all the walks and hit batsmen. He was, much like Junior and ARod, someone you could dream big dreams on.

When the frame of reference for your team's "ace" is otherwise Mark Langston, you know your expectations are placed a little differently than where fans of most other teams might put them.
 

Toe Nash

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2005
5,638
02130
RJ's problem early on was basically control but his K rate was always elite which portended well for his future. And obviously being so tall it was understandable that he might take a while to keep his mechanics together.
 
Early in RJ's career K's were at a pretty low level so his 7.5+ K/9 was actually in the top 3 or 4 in the league. In his first full year, 1989, he had 7.3 K/9 between the NL and AL, which would have been 5th in the AL if he had qualified. In 1990 he was 6th in the AL and in 1991 he shot up to 10.2 K/9 which was second to Ryan. In 1992 he led the league in K/9. In 1993 he halved his BB rate and the rest was history.
 
We are in a historic era for strikeouts, yet Kelly is near the bottom of the league in missing bats. Inexperience or not there's not much to project here (and he's not going to be able to use that excuse much longer).
 

Philip Jeff Frye

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2001
10,298
HomeRunBaker said:
It would be interesting to see what The Dutch Nephews of Ed Vande Berg had to say about Randy Johnson when he was posting WHIPs of 1.5 and 1.6 early in his days with Seattle. No in not saying Kelly is Unit but back then Unit wasn't Unit either. He was god awe full!!
Not picking on you specifically, but the wishcasting about our youngsters (particularly the more disappointing ones) is out of control lately.  Randy Johnson was a late bloomer so maybe Joe Kelly will be as well!  Andrew Miller became a great reliever, let's move Kelly to the pen!  JBJ can't hit, but neither could Dwight Evans at first!  Wade Boggs was better hitter in the majors than in the minors, so Travis Shaw can be too!
 
Honestly, one might just as well say, "Julio Franco was an effective hitter in his mid-40s, so I think Big Papi can be too!" or "Why are people worried about long-term contracts for pitchers in their 30s?  Jamie Moyer pitched until he was 50!"
 

In my lifetime

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
959
Connecticut
One of 3 things needs to be done with De Aza.
Either sign him for next yr if he is willing and he becomes part of the #3/4 OF rotation (as well as insurance for Bradley/Castillo) or  trade him to a contending team to get either a prospect or package him to get the RS under the LT threshold (there isn't much left on the roster in available money savings except if it is possible to wipe out their 3.9 annual payment as part of the Punto deal), so next yr they would be 1st time offenders.  It just makes no sense to keep him for the remainder of the year, when he is likely to be elsewhere next yr.
 

ishmael

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 3, 2006
640
In my lifetime said:
One of 3 things needs to be done with De Aza.
Either sign him for next yr if he is willing and he becomes part of the #3/4 OF rotation (as well as insurance for Bradley/Castillo) or  trade him to a contending team to get either a prospect or package him to get the RS under the LT threshold (there isn't much left on the roster in available money savings except if it is possible to wipe out their 3.9 annual payment as part of the Punto deal), so next yr they would be 1st time offenders.  It just makes no sense to keep him for the remainder of the year, when he is likely to be elsewhere next yr.
If he was claimed and they pulled him back, then he can't be traded. Right?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,955
Maine
ishmael said:
If he was claimed and they pulled him back, then he can't be traded. Right?
 
Except to the team that claimed him, I believe, but that's only within 24 hours after the waiver period ends.
 
Since Rosenthal reported yesterday that the Sox and Dodgers were supposedly talking trade for De Aza, either they won the claim on him or he cleared waivers altogether.
 
In my lifetime said:
One of 3 things needs to be done with De Aza.
Either sign him for next yr if he is willing and he becomes part of the #3/4 OF rotation (as well as insurance for Bradley/Castillo) or  trade him to a contending team to get either a prospect or package him to get the RS under the LT threshold (there isn't much left on the roster in available money savings except if it is possible to wipe out their 3.9 annual payment as part of the Punto deal), so next yr they would be 1st time offenders.  It just makes no sense to keep him for the remainder of the year, when he is likely to be elsewhere next yr.
 
De Aza alone isn't going to give the Red Sox much in the way of payroll relief.  They're only on the hook for $1M of his total salary, and at this point, they'd probably be saving less than half of that were they to trade him.  The only reasons to move him, really, are to get something with future value back and/or to free up playing time for Castillo/JBJ.  It appears he's already been demoted in favor of those two, so unless they can get something worthwhile back, there's no real need to trade him at all.
 

kieckeredinthehead

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
8,635
nattysez said:
 
Giants got bad news on Pence today, as he tried to do some hitting and his oblique felt lousy.  Hopefully this made them increase their offer for De Aza.
 
Edit:  Sox got Luis Ysla for him.  Ysla is a 23 year-old lefty in A ball with a 6+ ERA.
K/9 is very similar to Joe Gunkel. Whatever, I still would've preferred to see more JBJ and Castillo a month earlier but all's well that ends well.
 

Pilgrim

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2006
2,407
Jamaica Plain
Sort of interesting.  Lefty who throws in the mid 90s.  Over 1 k/ip this year.  He is old for high A but it looks like he signed at 20.  A relief prospect, I'm guessing.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Ep2ia3qWA&feature=youtu.be
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Perfectly cromulent return for a nothing piece. Hard throwers should be targeted as such. Take the flier and maybe he pans out as a reliever we envy other teams for having down the road someday.
 

jscola85

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
1,305
I am always in favor of dealing noncore pieces for power arms. Ysla has struggled with command issues this year but his strikeout numbers and velocity are worth betting on. For a one month rental that's a nice piece.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
So, in the end, they traded Joe Gunkel for Luis Ysla.
 
Maybe. Unless its not the end of the Gunkel trail.
 
Like trading Dustin Richardson for Ed. Rodriguez.
 

shaggydog2000

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2007
11,606
Ysla was the Giants 17th best prospect according to Kiley over at Fangraphs:
 
17. Luis Ysla, LHP Video: Ysla signed out of Venezuela in 2012 as a 20-year-old and the 6’1 lefty has performed well in his two pro seasons. He’ll head to High-A next year as a 23-year-old and could move fast if he’s moved to the pen, which is his likely long-term fit. Ysla sits 91-95 with life and has hit 97 mph, mixing in a solid average two-plane slider. There’s a chance he develops more starter traits since it’s still early in his career, but the delivery has some effort and the changeup lags behind (though it flashes average at times), so relief looks likely at this point.
 
This was during spring, so it doesn't factor in his off year in A+.  
 

jscola85

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
1,305
JimD said:
So, in the end, they traded Joe Gunkel for Luis Ysla.
 
No, it was Joe Gunkel for Ysla plus 178 PAs from de Aza that produced 1.4 WAR.  It was a lost season but AdA was a very useful piece for this team.
 

Hee Sox Choi

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 27, 2006
6,134
Ysla has a .433 BABIP in Single-A this year.  10.73 K/9.  Pretty interesting lottery ticket.  
 
8.81 ERA as a starter in 9 starts and a 4.50 ERA as a reliever.  60 Ks in 44 IP post All-Star Break.  
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,955
Maine
SoxinSeattle said:
Weird that the sox paid freight or just the cost of a lottery ticket?
 
According to Bradford, the Sox are paying $630K of his remaining $960K.  And when you figure in that Baltimore was already paying $4M of his $5M contract, they essentially paid $670K for his three months of service.  With the going $/WAR rate, they came out well ahead for a guy who produced 1.4 WAR in his short time in a Red Sox uniform.  Adding in a lottery ticket seems like gravy.
 

dynomite

Member
SoSH Member
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Perfectly cromulent return for a nothing piece. Hard throwers should be targeted as such. Take the flier and maybe he pans out as a reliever we envy other teams for having down the road someday.
 
 
jscola85 said:
I am always in favor of dealing noncore pieces for power arms. Ysla has struggled with command issues this year but his strikeout numbers and velocity are worth betting on. For a one month rental that's a nice piece.
 
Couldn't agree more.
 
The comical Red Sox bullpen this August -- capped off by Machi closing out last night with Breslow warming in the pen -- has highlighted the extent to which the organization lacks power arms.  This is the exact type of player the team should be targeting; someone who won't help this season or even next, but has the stuff to be an important piece down the road.
 

syoo8

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 2, 2007
1,106
New York, NY
Was this a decision that Cherington made, or is DDski already in the driver's seat?  Is this Dombrowski's first transaction as Red Sox 'GM'?