Phragle said:I liked the way they dropped the OLBs more often (29 coverages) than average and rushed the ILBs more often (24 rushes) than average. It made the defense less predictable before the snap and increased the amount of things Manning had to read after the snap.
Edit: And what is the media/fan consensus of how Brady played? I feel like that interception that hit Amendola's hands is making Brady's great game seem more like just a good game. I thought he was impressive yesterday as he was in any game this year.
Phragle said:I liked the way they dropped the OLBs more often (29 coverages) than average and rushed the ILBs more often (24 rushes) than average. It made the defense less predictable before the snap and increased the amount of things Manning had to read after the snap.
Edit: And what is the media/fan consensus of how Brady played? I feel like that interception that hit Amendola's hands is making Brady's great game seem more like just a good game. I thought he was impressive yesterday as he was in any game this year.
rodderick said:
The first deep ball to LaFell was a miss. It was still catchable, and not overthrown by much, but that's 7 with a perfect throw. The INT was tipped, but also a bad decision to throw high over the middle with the rush bearing down on him like that.
Those were the two blemishes on a great day by Brady. Thought he made some very good throws in tight windows and moved around in the pocket better than I've seen in a while. Just goes to show that the whole "seeing ghosts" and "being scared of the rush" stuff was a product of him not truly trusting the O-Line/his primary reads. He's very comfortable in the offense, he's not shying away from throwing the ball to anyone, it's just been awesome to watch.
loshjott said:
The Gronk-tacular catch was a badly thrown ball. If he was throwing that to a human being and not Gronk it's an incomplete or pick because there were 2 or 3 DBs in the area.
Dogman2 said:The ball was slightly tipped before it his Amendola's hands. That tip was just enough to change the trajectory.
rodderick said:The first deep ball to LaFell was a miss. It was still catchable, and not overthrown by much, but that's 7 with a perfect throw. The INT was tipped, but also a bad decision to throw high over the middle with the rush bearing down on him like that.
Yeah, PFF graded Collins with 5 hurries on just 12 rushes, which is awesome. Hightower had 3 on 12 rushes himself, mostly from the interior. That was 8 of the team's 14 total hurries.Phragle said:I liked the way they dropped the OLBs more often (29 coverages) than average and rushed the ILBs more often (24 rushes) than average. It made the defense less predictable before the snap and increased the amount of things Manning had to read after the snap.
Yeah, I thought Brady was terrific, and his handling of the rush was just as impressive as his throwing. I don't think there are many QBs who would have been sacked just once yesterday.Phragle said:Edit: And what is the media/fan consensus of how Brady played? I feel like that interception that hit Amendola's hands is making Brady's great game seem more like just a good game. I thought he was impressive yesterday as he was in any game this year.
tims4wins said:Not sure where else to put this. Lafell had a couple of bad plays last night, but consider this: after not catching a pass the first two games, he now has 36 catches for 514 yards and 5 TDs on the season, accumulated in 7 games. Projected to a 16 game season, that comes to 82 catches for 1,175 yards and 11 TDs. He may be the best #2 WR they have had since Moss-Welker in 2009.
Im glad that you mentioned this, because I think there's a difference between the offensive line being much improved from the dumpster fire it was earlier in the year, which it clearly is, and being objectively good. They've been good enough on the interior not to completely ruin the game and Brady is doing a brilliant job IMO.Super Nomario said:Yeah, PFF graded Collins with 5 hurries on just 12 rushes, which is awesome. Hightower had 3 on 12 rushes himself, mostly from the interior. That was 8 of the team's 14 total hurries.
Yeah, I thought Brady was terrific, and his handling of the rush was just as impressive as his throwing. I don't think there are many QBs who would have been sacked just once yesterday.
Super Nomario said:Yeah, PFF graded Collins with 5 hurries on just 12 rushes, which is awesome. Hightower had 3 on 12 rushes himself, mostly from the interior. That was 8 of the team's 14 total hurries.
The bolded part is what I have noticed the last couple of weeks. It seems as if Brady has worked on this aspect of his game and is more willing to move through a hole in the rush toward the line of scrimmage and then make the throw. He has always had the ability to slide right and left but he seems to be keeping plays alive longer with more movement.rodderick said:
The first deep ball to LaFell was a miss. It was still catchable, and not overthrown by much, but that's 7 with a perfect throw. The INT was tipped, but also a bad decision to throw high over the middle with the rush bearing down on him like that.
Those were the two blemishes on a great day by Brady. Thought he made some very good throws in tight windows and moved around in the pocket better than I've seen in a while. Just goes to show that the whole "seeing ghosts" and "being scared of the rush" stuff was a product of him not truly trusting the O-Line/his primary reads. He's very comfortable in the offense, he's not shying away from throwing the ball to anyone, it's just been awesome to watch.
From the Denver ESPN Rapid ReactionHarry Hooper said:
What to make of this: was there something exploitable about the Denver OL, or is it that Mayo and the departed Spikes are just too slow to get to the QB with the inside rush?
Stock watch: It's clear opponents don't think the Denver offensive line can protect Manning in the middle of the field. The Patriots sacked Manning with a three-man rush, much like the New York Jets did twice on three-man rushes the past month. Defenses are increasingly coming after center Manny Ramirez as well as guards Orlando Franklin and Louis Vasquez. The Patriots sent linebacker Jamie Collins into the middle plenty through the night.
I think this was a reason for optimism early in the year - the standard was not the OL being "good," just "not a dumpster fire." Avoiding sacks is one of the things that separates the top QBs (and one of the few things Manning is objectively better than Brady at - Brady's very good, Manning is Marino-level unsackable) from the just good QBs - I view it as almost like walks were before all the Moneyball stuff.Stitch01 said:Im glad that you mentioned this, because I think there's a difference between the offensive line being much improved from the dumpster fire it was earlier in the year, which it clearly is, and being objectively good. They've been good enough on the interior not to completely ruin the game and Brady is doing a brilliant job IMO.
I think it was two things. One is desperation - without Chandler Jones, they couldn't just line up with a vanilla rush and expect to win one-on-one battles, so they had to try to scheme pressure. The second thing is something they saw that was exploitable, but I'm not sure whether it's the OL, the protection schemes, the RB usage or ability in blitz pickup, or Manning. The other thing is that you have to be able to cover, too - Manning is going to get rid of the ball so quickly that you're not going to sack him, but you might be able to get him to throw earlier than he wants to or in a smaller window. There were times last night when the rush got a little heat on Manning and he made a ridiculous throw into a tight window. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap.Harry Hooper said:
What to make of this: was there something exploitable about the Denver OL, or is it that Mayo and the departed Spikes are just too slow to get to the QB with the inside rush?
I believe Manning chewed out Hillman a few times for failure in this area. I realize the Broncos offense is as efficient as ever, but the loss of Moreno has kind of gone under the radar. Aside from the production, he also was very good in pass protection. Again, hasn't really hurt them but it showed up a little last night.Super Nomario said:I think it was two things. One is desperation - without Chandler Jones, they couldn't just line up with a vanilla rush and expect to win one-on-one battles, so they had to try to scheme pressure. The second thing is something they saw that was exploitable, but I'm not sure whether it's the OL, the protection schemes, the RB usage or ability in blitz pickup, or Manning. The other thing is that you have to be able to cover, too - Manning is going to get rid of the ball so quickly that you're not going to sack him, but you might be able to get him to throw earlier than he wants to or in a smaller window. There were times last night when the rush got a little heat on Manning and he made a ridiculous throw into a tight window. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap.
Super Nomario said:I think it was two things. One is desperation - without Chandler Jones, they couldn't just line up with a vanilla rush and expect to win one-on-one battles, so they had to try to scheme pressure.
This is a really good point regarding Ayers. Having played as the strong-side linebacker in a 4-3 defense, he's a different player than Jones. Maybe not the same caliber pass rusher, but he is used to dropping into coverage whereas Jones was basically your designated rusher.Phragle said:
I think that's one part of it. The other is that you could argue all four LBs are good at rushing and covering. Mayo wasn't a great pass rusher so you wouldn't do it with him, and Jones hasn't proved he can cover well so you wouldn't ask him to drop ~ 25% of passing snaps. With Nink - Collins - Hightower - Ayers you can rush or cover from every position effectively.
Yes Ayers really limits Jones' need to play 3-4 OLB and could limit CJ's snaps a bit to keep him fresh for passing downsnazz45 said:This is a really good point regarding Ayers. Having played as the strong-side linebacker in a 4-3 defense, he's a different player than Jones. Maybe not the same caliber pass rusher, but he is used to dropping into coverage whereas Jones was basically your designated rusher.
Ayers is a well rounded linebacker/hybird DE. Hopefully, Jones will come back and then you have a nice trio (with Ninkovich) at this position which was thin coming into the year.
To this point, PFF killed Hillman for pass pro, grading him a -3.5 and charting him with 3 hurries allowed in just 8 pass blocking snaps. Then again, you have to question a scheme that counts on a smallish RB to pick up guys like Hightower and Collins who are big LBs.nazz45 said:I believe Manning chewed out Hillman a few times for failure in this area. I realize the Broncos offense is as efficient as ever, but the loss of Moreno has kind of gone under the radar. Aside from the production, he also was very good in pass protection. Again, hasn't really hurt them but it showed up a little last night.
I think Mayo is kind of underrated as a blitzer (and Spikes had his moments, too), but Collins and Hightower have borderline DE skill sets that add another dimension in this area, that's for sure.Phragle said:
I think that's one part of it. The other is that you could argue all four LBs are good at rushing and covering. Mayo wasn't a great pass rusher so you wouldn't do it with him, and Jones hasn't proved he can cover well so you wouldn't ask him to drop ~ 25% of passing snaps. With Nink - Collins - Hightower - Ayers you can rush or cover from every position effectively.
The problem is: how do you use Chandler Jones when he gets back? The 3-4 gives them more options to scheme pressure and lets them capitalize on the blitzing ability of Hightower and Collins and Nink's skill set, but Jones is really a pure 4-3 DE. He hasn't looked as capable as a 3-4 DE or as a 3-4 OLB, but the rest of the personnel seems better suited to the 3-4.RedOctober3829 said:Yes Ayers really limits Jones' need to play 3-4 OLB and could limit CJ's snaps a bit to keep him fresh for passing downs
Super Nomario said:I think Mayo is kind of underrated as a blitzer (and Spikes had his moments, too), but Collins and Hightower have borderline DE skill sets that add another dimension in this area, that's for sure.
Super Nomario said:The problem is: how do you use Chandler Jones when he gets back? The 3-4 gives them more options to scheme pressure and lets them capitalize on the blitzing ability of Hightower and Collins and Nink's skill set, but Jones is really a pure 4-3 DE. He hasn't looked as capable as a 3-4 DE or as a 3-4 OLB, but the rest of the personnel seems better suited to the 3-4.
rodderick said:
... Thought he made some very good throws in tight windows and moved around in the pocket better than I've seen in a while. Just goes to show that the whole "seeing ghosts" and "being scared of the rush" stuff was a product of him not truly trusting the O-Line/his primary reads. He's very comfortable in the offense, he's not shying away from throwing the ball to anyone, it's just been awesome to watch.
Just a bit outside said:The bolded part is what I have noticed the last couple of weeks. It seems as if Brady has worked on this aspect of his game and is more willing to move through a hole in the rush toward the line of scrimmage and then make the throw. He has always had the ability to slide right and left but he seems to be keeping plays alive longer with more movement.
Cool stuff. He definitely seems to be more confident the past few weeks. I saw Brady flinch and pull the ball down once or twice on Sun even so.Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:According to the PFW guys, Brady's movement in the pocket was a major point of emphasis in the off-season/training camp. Some assumed McDaniels, et al, were drilling this for the QBs as a nod to Jimmy G's skill set, possibly part of a "Jimmy package" (our British viewers will excuse our lack of delicacy and less than stellar word choice there), but...
...in a press conference at some point McD mentioned something about increased pocket mobility for ALL of the quarterbacks was something that they failed to sufficiently draw upon last year (and presumably before that). Brady has worked diligently on this aspect of his game and it is clearly paying dividends, especially of late.
EDIT: because I constantly fuck up.
Was Ayers around the QB much other than the one 4th and 6 sack? That play appeared to be a stunt that Denver did not pick up, so it doesn't really tell us that much, does it? I'm encouraged by your statement because you seem to know a lot more than I do about football, but I just don't remember seeing Ayers pressuring Manning other than the sack.Phragle said:
Ayers looks like he could be the pass-rushing depth guy many of us wanted this offseason, but he's not good enough to keep Jones off the field a lot.
Yes, I believe Chandler Jones will be back this year but it will be more than the 6 weeks they say. If he's back for the playoffs then that's all I care about.BigSoxFan said:Are we sure Jones will even be back this year? I get very nervous about indefinite timelines. Maybe I'm just having Rosevelt Colvin flashbacks.
If Belichick felt that there was no or little chance Jones would be back for the playoffs, he would be on IR right now. He's not, which means that at least the medical and training staff believe there's a chance he'll be back in that 6 week window.RedOctober3829 said:Yes, I believe Chandler Jones will be back this year but it will be more than the 6 weeks they say. If he's back for the playoffs then that's all I care about.
I'm not saying he's out for the season. You're right in that they know he'll be back at some time this season. I just don't think he'll be back in that 6 week window. Tom Curran reported that the injury was more serious than what was let on earlier. If he can come back for the 3 division games in December and work his way back to as close to 100% as he can get for January then I'd be OK. I don't count on him coming back for this stretch of games ending with at SD. If he's back for Miami, good.lexrageorge said:If Belichick felt that there was no or little chance Jones would be back for the playoffs, he would be on IR right now. He's not, which means that at least the medical and training staff believe there's a chance he'll be back in that 6 week window.
DaubachmanTurnerOD said:Was Ayers around the QB much other than the one 4th and 6 sack? That play appeared to be a stunt that Denver did not pick up, so it doesn't really tell us that much, does it? I'm encouraged by your statement because you seem to know a lot more than I do about football, but I just don't remember seeing Ayers pressuring Manning other than the sack.
RedOctober3829 said:A 4-3 with Jones and Ayers on the same side could work very well in generating pressure. OL would have to choose who to block if both rush and would for a back or TE to help on that side.
I don't think Brady was the first there but he was there. When Edelman was on EEI earlier this week they talked about it. Edelman said he didn't really even think of it until a while later and he asked Tom if he ran out onto the field after the TD. Brady confirmed he did and said he had to congratulate "his guy" or something like that.DaubachmanTurnerOD said:Random aside: Did anyone else notice that Brady appeared to be the first one to congratulate Edelman after the punt return TD? It looked like he was, but I can't figure out how he got there so soon since Edelman was way over in the far corner of the end zone. I do love the image of Brady sprinting down the sideline trying to keep up with Edelman.
Unsung hero. Did he win practice player of the week?snowmanny said:And Jimmy G!