The Game Ball Thread: Wk 14 vs Browns - LOL WUT???

[SeoulSoxFan]

Unbelievable win. Rules are rules. Game balls:

• Brady: shitty 1st half, but gets the last drive to win
• Ghost: another 50+ FG, and a beauty of an onside-kick
• Vereen: now the best offensive player not named Brady. 12 catches for 153 yards. 
• Zebras!!..uh, I mean Boyce!!

But this was a game with plenty goats:

• Porous protection: OL played crap all game, esp. Svitek and Solder who got abused and beaten like they got snow boots on
• Cammed in: Gordon is Gordon, but coaching staff not accounting for Cameron along for critical plays (including the late killer TD)
• Return of the dropsies: 5 drops in the first half, by pretty much all parties involved
• Losing the TO battle: 0-2

And a grand FU to the injury gods: they hate the Pats this year. The list of talent not on the field for most of the year is astounding: Wilfork, Mayo, Kelly, oh screw it. It's depressing.
 
With Cinci winning big vs. Indy, Pats still dearly hanging on to the #2 spot. 

 

[Kliq]

I'd be on board for a Ghost for MVP push.

 

[m0ckduck]

nm

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Whoever that f*** DB on Cleveland was that hit a defenseless Edelman gets the game ball. Thanks for the 15 yards.

 

[Toe Nash]

I think the refs are goats once again. The PI helped us at the end but there were lots of missed illegal contact penalties all over the field for both teams. And the quick whistle that negated a Hightower forced fumble (and probable Pats return TD) in the first series changed everything about the game. Who knows how things go if the Pats are playing with an early lead.
 
Up:
Gostkowski: Not only was that just about a perfect kick but Ghost was right there even though he wasn't the one who eventually recovered it. Usually you see onside tries kicked to either side instead of right down the middle, but if the kicker has good enough hands that's probably a better way to do it as you can control the bounces better.
Vereen: Any time you can get a LB covering him you should go his way.
 
Up and down
Brady: Pretty off in the first half and the fumble was really bad (usually he just goes down in that situation so I have no idea why he thought he was Roethlisberger there) but again he made the plays he needed to at the end. The chances are way lower with no Gronk but as long as Brady is there I don't think you can ever count this team out.
 
Down:
Defensive gameplan: Not sure why single-covering Gordon without safety help happened so much. Talib did an admirable job but it burned them on the one TD play. Also did a poor job with Cameron as noted.

 

[axx]

By my count that's 3 miracle victories this year.

 

[Stitch01]

By my count that's 3 miracle victories this year.

And two absolute nut punch controversial losses. It's been as crazy a season as possible

 

[sodenj5]

Game ball to the refs.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

And two absolute nut punch controversial losses. It's been as crazy a season as possible

 
And the freaking monsoon that just poured in as Brady was driving downfield vs. Bengals. The ball slipped out of TB's hand on that last throw/INT.

 

[Turrable]

I have no idea how Cleveland fans do it.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Game ball to the refs.

 

Just a sad, sad, Dolphins fan.

 

[JMDurron]

A horseshoe.
 
57-yard FG with 1 second left lands in the end zone.  LOL WUT indeed.
 
I think this balances out the Carolina game bad call, neither of the end zone penalties in this game seemed legit to me.  
 
Overlooked Game Ball: Ninkovich in run support.  After that opening drive, Cleveland wasn't running the ball with any authority, against a vulnerable defense.  

 

[Stitch01]

Game ball to the refs.

Yeah....no. The PI call was bad but...no

Brady was insane on the last two drives

 

[snowmanny]

Game ball to the refs.

If he's not interfered with he catches that ball for a touchdown.

Then the Browns have the ball a little sooner and probably gain a few mire yards and kick the field goal.

 

[Byrdbrain]

If he's not interfered with he catches that ball for a touchdown.

Then the Browns have the ball a little sooner and probably gain a few mire yards and kick the field goal.

I don't think he catches it if he isn't touched(I don't think if was interference but there was a little contact) but I'm pretty confident that Brady scores and the Pats win with much less time on the clock so the Browns don't get the field goal try.
That comment is of course 100% conjecture but that's all you have when going into an alternate reality.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Game ball to the refs.

 
Yeah, I wouldn't have put money down on the Pats getting 30 yards if that flag wasn't thrown.
 
Moreover, they called the Gordon fumble dead as forward-progress, which was also a debatable, highly important call (at least a 3 point swing), and they flat-out missed an illegal contact on Amendola on a key third down from midfield.
 
lolboohoo, fuck off.  The Pats ripped the Browns' hearts out of their chests and ate them in those final minutes.  

 

[Toe Nash]

If he's not interfered with he catches that ball for a touchdown.

Then the Browns have the ball a little sooner and probably gain a few mire yards and kick the field goal.

Or if he misses, they had 2nd and ten on the CLE 30 with 35 seconds left and they weren't stopped on the previous drive...I still like their chances. 
 
That said, PIs calls are often just really bad, but they will even out over time. It sucks and if I could fix anything about the NFL I would fix the reffing of PI, but as it is you can't really complain much on either side.
 
If you aren't a Pats fan you say the refs gave them the game, if you are you say that the Browns shouldn't have put the refs in the position to make a game-changing call given their big lead late. And the opposite would be the case in the Pats / Panthers game. If you're objective, you'll say that the Pats have won and lost one game on poor PI calls, and also note there were lots of PI calls or non-calls that didn't come at the end of games that affected them as well.
 
This is different from the Jets game where they pulled out a new rule that no one knew about and was questionably explained to the coaches, and not even applied consistently within the game. That is a case where I think complaining about the refs is totally justified.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Just to throw another name out there, Jamie Collins was crazy active...and when he hit people, they went down

I'm guessing BB focused on taking away the run, which led to Norsam's big day.

 

[Devizier]

That onside kick was probably one of the best-executed that I've seen. I can't see the replay, but it looked like the Browns left a huge soft spot in the middle of the field, and Gostkowski exploited it perfectly.

 

[crystalline]

Game ball to the refs.

You're kidding me. The Pats were screwed left right and center by the refs in quarters 1 to 3. The fumble blown dead was a 6 point swing (no CLE FG and the Pats in FG territory). The Talib phantom holding where Gordon threw him down by the facemask was a 7 point swing.
If those calls went the other way it's a blowout by the 4th.

And it seemed like they knew it. The refs blew the grounding call on Campbell almost as a giveback. I will also grant you that the Pats should have been called for a personal foul hitting Campbell on his slide.

The NFL has got to fix the way the refs essentially decide 75% of games on judgment calls. What will get us there?

 

[Super Nomario]

That onside kick was probably one of the best-executed that I've seen. I can't see the replay, but it looked like the Browns left a huge soft spot in the middle of the field, and Gostkowski exploited it perfectly.

He also hit two FGs, including a 50-yarder, and did his normal excellent work on kickoffs.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Hightower played a lot better today. He was more active today than in last few weeks.

 

[Super Nomario]

Hightower played a lot better today. He was more active today than in last few weeks.

I thought so, too.
 
The run D doesn't look great statistically - 25 carries for 108 yards - but 34 of those yards were on the end-around by Gordon and 21 on a Campbell scramble. On designed RB running plays, they allowed something like 2.3 YPC.

 

[crystalline]

Brady's long ball to Vereen down the left sideline was sweet.
Brady recognized he was one on one with a linebacker and Vereen just blew his doors off. Throw was perfectly placed.

 

[Super Nomario]

Brady's long ball to Vereen down the left sideline was sweet.
Brady recognized he was one on one with a linebacker and Vereen just blew his doors off. Throw was perfectly placed.

He read that before the play even started. Never looked anywhere else. The LB gave Vereen a big cushion and Brady still just waited for Vereen to blow by him.

 

[nothumb]

You're kidding me. The Pats were screwed left right and center by the refs in quarters 1 to 3. The fumble blown dead was a 6 point swing (no CLE FG and the Pats in FG territory). The Talib phantom holding where Gordon threw him down by the facemask was a 7 point swing.
If those calls went the other way it's a blowout by the 4th.

And it seemed like they knew it. The refs blew the grounding call on Campbell almost as a giveback. I will also grant you that the Pats should have been called for a personal foul hitting Campbell on his slide.

The NFL has got to fix the way the refs essentially decide 75% of games on judgment calls. What will get us there?

 
Hightower was already getting down for the hit when Campbell started his slide. There was no way he could be expected to pull up there.

 

[Tony C]

-Gost
-Vereen
-Ninkovich and Collins
HM to 71, what's his name again - Siliga -- thought he held his ground decently.
 
goats
-Solder
-Amendola -- a decent enough game (4 receptions/36 yards) but overall he really has been a disappointment. After preseason and the Buffalo game, had high hopes. He looks pretty healthy now, just doesn't produce.
-either Mankins or Svitek -- bad OL play in general.
 
Thought this would be a competitive game, and dang was it ever.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I have no idea how Cleveland fans do it.

 
Some don't.  NSFW - Language.
 
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW6nSLSq6Y[/youtube]

 

[crystalline]

 
Hightower was already getting down for the hit when Campbell started his slide. There was no way he could be expected to pull up there.

As a Pats fan I agree with you. However the way this has been called this season, I was surprised not to see Hightower penalized.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I'm going Mulligan.  Anyone who believes he's athletic enough to pull the hurdle a player move, only to fall short and take a facemask in the nuts, gets my vote.  Obviously his I can do anything attitude is infectious and its spreading to the good players who are taking over the 4th quarter 

 

[Jnai]

Didn't Boyce have a few really nice plays? From a guy who was basically unheard of the first month or two of the season, he's been a nice spark.

 

[nothumb]

Boyce was a mixed bag, but the mix seemed to tilt a little more towards the good than perhaps in the past. He had that drop on a bubble screen and there were a few times he seemed not to be where Brady expected, but he showed some nice open field moves and made some impact plays.

 

[Super Nomario]

Some notes and thoughts per PFF:
Brady was the lowest-rated offensive player (-1.0); Amendola was highest (+3.1, though more than half of that was blocking)
Boyce played 72 snaps, second-most among WR (graded as +0.3 overall, -0.8 in the passing game)
4/5 of the OL graded negatively in pass blocking (Svitek: -0.4, Solder: -0.4, Connolly: -1.6, Mankins: -2.1)
Season high in snaps for Collins (55) - +0.6 overall grade
Hightower was the highest-rated player on the D with a +2.8. Talib (-3.2) and Chandler Jones (-2.5) were worst. They had Gordon as 5 catches on 5 targets for 141 yards with Talib on him.
53 snaps for Siliga (+0.9; +1.6 in run D) over Vellano (22 snaps) and Sopoaga (2 snaps)
Run D overall graded out as +10.2. Pass rush was -8.2, Coverage -6.2
 
EDIT: one more oddity: Jordan Cameron graded out with 9 catches on 9 targets for 121 yards and a TD, a +3.1 rating in the passing game ... but a -1.4 overall, second-worst on Cleveland's O, due to a -3.9 run block grade.

 

[Stitch01]

They've had Talib as being bad since he hurt his hip. 
 
People can make of it what they will, but they've graded Arrington as a better overall  player than Talib over the span of Talib's time with the Patriots.  Food for thought when we get to offseason decisions in a couple of months.

 

[Toe Nash]

I'm sure BB will completely ignore what PFF thinks.
 
I thought Talib was poor against Steve Smith but not too bad yesterday. The Barnidge TD should have been a penalty on Gordon (not sure if Talib got docked for that). The long TD he was right there and got stiff-armed and then didn't have safety help (bad playcall). And a few of Gordon's other catches came on crossing routes and I think Talib may have let him go to another defender. Gordon is also pretty good and stuff.

 

[Stitch01]

Obviously BB isnt basing evaluation on PFF metrics, but I do think we overrate Talib a bit and that he's gone if it takes big money/multiple years to keep him.
 
I didnt think the long TD was Talib's fault yesterday either.

 

[rodderick]

Some notes and thoughts per PFF:
Brady was the lowest-rated offensive player (-1.0); Amendola was highest (+3.1, though more than half of that was blocking)
Boyce played 72 snaps, second-most among WR (graded as +0.3 overall, -0.8 in the passing game)
4/5 of the OL graded negatively in pass blocking (Svitek: -0.4, Solder: -0.4, Connolly: -1.6, Mankins: -2.1)
Season high in snaps for Collins (55) - +0.6 overall grade
Hightower was the highest-rated player on the D with a +2.8. Talib (-3.2) and Chandler Jones (-2.5) were worst. They had Gordon as 5 catches on 5 targets for 141 yards with Talib on him.
53 snaps for Siliga (+0.9; +1.6 in run D) over Vellano (22 snaps) and Sopoaga (2 snaps)
Run D overall graded out as +10.2. Pass rush was -8.2, Coverage -6.2
 
EDIT: one more oddity: Jordan Cameron graded out with 9 catches on 9 targets for 121 yards and a TD, a +3.1 rating in the passing game ... but a -1.4 overall, second-worst on Cleveland's O, due to a -3.9 run block grade.

 
LOL. Putting that much emphasis on blocking for a fucking WR tells you all you need to know about PFF. And Brady being the Patriots' worst offensive player is just downright hilarious.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They've had Talib as being bad since he hurt his hip. 
 
People can make of it what they will, but they've graded Arrington as a better overall  player than Talib over the span of Talib's time with the Patriots.  Food for thought when we get to offseason decisions in a couple of months.

 
Arrington can't play on the outside. At. All.
 
They play different positions. Arrington's a slot DB.

 

[Stitch01]

Yeah that's a good point.  I certainly didnt want to give the impression I ever want Arrington starting on the outside (or the impression that I agree that Talib has been worse than Arrington. I do think we overrate the former, underrate the latter).
 
Ryan might turn into a good outside corner.

 

[Bellhorn]

They've had Talib as being bad since he hurt his hip. 
 
People can make of it what they will, but they've graded Arrington as a better overall  player than Talib over the span of Talib's time with the Patriots.  Food for thought when we get to offseason decisions in a couple of months.

Last year FO had him as surprisingly average during his time with the Patriots, with Dennard coming out ahead in terms of raw catch/success rate stats. I don't think that Dennard is actually as good as a healthy Talib, but I think people also underrate how important he is to the secondary.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I'd like to know how everyone else grades out when assigned to Steve Smith, Andre Johnson, Jimmy Graham, AJ Green, Mike Wallace, Demarius Thomas, and Josh Gordon.  
 
Talib bats against the closer every time he's at the plate.

 

[Stitch01]

He was awesome until he got banged up.  Unfortunately, he seems to get banged up every season.
 
Anyone notice how they were using Boyce yesterday?  He played a ton of snaps, was curious what kind of routes he was running if anyone went to the game and was watching him.

 

[ShaneTrot]

 
LOL. Putting that much emphasis on blocking for a fucking WR tells you all you need to know about PFF. And Brady being the Patriots' worst offensive player is just downright hilarious.

My biggest beef with PFF, is how can they grade guys if they don't know their assignments on each play? What if Talib was supposed to have inside safety help and the safety never shifted to his side?

 

[Super Nomario]

Last year FO had him as surprisingly average during his time with the Patriots, with Dennard coming out ahead in terms of raw catch/success rate stats. I don't think that Dennard is actually as good as a healthy Talib, but I think people also underrate how important he is to the secondary.

Talib was pretty uneven last year - he got burned a couple times in the Indy game (and destroyed by Hakeem Nicks when he was with Tampa) but was terrific against Andre Johnson in the playoffs. He was really good to start this year, and has been uneven since returning from injury. Some of that is matchups, though; he's big and physical and does really well against big and physical guys, but he doesn't have elite speed so he can get burned by speedsters (remember, the Pats put Arrington and Cole on Mike Wallace, not Talib). Gordon's tough because he's physical and fast - the Patriots don't have a CB who matches up well against him (few do).
 

I thought Talib was poor against Steve Smith but not too bad yesterday. The Barnidge TD should have been a penalty on Gordon (not sure if Talib got docked for that). The long TD he was right there and got stiff-armed and then didn't have safety help (bad playcall). And a few of Gordon's other catches came on crossing routes and I think Talib may have let him go to another defender. Gordon is also pretty good and stuff.

PFF charged the Barnridge touchdown to McCourty.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

My biggest beef with PFF, is how can they grade guys if they don't know their assignments on each play? What if Talib was supposed to have inside safety help and the safety never shifted to his side?

 
Agreed. I've always gotten the strong sense that PFF is just making stuff up.

 

[Otis Foster]

He was awesome until he got banged up.  Unfortunately, he seems to get banged up every season.
 
Anyone notice how they were using Boyce yesterday?  He played a ton of snaps, was curious what kind of routes he was running if anyone went to the game and was watching him.

 
 
I wasn't at the game, but that open field move he made was beyond incredible. He left the Brownie would-be tackler looking like he was doing le grande ecart
 

 

[Super Nomario]

PFF (fairly) calls out the Pats' pass rush:
 

 
The Browns couldn’t have shown much more contempt for New England’s rush if they’d painted a target on Jason Campbell and offered to buy anybody who hit it a new car. They spent all game dropping Campbell back abnormally deep in the pocket – usually a green light for pass-rushers to shoot up field around slower offensive tackles – and let him hold the ball for plenty of time in his passes. Despite all that, the Patriots couldn’t really generate any rush to speak of. Only Rob Ninkovich managed more than two total pressures, getting a sack, a knockdown and four hurries from his day’s work, but even those plays were often slow to develop and required some help. In total, Campbell was pressured on just 10 drop-backs, while he was kept completely clean on 37. On those 37 snaps his passer rating was 120.3 and 14 points came from those throws.

 

[Tony C]

While I agree with all the skepticism in re PFF's numbers, I think that last bit of analysis is right on and points to Chandler Jones poor rating as being justified.

 

[lambeau]

Anyone understand the lapse on Cameron's TD? Looked like Collins' responsibility, but perhaps not that simple.

It was pretty egregious because he was similarly open about two plays before, and Turner must have just repeated the same thing.

 

[Super Nomario]

Anyone understand the lapse on Cameron's TD? Looked like Collins' responsibility, but perhaps not that simple.

It looked to me like he got fooled by the play fake. Video here:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Jordan-Cameron-4-yard-touchdown-catch/b626298a-fd72-4126-bf4e-a0cc991d1de9