The Game Goat Thread: Wk. 1 @ Miami
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Today sucked and I think the odds this season sucks are probably the highest they've ever been at the end of opening day since Brady tore his ACL. I get the negativity and this is probably the first time I've come out of a game legitimately down on Mac.
That said, I think the sky is falling shit is at least in some ways premature. I'm coming out of today neutral to positive on the defense. Dugger is a valuable player. Additionally, the front 7 was very decent and I thought Wise looked particularly good. I actually feel more confident this side of the ball is only a player or two away than I did this morning.
Depending on the severity of Mac's injury, I can see an argument for holding off on the dirt shoveling for a few weeks. While I'm in no way going to contend it would have been a different outcome otherwise, I wish we got to see how things played out if PI had been called on the first drive on the throw to Parker. Thought the offense looked legitimately good on that drive before the pick.
That said, I think the sky is falling shit is at least in some ways premature. I'm coming out of today neutral to positive on the defense. Dugger is a valuable player. Additionally, the front 7 was very decent and I thought Wise looked particularly good. I actually feel more confident this side of the ball is only a player or two away than I did this morning.
Depending on the severity of Mac's injury, I can see an argument for holding off on the dirt shoveling for a few weeks. While I'm in no way going to contend it would have been a different outcome otherwise, I wish we got to see how things played out if PI had been called on the first drive on the throw to Parker. Thought the offense looked legitimately good on that drive before the pick.
That 2008 team had arguably the greatest collection of talent in team history so they could do reasonably well with Cassel.
Who’s the Moss/Bruschi/Seymour etc on this team?
I'm not comparing this roster to 2008 - I just think that Brady going down for Cassel is probably the last time things looked this bleak in week 1.
Not sure I am seeing 8 or 9 wins with this schedule.
2 at Pittsburgh
3 Baltimore
4 at Green Bay
5 Detroit
6 at Cleveland
7 Chicago
8 at New York Jets
9 Indianapolis
10 Bye
11 New York Jets
12 at Minnesota
13 Buffalo
14 at Arizona Cardinals
15 at Las Vegas
16 Cincinnati Bengals
17 Miami Dolphins
18 at Buffalo Bills
2 at Pittsburgh
3 Baltimore
4 at Green Bay
5 Detroit
6 at Cleveland
7 Chicago
8 at New York Jets
9 Indianapolis
10 Bye
11 New York Jets
12 at Minnesota
13 Buffalo
14 at Arizona Cardinals
15 at Las Vegas
16 Cincinnati Bengals
17 Miami Dolphins
18 at Buffalo Bills
Det/Cle/Chi/NYJ/Ind/NYJ should be five wins, even for this Pats team. Can they find a way to scrape together 3 more and get to 8? I'd hope so, but who knows.
Bleak? Go back to 1990 and I can show you bleak.
Zappe throwing with his off arm is significantly brighter than having to watch the ghosts of never-was Marc Wilson and the specter of what-the-hell-was-that Tom Hodson underneath center.
You people haven't even smelled what bleak looks like in over two decades.
Zappe throwing with his off arm is significantly brighter than having to watch the ghosts of never-was Marc Wilson and the specter of what-the-hell-was-that Tom Hodson underneath center.
You people haven't even smelled what bleak looks like in over two decades.
Right on, that Rod Rust team was something to behold. 1-15, they scored 181 points and gave up 446. They are one of the worst NFL teams of all time.
Week 1 is weird and Miami is always tough especially early in the year. Still plenty of time to put things together, but a few notes:
- I think Mac looked good last year when his first look was getting separation or he had time to go through reads or check down. No one was getting much separation today and he didn't have time before the pocket started collapsing. I think some of that is the talent but also Miami is good in coverage so they deserve some credit. One of the biggest offseason wish lists I had was a receive who could win jump balls or get separation on key third downs and beyond Myers that didn't happen.
- It seems like Bourne was benched for not showing much in practice. I dunno. Maybe this lights a fire under his ass and it make much more sense to do this in week 1 than in the playoffs like BB has done before. But I also wonder if this kind of thing gets through to all guys the same in 2022. We will see how he (and others) reacts.
- Sloppy plays were bad. The safety blitz for the fumble-sack was a really well-timed blitz and the safety kind of hid behind some players as well. I can see why no one noticed him creeping up, but I think that means you need to alter your cadence better so he can't time it like that. That was basically the game
- Not sure what adjustment Miami made but it's bad that the run game just disappeared after the first two drives.
- I guess the linebackers were a bright spot. I thought they would get eaten up by passcatching RBs and TEs though I guess the safeties help out there and Tua is not a big threat.
I don't think today told us a lot, honestly. I'm more open to the possibility the floor is very low than I was during the preseason, but I'm not feeling particularly worse than I was after the Saints game last year. I feel like both the everything's fine and the this is a disaster sides want to call the other ridiculous, but there's still an argument to be made that either could end up right come January. They're 0-1 with a divisional loss to an opponent that I thought also looked kind of disappointing. It's not a great place to be, but there's a lot more football to be played.
The offensive line and Mac looked worse than they did in 2021. Ultimately I expect the difference between 4-13 and .500ish (and a chance at a wild card) to come down to whether they figure that out or not.
The offensive line and Mac looked worse than they did in 2021. Ultimately I expect the difference between 4-13 and .500ish (and a chance at a wild card) to come down to whether they figure that out or not.
Maybe it’s a personnel thing, but where are the slot plays? The Edelman/Welker type stuff, slants over the middle for 7 yards? Having that ability, and making defenses respect it, always seemed to open things up on other parts of the field for the offense. And it kept them out of unfavorable third down situations. I know it takes talent, trust, timing and execution, but I really miss that whole part of the playbook.
Because the preseason scrum against Carolina was weeks ago? It’s past time to move on.
I usually give BB a lot of leeway in these types of decisions, but there’s been like zero evidence that Bourne has been a problem. And he was their most consistent pass catcher last season.
At the end of the day, Bourne playing probably would not have made up for the rest of the team’s mistakes, so I will let this go. Trent Brown had an egregiously bad game; that inexcusable hold that nullified the roughing the passer probably cost the team a TD. And that wasn’t his worst play of the day.
I think the criticism of Mac is a little harsh; he was far from the goat imo.
They were running a Mickey Mouse offense with shitty play-calling. Mac was forced to change protections or routes on probably 2/3 of their plays. The line was a nightmare. Little to no motion, play action, misdirection, or screens. I mean… what the fuck?
Goats:
1. Bluto, for the shitty game plan and play-calling
2. Offensive line (Andrews, Strange, and Brown in particular)
Aside from the 4th and 7, I thought the defense played its ass off under the circumstances.
They were running a Mickey Mouse offense with shitty play-calling. Mac was forced to change protections or routes on probably 2/3 of their plays. The line was a nightmare. Little to no motion, play action, misdirection, or screens. I mean… what the fuck?
Goats:
1. Bluto, for the shitty game plan and play-calling
2. Offensive line (Andrews, Strange, and Brown in particular)
Aside from the 4th and 7, I thought the defense played its ass off under the circumstances.
That was a pretty weak holding call from the replay they showed. He was definitely clutching the guy, but it was inside the shoulder pads and he didn't chuck the guy or unnaturally hinder him in my opinion.
What would the plan have been if Judge and MP didn't get shitcanned? How was there no OC in training under McDaniels?
What would the plan have been if Judge and MP didn't get shitcanned? How was there no OC in training under McDaniels?
They gave some more details on Postgame Live about how Bill was hard on Bourne prior to that fight in preseason as well as Bourne being upset on the bench after he did not get back after that 45 yard reception.
Not sure Bill handing down his life lessons with Bourne will be considered what is "Best for the team" if they continue to struggle on offense.
Seems like on offense Brown blew two sacks. The Ogbah sack (talked about this with a few of you today) and the strip sack. His run blocking was also poor. He had a bad day. A no good very bad day.
Kyle Dugger is good at many different roles but his worst role is deep safety and his play and then angle on that Waddle TD was appalling. Parker had a hard matchup and but Henry didn’t and neither guy was getting separation.
Mac Jones. Balls hung, missed receivers, and Didn’t look sharp minus two fades.
Kyle Dugger is good at many different roles but his worst role is deep safety and his play and then angle on that Waddle TD was appalling. Parker had a hard matchup and but Henry didn’t and neither guy was getting separation.
Mac Jones. Balls hung, missed receivers, and Didn’t look sharp minus two fades.
Nailed it.
He shopped for the groceries, he cooked the meal, he's the one that left out ingredients/let them go elsewhere, it's on him that the meal, ie this team, is terrible.
Four straight losses to Miami, five out of the last six.
2000 and 2022; two bookends, this team might be worse than that one.
Time will tell.
I’ll admit, I don’t like the fact that BB seemed to say at both halftime and in the post-game that the difference in the game was 1-2 plays. While maybe technically true, this isn’t the BB I know. Those plays happened and they matter. There are no moral victories and he’s not been a guy who has ever cared about anything except the bottom line results.
O-Line for obvious reasons
Mac was sloppy
Defense had the awful sloppy play at the half
WIth that said, I’m not seeing the sky falling here. Unless we think Miami sucks, they bascially did nothing against the Pats defense. They had a fluky TD on a strip sack and a fluky TD on a 4th down at the half play. If the Pats have a “lack of talent” it seems Miami does too. I’m not worried.
Mac was sloppy
Defense had the awful sloppy play at the half
WIth that said, I’m not seeing the sky falling here. Unless we think Miami sucks, they bascially did nothing against the Pats defense. They had a fluky TD on a strip sack and a fluky TD on a 4th down at the half play. If the Pats have a “lack of talent” it seems Miami does too. I’m not worried.
I mean, yes, Miami does kinda of lack talent, especially at the most important position in the sport. No one expects them to be a contender, which is why this game is concerning: the Pats got rolled by a team who isn't materially better than them.
NE/MIA was the second least competitive game after only NYJ getting whipped by Baltimore, Hou tied IND, CHI/SF played in a monsoon so can't really guage that game. I'd argue out of every team playing today only NYJ were less competitive. Even DET gave PHI a late run.
He knows the team lacks confidence and is pumping them up consistently since the Raiders preseason game. I don't think it's necessarily wrong, but it's a very stark departure from what we saw for 21 years.
i guess you didn’t watch the Green Bay game which is considered a “tough game” on the schedule - which was the context of the discussion.
BTW, I noticed Jack Jones in the game for one play - not sure how much he did play. He had what looked like a "Welcome to the NFL" kind of moment, but not one without positives.
He was covering Hill, and it looked like Jones was right there in coverage, went up for what looked like it was going to be a pick, only to have Hill play the ball a bit better and come down with the catch.
View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1569026915310206979?s=20&t=jqwxSzBZOaSyggI90FM7kQ
He was covering Hill, and it looked like Jones was right there in coverage, went up for what looked like it was going to be a pick, only to have Hill play the ball a bit better and come down with the catch.
View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1569026915310206979?s=20&t=jqwxSzBZOaSyggI90FM7kQ
I understand thinking the “sky is falling” talk is premature. But I struggle to leap from that to not being worried. I’d love to understand why you’re not worried. Because I am.
That’s kind of the point though. They won 6 Super Bowls by being tougher and better conditioned and never offering excuses. The departure either says something about this roster or the coach. Neither is really reassuring to think about.
It just feels the attention to detail is missing. The offsides on the fourth down play. The first team offense has not looked sharp in the preseason and today. I just wish they had a guy who was a threat to suddenly get open. This team has always had an Edelman, Welker, or Brown or a bailout back like White, Vereen or Foulke.
Zero “quick twitch” athletes on offense. Everything is a grind. On days where the RBs get gameplanned out, it’s going to get ugly.
Should be among the top priorities for the next offseason to bring in a player like this who can actually get open without being schemed open, especially for a QB whose game is largely predicated on precision passing.
We know they aren’t going to chase a 1A alpha receiver type at the price needed so it almost has to be that kind of player that tends to be more attainable.
This is where they spent their second round pick in the draft.
It showed, albeit in limited time, in the preseason. He’ll be back around midseason and we’ll see what we have there.
I mean, if you think Miami looked kind of disappointing I am not sure how you can be optimistic about the Patriots. That was a thorough ass kicking today
I thought the defense was fine, not elite maybe, but more than good enough to win an NFL football game.
The offense was terrible (and I don't buy that it's talent, maybe they downgraded slightly on the line, but the rest is what it was last year) the playcalling is terrible and there seems to be no clear plan. Execution in passblocking and by the QB were not good at all as well which doesn't help, but this team looks like something on offense we haven't seen in a long time.... "totally unprepared and lost" and that is on the coaching staff as much as the players.
The offense was terrible (and I don't buy that it's talent, maybe they downgraded slightly on the line, but the rest is what it was last year) the playcalling is terrible and there seems to be no clear plan. Execution in passblocking and by the QB were not good at all as well which doesn't help, but this team looks like something on offense we haven't seen in a long time.... "totally unprepared and lost" and that is on the coaching staff as much as the players.
I keep coming back to when Belichick said he's at the point in his career where he just wants to coach the players he wants to coach. I would assume this also applies to working with the coaches he wants to work with. Responding to the loss of McDaniels by bringing back his old assistant buddies to fill the void tells me BB just isn't interested in coaching development at this point in his career, apart from sons, perhaps.
While he's always been a disciplinarian, everything starting from moving on from Brady shows me a coach who's old, tired, and wants a comfortable situation of players and coaches who ho don't challenge his authority in any way. This to me is a dying administration that I fear isn't going to end as gracefully as the Brady era did.
I'm not, really. I went into today thinking 8-9 and I'm coming out of it thinking worse than that is very possible, more possible than it's looked in week 1 in 20+ years. It just doesn't feel too pollyanna to point out that the defense played decent outside the Waddle TD and they had games last year where Mac and the line looked like absolute shit before ultimately rounding into form on that side of the ball. That said, I won't disagree with anyone who says the last 6 weeks have had an uncharacteristically negative vibe from the peeks we get behind the curtain and they played one of the worst games anyone in the league did today. They might well end up one of the worst teams in the league when all is said and done, they might not.
Some might bristle at your characterization, but I’ve been watching an eerily similar dynamic play out at my Alma mater. I’m a Syracuse guy and have watched Jim Boeheim follow the path you lay out quite closely over the past few seasons.
Maybe this isn’t how things will end for Belichick, but I’m literally watching it occur for another team.
At least with McDaniels you knew you were bringing back a really good OC.
Judge was a position coach and ST coordinator grossly over promoted by the Giants to disastrous results. Matty P a DC here also followed by a disastrous HC stint in Detroit. Are these the guys to shepherd your young QB to the next level? I am really skeptical. I’d have sooner hired BOB back.
Game Goats for me:
1) Trent Brown - his play was terrible all day - got Mac killed a couple of times and gave up the fumble/TD. This one game has me thinking about him moving back to RT
2) Kyle Dugger - he had some fantastic plays in the backfield - BUT you cannot give up a TD on 4 and 6 at the end of the half by taking a bad angle.
3) Mac - His INT was not a terrible throw and the deflection was somewhat unlucky given the PI, but you cannot throw an INT to start the game when the offense is moving. Just can't do it. Took at least 3 points off the board. He made some good to great throws and some shaky ones. Should have hit Nelson for a TD but made a great throw to Bourne right after.
These 3 players gave up 17 points on the day on 3 plays.
The defense looked good to great at times. I was pretty happy with the secondary overall with Hill and Waddle. Pats had some bad luck on fumbles and tips. Played like dog shit in Miami again. Offense looked predictable and sluggish. Why so little play action? No end arounds? No screens? My biggest overall concern is the stupid stupid plays the Pats keep making like:
1) Jumping offside on 4th and 1
2) Giving up a TD at the end of the half
3) Allowing a free runner at the QB multiple times
4) Untimely Fumbles
On to the Steelers.
1) Trent Brown - his play was terrible all day - got Mac killed a couple of times and gave up the fumble/TD. This one game has me thinking about him moving back to RT
2) Kyle Dugger - he had some fantastic plays in the backfield - BUT you cannot give up a TD on 4 and 6 at the end of the half by taking a bad angle.
3) Mac - His INT was not a terrible throw and the deflection was somewhat unlucky given the PI, but you cannot throw an INT to start the game when the offense is moving. Just can't do it. Took at least 3 points off the board. He made some good to great throws and some shaky ones. Should have hit Nelson for a TD but made a great throw to Bourne right after.
These 3 players gave up 17 points on the day on 3 plays.
The defense looked good to great at times. I was pretty happy with the secondary overall with Hill and Waddle. Pats had some bad luck on fumbles and tips. Played like dog shit in Miami again. Offense looked predictable and sluggish. Why so little play action? No end arounds? No screens? My biggest overall concern is the stupid stupid plays the Pats keep making like:
1) Jumping offside on 4th and 1
2) Giving up a TD at the end of the half
3) Allowing a free runner at the QB multiple times
4) Untimely Fumbles
On to the Steelers.
I guess I’m just basing my “not worried” on the last 22 years. This team has talent on offense — they need to get the OL in line, and with Wynn/Andrews/Owenwu/Strange/Brown, that feels like they will get it figured out. They should have a solid running game with Harris/Stevenson. They have enough WRs/TEs to have a passable offense with Meyers/Parker/Agholor/Bourne and Henry/Smith. I was much more concerned about the defense this year — but they have some talent there, and I am counting on the Belichicks to figure it out.
They have a tough schedule this year — Vegas had the over/under at 8.5 — that feels about right, and I think they can get closer to 10 wins with the Belichick factor, a mild leap from Mac, and some luck.
I am not sure that was the best example of the Pats playing winning defense. They couldn't get a turnover (even though they had chances). The routinely missed tackles. It was not a great performance from them. Probably a solid C for what they should be capable of (especially considering they were going against Tua). They only looked not as bad because the offense was really really bad. That was like a D- effort from the offense and coaching staff.
Edit - I mean the defense isn't why they lost. I just don't think it was great or just below great. I think it was solid with some really good plays and some really poor plays but overall solid. Good enough to win some games, but not all games.
He also said in the preseason that "coaching is coaching," as if to imply experience in a particular area has no strategic advantage. It's ridiculous, of course, but comes back to the fact that it's probably easier to give his old assistants the orders than raise a new coaching pup. There are tons of coaches from various ranks he could have tapped to take the crucial role of working with a 2nd year franchise QB. And he chose these guys. That speaks volumes as to what is important to him at this point in his career.
I don't want to delve too far into this in a game GOAT thread, but it's clearly BB. There are other players involved in this mess as well, but they fall at his feet as well, and that's a whole different concern.
The defense gave up 13 points, 65 rushing yards, and sacked Tua 3 times. Some unlucky fumble bounces and tips is only reason they didn't get 3 turnovers. What more do you want?
I mean actually getting the turnovers would be one. Not missing tackles on third and nine when they could have got the ball back. Again the defense was not the GOAT, I am just saying it was only solid.
Also, I would prefer the defense not to make Tua look competent, but he is now 3-0 against BB, so maybe just Miami?
Edit - Tua threw for 270 yards I think.