The Game Goat Thread: Wk 15 at Miami
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That last line is simply insane.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
I can understand being pissed at him for not making that difficult play. I understand he hasn't done as much as you expected, I expected more as well. I can understand putting him as a goat for the game though I disagree. I do not understand your expectations "crashing down" today after what he did the rest of the game.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
They've played so many close and thrilling games it's difficult to imagine any fan not finding this season to be at least somewhat entertaining. Every week it's a nail-biter.
On the defense, once again I'm concerned about the pass defense. The past two weeks, Jason Campbell and Ryan Tannehill (not exactly Marino and Montana) have put up 391 yards and 3 td with 0 int, and then 312 yards, 3 td, with 0 int.
The combined line for those two JAGs: 54-81 (66.7%), 703 yds, 6 td, 0 int. Yikes.
Super Nomario said:
Who cares how many penalties were called prior to that call? The PI call lead directly to the MIA TD that was the difference in the game. Not only was it a ticky tack call but unlikely MIA gets the first down even if the catch is made. Simms hates the patriots and even he admitted there wasn't much contact by Fletcher, he also later added that Hooman probably was PI but that you let the players play in that situation. Total BS, you either call both or let both go.
That is true...except they called PI on Dane Fletcher on a play when he did less than was done to HooMan there. His man just happened to trip and make it look worse.Super Nomario said:
I don't want to overstate the non-call. The D should have stopped them on the last drive and made a play on the 4th and 5. Amendola should have caught that ball to win the game. HooMan arguably should have caught the 3rd down pass even with the interference. The Pats should not be having to win every game on the last drive.
I'm with Byrdbrain on this one. Amendola came here to be a tough slot WR and make plays over the middle, not win on jump balls in the endzone. That's not really what he does, nor has he ever. I'm more of the mindset that it would have been a great catch if he had made it, as opposed to blaming him for not making it.
If every game comes down to whether or not Amendola makes a play like that, I think you're going to lose more than you win. That's not passing judgment or anything; that's just how it is. A lot of these guys are trying to fill roles they aren't really built to fill because of all of the injuries.
If every game comes down to whether or not Amendola makes a play like that, I think you're going to lose more than you win. That's not passing judgment or anything; that's just how it is. A lot of these guys are trying to fill roles they aren't really built to fill because of all of the injuries.
Red zone play calling was horrendous all game...they left points on the board by stubbornly abandoning the run in the 1st and 4th q's, settling for FGs. The last drive had little chance when Brady started resorting to only throwing into the endzone...crossing routes and outs are what works with this personnel...without Thompkins or Dobson, they were screwed trying to score in that manner.
Lots of plays "were the difference in the game" - it was a four-point game. That call was in the 3rd quarter, and the Pats had a bunch of chances to stop Miami earlier in the drive and even had a chance to stop them after on that drive, not to mention the TD drives they allowed before and after. The PI call was frustrating because that was the only time the D even forced a third down on that drive. That's how bad they sucked - couldn't even force third downs.j44thor said:
You're focusing on two plays. What about all the other plays in the game? The Pats had zero holding penalties called on them, including on the long TD to Edelman when Cannon tackled Cameron Wake. Focusing on just the calls that didn't go your way is the definition of homerism and crybabery (crybaby-ness? Crybabity?).j44thor said:
Not goats. The three 5''11" white guys who combined to catch 25 passes, most of which were catch and get down or die style.
Goats. I've got 2, both G's, both couldn't hit when it counted.
Goats. I've got 2, both G's, both couldn't hit when it counted.
Not goats. The three 5''11" white guys who combined to catch 25 passes, most of which were catch and get down or die style.
Tallest Pats receivers Gronk, KT, and Dobson were all out today.
Tallest Pats receivers Gronk, KT, and Dobson were all out today.
Also, with so many rookies & 2nd year players getting valuable on-field experience, this Patriots team will be hard to unseat next year as well.
If the number of killer injuries at least regress to the mean (you know, like Wilfork or Kelly not both, or Vollmer or Solder not both), we're looking at another 11-5 to 13-3 season.
The big question is: how long can TB be this good?
If the number of killer injuries at least regress to the mean (you know, like Wilfork or Kelly not both, or Vollmer or Solder not both), we're looking at another 11-5 to 13-3 season.
The big question is: how long can TB be this good?
Yes. The Pats had that (BS) turnover streak, but three of the past five games the D has failed to force a TO. Is this the worst Patriots D Belichick has coached since ... 2000? 2002?SeoulSoxFan said:
@MikeReiss: Video: Four Patriots takeaways: 1) Living on edge catches up to them; 2) Red-zone O; 3) Shaky defense; 4) Bad kickoff http://t.co/oUZMxLAjIC
I think people generally give him too much shit. But the repeated decision by McDaniels to line up in obvious passing formations on 3rd and goal inside of the 5 yard line has bitten them in the ass in several games now. To me, given how effective Blount has been in short situations (and Ridley as well), I don't understand why you would not at least bluff that you might be running – especially now that you don't have Gronk.
I think people generally give him too much shit. But the repeated decision by McDaniels to line up in obvious passing formations on 3rd and goal inside of the 5 yard line has bitten them in the ass in several games now. To me, given how effective Blount has been in short situations (and Ridley as well), I don't understand why you would not at least bluff that you might be running – especially now that you don't have Gronk.
m0ckduck said:
It's a shame that it's this year's team that's playing next week instead of the 2003, 2004, or many other iterations of this franchise.
What does 2002 have to do with anything? It's this team that's got to go to Baltimore, and right now it's most likely not going to be favored in that game.
Probably didnt matter but did anyone else notice
End of the 2nd half...54 seconds to play, Miami has just finished a play with the clock stopped at 54 seconds. They hike the ball and throw an out to the sideline. By my count it was about 6 seconds. I look at the clock before the next play.....53 seconds left in the half.
Noticed some other slow clock starts and stops throughout the game.
End of the 2nd half...54 seconds to play, Miami has just finished a play with the clock stopped at 54 seconds. They hike the ball and throw an out to the sideline. By my count it was about 6 seconds. I look at the clock before the next play.....53 seconds left in the half.
Noticed some other slow clock starts and stops throughout the game.
Van Everyman said:
Agreed. McDaniels has long demonstrated no feel for the game. His insistence, year after year, of putting the entirety of responisibilty of winning games on Brady's shoulders borders on willfully obtuse. RUN. THE. BALL.
Agreed. McDaniels has long demonstrated no feel for the game. His insistence, year after year, of putting the entirety of responisibilty of winning games on Brady's shoulders borders on willfully obtuse. RUN. THE. BALL.
It's a passing league, and Tom Brady is really good . Mcdaniels frustrates everyone at times, but the OC is number 80 on list of concerns.
It's a passing league, and Tom Brady is really good . Mcdaniels frustrates everyone at times, but the OC is number 80 on list of concerns.
This team will not go far in the palyoffs if they settle for FGs. Without any large recievers who can win a fight for a ball in the end zone, they have to call some running plays on third and 2 from the five. And they have to go for it on 4th downs in similar situations. This team will die because it will not run inside the five and will take the three points when they need the seven. Their defense is not good enough to settle for FGs. McDaniels has to realize this, and if he doesnt Belichick has to let him know this during the week. On 3rd and two from the five yard line, run the frickin' ball. And if you don't make it, go for it on 4th. Goddamnit, even if you don't make it, the Dolphins still would have the ball on their five yard ine, 95 yarsd away from a TD.
Just extremely frustrated with this loss.
Just extremely frustrated with this loss.
Totally agree, but the Pats went into this game without Gronk (obviously), Thompkins and Dobson. The little guys are not that much of a threat in the red zone. The backs need to be more involved in the red zone.twibnotes said:
We're talking about, what, three plays this game? And on one of them, it looked like Brady audibled to an empty backfield.ShaneTrot said:
Really didn't like the 3rd and 2 pass call right before the last field goal. Especially because if you run and make any yardage its an easy go for it call. Line is beat up, but Blount wasn't getting dropped for a loss very oftenSmiling Joe Hesketh said:
Stitch01 said:
Yeah if there is one thing this season has taught us it is that next Sunday will almost certainly be a 1 score game.
I can't remember the last time there was this much parity in the AFC. That is both good for the current NE squad and rather infuriating because a healthy NE squad is probably a favorite to reach the SB.
This year's team is allowing more points per game (though point inflation means its PPG rank is worse). It is also much worse at forcing turnovers. I guess it's fair to say both are / were garbage.Stitch01 said:
EDIT: Actually, the 2011 team wasn't very good at stopping the run either, 4.6 YPC.
twibnotes said:
This is true, but the importance of a credible play-action threat when you're down in the red zone cannot be over-stated.
SeoulSoxFan said:
I didn't think BB performed well overall today, not only on the 4th down plays. Example: The last two plays to end the half - with the injuries this team has had, you either need to go for it, or take a knee and head to the locker room. Those last two plays had no chance of scoring or putting the team in a position to score - why take the risk?
The screen gets more yards and he doesn't go into half time, but thought he was way too conservative on 4th down decisions and burning that possession before the half. Pats got a break when the Dolphins went too conservative and snapped the ball of the holders face.
Cole was beaten for that long touchdown - he only played 3 other snaps:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4755406/snaps-cb-cole-targeted-quickly
Some surprising stuff: only 17 snaps for Ryan
More of a rotation with Chris Jones (38 snaps), Siliga (38), Vellano (24), and Sopoaga (15)
Talib wire-to-wire (63 / 63) and Arrington (61) and Dennard (57) almost - good sign for their health issues
LB rotation - Hightower (40), Collins (29), Fletcher (23), Spikes (21)
No snaps for Harmon, with Gregory and McCourty going wire-to-wire
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4755406/snaps-cb-cole-targeted-quickly
Some surprising stuff: only 17 snaps for Ryan
More of a rotation with Chris Jones (38 snaps), Siliga (38), Vellano (24), and Sopoaga (15)
Talib wire-to-wire (63 / 63) and Arrington (61) and Dennard (57) almost - good sign for their health issues
LB rotation - Hightower (40), Collins (29), Fletcher (23), Spikes (21)
No snaps for Harmon, with Gregory and McCourty going wire-to-wire
Wonder why Harmon and Ryan lost time. In the spot before the half Id rather have seen Ryan or even Harmon/Gregory with McCourty at corner for a couple of plays rather than Cole on the outside on Wallace. Frustrating drive, Ryan almost picked off the first pass of the drive then the Dolphins needed a pretty good third down catch to keep from punting the ball back. Pats win easily if they get off the field there IMHO.
EDIT: Gregory was bad, would really like to see Harmon get some PT there. He didnt tackle Wallace before the half and he fucked up the big 4th down play with Clay too. Dolphins did a good job getting blocks on Ryan and McCourty but Tannehill's pass was actually behind Clay and gave Gregory enough time to come up and have a clean shot Clay behind the first down line. Fletcher got a piece of Clay down low to trip him up, if Gregory doesnt get juked there and gets a decent piece of him Clay ends up a yard short.
EDIT: Gregory was bad, would really like to see Harmon get some PT there. He didnt tackle Wallace before the half and he fucked up the big 4th down play with Clay too. Dolphins did a good job getting blocks on Ryan and McCourty but Tannehill's pass was actually behind Clay and gave Gregory enough time to come up and have a clean shot Clay behind the first down line. Fletcher got a piece of Clay down low to trip him up, if Gregory doesnt get juked there and gets a decent piece of him Clay ends up a yard short.
For me, the clearly missed PI on Hooman is the lingering memory of this loss. I've usually felt that the NFL is the best officiated of the four major sports – they have a reputable replay system, none of the cultural baggage that hampers MLB nor the personal grudge stuff that has made NBA officiating a joke.
But this year (and probably last) have dissuaded me to a large degree of the notion that the NFL is that much better off. They're as inconsistent as any of the other sports. The Carolina game showed me that they aren't above being petty and a little abusive of their powers. And the repeated blown calls at the end of games demonstrates that they aren't very politically savvy either. Those are the ones that any smart league would dictate get called right – even if it means they take more time.
The Hooman PI was so obvious on the replay that I thought I was watching All the Right Moves. The LB clearly made contact with him before the ball reached his hands. It should have been first and goal at the 1 yard-line period.
Of course, McDaniels would have lined them up in the shotgun formation for a fade to Amendola but still.
But this year (and probably last) have dissuaded me to a large degree of the notion that the NFL is that much better off. They're as inconsistent as any of the other sports. The Carolina game showed me that they aren't above being petty and a little abusive of their powers. And the repeated blown calls at the end of games demonstrates that they aren't very politically savvy either. Those are the ones that any smart league would dictate get called right – even if it means they take more time.
The Hooman PI was so obvious on the replay that I thought I was watching All the Right Moves. The LB clearly made contact with him before the ball reached his hands. It should have been first and goal at the 1 yard-line period.
Of course, McDaniels would have lined them up in the shotgun formation for a fade to Amendola but still.
Disagree the refs were the difference in this one.
Agree with your broader point about the officiating. Id like to see BB's suggestion of being able to challenge penalties, maybe with an extra challenge for each team. I dont think the Hooman play would have been overturned if it was called PI or called no penalty if that rule was in effect.
EDIT: Oh, strongly disagree with Simms analysis that you cant call PI there. You absolutely can and should call PI when the game is on the line. Just thought it was reasonably borderline for a game where they didnt call much of anything (yeah, Fletcher got called, his was more blatant)
Final point: Refs really need to be downgraded for fuckups like the one second running off on that rollout play late in the first half. That is indefensible.
Agree with your broader point about the officiating. Id like to see BB's suggestion of being able to challenge penalties, maybe with an extra challenge for each team. I dont think the Hooman play would have been overturned if it was called PI or called no penalty if that rule was in effect.
EDIT: Oh, strongly disagree with Simms analysis that you cant call PI there. You absolutely can and should call PI when the game is on the line. Just thought it was reasonably borderline for a game where they didnt call much of anything (yeah, Fletcher got called, his was more blatant)
Final point: Refs really need to be downgraded for fuckups like the one second running off on that rollout play late in the first half. That is indefensible.
Stitch01 said:
That was such an odd statement. This is a penalty, it should be a penalty any other time, but not now. WTF? Seems like Simms wants this to be the NBA.
Why don't we just have a thread for the refs every week? This is getting tiresome. I know the thread is for catharsis and complaining but literally unless the refs hand the Patriots a half dozen plays they end up being a primary topic.
I agree. The Pats got the benefit of a marginal call against the Browns but didn't get the call yesterday. It was probably a penalty but certainly not the most egregious non-call ever, and those are the breaks.
Look this is basically how the rest of the NFL lives on a week-to-week basis. With the injuries the Pats have right now there is just no margin for error and if they don't win the turnover battle and get screwed on a couple of calls on the road against a decent team it is going to be tough for them to win the game. As Pats fans we have just not faced this reality all that often in the last decade and a half.
I'll echo what I said in the game thread, they played better yesterday than either of the last two weeks when they won, and yesterday actually left me more encouraged about next week and the playoffs. It is still incredibly unlikely that they advance further than the AFC Title game (unless Denver stumbles again and they suddenly end up with HFA) but if they minimize mistakes and get a few breaks they can beat anyone in the AFC. Flip side is if they don't play well and turn the ball over a couple of times they probably can't overcome that, definitely not against good teams.
Look this is basically how the rest of the NFL lives on a week-to-week basis. With the injuries the Pats have right now there is just no margin for error and if they don't win the turnover battle and get screwed on a couple of calls on the road against a decent team it is going to be tough for them to win the game. As Pats fans we have just not faced this reality all that often in the last decade and a half.
I'll echo what I said in the game thread, they played better yesterday than either of the last two weeks when they won, and yesterday actually left me more encouraged about next week and the playoffs. It is still incredibly unlikely that they advance further than the AFC Title game (unless Denver stumbles again and they suddenly end up with HFA) but if they minimize mistakes and get a few breaks they can beat anyone in the AFC. Flip side is if they don't play well and turn the ball over a couple of times they probably can't overcome that, definitely not against good teams.
How about the strength & conditioning staff? Year after year we see the disintegration of the DB corps. Now it's the rest of the team. Every team has injuries, but not like this team year after year. This team also has guys who can make the lineup but are clearly severely hampered.
And I'm not talking about the contact injuries like Gronk or Vollmer, but the incessant series of groins, hips, foot sprains, muscles, etc.
And I'm not talking about the contact injuries like Gronk or Vollmer, but the incessant series of groins, hips, foot sprains, muscles, etc.
Carmine Hose said:
Miami's defense backs are absolutely decimated right now. They had a safety they signed off of SF's practice squad playing CB at the end of the game. I think with a little bit of digging you will find that the defense back injuries are much much more widespread then you think.
Basically I do not think it is unusual for a team to have 2 to 4 of their top DBs banged up at this point in the season, they are small by nature and have to tackle bigger stronger players. That being said, I will concede that the total injury situation for the Pats this year is unusual.
Super Nomario said:
What was Talib primarily used for yesterday? He rarely saw Wallace or Hartline and on at least a couple occasions it appeared that he was lining up as more of a safety. Was he matching up with Charles Clay all game? Thought it was rather odd that he played the whole game but didn't see either of MIA top WR who both had little trouble making plays.
Maybe I'm projecting but I haven't seen a lot of posters saying the non-call was THE reason the Pats lost.smastroyin said:
This is a goat thread and we've identified a bunch of the reasons for the loss, such as Ghost's kick off, the failure of the D on the 4th and 5 and that whole series, Cole's inability to cover, Amendola's drop and HooMan not making that catch notwithstanding that he was getting interfered with. In my view, that was PI and should have been called, but it's not as if the Pats didn't have plenty of chances to win this game.
This may be semantics but I look at the call as one of the topics, not the primary one. That said, the calls in the Jets and Panthers games were preposterously bad, and there's a tendency to feel a little ripped off when a non-call is seemingly part of a pattern...even with the iffy call that went the Pats way against the Browns.