The Krafts
- Thread starter Red Averages
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The parent of a visiting opposing player came to our tailgate a few years ago. Very nice, friendly, had a great time. I asked if there was a team sponsored tailgate for the visitors' families, and she laughed. She said "they don't do anything for us at home, why would they do anything for us on the road." She then said that the Pats had the same reputation (did nothing for the players families), and that they were sometimes tough to deal with for tickets, parking, etc. And this guy was a star, not some schlub. It really surprised me that the teams do nothing for the families.
It was Donna Kelce-she had a business relationship with one of the regulars at our tailgate. Every time they show her and T. Swift in a suite on TV now, I wonder if she'd be getting the invite if Travis had a less famous girlfriend.
Bob Kraft is in my opinion by far the best owner in the NFL, and he's not a terribly great owner. NFL owners are uniquely shitty human beings.
One time I was working an NFL training camp. The owner dropped by. Players and coaches all stopped what they were doing to go over and single-file kiss the owner's ass. Some of these guys would be considered mega-stars too. "Can I carry something for you? Anything you need, sir? Can I get you a water?" It was gross.
One time I was working an NFL training camp. The owner dropped by. Players and coaches all stopped what they were doing to go over and single-file kiss the owner's ass. Some of these guys would be considered mega-stars too. "Can I carry something for you? Anything you need, sir? Can I get you a water?" It was gross.
I expect from Robert Kraft, what many here expect from each other. If he can't find an eternally positive vibe to what the best coach ever did for him in 20 years I don't feel an obligation to forgive his end of life scramble for all the credit. If it is true he insisted the keep Mack Jones, in reality he is mostly to blame for last year. He has been pathetically petty and classless.
I do respect what he has done, but I have lost any respect I had for him. I can somewhat foregone John Henry for getting bored after what he accomplished with the Sox. But after years of saying "family" etc this final act reveals he is just another rich egomaniac.
I do respect what he has done, but I have lost any respect I had for him. I can somewhat foregone John Henry for getting bored after what he accomplished with the Sox. But after years of saying "family" etc this final act reveals he is just another rich egomaniac.
Why anyone would give a shit who the billionaire owner of the Patriots is dating or where he’s getting his handjobs (assuming everything is consensual) is beyond me.
I think the documentary was a bad look, but he’s far from the first rich, eccentric octogenarian to do some weird shit.
Kept the team in Foxboro when it would have been far more lucrative for him to move them to CT. Hired BB, largely stayed out of the way while they dominated the league for 20 years and won six Super Bowls.
None of us know any of these guys on a personal level and it never surprises me to find out they are egocentric weirdos. As an owner of a sports team I root for I mostly don’t have an issue with him.
I think the documentary was a bad look, but he’s far from the first rich, eccentric octogenarian to do some weird shit.
Kept the team in Foxboro when it would have been far more lucrative for him to move them to CT. Hired BB, largely stayed out of the way while they dominated the league for 20 years and won six Super Bowls.
None of us know any of these guys on a personal level and it never surprises me to find out they are egocentric weirdos. As an owner of a sports team I root for I mostly don’t have an issue with him.
The ESPN article that’s referenced earlier in this thread is pretty interesting.
Wickersham clearly wants to paint things as Kraft v Belichick (especially in regards to the Atlanta job) but if you read the article it also seems like Kraft really had nothing to do with BB not getting the falcons job?
None of the football people involved in the search had Belichick in their top 5 choices. Apparently Blank hates going through coaching searches and considers the organization to be his “family” and expects the team leaders to act the same (IE, warm/deep conversations about people personal lives) If those things are to be believed then Belichick would have been a terrible fit.
I think Kraft has definitely not exactly covered himself in glory with the BB exit but I really think that article kind of painted him in an unfair light with regards to the Blank/Atlanta stuff
Wickersham clearly wants to paint things as Kraft v Belichick (especially in regards to the Atlanta job) but if you read the article it also seems like Kraft really had nothing to do with BB not getting the falcons job?
None of the football people involved in the search had Belichick in their top 5 choices. Apparently Blank hates going through coaching searches and considers the organization to be his “family” and expects the team leaders to act the same (IE, warm/deep conversations about people personal lives) If those things are to be believed then Belichick would have been a terrible fit.
I think Kraft has definitely not exactly covered himself in glory with the BB exit but I really think that article kind of painted him in an unfair light with regards to the Blank/Atlanta stuff
I like the Krafts and I think they did a great job and will continue to run the team well.
if they’re average owners, who are the best owners?
I think BB needed to go and I am completely put off by RKK's bullshit kicking BB on his way out the door. The quotes in the new ESPN piece are particularly galling - and also short-sighted. It makes Kraft look so, so bad. Do we think BB comes back for TB12 Day or for induction into the Patriots HOF? I know it seems trivial, but I was always hoping for/assuming a happily nostalgic cherry-on-top situation. If I'm BB, after the shots in The Dynasty and in the ESPN article, especially as it pertains to "trust," (I don't give a shit about the little stuff about changing the culture in the building), I'm not coming back to Gillette until Kraft is in the ground.
The ones who never talk, don't care if they get credit and don't go around getting arrested at massage parlors that may or may not be trafficking people? Like the Celtics owners are considerably better owners to me. They just cut the checks. Kraft did some really good stuff, but he gets a ton of credit for not screwing up lucking into the best coach/QB pairing in the league, sure he could have Jerry Jonesed it, but I think the average owner when they stumble into success just don't mess it up.
what matters is going forward u guys have to hit on mum 3 and start to compete by 2025 i read that espn today and mr kraft cost bill that job bill only path forward is dallas without dallas he will never coach in the NFL again if i was bill if i do not get a nfl job next offseason i coach navy
"Initially, Kraft had hoped to move into the new stadium by 2001—two full seasons and about 20 months away. Now, the state was indicating that 2002 seemed more likely. " ...Imagine if the Tuck Rule Game in January, 2002 had been the last Patriots' game in Massachusetts!
I don't think Patriots (or Red Sox) ownership should be complaining about management. It's an embarrassment that they are after the last few decades of ridiculous success.
Every NFL owner is a smarmy POS. Every one of them. As others have said, he genuinely cares about his team as a fan and wants them to win, which is more than you can say for a handful of owners in the league. Would you rather have Tepper? Davis? Irsay?
I don't buy the story of Kraft badmouthing BB to Blank. Kraft made it extremely clear in his post-firing presser that he felt BB had too much power in the end and was done with that arrangement, but sabotaging his future job prospects is right up there with the rest of sports talk radio discussion. It's a bad look if today is the day you're buying Wickersham's unnamed sources.
I don't buy the story of Kraft badmouthing BB to Blank. Kraft made it extremely clear in his post-firing presser that he felt BB had too much power in the end and was done with that arrangement, but sabotaging his future job prospects is right up there with the rest of sports talk radio discussion. It's a bad look if today is the day you're buying Wickersham's unnamed sources.
The non-Parsons athletic facilities did last time I checked. I think field hockey plays home games in Dedham, too.
Isn't he on the Mt. Rushmore of coaches in major US sports, period, and not just New England? He's widely considered the GOAT in the sport where coaches probably matter the most.
Has Dick Goodwin? Mike Wallace? Conan O’Brian? Jim Davis (New Balance, not Garfield)? Theo?
Kraft was shrewd enough in the way that he maneuvered to buy the team, and he was successful in keeping the team in New England.
He was good in hiring coaches: Carroll, for all the crap he got here, turned out to be a good coach, and BB, arguably the best ever.
When he did have the dynasty assembled, he didn't do anything to fuck it up for the better part of two decades.
At the end of the day, all of that counts for more than his numerous missteps:
He was good in hiring coaches: Carroll, for all the crap he got here, turned out to be a good coach, and BB, arguably the best ever.
When he did have the dynasty assembled, he didn't do anything to fuck it up for the better part of two decades.
At the end of the day, all of that counts for more than his numerous missteps:
- He failed to maintain the relationship with Parcells, leading to Parcells doing the unforgivable (to me) thing of working on lining up his next job when he was supposed to be preparing the Pats for the Superbowl. Plenty of blame to go around on both sides there
- He meddled too much in the cases of both Parcells and Carroll
- In later years he's sought to pin blame for the end of the dynasty
- He seems like kind of an asshole
Kraft's greatest virtue was understanding his place as an owner and not meddling, but he's too image conscious and grew to resent the way his role was perceived in the dynasty in contrast to Brady's and Bill's and I honestly believe a lot of the bullshit he's been on lately has been driven by not being inducted into the Hall of Fame. He backed Bill in the Brady decision and then immediately turned around to blame him for it because it made the Patriots (aka him) look like idiots and he couldn't stand it, even though he had all the power to overrule Bill or even totally back Brady and fire him, so it was his call as much as Belichick's. It's really odd to see an 80+ year old behave in such a manner. I also think he's generally been cheap for a decade now and don't buy the "Bill never had a strict budget, he could spend the money whichever way he wanted" stuff, even though I fully believe Bill was too cap conscious and with time didn't catch up to how much more malleable it became (constraints were far greater in the early 2000's). I think of him much as I think of Bill: crucial to establishing the dynasty and setting the franchise on a path to success, incredibly important at maintaining said success, became a detriment as things began to fall apart.
If you are going to get the blame if it goes wrong, you should get the credit if it goes right. Kraft deserves credit here. He has been a fantastic owner of this franchise. He certainly didn't throw passes, devise schemes, or draft players but he did his job.
The best part is that Yes, Bob has supported the school
http://susannabaird.com/kraft-cements-his-love-for-the-old-alma-mater
but I am sure @Ale Xander has a point here.
That's great to hear. That's why I asked a question. Would have liked more than 500k though.
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Mike Wallace and even Theo aren't in the ballpark, wealth-wise.
No clue who DIck Goodwin is.
And for the love of God, spell Conan's name right if you're going to criticize someone.
I believe the land that the stadium was going to be built on was contaminated also. The best thing to ever happen was when the Connecticut deal fell apart, if it ever did happen they would of been long gone from that state and city by now. Hartford is an empty city that has no one living in it, it struggles supporting a AHL hockey team these days...
Imo the real friction for the last few years has been between Bill Belichick and Jonathan Kraft! I'm willing to bet anything those two didn't even want to pass each other in the hallway these last few years.
I think, in his eyes, he got none of the credit while getting a portion of the blame at the end. So now he's trying to retroactively get credit
IMO when athletes, many in their early 20s, address their 80+ year old boss as Mr. is not that strange. I think its a sign of respect. Like talking to someone else's grandpa.
As to Grandpa Kraft's behavior re BB, IMO Grandpa wanted to put himself in the best possible light, but found it difficult to defend Col. Jessup's record over the past 4 years to his other owners. And grandpa probably never forgave BB for exiling his other son to wander the Sinai before finding refuge and another ring in Tampa.
Dick is fairly well known, as is his wife. You could have looked up Kraft's gift like I did. And yeah, the others have enough to support good ol' BHS like some members here have.
And please, let's not start on spelling mistakes.
You’re right but dude has gotten a $6.5B asset value appreciation since 2000 so this attempt at getting credit is just silly. But we know how egotistical sports owners are so it is what it is.
He also got plenty of credit, he was universally lauded as one of the best owners. But.... like most people who own a sports franchise he's an egomaniac who wants ALL credit, no blame. He picked Bill, therefore he should get credit for everything good Bill ever did. But.... when Bill doesn't do well, that's on Bill. It is what it is. He's still a solid owner so far even if trending the wrong direction possibly, but also... he seems like a huge asshole, like most people who buy Sports franchises.
I'm amused by the Jonathan Kraft rehabilitation (not calling out DotB personally, just using his quote as jumping off point). Jonathan Kraft is an arrogant, grade A asshole, which I know from several different contexts (business and personal). He's definitely smart, but his ego rivals RKK's and he always thinks he's the smartest person in the room. When he's talking about shit that is out of his element (and I promise you, I've witnessed this firsthand), he doubles down and expects you to genuflect. The jury is out on Jonathan as an owner, I think he could actually be a very good one, but his reputation as an asshole is well earned.
I actually don't disagree with this. I just disagree that "asshole" is synonymous with "incompetent" or that he's only successful at all in life because of his father. He certainly had a leg up on the competition from day one in life, but so do most folks who get to the wealth that these guys have. I firmly don't buy into the idea that this team is necessarily in incapable hands once Bob is out of the picture, mostly because my personal experience is that Jonathan has been the main driving force from the owner's suite when it comes to the operations of this team for a long, long time, not Bob.
I can see this but.... there is a difference between the two negatives you put forward. He may be competent or not, but he definitely is only where he is in life because of his father, literally every opportunity he has ever had is because of his father, and honestly not even in the "my rich dad gave me a bunch of money and I used it to succeed" but rather the "my dad hired me into his company after business school and handed me a management position that I have held ever since".
That's not exactly what I said. Yes, Jonathan Kraft wouldn't be the President of the New England Patriots or the New England Revolution, but the idea that Jonathan Kraft wouldn't be successful "at all in life" without his father/mother could be said for every single kid who grew up in an affluent town to successful parents, or shit 90% of the population that had active, engaged parents.
Did Jonathan get into Williams College in 1982, because of his father's paper company and more than a decade before he owned the Patriots? Did his father get him the job at Bain, where he worked before he left and got an MBA from Harvard? Is it because of his father that he now sits on the Board of Dean's advisors at Harvard Business School, and as a Trustee Emeritus at Williams College, his two alma maters? Both of which he graduated from before Kraft owned the team. As previously mentioned, he is the chairman of the board at MGH, he sits on the boards of Belmont Hill School, Dexter Southfield, Partners Healthcare, he chairs the Boston Children's Hospital Stem Cell Advisory Board, he's a member of MIT's Dean's advisory Council, and he's a member of the advisory board of the Billie Jean King Leadership Initiative. Is Robert holding his hand when he meets with these folks and does his work?
Again, if we're going to shit on Jonathan by saying he's only where he is because of his father, I've got a long, long list of folks that we could add to that same list, myself included (and my father never graduated high school), but at some point, a man stands on his own two feet and on his own accomplishments, and I think it's myopic to say that without Bob, Jonathan would be doing some sort of manual labor somewhere or whatever someone means when they say "every opportunity he's ever had is because of his father."
None of this really shocks me.
Bill was hard to work for and with? huh. He came across as arrogant? hmmm. He was stuck on choosing certain players despite others disagreeing? I think we can all agree love him or hate him he must have felt it was in the best interest of the team. Hard to be pissed about that. He mighta been wrong....or he might have expected bounce back performances but he wasnt trying to be a dick by losing. After 20 years of (by all appearances) being given a free hand to run the football team he suddenly was being (even if slightly) micromanageed? And he chaffed at that. Shocker.
That Robert talked to another owner 1v1....so you expect some candor.....and told him "Yea Bill isnt warm and fuzzy.....so your not gonna like him". Seems perfectly reasonable. No One ever said he should need to "lie" for Bill.
Now we could debate that he shouldve/couldve said "What you see is what you get with Bill". But if your religious friend (which I assume Blank and Kraft are) came to you and asked how you liked his Bleach blond ex-stripper GF who is better now, after rehab..... would you tell him "Hey I cant really give you an opinion". Of course not. Your probably gonna point out some red flags.
Also IF RK had said "Now Defensively? His football mind? I have never met someone so astute" that just doesnt generate the same clicks as "Dont hire him". So who knows what was said and NOT reported on because it just wasnt juicy.
If I was being 100% honest with someone from the sons of Early Deion Sanders I would probably say the same thing if I knew them and they told me "I love it when my coach gives gregarious press conferences. Will Bill Do that??" "Ehhhhh....."
Now Kraft may well be a jerk ..... ..but its not for a conversation with Blank.
Bill was hard to work for and with? huh. He came across as arrogant? hmmm. He was stuck on choosing certain players despite others disagreeing? I think we can all agree love him or hate him he must have felt it was in the best interest of the team. Hard to be pissed about that. He mighta been wrong....or he might have expected bounce back performances but he wasnt trying to be a dick by losing. After 20 years of (by all appearances) being given a free hand to run the football team he suddenly was being (even if slightly) micromanageed? And he chaffed at that. Shocker.
That Robert talked to another owner 1v1....so you expect some candor.....and told him "Yea Bill isnt warm and fuzzy.....so your not gonna like him". Seems perfectly reasonable. No One ever said he should need to "lie" for Bill.
Now we could debate that he shouldve/couldve said "What you see is what you get with Bill". But if your religious friend (which I assume Blank and Kraft are) came to you and asked how you liked his Bleach blond ex-stripper GF who is better now, after rehab..... would you tell him "Hey I cant really give you an opinion". Of course not. Your probably gonna point out some red flags.
Also IF RK had said "Now Defensively? His football mind? I have never met someone so astute" that just doesnt generate the same clicks as "Dont hire him". So who knows what was said and NOT reported on because it just wasnt juicy.
If I was being 100% honest with someone from the sons of Early Deion Sanders I would probably say the same thing if I knew them and they told me "I love it when my coach gives gregarious press conferences. Will Bill Do that??" "Ehhhhh....."
Now Kraft may well be a jerk ..... ..but its not for a conversation with Blank.
Of course.
However, and this is just how I imagine he views it, he should have got more credit for keeping Brady and Belichick together as long as he did (and probably more credit for letting BB do his thing than he did at the time).
IMO, his actions reek of someone that thinks they didn't get their due credit as it was going on so he's trying to get it now (especially since the team has been ass recently, so there's not much good to hang onto there)
Completely agreed. The pulled quotes and headlines make it look much worse than it was in the actual article. Apparently Belichick thought he had the job (which is at the beginning of the article where it makes it seem like BB had the job but Kraft just torpedoed him) but in actuality, the people around Blank (Terry Fontenot, Rich McKay) didn't rate him highly.
To be honest, and this is pulling the pieces together from that article, it seems like Kraft gave Blank, his friend, good advice. If what the article says about Blank is true, then him and Belichick wouldn't have been a good marriage.
However, and this is from previous Wickersham articles, if Kraft was just shitting on Belichick in owners meetings and going out of his way to dog him, then that's really shitty on his part.
Yup. It’s honestly just kind of sad and pathetic to watch. For his own sake, I hope he just shuts up at this point.
The two thoughts that leap out at me is that many folks who are normally suspicious of any reporting from the WWL fully embraced that ESPN piece.
Also, if people cannot see how BB's style would not work with certain folks - especially prospective bosses but also just certain types of personalities - its hard to have this conversation. BB seems pretty unapologetic about who he is and how he operates. He also strikes me as someone who is pretty self aware so it probably not lost on him that some folks don't vibe with how he does things.
Also, if people cannot see how BB's style would not work with certain folks - especially prospective bosses but also just certain types of personalities - its hard to have this conversation. BB seems pretty unapologetic about who he is and how he operates. He also strikes me as someone who is pretty self aware so it probably not lost on him that some folks don't vibe with how he does things.
You know, this part of your post struck me, because I think the one player everyone references when talking about this is the N'Keal Harry pick. That's when the narrative started that Bill didn't listen to his scouts and just went with the guys he liked began.
So last night, I was tossing around in my head where this came from.
This was reported back in 2021 by Albert Breer in SI. You have to do some digging to locate the original piece, and even then, you find it amongst a much longer piece in an MMBQB article. This is it: https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/05/mmqb-sean-payton-drew-brees-taysom-hill-jameis-winston-competition
In there, Breer uses this quote from Kraft as a jumping off point "One comment from Patriots owner Robert Kraft flew under the radar this week, but really shouldn’t have. Here it is: “In the end, if you want to have a good, consistent, winning football team, you can’t do it in free agency. You have to do it through the draft. I don’t feel we’ve done the greatest job the last few years and I really hope, and I believe, I’ve seen a different approach this year.”
Then Breer went here "That Kraft wants better draft results, when you look at how the Patriots have done of late, isn’t a surprise. But a different approach? What does that mean? Well, in the past, Bill Belichick’s had a very closed-off process and, in his defense, for the most part it’s worked. But it’s also led to personnel people feeling like they were actively cut out where other teams’ people weren’t. In essence, the Patriots’ scouts would do their jobs through the season and then hand off the process to Belichick and the coaches in February, with only a couple guys on the personnel side really consistently involved from that point forward. Where most teams had draft meetings with their scouts in February and April, the Patriots would have theirs with scouts in December and February. And at that early point, it’s tough to set the board, with two and a half months of information still to come. So from there on, the scouts would just be gatherers, which frustrated plenty of them, and played into the exodus in the scouting department the last few years."
There is no "source" identified, there are no quotes, it's just Breer making a statement that BB ignores his scouts. Where does Breer get that information? Nobody knows, but let's think about it:
On 10/6/23, Breer was saying he didn't think Belichick would be fired at year's end. But when you read the article, it kind of sounds like he does: https://985thesportshub.com/2023/10/06/albert-breer-doubts-patriots-will-fire-bill-belichick-but-suggests-possible-2024-exit-scenario/
But just two weeks later, Breer is on Cowherd's program saying discussions have taken place regarding Bill's firing and he's dropping these quotes and implying pretty strongly that Mayo would be the next head coach: https://www.patsfans.com/patriots/blog/2023/10/20/breer-discussions-on-firing-belichick-have-taken-place-adding-a-gm-also-possible/
According to Breer, Kraft is obviously upset with the current state of the football team, and it sounds like the club actually started working toward some significant changes as it was under Belichick going back to early this offseason.
“These discussions have taken place, and I can tell you for sure, I mean, Robert hears the criticism,” said Breer. “He hears the anger locally, and people in the building know for a fact that he’s hearing the anger from the fan base, and he’s very cognisant of where his team is in the pecking order of NFL teams as well.”
“They’re not a marquee team anymore, and he took a lot of pride in them being a marquee team for two decades, right up there with teams like the Cowboys, like the Eagles, like the Giants had been traditionally. So I think there’s all of that that sort of plays into this.”
It was Breer who was first reporting that BB's sons received offers from the Pats to remain on the staff: https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/01/15/nfl-wild-card-takeaways-packers-jordan-mvp-level
And it was Breer who dropped the tidbit that BB didn't like Samuel and AJ Brown because of how much fun they had on their joint visit: https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/01/11/bill-belichick-aj-brown-deebo-samuel-visit-nkeal-harry-patriots-eagles-49ers
Bottom line, this public questioning of moves by Bill didn't start recently, but it seems as though a lot of what we believe to be true (or is now accepted as true) comes from Albert Breer, who IMO, is the guy you listen to when you want to hear what Robert Kraft wants to put out there.