The Krafts
- Thread starter Red Averages
- Start date
Kraft repeatedly said Ridley's decision wasn't about money, blaming it on Ridley's girlfriend and suggesting that the Pats would have gone higher but it wouldn't have mattered. Wolf just said the reason was "another team offered more money."
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2024/04/18/eliot-wolf-offers-blunt-reason-why-patriots-werent-able-to-sign-calvin-ridley/
Wolf is playing the agent-speak game. He wants to be GM for a long time (be it with New England or with a hypothetical future team), and has no reason to get players or their agents irritated with him by airing their personal situations to the press. Better just to say "he got offered more elsewhere", even if it's not the complete truth. Let Kraft play the "crazy uncle we keep upstairs" role. I'm sure Wolf told Kraft that he was going to say this about Ridley if he was ever asked about it by the press.
One thing that annoyed me in the documentary was Kraft saying he's a "self-made man" when he:
- Married Myra
- Then got a high-ranking job at the company her father owned
- Then gained control of the company through a leveraged buyout
Maybe it's me, but I don't think marrying into a position at a company qualifies as "self-made." It glosses over the hardest part of being successful, which is getting that first break.
- Married Myra
- Then got a high-ranking job at the company her father owned
- Then gained control of the company through a leveraged buyout
Maybe it's me, but I don't think marrying into a position at a company qualifies as "self-made." It glosses over the hardest part of being successful, which is getting that first break.
Maybe Bill should look at what Tito did when getting badmouthed on the way out of town. Wrote a book with CHB, told his side of the story, got another job and did pretty damn good.
Kraft was a "good"/shrewd businessman in the sense that he has played his cards right to achieve phenomenal wealth. I don't remember the details as its been a long time, but my general recollection is that he was pretty shrewd - or you could say cutthroat - in acquiring the Patriots to begin with. But, it's been a long time, so maybe I don't remember it correctly. I say "good" in that I view that kind of business - being good at negotiating the sort of "Art of the Deal" sort of stuff as different than being a businessman who's a bit more of an innovator / visionary. It's not like Kraft came up with some kind of great new idea on how to market the NFL. He was very good at taking an established product and making lots of money off of it. Heck, some people fail at doing that all the time - so it's harder than it looks.
First thing he did was in 1985 he bought the Foxboro Raceway and surrounding land around Foxboro Stadium as leverage to prevent the Sullivans from hosting non football events when races were happening. Second he bought Foxboro Stadium out of bankruptcy court in 1988 for 22 million. Major overpay as the stadium was a worthless dump. The key was that it came with an ironclad lease for the Patriots that ran through 2001. Orthwein wanted to take the team to St. Louis and tried to buy out the lease for 75 million but was turned down and then Kraft outright bought them from Orthwein at a ridiculous price of 172 million.
It's fair to say the New England Patriots may not even be here today without Robert Kraft.
It's also fair to say that Robert Kraft's view on how much he is responsible for the on-field success of the Patriots is very likely vastly overestimated, and that the documentary was produced in order for him to show the world how much he thought the credit should go to him.
Almost no one I've ever spoken to or read something from has anything nice to say about Jonathan Kraft. As Death pointed out, that doesn't necessarily mean that Jonathan isn't good at his job (the Sean McDonough comparison was spot on), but it does make me nervous about the future of the team because we do not yet know if Jonathan has enough sense to hire good football people and then get the hell out of the way, like his father did. And while Clark Hunt is doing OK in KC, other failsons around the league like Marc Davis and Mike Brown are not. It remains to be see where Jonathan will fall on the child of an owner spectrum.
It's also fair to say that Robert Kraft's view on how much he is responsible for the on-field success of the Patriots is very likely vastly overestimated, and that the documentary was produced in order for him to show the world how much he thought the credit should go to him.
Almost no one I've ever spoken to or read something from has anything nice to say about Jonathan Kraft. As Death pointed out, that doesn't necessarily mean that Jonathan isn't good at his job (the Sean McDonough comparison was spot on), but it does make me nervous about the future of the team because we do not yet know if Jonathan has enough sense to hire good football people and then get the hell out of the way, like his father did. And while Clark Hunt is doing OK in KC, other failsons around the league like Marc Davis and Mike Brown are not. It remains to be see where Jonathan will fall on the child of an owner spectrum.
Clark Hunt is doing ok in KC because I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people on SoSH could do ok owning a team with Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes. Weren't they dead last in the player satisfaction survey by the NFLPA?
If Drake Maye becomes the player his 90th percentile outcome indicates he would be, I'm certain Jonathan Kraft will do a great job as Patriots owner.
I don't see any reports of Clark Hunt meddling with Reid and Mahomes. That is Job 1 of an NFL owner. The player satisfaction stuff isn't any concern to the fans.
Guys like Snyder never figured that out. The documentary gives a lot of hints that Robert and Jonathan LONG to be more involved in the football operations process.
It remains to be seen if Jonathan has enough common sense to stay the hell away from anything involving the play on the field.
Which hints are those? I'm asking honestly. People have been saying this a lot, and I haven't seen any of it. Kraft has tried to take credit by making himself to be the moderator whose influence kept the egos in check and allowed for a successful working relationship to continue, where exactly has he taken credit for football decisions or left hints that he wants more involvement in that process?
It was reported that BB wanted to trade Mac after Year and Kraft didn't let him because he saw Mac as "another son." First one that comes to mind, the doc shows tons of second-guessing on BB's football decisions that indicate the Krafts wanted more input.
What we are missing from the media reports is the symptoms vs the root cause?
Did the Krafts decide at one point they needed to have more input into football decisions, and that caused the relationship with Bill to sour? Or did the working relationship get to a point that the questioning of decisions was just the natural outcome of the deterioration of the relationship?
I mean, if Bill went to Kraft and said "We need to trade Mac now", and Kraft said "under no circumstances", then it would at least point to former.
But if it was Bill going "I really do think we should look into trading Mac Jones", and RK's reply was "Are you sure? You can do it, just know that I'm not in favor, and would prefer that we hire Bill O'Brien instead", seems more like the latter.
Eh, I don't think you'll find a single report that states Kraft "didn't let" Bill trade Mac. You'll find some that say he opposed the move.
Oh nice.
This is great news for the franchise. Let Jonathan become the new face of the Patriots. He's so likable.
I honestly don't care if he's likable or not. I'm just quailing at the thought that he is in any way involved in on-field decision making.
Absolute worst case scenario from an ownership perspective. I believed most of the Jonathan stuff was talk radio BS but this news, explicitly stating Jonathan is involved, really gives me pause.
listen if we've learned anything about running a sports franchise it's that having owners and their kids make decisions they are totally unqualified for is a strong way to build.
Are you guys old farts like I am and remember Kraft at the practice field timing CBs with a stopwatch? It was when Carroll was the coach, it was the most cringeworthy shit imaginable. For 25 or more years Robert and Jonathan seem to have been dying to show the world that they are football experts. We're about to find out where they fall on that spectrum.
God we're so effed.
God we're so effed.
Assuming that tweet holds any water, then yes, we are very very very effed.
Cross-posting from the other thread, but this doesn't bother me. Trading the 14th pick is a hell of a lot different than trading the 3rd pick. Hell even when Bill traded out of 7 down to 10 for Mayo, he was doing so with a signed, prime Brady. Of course ownership would be involved in such a monumental decision. This isn't news.
Meh, they would approve it sure, being heavily involved... that's bad to me. You need to give your GM any guidelines you have and then let him do his job.
How the turns have tabled in just a few weeks.
View: https://twitter.com/ByMarkDaniels/status/1772234821135126642
View: https://twitter.com/ByMarkDaniels/status/1772234821135126642
I see both sides of this. He may be "heavily involved" in looking at the offers.
He's not involved in picking any players, but surely wants to see what teams are offering for that pick.
He's not involved in picking any players, but surely wants to see what teams are offering for that pick.
That was also a response to other reporters saying Jonathan was going to be more involved.
The Kraft’s being meddlesome shouldn’t surprise anyone if these reports are true. They forced Parcells to relinquish Christian Peter’s draft rights shortly after the draft after his DV situation became public knowledge (and back then, perhaps even now, a mid round pick with a DV wouldn’t be seen as an automatic “get this guy off the roster” by most teams). Forced Bobby Grier into more power leading to Parcells leaving and ultimately the deterioration of the roster pre-Belichick. Meanwhile, in retrospect the Parcells drafts produced better talent and more key Dynasty contributors than the Grier/Caroll drafts. There were plenty of reports from the late 90’s that he was often giving Carroll/Grier “input” on players etc
I think Belichick’s personality and the run of unprecedented success (and thus attention and increased franchise value) forced Bob into the shadows a bit. Many of us assumed he has just learned his lesson, leave football stuff to the football guys. But perhaps he didn’t learn, he was just willing to be behind the scenes because he didn’t want to mess with the Belichick recipe for success. Once the Lombardis stopped flowing in and the team became a bottom dweller, perhaps he (or Jonathan) felt it was time to get back into the football side of things.
I don’t know how much stock I’d put into today’s report of Jonathan being “heavily involved” but it certainly wouldn’t come as a surprise.
I think Belichick’s personality and the run of unprecedented success (and thus attention and increased franchise value) forced Bob into the shadows a bit. Many of us assumed he has just learned his lesson, leave football stuff to the football guys. But perhaps he didn’t learn, he was just willing to be behind the scenes because he didn’t want to mess with the Belichick recipe for success. Once the Lombardis stopped flowing in and the team became a bottom dweller, perhaps he (or Jonathan) felt it was time to get back into the football side of things.
I don’t know how much stock I’d put into today’s report of Jonathan being “heavily involved” but it certainly wouldn’t come as a surprise.
Keep in mind that Eliot Wolf is not formally listed as GM. He is still listed as Director of Scouting, and Matt Groh is still listed as Director of Player Personnel. Meanwhile, the "Front Office" link at patriots.com lists only the Krafts.
https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/will-eliot-wolf-remain-patriots-gm-smoking-gun-front-office-plans/591601/
The expectation is, of course, that Wolf will be formally named GM after the draft. This arrangement is not unusual; Bobby Grier was involved with the team through the 2000 draft. However, given the current organizational structure, it is indeed possible that Jonathan is involved. Whether he is making football decisions, or being asked to be the final arbiter in the event of any disagreements, is not something one can determine by the Xitter posts above.
https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/will-eliot-wolf-remain-patriots-gm-smoking-gun-front-office-plans/591601/
The expectation is, of course, that Wolf will be formally named GM after the draft. This arrangement is not unusual; Bobby Grier was involved with the team through the 2000 draft. However, given the current organizational structure, it is indeed possible that Jonathan is involved. Whether he is making football decisions, or being asked to be the final arbiter in the event of any disagreements, is not something one can determine by the Xitter posts above.
I guess this comes off as pro-owner, but I am not bothered by the "heavily involved" comments. I view that as a signal to the fanbase at large that Jonathan wants to at least appear to be trying. "Hey guys, the last few seasons have been tough, but we're all working hard to fix it" kind of a thing, rather than "things are so bad and we have hired so many screw-ups outside of Bill that I need to step in and correct this mess of our own making". YMMV.
ETA: To be clear, I doubt - though I admittedly have no idea for sure - that Jonathan is sitting there giving his opinion on Daniels' or Maye's acumen, or what he thinks of Dallas Turner and if the Pats try to trade around to acquire him or anything else. I think him being "heavily involved" is just trying to reassure a fanbase that sees someone like JWH's demeanor as aloof and disinterested and is trying to avoid that.
ETA: To be clear, I doubt - though I admittedly have no idea for sure - that Jonathan is sitting there giving his opinion on Daniels' or Maye's acumen, or what he thinks of Dallas Turner and if the Pats try to trade around to acquire him or anything else. I think him being "heavily involved" is just trying to reassure a fanbase that sees someone like JWH's demeanor as aloof and disinterested and is trying to avoid that.
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I dunno, working hard to fix it would have been to do an exhausting and comprehensive search for HC and GM instead of just promoting guys internally
Their actions this off-season seem to say “Bill was the only problem, everything is just fine now that he’s gone”
whether or not it works out for the Krafts remains to be seen but they certainly took the easiest path forward
See the problem to me is.... if he thinks that announcing he's heavily involved will be a POSITIVE to the fanbase he's delusional. Nobody wants their owner's son making football decisions. He literally 2 months ago had to respond to rumors he wanted to be the GM, and said he didn't want any involvement in football decisions. If he thinks that Patriots fans are longing for the re-assurance that he's involved... he's got an even bigger ego than his dad.
It could also be a leak not to the fanbase (who I agree will not be excited about JK being involved) but to other teams to show that the Pats are serious about fielding offers for the pick.
Wolf wasn't my first choice either, but no matter what happens the new team is going to be compared to BB and is probably going to fall short. They went outside the org? Have you *seen* the failure rate of retreads and college coaches and coordinators who hit the peter principle? What are you doing, you should have hired from within with that all-world defense! But also, you hired from within the organization? That same group of assholes who assembled that putrid offense? I am not sure that there is any solution that was a guaranteed home run for everyone. And if they did an "exhaustive and comprehensive search" and ended up with... Wolf and Mayo, would that have been better?
I don't agree with you on lots of things, but I do agree with you here. I think most fans would not be re-assured by this, but I think a lot of owners *think* it helps and probably makes them feel better. The same way that a lot of CEOs say shit like "we're all taking cutbacks here, I reduced my salary 10%!" and means that their salary goes from $400K to 360K, but their bonus stays the same at $12 million. In other words, I agree that I don't think its having the effect that Jonathan wants to believe it has.
Sure, that could definitely be it. I was pushing back at the idea that fans would have any interest in that.
I think there are two potential things that could be going on:
1. Kraft is muscling in on player personnel space.
2. Wolf is running the show, but he's making it clear Kraft has his back, and that's being taken as "involvement" rather than just support.
The decision on whether to pick a QB at #3 or trade down is a pretty big freaking decision. I don't begrudge the Krafts at all from having some seat at the table or being consulted or whatever you want to call it. It's a completely different level of interference if they were weighing in on which LT to pick in the 2nd round.
Right, but then the decision whether to draft a QB or not is no longer “doing what’s best for the team” or “following our draft evaluations” or whatever other cliche personnel guys would use to justify those moves. By adding the Krafts - other than just telling them this is our plan - you’re injecting the business/PR aspect into the decision which is not something anyone should be happy about.
What input are the Krafts going to have that will actually be net positive for the roster building? They should trust the guys they dumped Belichick for, presumably because they think Wolf/Groh are the right people to get the team back to the playoffs.
Meanwhile, this complete dickcheese has chimed in, if only to further illustrate how bad of an idea robust Kraft involvement would be.
View: https://twitter.com/mikesilver/status/1782496363378557181?s=46&t=1S4eWjX_rzBBrpPNddRPAg
View: https://twitter.com/mikesilver/status/1782496363378557181?s=46&t=1S4eWjX_rzBBrpPNddRPAg
the same people who think the 20 year run of success was all due to Brady and BB is the worst GM in the league who probably held back Brady from winning 10+ Lombardis with the Pats.
Bill the overrated, ego maniacal control freak boogie man isn’t exactly an unheard of narrative these days.
In fairness to Jonathan...
Phil Perry and Tom Curran apparently said that he (and Bob) want to be kept in the loop on the front office's thinking and discussions, but have still made clear that Wolf will have final say.
that's pretty reasonable (though not what I would normally consider "heavily involved", wonder if Russini's source was the other side of a trade call stirring the pot a bit)
Phil Perry and Tom Curran apparently said that he (and Bob) want to be kept in the loop on the front office's thinking and discussions, but have still made clear that Wolf will have final say.
that's pretty reasonable (though not what I would normally consider "heavily involved", wonder if Russini's source was the other side of a trade call stirring the pot a bit)
"Taking back their team" - yeah because letting Belichick run things was so terribly awful, it only led to Brady, nine Super Bowl appearances, and six Lombardis. I'm sure Jonathan can do as well as that.
This is a good place for RK to focus.
Patriots owner Robert Kraft pulls support for Columbia amid ‘virulent hate’ on campus
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/robert-kraft-pulls-support-columbia-00153739
Patriots owner Robert Kraft pulls support for Columbia amid ‘virulent hate’ on campus
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/robert-kraft-pulls-support-columbia-00153739
