The NFL and the National Anthem

Gunfighter 09

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But the display itself costs tax dollars, right? Wouldn't most Americans prefer to see their tax dollars used to repair crumbling bridges or to provide healthcare for those who don't have it rather than on some useless fucking circle jerk? I know I would.

Not really, military flight hours are programmed years in advance, those flight hours are being flown regardless of whether or not they fly over a football game.

As to the training value of the fly over evolution, it isn’t the highest level flight training but there is lots of good coordination, planning and flight leadership work that comes with doing a flyover. Purely from a “does this make our aircrew better” perspective, flyovers are not a terrible use of flight time.
 

Bosoxen

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Fair enough. And flyovers are generally only done at the bigger events - like the ones you mentioned in your prior post - so that's really the least offensive part of the whole charade.
 

Spelunker

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Malcolm Jenkins making it more clear to those that think these protests haven't been explained enough.


There's a great slide on there about McCourty, Harmon, Slater, and Bademosi that I wasn't aware of.



You can see shots of all his cards here.


 

Eddie Jurak

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There's an important point that needs to be made about kneeling in general.

Until a black player concerned about state-sanctioned violence against black people knelt, kneeling was universally seen as a sign of subservience. Many Christians kneel in Church, for example - do they do so out of disrespect?

Colin Kaepernick's decision to kneel during the anthem, was, if anything, a peaceful gesture of subservience.
 

Reverend

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Malcolm Jenkins making it more clear to those that think these protests haven't been explained enough.


There's a great slide on there about McCourty, Harmon, Slater, and Bademosi that I wasn't aware of.



You can see shots of all his cards here.


I love this response to the claims that they aren't being clear.
 

LondonSox

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If you think that's my feeling, I think you read my post wrong. I'm saying that there are definitely many members of the NFLPA who hate that fact that their teammates/union brothers want to kneel.
I guess there must be, but I would assume they would talk to their own teammates so they understand it's not disrespectful.
It's hard to think that once you talk to someone.
 

lars10

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I guess there must be, but I would assume they would talk to their own teammates so they understand it's not disrespectful.
It's hard to think that once you talk to someone.
Also.. if there are other members that hate that others want to kneel... why does that matter at all?
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Also.. if there are other members that hate that others want to kneel... why does that matter at all?
Originally, I was responding to a post that suggested every team take the option to remain in the locker room. That simply won't fly with many players as they probably believe that the NFL and Trump are right and Kaepernick and the protests are wrong.
 

BigJimEd

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I guess there must be, but I would assume they would talk to their own teammates so they understand it's not disrespectful.
It's hard to think that once you talk to someone.
Is it?
I assume most have talked to their teammates about it. The vast majority probably understand why and have no ill feelings towards those protesting. And understand they MEAN no disrespect.

That doesn't mean they necessarily agree with kneeing during the anthem. They can still want to show their support for the anthem by standing out there.

There is a difference there. If you talked to someone who feels it is disrespectful it is not hard to understand their point of view. That doesn't mean I have to agree with them though.

Nate Boyer felt it was disrespectful sitting but not kneeing (or at least less so). That was where he apparently drew the line, others see it differently.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Man, Malcolm Jenkins and Chris Long are making it really, really hard for me to continue hating the Eagles.
 

shaggydog2000

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Man, Malcolm Jenkins and Chris Long are making it really, really hard for me to continue hating the Eagles.
Eh, just read any story involving Eagles fans and it becomes a lot easier. And I say that as someone whose best friend is an Eagles fan.
 

lars10

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Originally, I was responding to a post that suggested every team take the option to remain in the locker room. That simply won't fly with many players as they probably believe that the NFL and Trump are right and Kaepernick and the protests are wrong.
Ah ok. I missed the context.
 

reggiecleveland

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I teach ESL and the national anthem as a sacred Hymn is mostly a North American thing. I made up a fun quiz on national anthems and many kids could not recognise their own. Many of them find it quite strange that Canada is so relaxed and informal but takes a song so seriously. Lately. in western Canada at least, the same aggressive nationalism is being attached to the anthem. A few times teachers have even said, "People have died for that song" when kids are fidgeting or forget to take off their hat. (forget that it became our anthem officially in 1980, and that the more conservative people sang "God Save the Queen' until 1980 ) Honestly I could do without beginning the school day with O Canada. A kid from China told me "O Canada' was the only part of the day that reminded him of school in China where there was pressure to fit in. Not a glowing endorsement.

Some players on my team high school basketball team were planning on kneeling before games. I spoke to them and told them as long as they had a good reason, I would support their right to kneel. We came to the conclusion that they only really wanted to do it because they saw guys on TV doing it. I asked them to read about why Kaepernick was doing it and decide for themselves. I would have been fine if they had taken the next step to see that racism is not just an american problem. Half my team is immigrants, mostly black kids from North Africa and Jamaica. They had a thoughtful discussion saying they thought the current Canadian government was positive for immigrants, so decided to sing rather than kneel. I gave them my two cents that if the government changes they should not just start kneeling and make it a partisan issue where some kids kneel when the Liberals are in power and others when the Conservatives are in power. I made it clear they had the right to kneel, but should prepare themselves for the consequences, and be able to answer questions.
 
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dbn

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I teach ESL and the national anthem as a sacred Hymn is mostly a North American thing. I made up a fun quiz on national anthems and many kids could not recognise their own. Many of them find it quite strange that Canada is so relaxed and informal but takes a song so seriously. Lately. in western Canada at least, the same aggressive nationalism is being attached to the anthem. A few times teachers have even said, "People have died for that song" when kids are fidgeting or forget to take off their hat. (forget that it became our anthem officially in 1980, and that the more conservative people sand "God Save the Queen' until 1980 ) Honestly I could do without beginning the school day with O Canada. A kid from China told me "O Canada' was the only part of the day that reminded him of school in China where there was pressure to fit in. Not a glowing endorsement.

Some players on my team high school basketball team were planning on kneeling before games. I spoke to them and told them as long as they had a good reason, I would support their right to kneel. We came to the conclusion that they only really wanted to do it because they saw guys on TV doing it. I asked them to read about why Kaepernick was doing it and decide for themselves. I would have been fine if they had taken the next step to see that racism is not just an american problem. Half my team is immigrants, mostly black kids from North Africa and Jamaica. They had a thoughtful discussion saying they thought the current Canadian government was positive for immigrants, so decided to sing rather than kneel. I gave them my two cents that if the government changes they should not just start kneeling and make it a partisan issue where some kids kneel when the Liberals are in power and others when the Conservatives are in power. I made it clear they had the right to kneel, but should prepare themselves for the consequences, and be able to answer questions.
Thank you.
 

reggiecleveland

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Thank you.
Not sure what the thanks is for but, I will take it.

I will also say that twenty years ago I would have snapped on the kids that wanted to kneel and been an ass going off about how great Canada was, and how they should appreciate it.

This whole thing reminds of the book Black Like Me. I remember reading that one of the reactions to the book was the utter shock that white people had at finding out black people were unhappy.
 

dbn

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Not sure what the thanks is for but, I will take it.

I will also say that twenty years ago I would have snapped on the kids that wanted to kneel and been an ass going off about how great Canada was, and how they should appreciate it.

This whole thing reminds of the book Black Like Me. I remember reading that one of the reactions to the book was the utter shock that white people had at finding out black people were unhappy.
For mentoring kids in the way that you describe. We shouldn't coerce kids into thinking the way we do. We should coerce kids into thinking.
 

Reverend

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Not sure what the thanks is for but, I will take it.

I will also say that twenty years ago I would have snapped on the kids that wanted to kneel and been an ass going off about how great Canada was, and how they should appreciate it.

This whole thing reminds of the book Black Like Me. I remember reading that one of the reactions to the book was the utter shock that white people had at finding out black people were unhappy.
For mentoring kids in the way that you describe. We shouldn't coerce kids into thinking the way we do. We should coerce kids into thinking.
This was my reaction too.

Thank you.

That's some good teaching/raising kids/education/living.
 

E5 Yaz

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How can The Onion compete?

Trump said he would consider pardon applications submitted by players who have participated in protests during the anthem.

"I'm going to ask them to recommend to me people that were unfairly treated -- friends of theirs or people that they know about -- and I'm going to take a look at those applications," he said. "And if I find, and my committee finds, that they're unfairly treated, then we will pardon them or at least let them out."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23732696/president-trump-says-invite-nba-champion-white-house
 

reggiecleveland

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Is he saying he will pardon people to get individual players to stand for the anthem?

Can he use his presidential power to bring people wrongly shot by police back to life?
 
Jun 2, 2016
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This was apparently taken in Gettysburg PA
View attachment 21630
Oof. I live 15 minutes from there, but this is the first I have seen or heard of this abomination. I believe James Carville once said that Pennsylvania is Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west, and Alabama in the middle. Although there is a little truth to that statement, this clown definitely is not helping that perception.
 

joe dokes

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Oof. I live 15 minutes from there, but this is the first I have seen or heard of this abomination. I believe James Carville once said that Pennsylvania is Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west, and Alabama in the middle. Although there is a little truth to that statement, this clown definitely is not helping that perception.
Nor are these:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/08/donald-trump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

More than anything, what seemed to upset the people I spoke with was the National Football League players who have knelt during the national anthem to protest police brutality and racial inequality.
“As far as I’m concerned,” Frear told me, “if I was the boss of these teams, I would tell ’em, ‘You get your asses out there and you play, or you’re not here anymore.’ They’re paying their salaries, for God’s sake.”
“Shame on them,” Del Signore said over his alfredo. “These clowns are out there, making millions of dollars a year, and they’re using some stupid excuse that they want equality—so I’ll kneel against the flag and the national anthem?”
“You’re not a fan of equality?” I asked.
“For people who deserve it and earn it,” he said. “All my ancestors, Italian, 100 percent Italian, the Irish, Germans, Polish, whatever—they all came over here, settled in places like this, they worked hard and they earned the respect. They earned the success that they got. Some people don’t want to do that. They just want it handed to them.”
“Like NFL players?” I said.
“Well,” Del Signore responded, “I hate to say what the majority of them are …” He stopped himself short of what I thought he was about to say.

Schilling and her husband, however, did not restrain themselves.
“The thing that irritates me to no end is this NFL shit,” Schilling told me in her living room. “I’m about ready to go over the top with this shit. We do not watch no NFL now.” They’re Dallas Cowboys fans. “We banned ’em. We don’t watch it.”
Schilling looked at her husband, Dave McCabe, who’s 67 and a retired high school basketball coach. She nodded at me. “Tell him,” she said to McCabe, “what you said the NFL is …”
McCabe looked momentarily wary. He laughed a little. “I don’t remember saying that,” he said unconvincingly.
Schilling was having none of it. “You’re the one that told me, liar,” she said.
She looked at me.
The NFL?
“Niggers for life,” Schilling said.
“For life,” McCabe added.
 

soxhop411

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I love how this is who the NFL is trying to cater to, by backing down from Trump and Co...
 

Average Reds

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Oof. I live 15 minutes from there, but this is the first I have seen or heard of this abomination. I believe James Carville once said that Pennsylvania is Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west, and Alabama in the middle. Although there is a little truth to that statement, this clown definitely is not helping that perception.
I'm a Pennsylvania native and my family/in-laws still live there. I went to college in the middle of the state. There's more than a little truth to the stereotype.

That image is disheartening, but utterly unsurprising.
 

Reverend

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I am forever fascinated by the position that earning one's way onto an NFL roster is somehow seen as arbitrarily and unfairly winning the lottery.

Especially when certain other things are... not... seen that way.
 

joe dokes

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I am forever fascinated by the position that earning one's way onto an NFL roster is somehow seen as arbitrarily and unfairly winning the lottery.

Especially when certain other things are... not... seen that way.
It is a bit reminiscent of Michael Jordans complaint about the relative media descriptions of him and Bird. (Paraphrasing) "he works his ass off and I came out of the womb dribbling a basketball and never had to practice "
 

Reverend

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It is a bit reminiscent of Michael Jordans complaint about the relative media descriptions of him and Bird. (Paraphrasing) "he works his ass off and I came out of the womb dribbling a basketball and never had to practice "
Dude, WTF?? This is a baseball board.

Cal Ripken, Jr. v Rickey Henderson is the preferred reference! ;)


[Thanks for that reference--I didn't know that one and am adding it to the pile.]
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Oof. I live 15 minutes from there, but this is the first I have seen or heard of this abomination. I believe James Carville once said that Pennsylvania is Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west, and Alabama in the middle. Although there is a little truth to that statement, this clown definitely is not helping that perception.
Dropping my son off at ID camps in Lancaster this coming weekend, and G-burg a few weekends after that, so I'm expecting the grand tour. Carlisle yesterday appeared quite nice.
 

joe dokes

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Dropping my son off at ID camps in Lancaster this coming weekend, and G-burg a few weekends after that, so I'm expecting the grand tour. Carlisle yesterday appeared quite nice.
Given the experience of my wife's aunt and her wife in Lancaster, I think Lancaster may be east of the Alabamavania border.
 

kartvelo

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On the morning of November 9, 2016, my 12-year-old black niece living in Carlisle arrived at school and was accosted by a classmate who exulted that now that Trump was in charge she'd be deported.

Her black father, a retired Air Force colonel, was born and raised in Atlanta.
 

Marciano490

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Given the experience of my wife's aunt and her wife in Lancaster, I think Lancaster may be east of the Alabamavania border.
I was always partial to Pennsyltucky.

Lancaster has a lot of puppies for some reason, so that should be adorable.
 

Reverend

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On the morning of November 9, 2016, my 12-year-old black niece living in Carlisle arrived at school and was accosted by a classmate who exulted that now that Trump was in charge she'd be deported.

Her black father, a retired Air Force colonel, was born and raised in Atlanta.
That's almost as bad as being from the North.
 

MB's Hidden Ball

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On the morning of November 9, 2016, my 12-year-old black niece living in Carlisle arrived at school and was accosted by a classmate who exulted that now that Trump was in charge she'd be deported.

Her black father, a retired Air Force colonel, was born and raised in Atlanta.
I was living in Carlisle in November 2016, and that story doesn’t surprise me in the least. It’s a weird place. I know we have at least one native here on the board.
 

InstaFace

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I've seen more confederate flags in pennsyltucky than I have in the (substantially greater) time I've spent in Texas. It's an odd place.
When I saw the name Schilling there....
You may not be entirely wrong. G38 was born in Alaska, but his parents were from western PA and he grew up a Steelers / Pirates fan. It's not that common a name, wouldn't be surprised if it were a distant relative.
 

Reverend

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I've seen more confederate flags in pennsyltucky than I have in the (substantially greater) time I've spent in Texas. It's an odd place.

You may not be entirely wrong. G38 was born in Alaska, but his parents were from western PA and he grew up a Steelers / Pirates fan. It's not that common a name, wouldn't be surprised if it were a distant relative.
I just want to take this moment to point out that Alaska's economy is socialist. :D
 

SMU_Sox

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First college I went to was Dickinson in Carlisle PA and I grew up 10 minutes outside of the Philadelphia city limits. I went to Dickinson in 2004 and volunteered for the Kerry campaign there.

Rural Pa does have some differences with the Amish and Menonites (spelling on mobile) but excluding them... bottom line is you see the same ratio of truck nuts to trucks on the road and confederate flags are much more common in rural PA.

I don’t think this is just Pennsylvania or Pennsylvania is much worse than other states with large rural areas. YMMV.