The OC Search

[Shelterdog]

I don’t think Bill makes many multi-year plans. He’s more about the full time, all the time, grind. Yes, he tries to chart the development of players and coaches to build organizational depth, resilience, etc. but he would never do anything other than “what’s in the best interests of the team” right now. He made two big mistakes here: Not having a good succession plan for McDaniels’ departure, which he had to at least expect was likely at some point; and misjudging Patricia and Judge’s competence and/or fit with Mac. Now he’s back to the grind to fix it, probably for 16+ hours a day.

He absolutely makes multi year plans; assistant coaches do ascend up the ranks here, players are added who won't contribute right away (you're often better able to understand his high draft picks if you look at the team's needs two years away than next year for example). Just sometimes the plan doesn't work--the succession plan for McDaniels was for one of the young coaches to be ready to take the reins and clearly he didn't think Caley/Lombardi/even a Bo Hardegree or Sunseri were up to the job

 

[tims4wins]

He absolutely makes multi year plans; assistant coaches do ascend up the ranks here, players are added who won't contribute right away (you're often better able to understand his high draft picks if you look at the team's needs two years away than next year for example). Just sometimes the plan doesn't work--the succession plan for McDaniels was for one of the young coaches to be ready to take the reins and clearly he didn't think Caley/Lombardi/even a Bo Hardegree or Sunseri were up to the job

Another example is taking a guy at a position a year before the incumbent is a FA or ready to retire. E.g., Solder/Light, White/Vereen, and maybe even Mayo/Bruschi.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

He absolutely makes multi year plans; assistant coaches do ascend up the ranks here, players are added who won't contribute right away (you're often better able to understand his high draft picks if you look at the team's needs two years away than next year for example). Just sometimes the plan doesn't work--the succession plan for McDaniels was for one of the young coaches to be ready to take the reins and clearly he didn't think Caley/Lombardi/even a Bo Hardegree or Sunseri were up to the job

Yeah, you don't have the run of success that BB had by playing it one year at a time, he absolutely plays the long game almost to a fault. The only time I don't think he did this was in Brady's final couple of seasons where he was trying to squeeze one more title into the Brady window.

 

[Justthetippett]

He absolutely makes multi year plans; assistant coaches do ascend up the ranks here, players are added who won't contribute right away (you're often better able to understand his high draft picks if you look at the team's needs two years away than next year for example). Just sometimes the plan doesn't work--the succession plan for McDaniels was for one of the young coaches to be ready to take the reins and clearly he didn't think Caley/Lombardi/even a Bo Hardegree or Sunseri were up to the job

I tried to acknowledge that with my third sentence. I was more trying to explain what I think his priorities are, which is the “now” not down the line. And if he had a succession plan for McDaniels it was a poor one, which we can assess from the actions he took after Josh left.

 

[joe dokes]

There is literally zero chance Bill made the decision to hire Patricia and Judge so they could be the offensive coaches for a year while he waited for BoB to become available. Literally fiction, no matter what the Bedard's of the world claim.

The simplest and most straightforward explanation should be assumed correct until there is actually evidence otherwise. And that is that Bill thought that their familiarity with the system would make them better choices than bringing in new faces with more extensive experience in coaching offenses. It turned out to be the wrong decision for all involved. Sometimes even Belichick makes the wrong decision. But now he has since made a decision to correct that mistake.

Simple, straightforward and most likely. In the words of short-time Faber College offensive coordinator Blutarsky, "Face it Bill, you fucked up. You trusted us." I think that the team announced they were searching for an OC pretty much the moment the final gun sounded in the final game means that BB would say, "yes, I did fuck that up." But that's not enough for a lot of folks. Because in addition to "simple, straightforward and most likely," it is also not nearly malleable enough to be bounced around and squeezed into whatever other narrative one wants to push.

 

[8slim]

McDaniels didn't get hired by the Raiders until 1/31 last year. And when it comes to Josh, you don't consider him actually gone until he's actually gone (and then you still wait a couple more days to be sure). I imagine several potential OC candidates that might have interested Bill were already off the board by early February. And, again, Bill thought Patricia and Judge were the stability play. Guys that would be here a few years.

I mean, what if Patricia was actually good? Would Bill have demoted him because he had some master plan to bring in O'Brien a year later? That's never been how he rolls, and it makes zero sense to me.

He made a decision, it failed spectacularly, and he's rectifying it. Sometimes things are as simple as they seem.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I think Leftwich did a great job getting the most out of Brady and the other veterans on the Tampa Bay offense these past three years. I think he’s unfairly being scapegoated for the Bucs’ disappointing 2022 season. But he’s a better fit for a situation like Denver, or maybe the Jets with a new veteran QB, then he is for New England, where success will depend in large part on developing a young QB. It’s not Leftwich’s fault that he hasn’t done that — the ghost of Bill Walsh couldn’t have turned Jameis Winston or Josh Rosen into a star QB — but where that’s the overriding need, other candidates are going to be a better fit.

Here's the problem with Leftwich, dude has no clue how to coach or call plays in the running game.

In his one year in Arizona as OC, they were 28th in rushing attempts, dead last (32nd) in the NFL in rushing yards, and dead last in yards/attempt. The following year after he left, they went 19th in attempts, 10th in yards and 2nd in y/a. Now, that's the year they got Kyler Murray, and Leftwich did inherit a bad running team when he took over, but it's no better in Tampa.

In Tampa, these his ranks in attempts: 14, 29, 31, 32, his ranks in rushing yards: 24, 26, 28, 32: His ranks in y/a: 28, 25, 15, 32.

Conversely, by passing yards, they finished 1,2,1,2. If you have a passing game that good, you should accidentally be able to run the ball as defenses load up to stop the pass. He could never figure it out. Again, he inherited a bad running team, but in 4 years, he did nothing to make them better, even when adding a GOAT at QB, Fournette in the backfield. In 2021, when they were middle of the pack ranked 15th in yards/attempt, Fournette averaged 4.5, Ronald Jones averaged 4.3, Vaughan averaged 5.0, but instead, he never ran the ball, finishing 31st in attempts.

Leftwich could be a great QB's coach again for someone, but as OC, his hatred for running the ball is always going to be a problem.

 

[soxhop411]

There were times during the 2022 season that Jones was like a teapot – his temper would rise (or boil) before erupting. That’s why it’s fitting that Bill O’Brien could be Jones’ next offensive coordinator. The former Patriots offensive coordinator interviewed with the team on Thursday and is viewed as the favorite.

When O’Brien was first in New England, Tom Brady and Brian Hoyer gave him the nickname “teapot” due to his temper.



In 2011, people got a glimpse when O’Brien and Brady screamed at each other on the sideline. Four years later, when he was the head coach of the Houston Texans, Hoyer told the story of how O’Brien earned his nickname.



During the 2015 season, Hoyer told Houston reporters that O’Brien had a temper that boiled over from time-to-time in Foxborough. For that reason, Hoyer bought an actual teapot. From then on, he and Brady would write stories on the teapot about O’Brien anytime he lost his cool.



“Basically, any time we felt it was justified, we’d put it on the teapot like it was the Stanley Cup,” Hoyer said. “I brought a teapot in one day. Tom and I thought it would be funny to just keep adding to the story. At a certain point, I started writing them down in my notebook. Finally, when we brought the teapot in, we started wrapping them around and eventually it was pretty full.”

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2023/01/bill-obriens-teapot-temper-makes-him-a-good-fit-for-patriots-qb-mac-jones.html

 

[Reverend]

Another example is taking a guy at a position a year before the incumbent is a FA or ready to retire. E.g., Solder/Light, White/Vereen, and maybe even Mayo/Bruschi.

Wasn’t there a lot of chatter about how, when people were initially concerned he might be a bust, that it took receiving backs a couple if years to learn Belichick’s system?

 

[tims4wins]

Wasn’t there a lot of chatter about how, when people were initially concerned he might be a bust, that it took receiving backs a couple if years to learn Belichick’s system?

Neither Vereen nor White did ANYTHING their rookie year

White played in 3 games with 5 catches and 9 carries, then had 62 touches year 2, then 99 year 3, then 99 again year 4, then 181 in year 5
Vereen played in 5 games with 0 catches and 15 carries, then had 70 touches year 2, then 91 in year 3 in only half a season, then 148 in year 4

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Neither Vereen nor White did ANYTHING their rookie year

White played in 3 games with 5 catches and 9 carries, then had 62 touches year 2, then 99 year 3, then 99 again year 4, then 181 in year 5
Vereen played in 5 games with 0 catches and 15 carries, then had 70 touches year 2, then 91 in year 3 in only half a season, then 148 in year 4

Vereen's rookie year was 2011, the lockout year, so he didn't have the typical offseason time to learn the offense, etc., then he battled injuries all year, and he was playing behind Danny Woodhead, and those were the Gronk/Hernandez/Welker years. Not a lot of throws to go around. They got rid of Woodhead and gave him the receiving back role in 2013.

White's rookie season was 2014, playing behind Shane Vereen. They got rid of Vereen, and then White had 40 catches in year 2, but that was also the year they went and brought in Dion Lewis, who gobbled up 36 catches himself. The following season, White had 60 catches, which is a lot for a guy who really was a strict third down back.

Not sure we can really gauge these guys as having a tough time figuring things out, so much as they were just blocked by guys that were still doing their jobs on great teams.

 

[Reverend]

Vereen's rookie year was 2011, the lockout year, so he didn't have the typical offseason time to learn the offense, etc., then he battled injuries all year, and he was playing behind Danny Woodhead, and those were the Gronk/Hernandez/Welker years. Not a lot of throws to go around. They got rid of Woodhead and gave him the receiving back role in 2013.

White's rookie season was 2014, playing behind Shane Vereen. They got rid of Vereen, and then White had 40 catches in year 2, but that was also the year they went and brought in Dion Lewis, who gobbled up 36 catches himself. The following season, White had 60 catches, which is a lot for a guy who really was a strict third down back.

Not sure we can really gauge these guys as having a tough time figuring things out, so much as they were just blocked by guys that were still doing their jobs on great teams.

Of course, what’s striking here is that Belichick always had the guy and then also had the next guy.

 

[BigJimEd]

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2023/01/bill-obriens-teapot-temper-makes-him-a-good-fit-for-patriots-qb-mac-jones.html

That temper could go both ways. If BoB is the guy, we'll see how Mac responds. Difference between how he may receive it as a college athlete than a a professional several years later.


Speaking of BoB, Has O'Brien interviewed anywhere else? I know there is speculation of him for the AZ HC job due to his relationship with the new GM. Any other jobs?

 

[Mystic Merlin]

That temper could go both ways. If BoB is the guy, we'll see how Mac responds. Difference between how he may receive it as a college athlete than a a professional several years later.


Speaking of BoB, Has O'Brien interviewed anywhere else? I know there is speculation of him for the AZ HC job due to his relationship with the new GM. Any other jobs?

I haven’t seen any reports that he has interviewed elsewhere yet.