The Other World Cup, FIBA Hoops Edition

Awesome Fossum · Jul 14, 2014

I'm pleasantly surprised to see Durant's playing again. Is it true that even though the United States treats this tournament as secondary, the rest of the world generally treats this as more important that the Olympics?

Here's a story on the leaked (and incredibly stupid, IMO) USA uniforms:

http://news.sportslogos.net/2014/07/09/usa-basketballs-uniform-for-2014-world-cup-leaks/

Sam Ray Not · Jul 14, 2014

I assume the first-ballot guys are: Durant, George, Curry, Love, A. Davis, Griffin, Harden.

Who else do we want on there?

(FWIW, I think the unis are cool.)

Kliq · Jul 14, 2014

The roster move that puzzles me is that Faried made it over Aldridge. Did Aldridge drop out or decline? The only thing that Faried can do is rebound and finish lobs.

Another thing is that the PGs (Kyrie, Lillard, Rose, Curry) are all shoot-first players. A team as loaded as this doesn't need a PG to score 20+ a game.

Awesome Fossum · Jul 14, 2014

Kliq said:
The roster move that puzzles me is that Faried made it over Aldridge. Did Aldridge drop out or decline? The only thing that Faried can do is rebound and finish lobs.

Another thing is that the PGs (Kyrie, Lillard, Rose, Curry) are all shoot-first players. A team as loaded as this doesn't need a PG to score 20+ a game.

Marc Stein says it's a possibility that John Wall is added to the mix since Westbrook has dropped out.

http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/2669/team-usas-roster-still-loaded

Kliq · Jul 14, 2014

Awesome Fossum said:
Marc Stein says it's a possibility that John Wall is added to the mix since Westbrook has dropped out.

http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/2669/team-usas-roster-still-loaded

Yeah, I really don't know how you can make the case that Irving deserves to be on there more then Wall. Not only do I think Wall is the better player, but he is just such a better fit for the team. Durant, Love and Harden alone are enough fire power to win, they need someone that can dish it. I was very impressed with Wall's maturation as a player this year, sticking to his strengths and improving as a jump shooter (35% on threes). TBH, I would start him. He won't, but I think you would have the best team if it was him, Harden, Durant, Griffin and Davis.

Kliq · Aug 1, 2014

There is a report going around that Mason Plumlee is going to make the team over Boogie Cousins. I don't know if that is a worse sign for the USA and it's lack of committal from its big men, or just how awfully immature Cousins is.

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

Kliq said:
There is a report going around that Mason Plumlee is going to make the team over Boogie Cousins. I don't know if that is a worse sign for the USA and it's lack of committal from its big men, or just how awfully immature Cousins is.

I think it's just a question of system and fit. Plumlee does the things that a big in international play needs to do. It's possible that Cousins could adjust his game to fit what the team needs, but there's a lot of risk there. All of the mid-range jump shots Cousins takes (and he takes a ton of them) are basically worthless in international play, and serve to create spacing issues with the smaller three point line. The Coach K led USA teams basically ask big men to roam a 15 foot area on the baseline offensively and to flash to the block when a shot goes up or a perimeter player penetrates; Cousins spends too much time at the free throw line extended and would be asked to play a role he's not used to. Plumlee just fits what the team needs better, I think.

Kliq · Aug 1, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
I think it's just a question of system and fit. Plumlee does the things that a big in international play needs to do. It's possible that Cousins could adjust his game to fit what the team needs, but there's a lot of risk there. All of the mid-range jump shots Cousins takes (and he takes a ton of them) are basically worthless in international play, and serve to create spacing issues with the smaller three point line. The Coach K led USA teams basically ask big men to roam a 15 foot area on the baseline offensively and to flash to the block when a shot goes up or a perimeter player penetrates; Cousins spends too much time at the free throw line extended and would be asked to play a role he's not used to. Plumlee just fits what the team needs better, I think.

I get that Plumlee naturally does those things better than Boogie, but really, Plumlee over Boogie? Like you said, Cousins has the tools to play 15 feet and in and be very good at it, and Cousins has more going for him in other aspects of his game than Plumlee. Cousins is a better jump shooter (and who knows, he might be a 3pt threat in International Play) and he is a far better passer, which is an extremly useful skill for a big man, especially in International play.

My main concern is that if we are playing Spain, and Davis gets hurt or in foul trouble (and everyone gets in foul trouble) who are we going to use to combat the Gasols? Drummond shoots 30% from the line, so would you rather have Boogie or Plumlee banging with them? I'd take Boogie.

What I think happened was either A) Boogie's attitude once again ruined a great oppurtunity or B) Coach K took the Duke guy and can justify it by saying Plumlee is a better fit.

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

Kliq said:
I get that Plumlee naturally does those things better than Boogie, but really, Plumlee over Boogie? Like you said, Cousins has the tools to play 15 feet and in and be very good at it, and Cousins has more going for him in other aspects of his game than Plumlee. Cousins is a better jump shooter (and who knows, he might be a 3pt threat in International Play) and he is a far better passer, which is an extremly useful skill for a big man, especially in International play.

My main concern is that if we are playing Spain, and Davis gets hurt or in foul trouble (and everyone gets in foul trouble) who are we going to use to combat the Gasols? Drummond shoots 30% from the line, so would you rather have Boogie or Plumlee banging with them? I'd take Boogie.

What I think happened was either A) Boogie's attitude once again ruined a great oppurtunity or B) Coach K took the Duke guy and can justify it by saying Plumlee is a better fit.

With guys like Durant, Curry, Thompson, George, Korver, Lillard, Irving, Rose, Beal, Parsons, and Hayward, the US roster is going to be stacked with shooters. That Cousins has a superior jump shot to Plumlee is irrelevant, because the 5 on that roster shouldn't be taking jump shots. Cousins isn't a great defender yet--he's fine, but not quite good--and I think Plumlee's fit in the system just makes him a better backup Center for this team. It's fun to blame it on Cousins' attitude or Duke hate or whatever, but on court fit seems like the obvious reason to me.

Kliq · Aug 1, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
With guys like Durant, Curry, Thompson, George, Korver, Lillard, Irving, Rose, Beal, Parsons, and Hayward, the US roster is going to be stacked with shooters. That Cousins has a superior jump shot to Plumlee is irrelevant, because the 5 on that roster shouldn't be taking jump shots. Cousins isn't a great defender yet--he's fine, but not quite good--and I think Plumlee's fit in the system just makes him a better backup Center for this team. It's fun to blame it on Cousins' attitude or Duke hate or whatever, but on court fit seems like the obvious reason to me.

I just disagree. Plumlee doesn't do anything on the basketball court better than Cousins other then throw down alley-oops. Okay, maybe Boogie takes too many jumpshots, but you don't think Coach K went over to Boogie and said "Hey, we don't need any of that jumpshot crap, just post up and set picks." And then Boogie probably said "Nah, I'm going to just keep doing this." That means Boogie has an attitude problem and he wasn't willing to change the way he played to play for the USA. Because you can't tell me that Boogie on the block is worse than Plumlee on the block, or Boogie setting screens is worse than Plumlee setting screens.

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

Kliq said:
I just disagree. Plumlee doesn't do anything on the basketball court better than Cousins other then throw down alley-oops. Okay, maybe Boogie takes too many jumpshots, but you don't think Coach K went over to Boogie and said "Hey, we don't need any of that jumpshot crap, just post up and set picks." And then Boogie probably said "Nah, I'm going to just keep doing this." That means Boogie has an attitude problem and he wasn't willing to change the way he played to play for the USA. Because you can't tell me that Boogie on the block is worse than Plumlee on the block, or Boogie setting screens is worse than Plumlee setting screens.

Okay. You're right. That fictional conversation is probably exactly what happened, and it's really easy for professional basketball players to change their roles on the fly and pick up new systems that ask them to do completely different things than the system they practice 340 days a year.

Edit: Also, there are plenty of things Plumlee does better than DeMarcus Cousins. A lot of them are the things team USA needs their backup center to do. You know, like play defense. Have you ever watched Cousins do that? Because until this year, he was atrociously bad at it and this year, all that really improved was his level of effort. He's still lost against the pick and roll, lazy getting back, and puts in about half of the effort that he does on offense. Additionally, you're worried about foul trouble for team USA--a real issue in international play which allows only 5 personal fouls--and you're lobbying in favor of. . .the guy who has fouled out of more games in the last 3 years than anybody else in the NBA. His value to the Kings is as a volume scorer. Team USA needs a volume scorer like they need a hole in their head. The USA basketball program went through their brief malaise because for years they prioritized raw talent over fit. They built All-Star teams instead of teams with an actual, specific strategy in mind. In short, they gave guys like DeMarcus Cousins roster spots and assumed they'd successfully pick up the intricacies of being a role player at a very high level of play in a span of two weeks. This is who Mason Plumlee is. This is what he did last year in Brooklyn, and it's what he did for his entire career at Duke. Why reinvent the wheel with DeMarcus when you can bring along a well-suited role player just as easily?

Kliq · Aug 1, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
Okay. You're right. That fictional conversation is probably exactly what happened, and it's really easy for professional basketball players to change their roles on the fly and pick up new systems that ask them to do completely different things than the system they practice 340 days a year.

Edit: Also, there are plenty of things Plumlee does better than DeMarcus Cousins. A lot of them are the things team USA needs their backup center to do. You know, like play defense. Have you ever watched Cousins do that? Because until this year, he was atrociously bad at it and this year, all that really improved was his level of effort. He's still lost against the pick and roll, lazy getting back, and puts in about half of the effort that he does on offense. Additionally, you're worried about foul trouble for team USA--a real issue in international play which allows only 5 personal fouls--and you're lobbying in favor of. . .the guy who has fouled out of more games in the last 3 years than anybody else in the NBA. His value to the Kings is as a volume scorer. Team USA needs a volume scorer like they need a hole in their head. The USA basketball program went through their brief malaise because for years they prioritized raw talent over fit. They built All-Star teams instead of teams with an actual, specific strategy in mind. In short, they gave guys like DeMarcus Cousins roster spots and assumed they'd successfully pick up the intricacies of being a role player at a very high level of play in a span of two weeks. This is who Mason Plumlee is. This is what he did last year in Brooklyn, and it's what he did for his entire career at Duke. Why reinvent the wheel with DeMarcus when you can bring along a well-suited role player just as easily?

Okay, you have convinced me. Boogie needs help on the pick and roll and maybe his skill set doesn't fit the team as much as I think it would. Maybe I'm more unhappy with the fact that Mason Plumlee is perhaps getting the nod than I am that Cousins isn't.

One thing I disagree with is that it's incredibly difficult for players to change their playing styles. Everyone on the Olympic team has to change their playing styles to some degree.

luckiestman · Aug 1, 2014

ifmanis5 said:
Blue Team vs. White Team practice on tonight 9pm on ESPN2.

Practice schedule here: http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/08/espn-follow-path-usa-basketball-mens-national-team-2014-fiba-basketball-world-cup/

Very interesting game. Like an all star game where the guys are actually trying

Blacken · Aug 1, 2014

Kirk Henderson mentioned this on Twitter talking about this game, but holy everfuckin' shit is KD tall.

He's got some KG in him. 6-foot-13 type of thing.

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

Paul George just seriously injured his leg. Really ugly injury.

soxhop411 · Aug 1, 2014

RT @WindhorstESPN: Paul George just suffered what looked like a terrible right leg injury

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 1m
George got his leg caught on the basket standard at the end of a fast break. Players really upset.

https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

Talking about canceling the rest of this game.

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

ESPN wont show it again.

CaptainLaddie · Aug 1, 2014

FUCK.

soxhop411 · Aug 1, 2014

I wonder if this could cause the NBA to pull out of the tourney

Nomar813 · Aug 1, 2014

That is fucking gruesome - Shaun Livingston level hideous. ESPN's right not to show it again.

Grin&MartyBarret · Aug 1, 2014

soxhop411 said:
I wonder if this could cause the NBA to pull out of the tourney

I think Cuban has spoken out about this before.

Regardless, I don't think George is playing for the Pacers this year. Looked as bad as the kid on Louisville in the Final Four a couple of years back.

riboflav · Aug 3, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
I think Cuban has spoken out about this before.

Regardless, I don't think George is playing for the Pacers this year. Looked as bad as the kid on Louisville in the Final Four a couple of years back.

Cuban rails against NBA and its owners for being dumb:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11301340/mark-cuban-dallas-mavericks-feels-paul-george-renews-call-separate-quadrennial-competition

Kliq · Aug 4, 2014

They cut Wall, Millsap and Beal today:http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/8/4/5969219/usa-basketball-cuts-john-wall-bradley-beal-paul-millsap

Someone make the case on why Irving should have made the team over Wall.

Kliq · Aug 4, 2014

BigSoxFan said:
Kyrie Irving is a career 38% 3pt shooter. John Wall is 31%. Wall is improving but I think Irving is a better fit on this team.

They both shot 35% from behind the line last season. And even so, they don't need more shooting, they have that in Curry, Durant, Korver, Harden, Thompson, Lillard, or whoever they end up taking. Wall brings two vital things to the table that Irving doesn't, and that is defense and passing ability. The team is currently filled with shoot-first PGs, they could have really benefited from having a guy that can dish it coming off the bench. Wall is also a much better athlete and has at least played in the playoffs before.

Blacken · Aug 5, 2014

I can see the argument for Wall, but given the depth we're talking about I ultimately think it's a coin flip between him and Irving. Irving passes fine, he just doesn't normally have anybody to pass to. And I don't think defense is going to matter all that much in this.

Kliq · Aug 5, 2014

Defense isn't going to matter? If that was the case, Mason Plumlee wouldn't be here. I find it somewhat alarming that the US roster right now has two good defenders; DeRozan and Thompson (neither are locks, although with Beal gone Thompson probably is) a big question mark (Rose) and three guys (Harden, Lillard and Irving) that are barely more effective than cardboard cut-outs of Scottie Pippen.

Kliq · Aug 7, 2014

Durant is out of the tournament:http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/08/07/kevin-durant-team-usa-basketball-oklahoma-city-thunder-fiba-world-cup/13744939/

Durant cited that he was exhausted from the NBA season and wanted to conserve his time and energy for the upcoming season. Anybody buying any reason other than that Durant wanted to keep both of his legs intact?

Also, James Harden better bring his A game, as he is going to be our de facto scorer now.

Blacken · Aug 8, 2014

Gay could actually be pretty good in international ball. He loves threes, and it's closer, and it's not like any team except for Spain is going to really slow him down if he decides to go threaten a rim.

Kliq · Aug 9, 2014

BigSoxFan said:
SoSH favorite Rudy Gay has come on to save the day in lieu of Durant's departure!

TBH, Gay isn't that bad of a choice. With George and Durant both out, the teams only real wing defender is Klay Thompson. Gay can be a strong defender and can slide over to PF in some situations.

Kliq · Aug 14, 2014

Boogie went down in practice today, took an MRI, came back negative, listed as day-to-day. Why does it feel like we are a few injuries away from Kendrick Perkins seeing significant playing time for this team?

SoxFanInCali · Aug 23, 2014

If the best team we can send contains 2 Kings players, that's probably not a good sign. And I say that as a Kings fan.

DeMarcus Cousins (Sacramento Kings)
Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors)
Anthony Davis (New Orleans Pelicans)
DeMar DeRozan (Toronto Raptors)
Andre Drummond (Detroit Pistons)
Kenneth Faried (Denver Nuggets)
Rudy Gay (Sacramento Kings)
James Harden (Houston Rockets)
Kyrie Irving (Cleveland Cavaliers)
Mason Plumlee (Brooklyn Nets)
Derrick Rose (Chicago Bulls)
Klay Thompson (Golden State Warriors)

Kliq · Aug 23, 2014

Oh, it is such a B team. Outside of Davis, Curry and Harden, would any of these guys make it if ALL the players were available? Glad DeRozan made it, they needed another quality perimeter defender.

Kliq · Aug 23, 2014

BigSoxFan said:
And not 1 but 2 energy, defense guys in Plumlee and Faried. Still, the roster is good enough to win it if they play well.

IIRC, Faried is actually a sub-par defender, but because he has the "high-energy" tag people think he is a good one.

I don't doubt we have the talent to win, the tourny might actually be more exciting this way. Hopefully we can just rain threes on everybody, and the Brow emerges as the next great American player.

SoxFanInPdx · Aug 23, 2014

Kyrie Irving over Lillard and Wall. No way.

Kliq · Aug 23, 2014

SoxFanInPdx said:
Kyrie Irving over Lillard and Wall. No way.

Irving is currently the most overrated player in the NBA (and I would have said that before LeBron came along). Kyrie and Lillard are similar players, the only major difference is that Lillard has more big game experience and has proven himself in the clutch. IMO Wall would have been better than either because he is a much better defender and distributor than either of those guys.

TBH, I'm in college, and amongst young people, Irving is probably a top 10 player in most of their opinions. The Unlce Drew skits went a long way, and he crosses over some guys and he gets on the highlights and shines in All-Star games, but as an overall player, he isn't a top 5 PG imo.

minischwab · Aug 24, 2014

Kliq said:
Irving is currently the most overrated player in the NBA (and I would have said that before LeBron came along). Kyrie and Lillard are similar players, the only major difference is that Lillard has more big game experience and has proven himself in the clutch. IMO Wall would have been better than either because he is a much better defender and distributor than either of those guys.

TBH, I'm in college, and amongst young people, Irving is probably a top 10 player in most of their opinions. The Unlce Drew skits went a long way, and he crosses over some guys and he gets on the highlights and shines in All-Star games, but as an overall player, he isn't a top 5 PG imo.

Only problem is Irving has been their best PG by FAR since this team started playing in July. Rose may have lost the starting job already, he's getting outplayed on both ends of the floor by Irving. Borrowing from Chris Sheridan, numbers include the scrimmage:

Irving: 83 minutes; 45 points, 14-for-22 shooting (3-for-4 on 3s), 19 assists, 2 turnovers.
Rose: 52 minutes; 21 points, 7-for-12 shooting (1-for-3 on 3s), 7 assists, 7 turnovers

I was at the game Friday night, Rose was limping a bit and just doesn't look like he's ready to take over yet. Irving is as quick as any guard in the league off the dribble and will blow by Rubio whenever he wants.

This team also needs to do more of what they did Friday: Play Curry and Thompson together. They just work as a duo, Curry has been terrible for this team when Thompson isn't next to him.

On another topic, taking only 1 true SF (Gay) also makes a lot sense, no team that can prevent the US from winning this tournament has a SF that will have the size to bother Harden if USA goes with 3 guards as they like to do. We won't know anything until the semifinals, when they probably play Lithuania. But this team looks stronger than I thought they would when Durant pulled out.

Kliq · Aug 30, 2014

Finland seems undersized and overmatched, but I don't love the start from Team USA offensivly, a lot of selfish drives to the rim, which isn't really how you win in International play.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Sep 3, 2014

ifmanis5 said:
Davis is so damn good.

Nice article on Anthony Davis here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2184178-anthony-davis-is-the-new-leader-team-usa-needs

I've only watched part of the NZ game, but I wonder how Coach K can continue to use his beloved pressure defense when, for example, Harden plays like this: https://vine.co/v/OBHezeZFUTE

(Sorry, not sure how to embed a Vine video).

Kliq · Sep 3, 2014

Faried should just go play in Europe and cash in over there. Nobody so far has had the athleticism to even THINK about competing with him.

The Other World Cup, FIBA Hoops Edition

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