The Ray Rice Debacle

[Strike4]

There's an excellent opportunity for a courageous and enterprising employee of the NFL who is in a position to know to answer the questions about what Goodell and other NFL officials saw when they handed down the initial suspension.  This employee will be fired, but the public and media backlash will probably lead to no legal action (confidentiality agreements etc.), and another company will hire the person right away.

 

[DegenerateSoxFan]

I'd bet that the potential economic consequences of reporting a DV incident are a huge factor in the number of unreported cases. Is it worth it to have your husband arrested if it means he loses his job? The answer to that in many cases has be no.

 

[AimingForYoko]

I'd bet that the potential economic consequences of reporting a DV incident are a huge factor in the number of unreported cases. Is it worth it to have your husband arrested if it means he loses his job? The answer to that in many cases has be no.

It's not just economic consequences. Would you really want the person hurting you around with even more free time and a chip on their shoulder?

 

[dylanmarsh]

We learned a valuable lesson today.  If you are going to hit a lady you best kill her.  The Ravens hate having things half done.

 

 

[mauf]

There's an excellent opportunity for a courageous and enterprising employee of the NFL who is in a position to know to answer the questions about what Goodell and other NFL officials saw when they handed down the initial suspension.  This employee will be fired, but the public and media backlash will probably lead to no legal action (confidentiality agreements etc.), and another company will hire the person right away.

The bolded part is where your analysis breaks down. Whistleblowers' future employment prospects are poor. That's true for at least two reasons: (1) most people who blow the whistle, including those who perform a great public service by doing so, are motivated by considerations that are petty or otherwise not admirable (there are interesting studies on this which I'm too lazy to Google at the moment); and (2) every employer needs employees to keep secrets, and there is a natural tendency to question a whistleblower's trustworthiness in this regard, no matter how noble the initial act of whistleblowing may have been.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
As a Pats' fan I've hated him from almost the get-go and we all know why. But, I have no idea how he's perceived by other fan bases.

 
AS a non-Pats fan, I've hated him about the same as Bud since he got the job.

 

[H78]

This is such a joke.
 
Both the Ravens and Goodell knew what happened in that elevator and did nothing of real significance until the public finally saw the video as well.
 
I know a lot of people have said it, but Goodell should be humiliated and 100% removed from his position. Josh Gordon is sent selling cars because he loves to smoke weed, meanwhile Goodell views that tape and drops a 2-game suspension on Rice? UN. REAL. This is incomprehensibly embarrassing for the league, its teams, its players, and its fans.
 
#FireGoodell

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Good thing the new NFL domestic violence rule was just implemented to justify Rice's 2nd 1st offense. As an above poster stated, what an absolute joke.
 
Goodell is ahead, by leaps and bounds, as the current grand wizard douchenozzle of sports commissioners. Was Selig ever this hated? Bettman definitely is/was, but fewer people noticed.

 
How the hell does he suspend him indefinitely after he just created a policy, on his own, that says first offense is 6 games? What is wrong with him? He can't even follow the rule she created 8 days ago?

 

[Stitch01]

Im guessing the suspension wont be for domestic violence but for not being truthful in a league investigation or some other bullshit

 

[Gambler7]

The NFL and the Ravens are unbelievably naive to think this video would never see the light of day in this day and age. I also think they are extremely naive if they think additional proof that they did see the video before the suspension will not come out. If, or when, it does, then Goodell would need to go. 

 

[mauf]

 
How the hell does he suspend him indefinitely after he just created a policy, on his own, that says first offense is 6 games? What is wrong with him? He can't even follow the rule she created 8 days ago?

He already punished Rice for the incident. I assume his justification for the indefinite suspension will be that Rice lied to him about what happened. (Edit: Beaten to it.)

Also, I suspect the indefinite suspension eased whatever cap pain the Ravens might have suffered by cutting Rice.

 

[Ed Hillel]

He already punished Rice for the incident. I assume his justification for the indefinite suspension will be that Rice lied to him about what happened. (Edit: Beaten to it.)

Also, I suspect the indefinite suspension eased whatever cap pain the Ravens might have suffered by cutting Rice.

 
Assuming they saw the video, or knew what was on it, they would have had just cause to suspend him indefinitely for lying then.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Fox & Friends provides some classy, in-depth analysis:
 

The entire interaction between Kilmeade and co-host Steve Doocey -- captured by SportsGrid -- is so embarrassing, short-sighted and inexplicable it feels like an SNL skit. It's sadly real.

Doocey: "We should also point out after that video, she still married him. They're currently married."
Kilmeade: "Rhianna went back to ... yeah, Chris Brown, right after. I thought that was a terrible message."
Doocey: "Then there was Jay-Z and Beyonce and Solange. That was also in an elevator."
Kilmeade: "But you notice Jay-Z didn't hit back. I think the message is take the stairs."
Doocey: "The message is when you're in an elevator, there's a camera on. And there's a camera right now on Heather Nauert, who's got headlines."

 


 

 

[Harry Hooper]

The NFL and the Ravens are unbelievably naive to think this video would never see the light of day in this day and age. I also think they are extremely naive if they think additional proof that they did see the video before the suspension will not come out. If, or when, it does, then Goodell would need to go. 

 
As discussed in the other thread, accepting the "We didn't see it!" claim as true leads right to the NFL blaming Mrs. Rice for not being totally forthcoming. It's a massive foul-up whichever way it goes.

 

[The Social Chair]

 
As discussed in the other thread, accepting the "We didn't see it!" claim as true leads right to the NFL blaming Mrs. Rice for not being totally forthcoming. It's a massive foul-up whichever way it goes.

 
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the idiots from the NFL conduct their interview with her while Ray was in the room? Somebody needs to lose their job here. 

 

[FL4WL3SS]

My question to everyone that thought Goodell should have punished Rice longer initially.
 
What was the Sheriff to do if the only footage he saw was that of Ray pulling his fiance out of the elevator and then both Ray and his fiancee corroborated to him that she attacked him in the elevator and slipped and hit her head knocking herself out and that Ray had nothing to do with it?
 
I'm assuming that since she married him, she's also sticking by his side during the NFL's investigation. He can't just make assumptions based on the first video that came out and if both Ray and his fiancee were uncooperative, what was he supposed to do? Given the new evidence, I think he worked quickly to rectify the situation and I believe the Ravens did too.
 
I can blame a lot of things on Sheriff Roger, but without knowing the facts of the investigation, I have a hard time placing any blame here. Especially given the nature of the uncooperative individuals in the case.

 

[Stitch01]

My question to everyone that thought Goodell should have punished Rice longer initially.
 
What was the Sheriff to do if the only footage he saw was that of Ray pulling his fiance out of the elevator and then both Ray and his fiancee corroborated to him that she attacked him in the elevator and slipped and hit her head knocking herself out and that Ray had nothing to do with it?
 
I'm assuming that since she married him, she's also sticking by his side during the NFL's investigation. He can't just make assumptions based on the first video that came out and if both Ray and his fiancee were uncooperative, what was he supposed to do? Given the new evidence, I think he worked quickly to rectify the situation and I believe the Ravens did too.
 
I can blame a lot of things on Sheriff Roger, but without knowing the facts of the investigation, I have a hard time placing any blame here. Especially given the nature of the uncooperative individuals in the case.

I dont think the bolded ever happened.

 

[PBDWake]

My question to everyone that thought Goodell should have punished Rice longer initially.
 
What was the Sheriff to do if the only footage he saw was that of Ray pulling his fiance out of the elevator and then both Ray and his fiancee corroborated to him that she attacked him in the elevator and slipped and hit her head knocking herself out and that Ray had nothing to do with it?
 
I'm assuming that since she married him, she's also sticking by his side during the NFL's investigation. He can't just make assumptions based on the first video that came out and if both Ray and his fiancee were uncooperative, what was he supposed to do? Given the new evidence, I think he worked quickly to rectify the situation and I believe the Ravens did too.
 
I can blame a lot of things on Sheriff Roger, but without knowing the facts of the investigation, I have a hard time placing any blame here. Especially given the nature of the uncooperative individuals in the case.

 
The biggest problem for the NFL and the Ravens is Chris Mortenson. His tweet shortly after the story broke involved a detailed description of exactly what went on in the video. It's really hard to deny you've seen it when a reporter says he has an NFL source that told him you watched the video, then accurately explains it.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I dont think the bolded ever happened.

How do you know? The answer that I'm getting at is, we don't.
 

 
The biggest problem for the NFL and the Ravens is Chris Mortenson. His tweet shortly after the story broke involved a detailed description of exactly what went on in the video. It's really hard to deny you've seen it when a reporter says he has an NFL source that told him you watched the video, then accurately explains it.

I did not know that. Kind of changes the narrative a little, doesn't it?

 

[Harry Hooper]

I dont think the bolded ever happened.

 
 
Plus, before switching gears this afternoon the Ravens said Ray had accurately described what transpired in the elevator video, i.e. this video was nothing new.

 

[Gdiguy]

 
As discussed in the other thread, accepting the "We didn't see it!" claim as true leads right to the NFL blaming Mrs. Rice for not being totally forthcoming. It's a massive foul-up whichever way it goes.

 
I think you guys aren't being cynical enough.
 
This is Goodell's way of using the crisis to try to deflect some of the blame to the player's association. By going over the top, either the union has to accept that going forward the NFL can get a do-over on punishments if it turns out they screwed up, or the story then becomes "Players association sues NFL to get wife-beater Ray Rice re-instated and paid". It's a perfect deflection!

 

[Tim Naehrings Girl]

The Ravens did the right thing for once.

 
The right thing would have been to release him five months ago.

 

[Average Reds]

My question to everyone that thought Goodell should have punished Rice longer initially.
 
What was the Sheriff to do if the only footage he saw was that of Ray pulling his fiance out of the elevator and then both Ray and his fiancee corroborated to him that she attacked him in the elevator and slipped and hit her head knocking herself out and that Ray had nothing to do with it?
 
I'm assuming that since she married him, she's also sticking by his side during the NFL's investigation. He can't just make assumptions based on the first video that came out and if both Ray and his fiancee were uncooperative, what was he supposed to do? Given the new evidence, I think he worked quickly to rectify the situation and I believe the Ravens did too.
 
I can blame a lot of things on Sheriff Roger, but without knowing the facts of the investigation, I have a hard time placing any blame here. Especially given the nature of the uncooperative individuals in the case.

 
On the off-chance that you are serious ...
 
Let's accept at face value the almost unbelievable claim that Roger Goodell did not see the video from within the elevator before he handed down the initial suspension.  You ask "what was the Sherrif to do?"
 
How about make sure he knew the facts before handing down the suspension?  I mean, he knew that video existed.  Hell, his mouthpieces were reporting that he had seen the video and were using it as a centerpiece of the whisper campaign to imply that Janay Palmer had it coming.  So it's not unreasonable to think that he could have actually corroborated the story he received from Ray Rice and his fiancee before handing down the actual suspension.  
 
But forget about that and let's look at your claim that he couldn't have made an assumption based on the first video. I'd like to know why not?  We're not in court and the presumption of innocence doesn't apply.  Goodell was free to draw whatever conclusion he wanted and as we now know, the only reasonable conclusion to be drawn from that video - that Rice was an abusive asshole - was correct.
 
Again, this assumes that the NFL is telling the truth, which I do not believe for a second based on the leaked smear campaign back in July.  But even if they were telling the truth, it does not come close to letting them of the hook.

 

[NDame616]

If BB signed Incognito right now, no one would be the wiser....
 
Just sayin'.....

 

[8slim]

Herm Edwards and Ron Jaworski were on air making sure everyone didn't forget that Ray Rice is a young guy who has to live his life still.  So please have some compassion.
 
Yes, that was the gist of it.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Bashing in Goodell & NFL in the only way that Mad Dog could:
 
https://soundcloud.com/maddogsportsradio/mad-dog-bashes-roger-goodell-over-ray-rice-situation

 

[steveluck7]

Herm Edwards and Ron Jaworski were on air making sure everyone didn't forget that Ray Rice is a young guy who has to live his life still.  So please have some compassion.
 
Yes, that was the gist of it.

I'm sure he'll enroll in the Tony Dungy School for Wayward Boys...

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Herm Edwards and Ron Jaworski were on air making sure everyone didn't forget that Ray Rice is a young guy who has to live his life still.  So please have some compassion.
 
Yes, that was the gist of it.

 
Career earnings: 24.2M salary + 1.6M in endorsements according to Forbes.
 
Sure he's got the rest of his life to live. But I'm sure over 25M would help. 

 

[uncannymanny]

It won't happen, but I'd love to see her skate with half of what's left.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

It won't happen, but I'd love to see her skate with half of what's left.

 
I wouldn't be surprised if that IS exactly what happens. Only because I'm thinking the violent behavior will return at some point in the future.

 

[JimBoSox9]

To celebrate the roster move, the Ravens have deleted their infamous "Janay Rice regrets...." tweet, probably because they were tired of having it quoted back at them.

 

[glennhoffmania]

It won't happen, but I'd love to see her skate with half of what's left.

 
We were just discussing this in the office.  First we were trying to figure out why she'd still marry him.  Answer- to secure at least half of his cash.  Then, why would he marry her- one guess was it was part of a deal to get her to not testify against him.  The tension in that household right now must be pretty high.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

X-posting from P&G cause it needs more love eyeballs (originally posted by Curll):
 

 

[redsahx]

 

Career earnings: 24.2M salary + 1.6M in endorsements according to Forbes.
 
Sure he's got the rest of his life to live. But I'm sure over 25M would help.

 
Yeah I would worry more about Ray McDonalds future child missing out on some of his dad's future earnings. Would these guys express the same sympathy towards a lesser known, much less wealthy player who could eventually fall under the hammer of the lifetime ban proposed by Goodell as a means of deflecting the criticism towards the initial Rice ruling?

 

[singaporesoxfan]

 
We were just discussing this in the office.  First we were trying to figure out why she'd still marry him.  Answer- to secure at least half of his cash.  Then, why would he marry her- one guess was it was part of a deal to get her to not testify against him.  The tension in that household right now must be pretty high.

 
Answering the question "Why does a domestic abuse victim still marry / stay married to / stay with her abuser?" with "to get access to his earnings" does not speak well to your office's experience or understanding of domestic abuse.

 

[moondog80]

Herm Edwards and Ron Jaworski were on air making sure everyone didn't forget that Ray Rice is a young guy who has to live his life still.  So please have some compassion.
 
Yes, that was the gist of it.

 
 
Well...they're not wrong.  His wife has to live with him, too (until/unless she decides otherwise).  He's effectively done with the NFL and that's fine, but don't we all hope he can find a way to contribute to society from here on out?  

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Answering the question "Why does a domestic abuse victim still marry / stay married to / stay with her abuser?" with "to get access to his earnings" does not speak well to your office's experience or understanding of domestic abuse.

 
Agreed.  It was from the same guy who was telling me how classy Baltimore is as an organization for cutting Rice today.

 

[mauf]

 
 
Yeah I would worry more about Ray McDonalds future child missing out on some of his dad's future earnings. Would these guys express the same sympathy towards a lesser known, much less wealthy player who could eventually fall under the hammer of the lifetime ban proposed by Goodell as a means of deflecting the criticism towards the initial Rice ruling?

How often does an incident of domestic violence get caught on tape in this manner? I don't expect a parade of similar cases involving lesser players.

I do expect a lot of wives and girlfriends in more typical cases to think twice about calling the cops and/or pressing charges, due to the incentives created by this high-profile case and the league's new DV rules. What's unknown (and unknowable) is whether the negative effect of that incentive will be outweighed by the positive incentive on player behavior (i.e., whether some players will stop hitting women out of concern for their careers). I tend to think the bad incentive will outweigh the good, but I'm a cynic when it comes to human nature.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

 
As a Pats' fan I've hated him from almost the get-go and we all know why. But, I have no idea how he's perceived by other fan bases.

I think the Steelers' fan base may be at the head of the line at the release of this news.

 

[mauf]

I think the Steelers' fan base may be at the head of the line at the release of this news.

Can you make your point more clearly? I don't know if you're suggesting Steelers fans will be happy or sad about this.

(Fwiw, I'm a Steelers fan and don't think I processed it differently than anyone else. Now that I think about it, maybe I should be mad that Goodell appears to have relieved the Ravens of an onerous contract -- his cap number for 2015 was $7.75mm, and they would've had to eat $6mm in dead money to cut him after this season.)

 

[Stitch01]

I don't think he saved them cap space, his salaries weren't guaranteed and he they have to amortize the signing bonus.

 

[uncannymanny]

 
We were just discussing this in the office.  First we were trying to figure out why she'd still marry him.  Answer- to secure at least half of his cash.  Then, why would he marry her- one guess was it was part of a deal to get her to not testify against him.  The tension in that household right now must be pretty high.

 
Yeah, that's not the reason she married him, but if he doesn't have a prenup he probably shouldn't make any major purchases for a while.
 
Also, your office is full of completely insane people.

 

[ifmanis5]

I was laughing when Chris Berman as 'The Swa' picked the Ravens to go to the Super Bowl on Friday. Laughing even harder now.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
 
 
Also, your office is full of completely insane people.

 
Yeah it's awesome.  I wake up every day feeling so thankful that I get to come here and deal with totally sane, reasonable and intelligent people.

 

[pappymojo]

Im guessing the suspension wont be for domestic violence but for not being truthful in a league investigation or some other bullshit

 
This.  It's not about what Rice did to the woman, but it's about what Rice did to Roger - lied to him.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

Can you make your point more clearly? I don't know if you're suggesting Steelers fans will be happy or sad about this.

(Fwiw, I'm a Steelers fan and don't think I processed it differently than anyone else. Now that I think about it, maybe I should be mad that Goodell appears to have relieved the Ravens of an onerous contract -- his cap number for 2015 was $7.75mm, and they would've had to eat $6mm in dead money to cut him after this season.)

Come on, now. If you are what you claim you at least have a feeling for how this will play, on average, in Pittsburgh.

 

[mauf]

I don't think he saved them cap space, his salaries weren't guaranteed and he they have to amortize the signing bonus.

I think it depends whether the suspension allows them to recoup a portion of the signing bonus. (The Pats decided to forgo any possibility of this in the AH case when they cut him immediately, rather than formally waiting for him to fail to report to camp.)

 

[redsahx]

 

How often does an incident of domestic violence get caught on tape in this manner? I don't expect a parade of similar cases involving lesser players.

I do expect a lot of wives and girlfriends in more typical cases to think twice about calling the cops and/or pressing charges, due to the incentives created by this high-profile case and the league's new DV rules. What's unknown (and unknowable) is whether the negative effect of that incentive will be outweighed by the positive incentive on player behavior (i.e., whether some players will stop hitting women out of concern for their careers). I tend to think the bad incentive will outweigh the good, but I'm a cynic when it comes to human nature.

 
Yeah to clarify, I was referring to the possibility of players getting hit by the lifetime ban proposed in Goodell's domestic abuse policy (Not about guys getting basically blacklisted by video evidence), and was thinking along the lines of your second paragraph. Rice at least made quite a haul already in his career. Now picture a women with two kids with a player who hasn't yet accumulated much wealth, and who already has a mark against him. Would she try and cover up an incident for the sake of her kids, knowing that even reporting something minor could get her husband or boyfriend banned for life, and potentially cost her kids access to a better lifestyle?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Have charges been filed by the police against Rice?  That's the only thing that leads me to believe that maybe Goodell and others didn't see this tape.  Because if they saw it, presumably the authorities would have as well, and charges would have been brought, regardless of what story Janay and Ray told the police.  If charges haven't been brought, I can't imagine they won't be now.  Don't need a corroborating witness to corroborate that video.

 

[Nite Vizhun UV]

How often does an incident of domestic violence get caught on tape in this manner? I don't expect a parade of similar cases involving lesser players.

I do expect a lot of wives and girlfriends in more typical cases to think twice about calling the cops and/or pressing charges, due to the incentives created by this high-profile case and the league's new DV rules. What's unknown (and unknowable) is whether the negative effect of that incentive will be outweighed by the positive incentive on player behavior (i.e., whether some players will stop hitting women out of concern for their careers). I tend to think the bad incentive will outweigh the good, but I'm a cynic when it comes to human nature.

 
A new article on USA today discusses this:
 

Ray Rice is gone from the Baltimore Ravens and suspended indefinitely by the NFL. That's a very good ending to an absolutely horrible situation.
 
But what of Ray McDonald, the San Francisco 49ers defensive lineman who is facing a felony domestic violence charge, yet still playing?
 
Or Greg Hardy, the Carolina Panthers defensive end who was found guilty of assaulting his former girlfriend and threatening to kill her, who also is still playing?
 

Why haven't the 49ers released McDonald, or even suspended him? Why haven't the Panthers done the same with Hardy? Where's the NFL on these two?
 
Apparently, these men are lucky domestic abusers (or an alleged domestic abuser, in McDonald's case). They were very fortunate that they threw their punches, alleged or for real, far from the view of a video camera.
 
Now that the Ravens and the NFL have finally come to the right decision on Rice, can Hardy and McDonald be far behind?
 
And if not, why not? Is it because we can't see it? That must be it, because if you read about what they did or allegedly did, it certainly sounds just as bad as what Rice did to his then-fiance Janay Palmer in that Atlantic City elevator.
 
So, as positive as the Rice banishment is, it begs a very big question: What did everyone think domestic violence looked like?
 
And, now that we know, how can anyone who is cheering the Rice news today, including all kinds of NFL players on social media, also not demand that McDonald and Hardy go too?
 
Or what about Rice's Baltimore teammate, Pro Bowl linebacker Terrell Suggs? Suggs' longtime girlfriend, Candace Williams, claimed in a protective order filed in 2012, obtained by the Baltimore Sun, that Suggs punched her in the neck and drove a car containing their two children at a "high rate of speed" while she was being dragged alongside.
 
Let's imagine that video for a moment.

 

 

 
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/ravens/2014/09/08/ray-rice-baltimore-ravens-suspended-indefinitely/15296077/