In retrospect, not trading James Paxton may have sealed his fate. It's one thing to not compete for the playoffs, but quite another to lose a potentially valuable chit for nothing due to inaction.
The Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom
- Thread starter Smiling Joe Hesketh
- Start date
- Status
Schreiber, Bernardino, Pivetta, Whitlock and Winckowski were all scrap heap acquisitions or 35 FV/#30-50 ranked prospects.
I could have told him that that was not going to happen. That's ridiculous.
The idea that Bloom ever had a full payroll to work with is a bit disingenuous. He had to get out underneath DD's deficit, and then stay under the luxury cap. I don't really buy the idea that JH gave him carte blanche to rebuild.
Yup. SoSH group think was way off on this one. I’m only moderately surprised, certainly not stunned. End of the day, MLB results matter and his record was quite poor in that regard.
There may be no one I'd want them to hire less than Brian Sabean. Go look at the horrific teams he put together at the end of his run with the Giants.
OK, let's run through this
- Devers
- Great player...extended under the Bloom FO
- Betts
- Great player...who ownership mandated a trade for and while the return wasn't ideal, two of the better 2023 Red Sox were in that trade
- Bogaerts
- Great player...who got an obscene contract from SD no sane team matches
- Sale
- An absolute albatross of a contract who constricted the team for the entirety of the Bloom FO
- Eovaldi
- A great Dombrowski trade and someone who provide real value for Boston and left in FA...because he assumed he'd get paid better than Boston offered and didn't.
- Eduardo Rodriguez
- A very effective player who left in FA for a deal he absolutely didn't earn on in 2022 and has been better in 2023. I don't think any Sox fan wanted to give him what the Tigers did
- Benintendi
- A good player who has lost any semblance of power hitting he had who signed a deal no Red Sox fan would want him to sign
- Vazquez
- A good player who is a replacement level guy since he left who the Sox got a couple good prospects for (earning 10M in Minnesota)
It was an 84 win team with horrendous contracts, no farm to back it up, and an ownership mandate to cut costs. He's leaving it an 84 win team with far fewer terrible contracts (the one he was stuck with and arguably Story), a much better farm system, in a position to acquire and compete.
And he was here for three season and a COVID trunacted fourth year, pipelines don't often deliver til later than that and the pipeline looks good now.
I suspect it was signing Kluber. Or failing to develop ML pitching in a way that wins games.
This is exactly where I am. What credible front office type, whether an up and comer or someone with a track record, would want to come in here, big payroll or no? Ownership set the direction and I felt like Bloom was just executing what they wanted.
With a tenure that included two seasons of playing during a pandemic, one year without any minor league games, one offseason of a lockout and one full season of frozen transactions (summer 2020, winter 2021-22).
You beat me to it bosockboy, I was just going to say that maybe Henry likes Cora better.
I’m also in the surprised but not shocked camp. While they at least stayed in the wild card conversation until after Labor Day, this year’s edition of the Boston Red Sox leaves lots to be desired. At the trade deadline it appears Bloom was counting on the return of the injured guys to greatly improve the team, and when that didn’t pan out it probably sealed his fate.
Not recent, but Dallas Green, Whitey Herzog and Jack McKeon come to mind (with varying degrees of success).
Right. And this year they are like 13th...just about league average. I dont think any GM would've flourished at the big league level the last few years in Boston...thats not to say others wouldn't have done better than Bloom, but I cant see a world where this sox team was posting multiple 90+ win seasons in a row...and rebuilding the organizational structure.
...is that the COVID season you're underlining? The one where he inherited Dave Dombrowski's team, was forced to trade its best player, cut payroll and the world was upside down? It's shocking they were bad. Then they made the ALCS.
He has a mid-tier level payroll right now and the team is performing at a mid-tier level. John Henry's wallet being closed and the absolute non contribution of the farm system for three years is not his fault.
It was pretty obvious for like 3 years '24 was going to be the year.
This seems like mostly a PR thing. Hoping they bring in someone new with a similar philosophy from a successful, well-run org, & they continue on with the plan. They have about $80m to spend this off season, & they should playoff next year.
Doing it without the guy who they made the face of the Mookie Betts trade makes sense from a PR perspective, & they really need to clean house on the coaching staff, so bringing in a whole new regime of everything at once who will do smart things up & down the organization & allow them to stay competitive for years to come, which is their current trajectory, would be fine.
If they totally change course & bring in the next Dombrowski, though, I will be a sad panda.
This seems like mostly a PR thing. Hoping they bring in someone new with a similar philosophy from a successful, well-run org, & they continue on with the plan. They have about $80m to spend this off season, & they should playoff next year.
Doing it without the guy who they made the face of the Mookie Betts trade makes sense from a PR perspective, & they really need to clean house on the coaching staff, so bringing in a whole new regime of everything at once who will do smart things up & down the organization & allow them to stay competitive for years to come, which is their current trajectory, would be fine.
If they totally change course & bring in the next Dombrowski, though, I will be a sad panda.
Count me among those who thought he had one more year. As to whether this was (a) a lack of faith in Bloom's ability to do anything beyond building a farm system or (b) a lack of clarity on what kind of franchise to run, I'm going to assume the answer is (c) both of the above.
I do think there's one other possible factor, though I suppose it's really just a component of (b) ... It would not surprise me if Sox ownership thought they had more credibility/slack with the fan base. And while I don't think they worry about talk radio or columnists -- or smart posters on SOSH, for that matter -- I think they care about product reputation and visibility.
All the signs that the Sox were slipping in local affection, relative to the other Boston franchises, and the now-not-so-unfamiliar sight of empty seats at Fenway, may have rattled them. That's a serious, long-term threat to revenue -- not enough to make the Sox a money loser, of course, but enough to make the team less of a money-maker.
Presumably their confidence of loyalty/enthusiasm made them more willing to focus on payroll containment, even at the risk of losing beloved players. The team on the field now is the consequence of that approach, as are all those empty seats in the stadium.
I do think there's one other possible factor, though I suppose it's really just a component of (b) ... It would not surprise me if Sox ownership thought they had more credibility/slack with the fan base. And while I don't think they worry about talk radio or columnists -- or smart posters on SOSH, for that matter -- I think they care about product reputation and visibility.
All the signs that the Sox were slipping in local affection, relative to the other Boston franchises, and the now-not-so-unfamiliar sight of empty seats at Fenway, may have rattled them. That's a serious, long-term threat to revenue -- not enough to make the Sox a money loser, of course, but enough to make the team less of a money-maker.
Presumably their confidence of loyalty/enthusiasm made them more willing to focus on payroll containment, even at the risk of losing beloved players. The team on the field now is the consequence of that approach, as are all those empty seats in the stadium.
Maybe, but I bet most October-bound FOs expected that Paxton might have fatigue issues.
He probably sealed his fate by not dumping Paxton and Duvall money and then going 18-22 since the deadline
Really? You’d be bummed if we hired someone who won us a World Series by building the best and most exciting team of my lifetime? I can’t be the only one sick of losing, can I? It would be awesome to watch a winning team.
I'm.....stunned. He was doing the rebuild under the financial constraints that they had wanted him to do. Nothing like getting fired for doing what your bosses want you to do. Holy smokes.
Well.....I fully expect the 2024 team to be MUCH better, because this almost certainly signals a move towards unloading prospects to get much better MLB talent.
This kind of encapsulates my first reaction - regardless of my opinion of Bloom (for the record: mixed, leaning positive), I mostly thought they should pick a lane and stick with it. The jumping around from Cherington to Dave D. to Bloom to whomever raises some questions to me about how Henry is running things. Which is a weird thing to say about him!
It’s been mentioned he hadn’t been extended. It was probably a decision on extending or letting him go and the latter won out.
I guess the bottom line is with 6 playoff spots, 2 years in a row not even sniffing one was just too much to overcome.
I guess the bottom line is with 6 playoff spots, 2 years in a row not even sniffing one was just too much to overcome.
The next GM is coming into a very, very sweet spot. Good MLB talent on board. Tons of prospects to elevate or trade. Good financial flexibility. They should be able to turn this team into a contender very quickly, but doing so will, of course, come at a cost - the weakening of the farm system that Bloom has worked to build up. But the next GM will also have some breathing space to implement a plan.
This is also the second time in a calendar year that disgruntled fan and media rancor picked up to coincide with a bad looking event (Xander leaving, falling out of the race with a doubleheader loss to the Yankees where you could get ticket for cheap on resale) where the Sox made a sudden and impactful move (Devers extension, firing Bloom). Feels extremely reactionary.
I think this is a veru good summary.
We can add signing Kluber and Story (yet to know the final grade for that one). But also Yoshida as a positive one.
I'm sure the decision of whether to punt or not is not made by Bloom alone.
The team didn't punt - ergo they thought they could compete.
They didn't trade up at the deadline because they thought the returning players would be enough.
So (absent any shenanigans we don't know about) it's pretty easy to see who the fall guy is, and why. Bloom told management they could compete, then they didn't.
What GM in their right mind wants to come in and work for this ownership group at this point? This is an honest question.
Who are the pending free agents we could overpay to be terrible fits (or terribly unfit)?
The case for firing Bloom - to be clear I have always been Bloom agnostic.
1. The state of the starting rotation. He let Wacha and Eovaldi walk, signed Kluber and missed on Efflin. Each decision is defensible - but in the end they left a rotation that did not pitch well and left the bullpen exposed.
2. The failure to fill the holes at short and second. The Mondesi signing made little sense, and playing Kike there was a disaster.
My cynical reason - With Betts about to win a second MVP award Henry wants cover. He also wants some press as the team was essentially off the radar for Boston sports fans. I actually do not think this is true - but it will be cannon fodder for talk radio.
1. The state of the starting rotation. He let Wacha and Eovaldi walk, signed Kluber and missed on Efflin. Each decision is defensible - but in the end they left a rotation that did not pitch well and left the bullpen exposed.
2. The failure to fill the holes at short and second. The Mondesi signing made little sense, and playing Kike there was a disaster.
My cynical reason - With Betts about to win a second MVP award Henry wants cover. He also wants some press as the team was essentially off the radar for Boston sports fans. I actually do not think this is true - but it will be cannon fodder for talk radio.
I'm surprised it happened this year but not disappointed. The pitching and defense this year was an embarrassment. Bloom didn't show himself capable of putting a competitive team on the field although he did have some success in rebuilding the farm system. I agree it's time for somebody else.
And I expect Cora's job depends on whoever takes Bloom's place and whether he wants his own guy managing.
And I expect Cora's job depends on whoever takes Bloom's place and whether he wants his own guy managing.
The team in 2023 is not terrible. It's MLB average (technically a game above average). Which is terrible to us, but it's not terrible, objectively speaking.
I would not like to see the Sox gut the farm, win in 2024 or 25 (or almost win) and then go back to rebuild in 2026.
Would also add, it is very harsh to do this on the day before Rosh Hashanna to an observant Jew.
Any of them?
There are only 30 GM jobs. This one is an a hot market that was 6th in payroll last year, then dropped a bit this year to reset the tax. This is a plum of a job.
Bloom is a smart guy who is part of a machine. Eddie Romero heads most of the international stuff. Devin Pearson is now in charge of the draft stuff. They both seem quite good at what they do, so keeping those systems in place, & bringing in a new, smart guy with similar but slightly different perspectives & without the current stigma, could be freeing.
So I'm ok with it - with the caveat of replacing him with someone who is prepared to continue to do smart things as they expand the budget. Bloom has done great things with the farm system during his time, but he's not uniquely qualified to do those things.
Seeing the whole system fall into disrepair again would be a travesty in this age of baseball where good players don't often become free agents, & if they do, the prices are going to be problematic.
So I'm ok with it - with the caveat of replacing him with someone who is prepared to continue to do smart things as they expand the budget. Bloom has done great things with the farm system during his time, but he's not uniquely qualified to do those things.
Seeing the whole system fall into disrepair again would be a travesty in this age of baseball where good players don't often become free agents, & if they do, the prices are going to be problematic.
If Bloom was going to be fired, this is a good time. They can bring in a new GM in time for the FA push.
(That said, it does have the feel of the tail wagging the dog.)
I wonder if that's why they did it today rather than as a Friday news dump. I'll give them a small bit of credit if that's the case.
Plenty. They are obviously motivated, under the luxury tax, and have a top 5 farm system.
YES!!!!! Outstanding news!
I do wish him the very best in his future endeavors and thank him for the try.
I do wish him the very best in his future endeavors and thank him for the try.
They'll fill the spot. By the same token, however, the GM you want probably does have choices.
To add on, Refsnyder was a scrapheap signing, the two Houston prospects for Vazquez weren't top guys, etc. Like, doubt Bloom on getting those 3+ WAR type guys in but he was elite at scrapheap to value conversions.
Ohtani, Yamamoto.
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-2024-free-agents/
Josh Bell
Tim Anderson
Matt Chapman
Cody Bellinger
Aaron Nola
Blake Snell
Josh Hader
I’d be willing to bet most top candidates will interview if asked—Bloom had four years and signs are mixed. Budget is high, ownerships track record is either best in MLB or perhaps second to Braves, farm is strong, some real mlb talent.
If you aren’t interviewing for this job then what is the better MLB situation you’re waiting for?
Stearnes, highly regarded guy, just signed up for meddling impatient Steve Cohen!
Question: at end of day, is Bloom just a less extreme version of the Sam Hinkie model? You gotta win at top level…he just hasn’t done well with mlb roster. But a lot of good moves beneath that
Last edited:
- Status