The Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom

[cornwalls@6]

Cora won a title, with a historically overachieving team
Bloom hasn’t and has had underachieving teams

The 2018 team was loaded. That was decidedly not Cora squeezing everything out of a bunch gritty Jags.

 

[Ale Xander]

The 2018 team was loaded. That was decidedly not Cora squeezing everything out of a bunch gritty Jags.

1) Tell me one person who thought they would win 108?
2) Dombrowski did his job

 

[Quatchie]

This is a great day for the Boston Red Sox who have completely lost their identity in recent years. Not all of that was Chaim's fault but he did little to help.

Gotta wonder if the Theo thing could happen. i was told back in the early summer there were some talks.

 

[cornwalls@6]

1) Tell me one person who thought they would win 108?
2) Dombrowski did his job

They had won the AL east the previous 2 seasons, and were a strong favorite to repeat and make a deep playoff run. What are you talking about?

 

[Ale Xander]

They had won the AL east the previous 2 seasons, and were a strong favorite to repeat and make a deep playoff run. What are you talking about?

Tell me one person who thought they would win 108 games?
93 and 108 are two entirely different things

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Tell me one person who thought they would win 108 games?

Exactly? Come on. But they were predicted to be very good.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Tell me one person who thought they would win 108 games?

My man, you’re really pinning your premise on the exact win total?

edit: beaten to it by Lose.

 

[Ale Xander]

Exactly? Come on. But they were predicted to be very good.

Don’t be obtuse
They weren’t expected to be 108 wins good

 

[Ale Xander]

My man, you’re really pinning your premise on the exact win total?

Do you think 93 is the same as 108 or anywhere close?

 

[GPO Man]

Not shocked by the move, but shocked at the timing. My guess is they go after an experienced GM who has had success. Seems to be the pattern. 23-24 free agency is going to be crucial for the Sox.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Don’t be obtuse
They weren’t expected to be 108 wins good

Me?

dude.

108 was a surprise. First place and a really good team was not.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Do you think 93 is the same as 108 or anywhere close?

They were not, by any measure, a significantly overachieving team. They were a strong pre-season favorite. This is a very weird hill to die on.

 

[Ale Xander]

Me?

dude.

108 was a surprise. First place and a really good team was not.

I can’t believe that you people are fighting with me over if the 2018 Red Sox, a team that won more games than any in team history and capped off with a WS, overachieved.

If you’re just going to disagree with me if I say the sky is blue, you should probably stop replying to my posts.

You know who you are

 

[Ale Xander]

They were not, by any measure, a significantly overachieving team. They were a strong pre-season favorite. This is a very weird hill to die on.

A weird hill to die on that they didn’t overachieve

Take two steps back and think about what you’re arguing with and try to ignore who posted

 

[simplicio]

They were predicted to be quite good in 2018. As far as I can see in a few minutes of searching, preseason predictions nearly universally had them taking WC1 behind the MFY. Bleacher Report put a number on it and said 90-72.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I can’t believe that you people are fighting with me over if the 2018 Red Sox, a team that won more games than any in team history and capped off with a WS, overachieved.

If you’re just going to disagree with me if I say the sky is blue, you should probably stop replying to my posts.

You know who you are

Your premise is ridiculous. Your defensiveness/doubling down on it is worse. Nobody’s picking on you.

 

[shawnrbu]

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/22586812/chalk-complete-list-2018-mlb-win-totals-odds-playoffs-division-world-series

The Yankees were the preseason favorite to win the AL East in 2018.

Yankees O/U was 94.5.
Red Sox O/U was 92.5.

 

[BigSoxFan]

How are we defining “overachieve”? In sports, it’s typically reserved for teams with lesser talent who do well. If the Chiefs go 14-3 this year instead of 12-5, did they overachieve? Or, were they simply a known good team that finished at the higher end of expected outcomes?

 

[8slim]

I mean, everyone knows this was Jerry Krause. You could have done the San Antonio GM who took Robinson, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, although probably many NBA fans know that too.

It was a joke.

 

[NYCSox]

If the rationale for firing Bloom was that the results suck, I don’t understand why Kennedy said they expect to keep Cora as manager.

As a side note, I would think axing Chaim will make it even harder for Hal to keep Cashman and Boone another year. Maybe Cash could fill Chaim’s shoes???

Cashman? Because we want more bad trades and siginngs?

 

[Ale Xander]

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/22586812/chalk-complete-list-2018-mlb-win-totals-odds-playoffs-division-world-series

The Yankees were the preseason favorite to win the AL East in 2018.

Yankees O/U was 94.5.
Red Sox O/U was 92.5.

Thanks for looking this up
Winning 108 when you’re expected to win 92.5 is categorically overachieving imho but I understand BSF’s fair point

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

I am very, very down on Bloom, but this makes no sense. To the extent he had a plan, next year was when it was going to come to fruition -- the young bucks were going to start rounding into form. Ownership saddled Bloom with the Sale contract and trading Mookie, then dispatched him just when his work was going to bear fruit. I don't get it.

This is where I am (except for being down on Bloom, which I'm not).
In addition, I’m pinning this season on Cora. The lack of preparation evidenced in mental lapses all over the field is on Cora. Sure, the pitching wasn’t great, but it should have been good enough to not suffer series losses or sweeps at the hands the Pirates (0-3), Cardinals (0-3), Rockies (1-2), Angels (0-3 in Anaheim), Guardians (1-2 in Cleveland), Marlins (0-3), A’s (1-2 in Oakland), Giants (1-2) and Nationals (1-2). (Total of 5-21)
One game I was listening to on the radio, Joe and Will were talking about how the Sox had a winning record against the best pitchers in the league. They mentioned hearing from a player that they really got up for those games and concentrated on grinding out at-bats. Great. But that should be EVERY game. That it wasn’t is on the manager and his coaches.
I used to be fine with Cora, but I no longer am. Win even 5 of those games noted above, particularly before the deadline, and this is a completely different season. The Sox would have been in playoff position and Bloom would have been buying pitching at the deadline instead of standing pat. I put those losses on Cora for his preparation.
Now, I expect the Sox to be much better next year. With the luxury tax reset, money coming off the books and good young players coming up, the new POBO should have no problem making significant improvements to the roster. Maybe enough so that not even Cora can screw it up.
But if they win -- and I expect they will -- I'm giving the credit to Bloom for getting them there.

 

[LoLsapien]

I'd like to co-sign the essay written by @Pedroia's Itchy Nose on page 10, post 493. Thanks for taking the time to write that down it fully encapsulates my feelings on this.

 

[Ale Xander]

I'm going to put my take here for posterity, not to argue and what not. I haven't read much of the thread, so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating things that have already been said.

I've generally defended Bloom. I think he's gotten way more hate than he deserves, and I think that firing him could very likely end up proving to be a mistake. I don't think Bloom is perfect either and wouldn't even call myself a "fan" of Bloom. Here's my rationale:

After the 2019 season, my view of the team was decidedly not sanguine. The 2019 club had a lot of talent, but the performance was decidedly mediocre. 84 wins and 9 games out of a wildcard was a depressing followup to 2018. The team had the highest payroll in MLB in 2019 and had pushed past the tax limit for two years running. The clock was about to run out on Betts with Bogaerts, Devers, and JDM looming in the following years. To make matters even worse, the Red Sox were generally considered to have one of if not the worst farm systems in baseball. And to make matters even worse than that, 3 divisional rivals were often ranked in the top 15, with the Rays near the top of the list and the Blue Jays still clocking in toward the middle of the pack despite graduating Vlad Jr., Bo Bichette, and Cavan Biggio.

I didn't see any chance for the Red Sox to compete over the next few years short of a miracle. There just wasn't any realistic way to get better over the short term -- a roster that already isn't good enough, a budget that is already stretched thin, and no help coming from the farm. Furthermore all of our rivals were poised to get better over the next few years due to their farm systems bearing fruit if nothing else.

I was anticipating a few years of doldrums at the very least. I know that some folks have bandied about the idea that the Red Sox were basically competitive from the 2000's through Bloom's hiring, but that just isn't true. Following the 2011 collapse, the Red Sox had terrible seasons in 2012 and 2014 and a bad season in 2015. 2013 came out of absolute nowhere and was surrounded by suck. Then the Sox were very good for 2016-2018 and mediocre in 2019.

It sure seemed like we were headed for a cyclical pattern of garbage seasons followed by excellence followed by more garbage. I thought we were headed for 2012-15 only without the fluke in the middle.

When Bloom was hired, his vision seemed to provide a possible out to that pattern -- pursue success in the mold of the Dodgers. I didn't think a short term fix was possible, but at the very least I hoped that Bloom's approach would provide us with another window toward the middle of the 2020's and then launch into a more perennial cycle of competitiveness as opposed to a boom/bust pattern.

2020 went basically as I expected. The 2021 season came as a complete surprise, much like 2013 only without quite getting all the way. The past two years have been middling, but far from dire performance of 2014 or even 2015. The division is tougher by a margin, and the Red Sox have played meaningful baseball fairly late into the season for both of the past two years. Some of that is due to the expansion of the playoffs, but even with said expansion the 2014-15 Sox would not have been going nearly as deep into the summer if my memory serves. Bloom has managed to do that largely by hitting big on small ticket free agents, much like the 2013 Sox. While not every Bloom acquisition has worked out and a couple have been really bad, I think overall the moves that he has made have been very good.

Meanwhile, the farm system has exceeded my expectations. Bloom's organization has developed more talent than expected out of the bottom-rung farm system that he inherited, and he has stocked the farm impressively with his own contributions.

I think where a lot of valid criticism of Bloom lies is in his non-moves. My impression is that Bloom may be a bit too much of a value hound, and that sometimes perfect gets in the way of the good. Quite a bit of the scuttlebutt following the firing has added weight to this idea, although it's hard to know if that's just the narrative that's being pushed or if there is a factual basis. Regardless, there are quite a few moments when it seemed like Bloom should do something and failed to do so. If indeed there were opportunities that Bloom failed to capitalize on because of maximizing or indecision, then he absolutely deserves criticism for that.

If ownership sees a path to improve upon Bloom's vision by hiring someone who live up to Bloom on the things that Bloom did well while improving upon the areas that he did poorly, then I can understand moving on. I'm definitely concerned though that we're going to see a change in direction that will tilt us back toward the cyclical pattern instead of perennial contention, and I think there's a nonzero risk that the next guy will end up ruining the next contention window on top of that. I hope that doesn't happen.

TL;DR:

• Before Bloom's hiring, I was expecting 2020-2023 to look like 2012-2015 but without the out-of-nowhere 2013 result
• Under Bloom, 2020 was just as expected, 2021 was way better than I expected, and 2022-23 were moderately better than I expected. Basically I was anticipating a couple of F's and a couple of D's, and we got an F, an A (maybe A- if you're a tough grader), and a pair of C+'s. It seems to me that there is a lot of hindsight criticism that he could have maybe gotten those C+'s to B's, and I can't disagree with that, but I also think that discounts the very real accomplishments of turning those F's and D's into C+'s to begin with (not to mention the lucky A).
• Bloom got more out of the farm he inherited than I expected and did a fantastic job of building onto it
• Bloom's lack of action at a few junctures could well have been significant unforced errors. We don't know for sure what opportunities were out there, but if he missed some because he was trying to maximize or was being indecisive, then I think that's a pretty big mark against him.
• There's definitely room for improvement, but there's also a ton of downside risk. I'm more afraid of the downside risk right now than the upside, given that the team should be on the ascendant anyway. Even if the org stays the course, there's no guarantee that Bloom's replacement will outperform him, and worse yet if they mortgage the farm too aggressively we could easily end up in a repeat of 2011/2019 much sooner and have to do it all over again.

Thank you for this great post and the time you took to post it.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Gotta wonder if the Theo thing could happen. i was told back in the early summer there were some talks.

Who told you this?

 

[Quatchie]

Who told you this?

A good friend who I do trust who has marginal connections nothing sexy. From what Kennedy said today (he ruled Theo out) I don't think its a stretch there was some level of conversation that took place.

 

[nvalvo]

This seems to dispel the notion that Bloom was executing a stealth rebuild exactly as ownership wanted (but couldn't publicly admit). Perhaps their hope was to rebuild the farm, and dip under the tax to create space to be more aggressive on the FA market. Bloom could have dipped under the tax last year, but hedged at the deadline. And then he could have subsequently been more aggressive on the FA front in this past off season. He did get Yoshida, but seemed to prioritize short term deals for older players. So, maybe the expectation from ownership was to have a winning team in by 2023, not 2024 or 2025.

I've been critical of Bloom, though recognize he did some things well. And though the team is .500 this year, they do have several seeds of promise, so I expected ownership to give him another year. Surprised.

Does it necessarily dispel that notion? They may have brought him in to do the dirty work and now he gets to be the fall guy.

 

[staz]

Just catching up, but my first thought was 'SoSH is going to be bullshit about this!'

My second thought was Sox went from 30th ranked farm to 5th under Bloom's short tenure (which I thought was the plan) so now I'm pretty confused. Did they seriously expect to beat out Baltimore and TB?

Edit: I just had an horrific thought: "Welcome to Boston, Brian Cashman!"

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I'm going to put my take here for posterity, not to argue and what not. I haven't read much of the thread, so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating things that have already been said.

I've generally defended Bloom. I think he's gotten way more hate than he deserves, and I think that firing him could very likely end up proving to be a mistake. I don't think Bloom is perfect either and wouldn't even call myself a "fan" of Bloom. Here's my rationale:

After the 2019 season, my view of the team was decidedly not sanguine. The 2019 club had a lot of talent, but the performance was decidedly mediocre. 84 wins and 9 games out of a wildcard was a depressing followup to 2018. The team had the highest payroll in MLB in 2019 and had pushed past the tax limit for two years running. The clock was about to run out on Betts with Bogaerts, Devers, and JDM looming in the following years. To make matters even worse, the Red Sox were generally considered to have one of if not the worst farm systems in baseball. And to make matters even worse than that, 3 divisional rivals were often ranked in the top 15, with the Rays near the top of the list and the Blue Jays still clocking in toward the middle of the pack despite graduating Vlad Jr., Bo Bichette, and Cavan Biggio.

I didn't see any chance for the Red Sox to compete over the next few years short of a miracle. There just wasn't any realistic way to get better over the short term -- a roster that already isn't good enough, a budget that is already stretched thin, and no help coming from the farm. Furthermore all of our rivals were poised to get better over the next few years due to their farm systems bearing fruit if nothing else.

I was anticipating a few years of doldrums at the very least. I know that some folks have bandied about the idea that the Red Sox were basically competitive from the 2000's through Bloom's hiring, but that just isn't true. Following the 2011 collapse, the Red Sox had terrible seasons in 2012 and 2014 and a bad season in 2015. 2013 came out of absolute nowhere and was surrounded by suck. Then the Sox were very good for 2016-2018 and mediocre in 2019.

It sure seemed like we were headed for a cyclical pattern of garbage seasons followed by excellence followed by more garbage. I thought we were headed for 2012-15 only without the fluke in the middle.

When Bloom was hired, his vision seemed to provide a possible out to that pattern -- pursue success in the mold of the Dodgers. I didn't think a short term fix was possible, but at the very least I hoped that Bloom's approach would provide us with another window toward the middle of the 2020's and then launch into a more perennial cycle of competitiveness as opposed to a boom/bust pattern.

2020 went basically as I expected. The 2021 season came as a complete surprise, much like 2013 only without quite getting all the way. The past two years have been middling, but far from dire performance of 2014 or even 2015. The division is tougher by a margin, and the Red Sox have played meaningful baseball fairly late into the season for both of the past two years. Some of that is due to the expansion of the playoffs, but even with said expansion the 2014-15 Sox would not have been going nearly as deep into the summer if my memory serves. Bloom has managed to do that largely by hitting big on small ticket free agents, much like the 2013 Sox. While not every Bloom acquisition has worked out and a couple have been really bad, I think overall the moves that he has made have been very good.

Meanwhile, the farm system has exceeded my expectations. Bloom's organization has developed more talent than expected out of the bottom-rung farm system that he inherited, and he has stocked the farm impressively with his own contributions.

I think where a lot of valid criticism of Bloom lies is in his non-moves. My impression is that Bloom may be a bit too much of a value hound, and that sometimes perfect gets in the way of the good. Quite a bit of the scuttlebutt following the firing has added weight to this idea, although it's hard to know if that's just the narrative that's being pushed or if there is a factual basis. Regardless, there are quite a few moments when it seemed like Bloom should do something and failed to do so. If indeed there were opportunities that Bloom failed to capitalize on because of maximizing or indecision, then he absolutely deserves criticism for that.

If ownership sees a path to improve upon Bloom's vision by hiring someone who live up to Bloom on the things that Bloom did well while improving upon the areas that he did poorly, then I can understand moving on. I'm definitely concerned though that we're going to see a change in direction that will tilt us back toward the cyclical pattern instead of perennial contention, and I think there's a nonzero risk that the next guy will end up ruining the next contention window on top of that. I hope that doesn't happen.

TL;DR:

• Before Bloom's hiring, I was expecting 2020-2023 to look like 2012-2015 but without the out-of-nowhere 2013 result
• Under Bloom, 2020 was just as expected, 2021 was way better than I expected, and 2022-23 were moderately better than I expected. Basically I was anticipating a couple of F's and a couple of D's, and we got an F, an A (maybe A- if you're a tough grader), and a pair of C+'s. It seems to me that there is a lot of hindsight criticism that he could have maybe gotten those C+'s to B's, and I can't disagree with that, but I also think that discounts the very real accomplishments of turning those F's and D's into C+'s to begin with (not to mention the lucky A).
• Bloom got more out of the farm he inherited than I expected and did a fantastic job of building onto it
• Bloom's lack of action at a few junctures could well have been significant unforced errors. We don't know for sure what opportunities were out there, but if he missed some because he was trying to maximize or was being indecisive, then I think that's a pretty big mark against him.
• There's definitely room for improvement, but there's also a ton of downside risk. I'm more afraid of the downside risk right now than the upside, given that the team should be on the ascendant anyway. Even if the org stays the course, there's no guarantee that Bloom's replacement will outperform him, and worse yet if they mortgage the farm too aggressively we could easily end up in a repeat of 2011/2019 much sooner and have to do it all over again.

This is really well done. It reflects my feelings very well, but I can't write so good.

 

[8slim]

Does it necessarily dispel that notion? They may have brought him in to do the dirty work and now he gets to be the fall guy.

I don’t know, that seems implausibly cynical.

You think Henry and crew knew in the fall of 2019 that they’d can him as soon as the farm got to a decidedly better place?

 

[reggiecleveland]

I mean, everyone knows this was Jerry Krause. You could have done the San Antonio GM who took Robinson, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, although probably many NBA fans know that too.

You know what would be funny is if some guy drafted Kwame Brown #1 overall then later Adam Morrison #3 then made a documentary and with a straight face said Jerry Krause was a shitty GM. It would be especially classy if Krause was dead and unable to defend himself.

 

[j-man]

its all about your owner wants it both ways he wants the cheap payroll but then worries about the pr blowback from fans media

 

[j-man]

You know what would be funny is if some guy drafted Kwame Brown #1 overall then later Adam Morrison #3 then made a documentary and with a straight face said Jerry Krause was a shitty GM. It would be especially classy if Krause was dead and unable to defend himself.

also wanted watler davis and joe woif just because they went to north car

 

[FlexFlexerson]

If you're of the mind - which I am - that Sale's continued contract and place on the roster has stymied the club's ability to put together a solid rotation then his ability to take out Sox PBO's is essentially unrivaled.

 

[Bergs]

If you're of the mind - which I am - that Sale's continued contract and place on the roster has stymied the club's ability to put together a solid rotation then his ability to take out Sox PBO's is essentially unrivaled.

This has a whole ton of truth to it.

 

[Apisith]

He whiffed on Story. Semien and Seager were more expensive but are better. I think someone else said it right in another thread, better to slightly overpay for the premium players than overpay a lot for the second tier players.

It’s the same story for pitching. If the models said Eflin is a good pitcher, overpay a bit.

He overpaid for Yoshida, which looks like an okay deal. He also overpaid for Devers, which is also okay. But on the pitching side, he whiffed IMO. But I do understand how difficult the pitching market is, there aren’t a lot of options out there.

My biggest gripe is the lack of conviction at the trade deadlines last year and this year. It showed someone who either didn’t fully believe in his vision or felt a lack of support from ownership.

 

[LogansDad]

I'm going to put my take here for posterity, not to argue and what not. I haven't read much of the thread, so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating things that have already been said.

I've generally defended Bloom. I think he's gotten way more hate than he deserves, and I think that firing him could very likely end up proving to be a mistake. I don't think Bloom is perfect either and wouldn't even call myself a "fan" of Bloom. Here's my rationale:

After the 2019 season, my view of the team was decidedly not sanguine. The 2019 club had a lot of talent, but the performance was decidedly mediocre. 84 wins and 9 games out of a wildcard was a depressing followup to 2018. The team had the highest payroll in MLB in 2019 and had pushed past the tax limit for two years running. The clock was about to run out on Betts with Bogaerts, Devers, and JDM looming in the following years. To make matters even worse, the Red Sox were generally considered to have one of if not the worst farm systems in baseball. And to make matters even worse than that, 3 divisional rivals were often ranked in the top 15, with the Rays near the top of the list and the Blue Jays still clocking in toward the middle of the pack despite graduating Vlad Jr., Bo Bichette, and Cavan Biggio.

I didn't see any chance for the Red Sox to compete over the next few years short of a miracle. There just wasn't any realistic way to get better over the short term -- a roster that already isn't good enough, a budget that is already stretched thin, and no help coming from the farm. Furthermore all of our rivals were poised to get better over the next few years due to their farm systems bearing fruit if nothing else.

I was anticipating a few years of doldrums at the very least. I know that some folks have bandied about the idea that the Red Sox were basically competitive from the 2000's through Bloom's hiring, but that just isn't true. Following the 2011 collapse, the Red Sox had terrible seasons in 2012 and 2014 and a bad season in 2015. 2013 came out of absolute nowhere and was surrounded by suck. Then the Sox were very good for 2016-2018 and mediocre in 2019.

It sure seemed like we were headed for a cyclical pattern of garbage seasons followed by excellence followed by more garbage. I thought we were headed for 2012-15 only without the fluke in the middle.

When Bloom was hired, his vision seemed to provide a possible out to that pattern -- pursue success in the mold of the Dodgers. I didn't think a short term fix was possible, but at the very least I hoped that Bloom's approach would provide us with another window toward the middle of the 2020's and then launch into a more perennial cycle of competitiveness as opposed to a boom/bust pattern.

2020 went basically as I expected. The 2021 season came as a complete surprise, much like 2013 only without quite getting all the way. The past two years have been middling, but far from dire performance of 2014 or even 2015. The division is tougher by a margin, and the Red Sox have played meaningful baseball fairly late into the season for both of the past two years. Some of that is due to the expansion of the playoffs, but even with said expansion the 2014-15 Sox would not have been going nearly as deep into the summer if my memory serves. Bloom has managed to do that largely by hitting big on small ticket free agents, much like the 2013 Sox. While not every Bloom acquisition has worked out and a couple have been really bad, I think overall the moves that he has made have been very good.

Meanwhile, the farm system has exceeded my expectations. Bloom's organization has developed more talent than expected out of the bottom-rung farm system that he inherited, and he has stocked the farm impressively with his own contributions.

I think where a lot of valid criticism of Bloom lies is in his non-moves. My impression is that Bloom may be a bit too much of a value hound, and that sometimes perfect gets in the way of the good. Quite a bit of the scuttlebutt following the firing has added weight to this idea, although it's hard to know if that's just the narrative that's being pushed or if there is a factual basis. Regardless, there are quite a few moments when it seemed like Bloom should do something and failed to do so. If indeed there were opportunities that Bloom failed to capitalize on because of maximizing or indecision, then he absolutely deserves criticism for that.

If ownership sees a path to improve upon Bloom's vision by hiring someone who live up to Bloom on the things that Bloom did well while improving upon the areas that he did poorly, then I can understand moving on. I'm definitely concerned though that we're going to see a change in direction that will tilt us back toward the cyclical pattern instead of perennial contention, and I think there's a nonzero risk that the next guy will end up ruining the next contention window on top of that. I hope that doesn't happen.

TL;DR:

• Before Bloom's hiring, I was expecting 2020-2023 to look like 2012-2015 but without the out-of-nowhere 2013 result
• Under Bloom, 2020 was just as expected, 2021 was way better than I expected, and 2022-23 were moderately better than I expected. Basically I was anticipating a couple of F's and a couple of D's, and we got an F, an A (maybe A- if you're a tough grader), and a pair of C+'s. It seems to me that there is a lot of hindsight criticism that he could have maybe gotten those C+'s to B's, and I can't disagree with that, but I also think that discounts the very real accomplishments of turning those F's and D's into C+'s to begin with (not to mention the lucky A).
• Bloom got more out of the farm he inherited than I expected and did a fantastic job of building onto it
• Bloom's lack of action at a few junctures could well have been significant unforced errors. We don't know for sure what opportunities were out there, but if he missed some because he was trying to maximize or was being indecisive, then I think that's a pretty big mark against him.
• There's definitely room for improvement, but there's also a ton of downside risk. I'm more afraid of the downside risk right now than the upside, given that the team should be on the ascendant anyway. Even if the org stays the course, there's no guarantee that Bloom's replacement will outperform him, and worse yet if they mortgage the farm too aggressively we could easily end up in a repeat of 2011/2019 much sooner and have to do it all over again.

Thank you for this. I would have loved to have the capacity to put it together myself, and it really hits on how I feel.

 

[67YAZ]

He whiffed on Story. Semien and Seager were more expensive but are better. I think someone else said it right in another thread, better to slightly overpay for the premium players than overpay a lot for the second tier players.

It’s the same story for pitching. If the models said Eflin is a good pitcher, overpay a bit.

"It isn't the high price of stars that is expensive, it's the high price of mediocrity." -Bill Veeck

 

[cantor44]

Does it necessarily dispel that notion? They may have brought him in to do the dirty work and now he gets to be the fall guy.

Though if he was doing the dirty work that they charged him to do why would they need a fall guy? To quell the angry masses? If a stealth 4-6 year rebuild was the organizational plan all along, surely they would have anticipated the angry masses and not scapegoated Bloom when the pitchforks showed up.

 

[eno2259]

Blaming Chris Sale's contract for Bloom's missteps is disingenuous. All teams have albatross contracts. Sale's contract was TERRIBLE at the time and should have never been offered or approved but to hold it as an excuse for Bloom's failings and collection of bad mid-range contracts that cost just as much is deflection.

 

[Auger34]

I don’t know, that seems implausibly cynical.

You think Henry and crew knew in the fall of 2019 that they’d can him as soon as the farm got to a decidedly better place?

No, you’re right, it is horribly cynical.

It’s also the type of thing that if the same type of psychology was used to disparage Bloom, the poster would be savaged and sent out of here on a pike

 

[Apisith]

Bloom getting fired for having a better season (in terms of having more cost-controlled players, payroll in a better place) than Cashman and having a much better farm system is a funny thing.

 

[Ale Xander]

Though if he was doing the dirty work that they charged him to do why would they need a fall guy? To quell the angry masses? If a stealth 4-6 year rebuild was the organizational plan all along, surely they would have anticipated the angry masses and not scapegoated Bloom when the pitchforks showed up.

They scapegoat everyone, even the successful guys like Tito

 

[nvalvo]

I don’t know, that seems implausibly cynical.

You think Henry and crew knew in the fall of 2019 that they’d can him as soon as the farm got to a decidedly better place?

To be clear, I don't think that. I just think that reasoning like the bolded...

Though if he was doing the dirty work that they charged him to do why would they need a fall guy? To quell the angry masses? If a stealth 4-6 year rebuild was the organizational plan all along, surely they would have anticipated the angry masses and not scapegoated Bloom when the pitchforks showed up.

...is maybe a touch naive. If ownership anticipated angry masses following from their direction, wouldn't they be looking for a PR strategy? Mightn't that strategy involve bringing in a (well-remunerated!) figurehead who would serve as a lightning rod redirecting that fan criticism? Sports owners fire executives and coaches for dubious reasons all the time, and this ownership group hasn't been shy about leaking unflattering things about outgoing personnel. Lucchino is gone, it's true, but its not like Henry and Warner protested publicly when they leaked that Francona had allegedly become dependent on prescription painkillers.

Or, what Ale Xander said:

They scapegoat everyone, even the successful guys like Tito and Theo

THANK YOU.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Not very solid reasoning. Winning a championship does not excuse all mistakes. For example, if Dombrowski were still here and the Red Sox hadn't won more than 70 games in a season since 2020, people would be calling for his head.

Well, Sale and Price did result in the team's hoisting a flag that is still flying. And Sale's extension led to a payroll crunch and at least indirectly led to Dombrowski's firing.


Except I don't think Henry was amused that last season's deadline left the team above the tax threshold leading into an offseason in which they said goodbye to a couple of key free agents. The trade deadline is one of the key responsibilities of a GM, so subsequent failures are not "overblown" by any means.

Flags fly forever is very solid reasoning.

That being said, Dombrowski was very guilty of transacting based on emotions (either his or fans). He extended Sale and it was immediately a bad move. Conversely, he extended Eovaldi and I think many of us on here felt it was an overreaction to his playoff performance. It turned out to be a great deal for both sides.

Dombrowski was far from perfect and Bloom was brought in because Dombrowski was far from perfect. If we're believing the narrative that he was told his first order of business was to deal Mookie than it's unfair to criticism him on that. I will absolutely criticize him on everything else however. That everything else for me was a failure to follow through on a true plan of roster construction from 2020-2023. Every roster was remarkably flawed, even the one that over performed and made it to the ALCS.

To be more optimistic, the 2021 Wild Card game was the best Fenway crowd I've ever experienced. That team exceeded my expectations and was a true pleasure to watch. I had the opportunity to thank Bloom for that experience and did so, humbly in person. I expected him to be given this offseason to build a contender but if the front office doesn't think he's capable than so be it.

 

[JM3]

I think this is a pretty fair & reasonable take.

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxpayroll/status/1702391199082873256

I'm sort of shocked at the news today about Bloom. That said, it feels like two things are at play.

1. The last 4 years were a rebuild. That word wasn't used publicly by the team, but that's what it was. Only difference was they spent up to the tax, which teams generally don't do during a rebuild. It confused the public.

2. They used what Bloom was good at and assessed they needed someone to take them beyond the rebuild and into the free agency/championship building period. We can't know if he would have succeed at what they were about to do this Winter. We'll never know if he could have finished the job or not.

All of that said, Bloom just showed that if someone wants to hire him to rebuild their franchise, he's great at that. Imagine what would have happened if the Red Sox had publicly stated they don't plan to be competitive for a while as he built up the team. I doubt anyone looks down on the job he did in that scenario. We expected winning results because no one called it a rebuild. They just said as much in the press conference that he did a fantastic job repositioning the organization for success. Another org will benefit from hiring him to do the same thing, and if they call it a rebuild he'll be appreciated a lot more.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Though the team won a Championship under Cherington.

I believe Cherington was the victim of Dombrowski becoming available.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Bloom getting fired for having a better season (in terms of having more cost-controlled players, payroll in a better place) than Cashman and having a much better farm system is a funny thing.

Cashman and Boone should have been fired several years ago. As Red Sox fans we should be thrilled that they're both in place.

 

[TapeAndPosts]

We have often said on SoSH that these last few years were a rebuild, maybe a stealth rebuild but a rebuild all the same. And the window was about to open and that had been the plan all along.

What I think I've learned today is Sox ownership did not see it that way.

 

[chawson]

We have often said on SoSH that these last few years were a rebuild, maybe a stealth rebuild but a rebuild all the same. And the window was about to open and that had been the plan all along.

What I think I've learned today is Sox ownership did not see it that way.

Then why have they been more concerned with staying under the luxury tax threshold more than any time in the last 20 years?