The TrevorEnding Story: needs shoulder surgery, out for the year (4/9 update)

The_Dali

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Could be; it’s always hard to say for sure how “freak” an injury is. But don’t let that stop you from taking advantage of his misfortune (or his physical shortcomings) to take a shot at the stupidity of other posters.
Only pointing out that the guy cannot stay healthy and banking on him being healthy is foolish thinking. At what point do “freak” or “injuries beyond his control” become the norm and we accept that?

…and I never said people were stupid… I love the optimism… but at some point you have to look at the facts and understand what you have before you.
 

The_Dali

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Sadly, this Story signing was bad from the minute the ink was dry. We will carry on, but super disappointing.

I just saw Strider is getting an MRI… MLB is really having a tough time with all these injuries.
 

sean1562

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What is up with the Romy Gonzalez love? He has a .600 OPS over 86 games in MLB(.585 OPS last year in 44 games). Hamilton steals bases and hopefully nobody they call up will be starting many games. Cedanne at SS, OF of Duran/O'Neill/Abreu is fine for now. Does it make sense to move O'Neill to CF?

edit: Romy has good numbers in AAA so far this year but Hamilton had a 1.222 OPS through the first 5 games of the year in AAA last year.
 

E5 Yaz

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The way Hamilton makes sense is if they're still in an evaluation phase with Story. Which does make sense with a return East in a couple days.

If it's long term, let's hope for a different strategy.
Exactly. That's why you make the fungible guy make the cross-country trip.
 

The_Dali

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What is up with the Romy Gonzalez love? He has a .600 OPS over 86 games in MLB(.585 OPS last year in 44 games). Hamilton steals bases and hopefully nobody they call up will be starting many games. Cedanne at SS, OF of Duran/O'Neill/Abreu is fine for now. Does it make sense to move O'Neill to CF?
this is the play. If you want to keep D as a priority then you move RAF to SS and O’Neill to CF
 

simplicio

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What is up with the Romy Gonzalez love? He has a .600 OPS over 86 games in MLB(.585 OPS last year in 44 games). Hamilton steals bases and hopefully nobody they call up will be starting many games. Cedanne at SS, OF of Duran/O'Neill/Abreu is fine for now. Does it make sense to move O'Neill to CF?
He looks like a much more competent defender with more positional flexibility than Hamilton and he's been hitting the bejesus out of the ball so far.
 

Margo McCready

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this is the play. If you want to keep D as a priority then you move RAF to SS and O’Neill to CF
I hate taking Rafaela out of center but this is probably best for the team if Story’s out. Plus, I think it may be a bit premature to pull the plug on Abreu. This gives them a chance to see what he can do.
 

Ale Xander

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Romy still has options, so that's not the reason. Weird to me to bring up Hamilton. Blizzard is fast but doesn't offer much else.
I think many would disagree but it was tellling to me that Hamilton was at DH at Worcester for their doubleheader opener. You downgrade 2 positions anyway defensively with whatever move you do, but weird that we chose to do it to MIF instead of OF

Lots of Reyes at SS and Valdez/Blizzard at 2B. Not fun. But I like Rafaela in CF and DUran and Oneill in the corners.
 
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sean1562

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Rafaela is great in CF, but having him get experience all over the diamond is good, no? In an ideal world, where all our top prospects pan out, the best configuration is Mayer at SS, Anthony in CF, Grissom at 2b, and Rafaela filling in all over the diamond, I think. It would be good to get him some reps at SS so he can keep up that skill set.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I think many would disagree but it was tellling to me that Hamilton was at DH at Worcester for their opener. You downgrade 2 positions anyway defensively with whatever move you do, but weird that we chose to do it to MIF instead of OF
Their home opener was Tuesday and Hamilton was at SS. Yesterday was a double-header where he DH'd in game one and played SS in game 2.
 

GB5

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Too bad Mookie isn’t still here, as he has shown he can handle short..(just kidding).

If this ends in the worst case scenario, and he is done for the year, and the Sox maybe uncharacteristically show that they want to fix the position for the rest of the year, is it too early to look at who likely trade partners are for a new shortstop, with the condition that the SS to be acquired is on the last year of his deal, as I assume the Sox will want Story back at SS next year, or in the event that Mayer goes off in the minors this year then him at SS?
 

simplicio

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Rafaela is great in CF, but having him get experience all over the diamond is good, no? In an ideal world, where all our top prospects pan out, the best configuration is Mayer at SS, Anthony in CF, Grissom at 2b, and Rafaela filling in all over the diamond, I think. It would be good to get him some reps at SS so he can keep up that skill set.
I think ideally it would be Duran Rafaela Anthony in the OF, Abreu backing up. We're thinner on capable OF than IF in the near future.
 

joe dokes

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Sadly, this Story signing was bad from the minute the ink was dry. We will carry on, but super disappointing.

I just saw Strider is getting an MRI… MLB is really having a tough time with all these injuries.
Ergo, the Strider signing was "bad from the minute the ink was dry"?
 

Ale Xander

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First of all, I would implore people not to post Jesse Morse stuff from Twitter. He is a total fraud in every way, a complete charlatan. Just about the worst source of info out there.

Not this particular tweet, just in a general sense. Limited expertise, bizarro theories, sells unproven snake-oil type stuff. Sorry for the tangent.

Seems pretty likely this was a subluxation/dislocation event for Story. The hope is that the labral tear is minimal, there isn’t a fracture, and it can be managed with rehab. Surgery is fairly likely (Tatis comparison above is good), but if he’s lucky it could be in the offseason.
Oh thanks. Didn’t know. Really appreciate your post. I see now he went to med school in St Kitts. Not that the school is necessaily bad, just questioning the motives for going there. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa nonetheless.
 
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richgedman'sghost

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What expertise do you have in the field? He was in pain and writhing on the ground, so his career must be over? Never mind that he wasn't even in a sling post game, they allowed him to talk to the media, and there has been no imaging at all yet.

He's also never had surgery on his left arm/shoulder, is 31, and according to the man himself has never had an issue with it at all up to now. He also said they didn't even know if it popped out, and said if it did, it was "maybe for a second". At this point I'm just as concerned about his labrum as I am the joint itself.

It absolutely sucks and is a big blow to both Story and the Sox, but it's probably a good idea for everyone to take a deep breath until we have an idea of exactly what they're looking at before we wash Story's season, never mind career, down the drain.
Sorry I should have probably put a LOL or made a .. I was just playing off the doom and gloom of the previous posters in the thread. I should have made myself clearer. It does sux though without a doubt.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Sadly, this Story signing was bad from the minute the ink was dry. We will carry on, but super disappointing.

I just saw Strider is getting an MRI… MLB is really having a tough time with all these injuries.
Now Shane Bierber is heading for Tommy John surgery in Cleveland. What a rash of injuries in the first two weeks of ⚾ baseball. Talk about an injury prone player. Shane has missed time in 21 23 24 and obviously part of 2025.
It's not just the Red Sox suffering from injuries.
 

lexrageorge

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Story is proof that (a) freak injuries do happen; and (b) there is no way to reliably predict which healthy player will suffer a freak shoulder injury fielding a ball.
 

ZMart100

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How about the consistently-productive and often-overlooked Nick Sogard?

https://www.soxprospects.com/players/sogard-nick.htm

I feel like we know what we’re getting with Hamilton and it sucks. Sogard feels much more likely to at least get to “meh”. Competent fielder and can get on base a little. (Minus points for being Steve Sax’s nephew!)
Sogard would require a 40 man move. Maybe if Story goes on the 60-day, but I don't think we know if Story will need that yet.

I'm fine for now with Hamilton as a utility fielder who watches more games than he plays.
 

Rovin Romine

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Sogard would require a 40 man move. Maybe if Story goes on the 60-day, but I don't think we know if Story will need that yet.

I'm fine for now with Hamilton as a utility fielder who watches more games than he plays.
FWIW, Hamilton had no handedness split in AAA in '22, but in his better '23 campaign, showed a .100 OPS split. But it's not like he's shown a straight-up LHP vulnerability in AAA.

Detmers is starting tonight for the As, so I would think Reyes gets the nod at SS.

Tomorrow is Silseth, RHP, so Hamilton might go, unless there's a pitcher type profile in play.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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Might as well be the first (I think) to suggest it this season, but assuming Story is headed for the 60day, I would like to see Breslow see what it takes for the Mets to move Iglesias and his minor league deal (not sure if he has an opt out at the end of the month or some such).

I’d assume the cost would be of the “cash considerations or PTBNL” variety. Go out and get someone that (at least as of 2022) was still an above average defensive SS in the major leagues.

At least that would keep SS and CF defense strong. The offense is going to suck from any of Reyes, Hamilton or whoever. At least go get an above average defensive player.
 

Fishy1

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Might as well be the first (I think) to suggest it this season, but assuming Story is headed for the 60day, I would like to see Breslow see what it takes for the Mets to move Iglesias and his minor league deal (not sure if he has an opt out at the end of the month or some such).

I’d assume the cost would be of the “cash considerations or PTBNL” variety. Go out and get someone that (at least as of 2022) was still an above average defensive SS in the major leagues.

At least that would keep SS and CF defense strong. The offense is going to suck from any of Reyes, Hamilton or whoever. At least go get an above average defensive player.
If I remember correctly, word is Iglesias hasn't been an above average SS defensively the past couple years, but his defensive fWAR was positive as recently as 2022. I don't know what to believe, tbh, but he's 34 now and there's a good chance he's lost a step.
 

nvalvo

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What is up with the Romy Gonzalez love? He has a .600 OPS over 86 games in MLB(.585 OPS last year in 44 games). Hamilton steals bases and hopefully nobody they call up will be starting many games. Cedanne at SS, OF of Duran/O'Neill/Abreu is fine for now. Does it make sense to move O'Neill to CF?

edit: Romy has good numbers in AAA so far this year but Hamilton had a 1.222 OPS through the first 5 games of the year in AAA last year.
The key piece of information about Romy is that he had *gulp* a persistent shoulder injury that sapped his power (pretty good in the minors) for most of his time in Chicago. As soon as he showed up apparently healthy in Spring Training, he started to get interesting. It’s not that we think his HR and 3b yesterday are his true talent; it’s that they are evidence of a healthy shoulder and thus a chance of living up to the minor league track record.
 

pjheff

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Tomorrow is Silseth, RHP, so Hamilton might go, unless there's a pitcher type profile in play.
I would hope that Hamilton is here as depth and a late inning pinch runner while Story is being evaluated and a longer-better term plan is formulated.
 

SouthernBoSox

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I would hope that Hamilton is here as depth and a late inning pinch runner while Story is being evaluated and a longer-better term plan is formulated.
It’s 100% this. They are across the country for 2 more games.

This is just a bench piece move as they get more info.

If they do determine it’s long term, I’d expect Romy to meet them for the home opener.
 

simplicio

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Anderson has started the season looking worse than he did last year, no thanks.
 

YTF

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It’s 100% this. They are across the country for 2 more games.

This is just a bench piece move as they get more info.

If they do determine it’s long term, I’d expect Romy to meet them for the home opener.
Yeah if Romy's the choice, it probably makes sense to just let him stay in WOOstah to play today and tomorrow vs Buffalo and then meet up with the team in Boston on Monday rather than to have him fly cross country twice in just a couple of days.
 

Coachster

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I have a plan.

Yes, this plan sucks, but it is a plan. (and of course, my plan involves the front office actually spending money, so it won't happen anyway.)

You want to move Duran to center? OK, let's go. Who plays left? Our old pal Tommy Pham. Unsigned and ready. Go get him Theo.
 

bosockboy

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I have a plan.

Yes, this plan sucks, but it is a plan. (and of course, my plan involves the front office actually spending money, so it won't happen anyway.)

You want to move Duran to center? OK, let's go. Who plays left? Our old pal Tommy Pham. Unsigned and ready. Go get him Theo.
Solid idea.
 

Hendu Candu

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Might as well be the first (I think) to suggest it this season, but assuming Story is headed for the 60day, I would like to see Breslow see what it takes for the Mets to move Iglesias and his minor league deal (not sure if he has an opt out at the end of the month or some such).

I’d assume the cost would be of the “cash considerations or PTBNL” variety. Go out and get someone that (at least as of 2022) was still an above average defensive SS in the major leagues.

At least that would keep SS and CF defense strong. The offense is going to suck from any of Reyes, Hamilton or whoever. At least go get an above average defensive player.
Not really a Red Sox season until someone suggests we bring back Iglesias.
 

Rovin Romine

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How about the consistently-productive and often-overlooked Nick Sogard?

https://www.soxprospects.com/players/sogard-nick.htm

I feel like we know what we’re getting with Hamilton and it sucks. Sogard feels much more likely to at least get to “meh”. Competent fielder and can get on base a little. (Minus points for being Steve Sax’s nephew!)
Sogard does not seem to have much of a high ceiling.

Romy Gonzalez (as pointed out uphread) has had a persistent shoulder injury that may have sapped some power.

But in that vein we should consider Hamilton. He missed most of the 2019 and 2020 development years due to an injury and then Covid. So he only started MiL ball in 2021 at age 23. He's 26 now. I have a feeling if he were a 24 year old prospect, he'd be given a greater amount of slack. And, experientially, that's what he is.

I'm not saying he does not have holes in his game, but I think he's got a chance to be more of a contributor than Sogard might.

All that said, I'm not sure there's a hands-down obvious-best choice here.
 

YTF

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I have a plan.

Yes, this plan sucks, but it is a plan. (and of course, my plan involves the front office actually spending money, so it won't happen anyway.)

You want to move Duran to center? OK, let's go. Who plays left? Our old pal Tommy Pham. Unsigned and ready. Go get him Theo.
IMO, unless Rafaela is going to be deemed a long term option at SS there are two better CF options on the 26 man roster now. Short term I would leave Duran in LF, move O'Neill to CF and let Abreu play in RF. If Romy Gonzalez is an option at SS then let him play there and keep the current OF with Abreu as the 4th OF.
 

Max Power

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Hamilton looked terrible at short when he was up last year. I hope this is just a stop gap until they get back home.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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Not really a Red Sox season until someone suggests we bring back Iglesias.
Believe me, I don’t like the idea.

I just like the idea of Pablo Reyes for a full season far less. Reyes just is plain old not a good baseball player. He’s a career -2.6 UZR player at SS. The eye ball test matches too. He also can’t hit - but that is secondary at this point. Hamilton is even worse.

At least invest in the pitching staff by giving them a decent defensive SS. Someone mentioned Jorge Mateo earlier, and I’d drastically prefer that idea. But it would cost actual assets. I don’t think Iglesias would. But assuming Story is out at least two months, go find an all glove SS that won’t destroy everything Bailey is trying to accomplish with the pitching staff too.
 

radsoxfan

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Oh thanks. Didn’t know. Really appreciate your post. I see now he went to med school in St Kitts. Not that the school is necessaily bad, just questioning the motives for going there. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa nonetheless.
Haha, all good, no way for you to know. His training is what it is, plenty of good and bad docs from there.

Morse is notorious in the legitimate orthopedic community for taking advantage of people by selling all kinds of unproven treatments. If you see his tweets about injuries they are often bizarre, a mix of some orthopedic knowledge combined with nonsense.

Brian Sutterer on Twitter is pretty good and also Sports Medicine rather than Orthopedic Surgeon. If people want a twitter doc that it usually on top of injuries, I recommend him. He has recently been calling Morse out, though plenty of others have in the past as well.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Believe me, I don’t like the idea.

I just like the idea of Pablo Reyes for a full season far less. Reyes just is plain old not a good baseball player. He’s a career -2.6 UZR player at SS. The eye ball test matches too. He also can’t hit - but that is secondary at this point. Hamilton is even worse.

At least invest in the pitching staff by giving them a decent defensive SS. Someone mentioned Jorge Mateo earlier, and I’d drastically prefer that idea. But it would cost actual assets. I don’t think Iglesias would. But assuming Story is out at least two months, go find an all glove SS that won’t destroy everything Bailey is trying to accomplish with the pitching staff too.
Something worth noting about Iglesias is he was released (at his own request via an opt-out) by the Padres last June when he had no shot at being called up to the big leagues. No one, including the SS-starved Red Sox, picked him up after that. Now he's toiling in the Mets farm system. Iglesias is toast. If we're going to bring back former Sox for defensive purposes, I'd rather they sign JBJ out of the independent leagues and move Rafaela to SS. Neither is going to happen nor should they.
 

The_Dali

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Ergo, the Strider signing was "bad from the minute the ink was dry"?
huh? Not comparable. Sorry if my wording made it seem like they were connected. Wasn’t linking the two.


Story was had at a discount and bloom pounced because they were never signing Xander. Story was a second tier SS who hit overpaid by bloom. On top of that, he’s been injured for most of his tenure with Boston. But I was never in favor of the signing at all because I knew it was the end if Xander in a Red Sox uniform.
 
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shepard50

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huh? Not comparable. Sorry if my wording made it seem like they were connected. Wasn’t linking the two.
Story was had at a discount and bloom pounced because they were never signing Xander. Story was a second tier SS who hit overpaid by bloom. On top of that, he’s been injured for most of his tenure with Boston. But I was never in favor of the signing at all because I knew it was the end if Xander in a Red Sox uniform.
I think the point being made with Strider is that: all injuries make signings look bad in hindsight.

By the by, what do you call your writing style?
 

Merkle's Boner

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I really think people are overthinking this. SS is the most important defensive position on the field and the Sox fortunately have someone who everyone seems to think is a plus defender at that position. Move Cedanne there and have ONeill, Duran and Abreu handle the OF in some form. That keeps the lineup the strongest and strengthens the middle of the IF.
 

Rasputin

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I really think people are overthinking this. SS is the most important defensive position on the field and the Sox fortunately have someone who everyone seems to think is a plus defender at that position. Move Cedanne there and have ONeill, Duran and Abreu handle the OF in some form. That keeps the lineup the strongest and strengthens the middle of the IF.
If story is out for the season, our chances of making the post season are pretty close to zero so we should make decisions with a long term future involved. That might mean leaving Rafaela in a familiar position as he transitions to the majors.