This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots

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Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Awful.

It’s so painful to consider this team locked up both Parker and Smith Schuster to relatively big multi-year deals.

Do they cut both and eat the dead money remaining on their deals? Neither seem like a candidate for a bounce-back year or breakout 2024. For the production, you’re better off drafting a couple more prospects in the middle rounds and rolling them out with Pop and Boutte (I don’t see how Thornton makes this team next year).
Believe me, you don't want me to post those same numbers for #1 receivers around the league either. I chose Jakobi because they let him walk, but if you look at the numbers of #1 receivers (which Parker is supposed to be around here, especially without JuJu), woah boy, it's fucking depressing.
 

Garshaparra

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Cutting Parker in 2024 would cost "only" $6M in cap, and with the amount of free space, I'm fairly certain he's a goner. Juju is a $12M cut next year though, so they'd have to think long and hard. Two huge, dumb swing-and-misses.
 

astrozombie

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Cutting Parker in 2024 would cost "only" $6M in cap, and with the amount of free space, I'm fairly certain he's a goner. Juju is a $12M cut next year though, so they'd have to think long and hard. Two huge, dumb swing-and-misses.
You could easily add Agholor to that list too.

ETA: as a swing and a miss. obv he is no longer with the Pats.
 

BigJimEd

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Parker's salary is guaranteed next year so no monetary/cap savings by cutting him. However, a trade would save them his 3.2M in salary. That's pretty short money for another team so I think it is at least a possibility. That's about what Baltimore gave Agholor. Jets gave Cobb $3M although that was likely due to Rodgers.
Maybe they can find a desperate team before the deadline. OK, that's probably a bit too optimistic.
 

8slim

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I’d say after the shitshow today that the season is over. It arguably already was over, but I was trying to be stupidly optimistic. If they lost a hard fought, well played game today I’d squint and say they could go 5-0 against their next set of soft opponents. But that ain’t happening. We’re bad. Real bad.

I know the NFL ain’t MLB and deadline trade volume isn’t nearly similar, but I sure hope they trade away anything of value if they can. There’s no one on O I’d bother keeping, except maybe Douglas. And they can chuck anyone on D that doesn’t seem re-signable.

Burn it down, get picks.
 

BigJimEd

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Agreed. Not a new thought but today cemented it. Get what you can for guys not expected back.

Probably signing guys this offseason so comp picks aren't guaranteed either.
 

gattman

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They should ship out whatever they can but who has value to another team that may actually return something— a concussed Parker? An injured & underwhelming Uche?

For contrast the word here in DC is that the Commanders are dealing. They at least have Montez Sweat & Chase Young to shop. And the rumor is that eager new owner Josh Harris is willing to throw in James Harden . . .
 

amfox1

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Agreed. Not a new thought but today cemented it. Get what you can for guys not expected back.
So, you're ok with the following?

MacJones to MIN for 4th & 6th (signed $4.25mm 2023, $4.95mm 2024, 2025 option)
Onwenu to SF for 4th (signed $3mm 2023)
Uche+5th to DET for 3rd (signed $1.7mm 2023)
Gesicki to CIN for 6th (signed $4.45mm 2023)

I assume no one other than SF & CLE will be able to take on the contracts of Brown, D.Andrews, JJSS or Henry, and neither Parker nor Bourne is tradeable due to injury.

I'd also dangle Jonathan Jones ($6.2mm 2023, $12.75mm 2024).
 

twibnotes

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So, you're ok with the following?

MacJones to MIN for 4th & 6th (signed $4.25mm 2023, $4.95mm 2024, 2025 option)
Onwenu to SF for 4th (signed $3mm 2023)
Uche+5th to DET for 3rd (signed $1.7mm 2023)
Gesicki to CIN for 6th (signed $4.45mm 2023)

I assume no one other than SF & CLE will be able to take on the contracts of Brown, D.Andrews, JJSS or Henry, and neither Parker nor Bourne is tradeable due to injury.

I'd also dangle Jonathan Jones ($6.2mm 2023, $12.75mm 2024).
onwenu is precisely the type of guy they need to keep imo. It’s becoming harder to build a good o line with all young guys - they barely practice anymore
 

Salva135

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Oct 19, 2008
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This team walked into the division this year with the least talented offense by a huge margin. They were in trouble from the start. 2-6, the bottom of the division sounds about right.

Yes, maybe Mac could make a jump. He didn't.
 

JimD

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I'd love to know what Robert and Johnathan's thought process is/was regarding the coming transition and how the front office would be structured. When Belichick was ready to hand the reins of the team to (presumably) Mayo, would he still stay on and oversee the front office? Was the plan that Matt Groh would be ready by them to be a full-fledged GM? Clearly, the decision to zag while the rest of the NFL is zigging is failing, and while it is easy to assume that this plan was a product of Belichick's thinking, it is also crucial to the future success of this football operation to have people in place who aren't going to repeat mistakes like extending Parker instead of Jakobi Meyers or looking at JSS and thinking he still had something in the tank and would be a good fit on this team.
 

rodderick

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The BB troop is going to need to make a convincing argument why BB should be handed a top 5 pick in 2024.
I'm fully confident in Belichick's ability to pick a stud at 5, he's generally done very well with higher picks in the first round, I'm even confident he could find a good QB at that spot, just have zero confidence he'd maximize said QB's development.
 

Salva135

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I'm fully confident in Belichick's ability to pick a stud at 5, he's generally done very well with higher picks in the first round, I'm even confident he could find a good QB at that spot, just have zero confidence he'd maximize said QB's development.
I'm not Judge Judy and I've never watched her, but I'm gonna play her.

What makes you so confident? He failed on a top 15 QB. And there are no weapons for this top 5 guy. What makes you think BB can suddenly turn this around with anyone despite the absolute talent disaster of this season that is entirely on him?

You said he's done "very well" with "higher picks in the first round." Show your work.

Also, who is your stud?
 

rodderick

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I'm not Judge Judy and I've never watched her, but I'm gonna play her.

What makes you so confident? He failed on a top 15 QB. And there are no weapons for this top 5 guy. What makes you think BB can suddenly turn this around with anyone despite the absolute talent disaster of this season that is entirely on him?
There's a huge difference between picking a QB top 5 and likely getting one of the 2/3 best available, and picking at 15 and getting the 5th best QB on the board. As for the bolded, I already explained I don't have faith he'll develop the player properly. All I'm arguing is that I'm fairly confident that if Bill has a top 5 pick, he won't get the Zach Wilson/Trey Lance equivalent QB of his class at that spot.
 

BaseballJones

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Here's the complete list of BB first draft picks with the Patriots:

2001 - #6 - DE/DT Richard Seymour
2002 - #21 - TE Daniel Graham
2003 - #13 - DE Ty Warren
2004 - #21 - DT Vince Wilfork
2004 - #32 - TE Ben Watson
2005 - #31 - OG Logan Mankins
2006 - #21 - RB Laurence Maroney
2007 - #24 - S Brandon Meriweather
2008 - #10 - LB Jerod Mayo
2010 - #27 - DB Devin McCourty
2011 - #17 - OT Nate Solder
2012 - #21 - DE Chandler Jones
2012 - #25 - LB Dont'a Hightower
2014 - #29 - DT Dominique Easley
2015 - #32 - DT Malcom Brown
2018 - #23 - OT Isaiah Wynn
2018 - #31 - RB Sony Michel
2019 - #32 - WR N'Keal Harry
2021 - #15 - QB Mac Jones
2022 - #29 - OG Cole Strange
2023 - #17 - CB Christian Gonzalez

This list, just done by pick number:

(Bold is NFL actual or likely HOFer, Red is Pats' actual or likely HOFer, Italics is a guy who's had - at minimum, a successful NFL career)

2001 - #6 - DE/DT Richard Seymour
2008 - #10 - LB Jerod Mayo
2003 - #13 - DE Ty Warren
2021 - #15 - QB Mac Jones
2011 - #17 - OT Nate Solder

2023 - #17 - CB Christian Gonzalez
2002 - #21 - TE Daniel Graham
2004 - #21 - DT Vince Wilfork
2006 - #21 - RB Laurence Maroney
2012 - #21 - DE Chandler Jones
2018 - #23 - OT Isaiah Wynn
2007 - #24 - S Brandon Meriweather
2012 - #25 - LB Dont'a Hightower
2010 - #27 - DB Devin McCourty

2014 - #29 - DT Dominique Easley
2022 - #29 - OG Cole Strange
2005 - #31 - OG Logan Mankins
2018 - #31 - RB Sony Michel
2004 - #32 - TE Ben Watson
2015 - #32 - DT Malcom Brown

2019 - #32 - WR N'Keal Harry

Draw your own conclusions.

21 first round picks
- 2 NFL HOFers
- 5 Pats HOFers (or will be)
- 3 guys too young to tell yet (Mac, Strange, Gonzalez)
- 2 busts (Easley, Harry)

6 picks #1-19
- 1 NFL HOFer
- 2 Pats HOFer
- 4 at minimum solid NFL career
- 2 too early to tell (Mac, Gonzalez)
 
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Salva135

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There's a huge difference between picking a QB top 5 and likely getting one of the 2/3 best available, and picking at 15 and getting the 5th best QB on the board. As for the bolded, I already explained I don't have faith he'll develop the player properly. All I'm arguing is that I'm fairly confident that if Bill has a top 5 pick, he won't get the Zach Wilson/Trey Lance equivalent QB of his class at that spot.
Well then I don't see why he should be doing it.

(Gavel bang!)

Who else wants to make a case for BB in 2024?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Yup. Going back 22 years isn’t necessary, nor instructive. Past 5-6 years is the most relevant.
Why don't we cherry pick even more and just go last 3 seasons:

2021 - Mac Jones - He was the #5 QB coming out of that draft. NE desperately needed a QB. And he was the top QB available to them at #15. Lots of people wanted NE to trade up to get Trey Lance or Justin Fields - both of whom have had objectively worse (much worse) careers in the NFL than Mac Jones. Turns out that Mac isn't very good. Fair enough. But it absolutely was a "correct" pick at the time they drafted.

2022 - Cole Strange - For a lot of people, he was a reach. Solid player, people said, but one that could have been had later. Well, we don't know if he could have been had later. All we know is that they needed OL help, and he was widely considered to be a good player, so BB went with him. He had a solid rookie season but injuries have really made it tough for him. Not sure yet if it will turn out to be a good pick. Leaning towards "ehhh...maybe not" but time will tell.

2023 - Christian Gonzalez - Elite talent that they were able to get at #17. They actually traded down three spots from #14 and picked up #120 in the process, which they subsequently traded to move up to #112. So in that, they were able to get Gonzalez and the kicker they wanted (Ryland). Whether it was wise to take a kicker with #112 is questionable (I never think it's wise to get a kicker in the draft like that, but I think he's pretty good), but the point is that they got an extra asset while still getting an elite player in Gonzalez. Great pick.

So I'd say one A+ (Gonzalez), one B+ (Mac...probably a career backup or low-end starter but a very good and "correct" pick at the time), and one C+ (Strange). Just my grades, and y'alls can differ (and probably do).
 

8slim

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Why don't we cherry pick even more and just go last 3 seasons:

2021 - Mac Jones - He was the #5 QB coming out of that draft. NE desperately needed a QB. And he was the top QB available to them at #15. Lots of people wanted NE to trade up to get Trey Lance or Justin Fields - both of whom have had objectively worse (much worse) careers in the NFL than Mac Jones. Turns out that Mac isn't very good. Fair enough. But it absolutely was a "correct" pick at the time they drafted.

2022 - Cole Strange - For a lot of people, he was a reach. Solid player, people said, but one that could have been had later. Well, we don't know if he could have been had later. All we know is that they needed OL help, and he was widely considered to be a good player, so BB went with him. He had a solid rookie season but injuries have really made it tough for him. Not sure yet if it will turn out to be a good pick. Leaning towards "ehhh...maybe not" but time will tell.

2023 - Christian Gonzalez - Elite talent that they were able to get at #17. They actually traded down three spots from #14 and picked up #120 in the process, which they subsequently traded to move up to #112. So in that, they were able to get Gonzalez and the kicker they wanted (Ryland). Whether it was wise to take a kicker with #112 is questionable (I never think it's wise to get a kicker in the draft like that, but I think he's pretty good), but the point is that they got an extra asset while still getting an elite player in Gonzalez. Great pick.

So I'd say one A+ (Gonzalez), one B+ (Mac...probably a career backup or low-end starter but a very good and "correct" pick at the time), and one C+ (Strange). Just my grades, and y'alls can differ (and probably do).
My grades are all Incompletes. Although I think what you have for Mac and Strange are likely to be very generous when we have a better picture in a couple more years.

That being said, I'll disagree with your take on Mac being the "correct" pick. Sure, strictly speaking, given the circumstances they didn't have much other choice. But it also revealed that BB completely blew the Brady transition. It seemed clear that BB was eager to move on from Brady. And he did so with only a stiff like Stidham waiting in the wings. Which led to Cam. Which was a disaster. So picking a QB, *any* QB, was critical. Mac was there. I guess that makes it "correct", but not particularly savvy or representing a well-executed plan.

And that gets to the real issue: do we trust Bill to rebuild this dumpster fire of an offense through the draft and FA? The one he purposefully built to begin with.
 

Salva135

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If Mac is a B+ then I don't know what we're doing here in terms of evaluating BB anymore. Because I sure as shit would love a B+ QB right now.
 

BaseballJones

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Yes it's probably more fair to give them incomplete grades, because who knows if Gonzalez will ever stay healthy, etc. I don't want to re-litigate the Brady departure. I think there's enough there that Brady was itching to get out and perhaps that BB was happy to move on without him. I think both were ready for a change. I'd have loved for them to move directly to a better QB situation. I think JG was supposed to be that, but obviously they traded JG away.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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If Mac is a B+ then I don't know what we're doing here in terms of evaluating BB anymore.
You have to make judgments based on (a) "in the moment" what was the "correct" pick, and (b) how it all played out. Clearly with respect to Mac, (b) hasn't been kind to BB, but if you look at it from (a), it was the "correct" pick. And it's not like Mac has been abjectly terrible his whole career. His rookie year, he - and the Pats - were good. Legitimately good.
 

rodderick

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You have to make judgments based on (a) "in the moment" what was the "correct" pick, and (b) how it all played out. Clearly with respect to Mac, (b) hasn't been kind to BB, but if you look at it from (a), it was the "correct" pick. And it's not like Mac has been abjectly terrible his whole career. His rookie year, he - and the Pats - were good. Legitimately good.
Then Cole Strange is an F.
 

rodderick

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Bingo. It was a terrible pick. Many said so at the time.
If perception of the player and his fit for the team at the time of drafting carries weight in the evaluation (and I would argue it shouldn't, why should you gain or lose points as a GM based on what other people thought of your pick/your needs at the time?), Strange would need to perform like Zack Martin to be a success.
 

8slim

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If perception of the player and his fit for the team at the time of drafting carries weight in the evaluation (and I would argue it shouldn't, why should you gain or lose points as a GM based on what other people thought of your pick/your needs at the time?), Strange would need to perform like Zack Martin to be a success.
For sure. And has been discussed a bajillion times here, it was quite possible to pick either Strange himself, or someone with Strange's upside, in a later round. So we missed out on taking someone else who could have helped.
 

lexrageorge

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My grades are all Incompletes. Although I think what you have for Mac and Strange are likely to be very generous when we have a better picture in a couple more years.

That being said, I'll disagree with your take on Mac being the "correct" pick. Sure, strictly speaking, given the circumstances they didn't have much other choice. But it also revealed that BB completely blew the Brady transition. It seemed clear that BB was eager to move on from Brady. And he did so with only a stiff like Stidham waiting in the wings. Which led to Cam. Which was a disaster. So picking a QB, *any* QB, was critical. Mac was there. I guess that makes it "correct", but not particularly savvy or representing a well-executed plan.

And that gets to the real issue: do we trust Bill to rebuild this dumpster fire of an offense through the draft and FA? The one he purposefully built to begin with.
I don't think there is a way for a team to "plan" a transition from a QB like Brady. Especially when the organization from the Krafts on down went all in on the 2018 and 2019 seasons in a way that was guaranteed to put the team in salary cap jail in 2020 (which was a meaningless season anyway).

The options for the Pats once they had the 15th pick were to either (a) draft Mac; (b) trade draft capital to draft Fields, which would put the team in even worse position; or (c) draft a different position (either at 15 or via trading back). Mac certainly had some things going for him when he was drafted; he likely would have been a first round QB in nearly any other year as well. There were questions about this arm strength, but he was hardly an outlier in that category, and it is an area that some QBs improve upon when they get into the NFL.

In retrospect, option (c) would have been the better option, but that is assuming things to be known that were not known at the time.
 

Salva135

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The biggest problem to me with giving BB a top 5 pick is that it means he's coming off the worst year of his coaching career, an absolute disaster, and I don't know who he's picking for - the team, his wins record, his kids, etc. I don't know where his mind is at if he's sitting at 72 years old with this decision all to himself. I don't like it one bit.
 

astrozombie

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I conclude that things got a lot worse after 2012.
This. BB used to draft pretty well, both in the early rounds and uncovering contributors in the later rounds. But the last 10 or so years have been really dicey and occasionally outright bad - hence why I would like to see someone other than BB do the drafting. And since I doubt BB is going to give that up, I am okay with losing BB the coach too.
 

8slim

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I don't think there is a way for a team to "plan" a transition from a QB like Brady. Especially when the organization from the Krafts on down went all in on the 2018 and 2019 seasons in a way that was guaranteed to put the team in salary cap jail in 2020 (which was a meaningless season anyway).

The options for the Pats once they had the 15th pick were to either (a) draft Mac; (b) trade draft capital to draft Fields, which would put the team in even worse position; or (c) draft a different position (either at 15 or via trading back). Mac certainly had some things going for him when he was drafted; he likely would have been a first round QB in nearly any other year as well. There were questions about this arm strength, but he was hardly an outlier in that category, and it is an area that some QBs improve upon when they get into the NFL.

In retrospect, option (c) would have been the better option, but that is assuming things to be known that were not known at the time.
The bolded is probably fair. At the same time, they had NO plan. Like, it sure seems that Stidham was going to start in 2020 had Cam's free agency not been such an epic fail and he had literally no other options.

But whatever, it's water under the bridge. Again, the real issue is BB charting the course of this offense going forward. Seems like a bad idea to me.
 

BaseballJones

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Then Cole Strange is an F.
Well...was it? We don't know what other teams have on their board. We heard at the time from some people that it was a reach, but from the Patriots (if I recall...though my recollection may not be accurate) we heard that other teams had interest in Strange and that he may not have been available when they picked next, so if they liked him, THAT was the time to get him.

But I'd agree that in the moment I was a bit perplexed and so would give that piece of it a lower grade, but he did fill a need and he's a fairly decent player (when healthy...or at least he was pretty solid last year).
 

rodderick

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Well...was it? We don't know what other teams have on their board. We heard at the time from some people that it was a reach, but from the Patriots (if I recall...though my recollection may not be accurate) we heard that other teams had interest in Strange and that he may not have been available when they picked next, so if they liked him, THAT was the time to get him.

But I'd agree that in the moment I was a bit perplexed and so would give that piece of it a lower grade, but he did fill a need and he's a fairly decent player (when healthy...or at least he was pretty solid last year).
Which was in itself a bad move considering they shouldn't have liked him at that spot. He's performed at the level of an average at best guard when healthy, and he's been injured. You can find average at best guards anywhere in day 3 of the draft.
 

Cellar-Door

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The problem with small sample draft records is that draft records swing wildly. Everyone has ups and downs, and a down year or even a stretch of down years isn't particularly predictive.
 

BaseballJones

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Which was in itself a bad move considering they shouldn't have liked him at that spot. He's performed at the level of an average at best guard when healthy, and he's been injured. You can find average at best guards anywhere in day 3 of the draft.
I personally wouldn't draft guards high in the draft for the reason you state. But then again, I'm some knucklehead fan, not a GM making millions of dollars building (mostly successful) NFL rosters.
 

tims4wins

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I don't think there is a way for a team to "plan" a transition from a QB like Brady. Especially when the organization from the Krafts on down went all in on the 2018 and 2019 seasons in a way that was guaranteed to put the team in salary cap jail in 2020 (which was a meaningless season anyway).

The options for the Pats once they had the 15th pick were to either (a) draft Mac; (b) trade draft capital to draft Fields, which would put the team in even worse position; or (c) draft a different position (either at 15 or via trading back). Mac certainly had some things going for him when he was drafted; he likely would have been a first round QB in nearly any other year as well. There were questions about this arm strength, but he was hardly an outlier in that category, and it is an area that some QBs improve upon when they get into the NFL.

In retrospect, option (c) would have been the better option, but that is assuming things to be known that were not known at the time.
There is an alternative to option c, which could have been to trade draft capital to move up and draft Parsons. Hard to say if there was any possibility of that, but I doubt anyone would be mad today if they had made that kind of move.
 

tims4wins

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The Strange pick was somewhat similar to the Mankins pick. If he becomes a HOF player, sure, it's a great pick. It doesn't seem like Strange will get a 2nd contract in NE, so it's looking like a horrible pick.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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There is an alternative to option c, which could have been to trade draft capital to move up and draft Parsons. Hard to say if there was any possibility of that, but I doubt anyone would be mad today if they had made that kind of move.
Then they're still without a QB - and maybe (likely) have someone even worse than Mac.
 

tims4wins

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Then they're still without a QB - and maybe (likely) have someone even worse than Mac.
So? At least they'd have a long term All Pro type of piece to build around. It's not like they've won anything of significance with Mac.

If the argument is they HAD to draft Mac due to need... well, that's on BB too.
 

sezwho

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I personally wouldn't draft guards high in the draft for the reason you state. But then again, I'm some knucklehead fan, not a GM making millions of dollars building (mostly successful) NFL rosters.
I feel this gets said a lot but I’m not sure it makes sense (sorry not picking on you BJ, love your posts), just want to fact check a bit.

Cole Strange was the 3rd guard drafted in ‘22. The problem isn’t necessarily drafting the guard, as immobile pocket QBs need to keep their pocket clean up the middle, it’s that Strange hasn’t been good or healthy.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I didn't and still don't have an issue with the Mac pick given the circumstances at the time. BB's failure IMO is not putting anything remotely resembling even an average NFL caliber offense around him. The line sucks, the receivers suck, they have an OK TE (who can't block) and a guy who looked like a very good NFL running back in Rham who, for whatever reason has also regressed, and maybe Douglas is going to be a player. Mac is not good and seems to be more part of the problem than part of the solution, but the offense is so fucking bad it is hard to know whether Mac might even be able to be a game manager type QB.

One of the advantages of having a QB on a rookie contract is you are supposed to be able to assemble a loaded roster around him, they've completely blown that. They've whiffed on skill players in the draft and don't seem to have accepted that guys like Hill or Diggs cost draft capital and money to acquire. If they can't manage to draft a game changing receiver, they are going to have to pay for one and BB still looks like he's trying to assemble a roster on offense that Brady could elevate, as opposed to a roster to help elevate a below average QB.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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I didn't and still don't have an issue with the Mac pick given the circumstances at the time. BB's failure IMO is not putting anything remotely resembling even an average NFL caliber offense around him. The line sucks, the receivers suck, they have an OK TE (who can't block) and a guy who looked like a very good NFL running back in Rham who, for whatever reason has also regressed, and maybe Douglas is going to be a player. Mac is not good and seems to be more part of the problem than part of the solution, but the offense is so fucking bad it is hard to know whether Mac might even be able to be a game manager type QB.

One of the advantages of having a QB on a rookie contract is you are supposed to be able to assemble a loaded roster around him, they've completely blown that. They've whiffed on skill players in the draft and don't seem to have accepted that guys like Hill or Diggs cost draft capital and money to acquire. If they can't manage to draft a game changing receiver, they are going to have to pay for one and BB still looks like he's trying to assemble a roster on offense that Brady could elevate, as opposed to a roster to help elevate a below average QB.
I agree with all this. I still think the Mac pick - given the circumstances - was good. But holy crap yeah, the fact that Mac is CHEAP means they should have been able to build a very high level roster around him, and they have failed in that.
 

8slim

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Nov 6, 2001
25,051
Unreal America
The Strange pick was somewhat similar to the Mankins pick. If he becomes a HOF player, sure, it's a great pick. It doesn't seem like Strange will get a 2nd contract in NE, so it's looking like a horrible pick.
The difference, to me, is that anyone Bill drafted between, say, 2004 and 2018, was picked under a completely different franchise dynamic than what has been since the 2020 draft.

It's one thing to take a flier on someone a little earlier than other teams have on their boards when he's joining a loaded team with Super Bowl aspirations regardless of his presence. It's quite another to do that when the team has holes all over the damn place and is battling to get to .500.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,572
Boston
I agree with all this. I still think the Mac pick - given the circumstances - was good. But holy crap yeah, the fact that Mac is CHEAP means they should have been able to build a very high level roster around him, and they have failed in that.
So why should BB be allowed to pick the next cheap guy?
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,983
Hingham, MA
The difference, to me, is that anyone Bill drafted between, say, 2004 and 2018, was picked under a completely different franchise dynamic than what has been since the 2020 draft.

It's one thing to take a flier on someone a little earlier than other teams have on their boards when he's joining a loaded team with Super Bowl aspirations regardless of his presence. It's quite another to do that when the team has holes all over the damn place and is battling to get to .500.
Oh yeah totally agree, but again, if Strange is a HOF player it's fine. I still wouldn't love the pick given everything you said, but it wouldn't be some glaring error.

That being said, I think too often BB has made these types of picks without accounting for how total roster building takes place, and the contract value of first round picks, etc.

You can even say this about a guy like Dugger. He turned out to be a good player. But he was an old rookie, and now will likely be on a different team in 2024. Safeties just don't have that surplus value.
 

Silverdude2167

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2006
4,734
Amstredam
The difference, to me, is that anyone Bill drafted between, say, 2004 and 2018, was picked under a completely different franchise dynamic than what has been since the 2020 draft.

It's one thing to take a flier on someone a little earlier than other teams have on their boards when he's joining a loaded team with Super Bowl aspirations regardless of his presence. It's quite another to do that when the team has holes all over the damn place and is battling to get to .500.
With an average QB on this team, they are 6-2.
Can we stop with the holes all over the place and if we throw out all the good years BB's drafts are crap.

They beat a Miami team yesterday with an average QB, and yet all people keep saying is how much talent Miami has.
 
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