This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots
- Thread starter DennyDoyle'sBoil
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Thanks. Good pull. It would have sucked to have shown that against the Chiefs given how badly they beat us in that game.
I‘m always amazed that all Pats fans haven’t watched all the “Do Your Jobs” and “Three Games to Glory” over and over again to the point where you can almost recite the narration. Then again maybe I need to get a life.
And all the NFL films' "Mic'd Up" of those games. And "Turning Point". That too.
Yup. Love America’s Game. The ones from the first three Super Bowls are so good. Might have to fire one up tonight after my wife falls asleep on the couch.
I mean, it's going to be a game with implications for at least 1 possibly 2 key playoff races.
I'm baffled by people making it out like this is a big deal. It's week 15, they always swap out games with lower (or no) playoff implications for ones with high ones.
Shalise Manza Young was on All Things Considered talking about how the Belichek era is coming to a close: View: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/30/1216222976/the-end-of-an-era-with-tom-brady-gone-some-patriots-fans-want-belichick-out-too
I tuned in a minute or so late and was like "whoa did he get fired?"
I tuned in a minute or so late and was like "whoa did he get fired?"
That might have won either of the last two games. But Mac couldn't even do that. Just really highlights that there is no downside to making a move at this point; things technically can get worse, but they can't functionally get worse. Mac has been giving them zero chance to win.
I was going to let this rest but fine.
If all they want is to win a single game 13-10 or 9-7 then they could make a gameplan that was all screens, runs and no-risk passes and play like Zappe did in the second half for the whole game. Either guy could do that and turn out a few field goals -- Mac had them in FG range twice in six drives and Zappe had them in FG range twice in five drives. Yeah yeah mac threw in INT there but if the gameplan was "DON'T DO ANYTHING TO TURN THE BALL OVER" maybe they just run the ball once they're in FG range. But you're almost never going to win a game like that, especially against a team that isn't the Giants, so of course they didn't start out with that plan.
Of course they both suck now and I'm fine moving on from Mac but the downside is that they give Zappe an extremely conservative gameplan with no throws past 5 yards (like he did last game), they run the ball fairly well and eke out a 12-10 win because the defense plays well, and then he gets way more credit than he deserves and they get a worse draft pick, and then if you let Zappe air it out later he shits all over himself just like Mac would have. People are already giving Zappe way too much credit for five drives where he was very slightly better than Mac.
If you're going to do that, why not just have Mac do it and maybe you can get some of his confidence back and fool a team into thinking he's worth trading a 4th rounder for. Maybe they tried to do that and Mac doesn't listen, which, fine.
What is most likely is Zappe is going to play super conservative but the Chargers are going to score more than 7 points in the first three quarters so he'll be forced to throw the ball downfield and he'll turn the ball over doing so just like Mac would have. But hey at least we gave them a different look.
With Mac right now the team probably thinks they've lost before kickoff. At least with Zappe there's an unknown because he hasn't started yet. That could all change this week, but I think this move is as much about the other 51 guys as it is Mac or Zappe. Both guys look broken and not up to the job.
I heard Andy Hart from WEEI on this morning and when he was doing his pick for Sunday's game he also said that he isn't picking them to win any games for the rest of the year. Pretty stunning fall for the Pats...Hart is a pretty even-keeled reporter and for him to be this categorical is noteworthy. Bad teams can sometimes beat less bad teams but the Pats are like bad BAD.
I never, ever, ever thought a Belichick team could have the kind of season I saw under Rod Rust and Dick MacPherson. Both of those teams (1990, 1992) were putrid. This year's defense alone should let us white-knuckle our way to ~5 wins. Not even being able to do that shows how seriously broken things are.
I fully expected this honestly, just sooner after Brady left, what I didn't expect was Mac to suck so bad that the slip is now instead of prior to Mac arrival. It's a QB league, if you don't have a great QB in todays NFL you might as well win 2 games and get one vs winning 6-8 games and be stuck in mediocrity.
I hope they don't win another game and get the QB of the future. A few more wins this season does ABSOLUTLEY nothing for the 2024 Patriots at least not talent wise, if the players quit on the coach and/or can't see this as a rebuild year after the complete collapse of the QB's then that's a different narrative and one I'm confident BB can handle.
He's done too much for this franchise, I'm absolutely in the give him 3-4 more years club. I think the 25-26 Patriots win 11-12 games and all this BS is history. It will be fun to look back and see this year in context and see how many fans stuck with the franchise and don't quit because they aren't winning the superbowl every other year for a decade.
I think they did try to do that. Per Taylor Kyles, "Of the quarterback’s 22 dropbacks, all but five fell in the bucket of play-action, screen, quick game, RPO, and/or screen" - and he still had four turnover-worthy plays!
I agree that is most likely! I don't have a lot of optimism around Zappe and I don't think anyone should. But the level of performance from Mac is so poor, I don't think you can keep doing this. They've given him chance after chance and he keeps getting worse. And against terrible defenses, too. It's time to move on. And if Zappe is just as bad after a couple games, give Cunningham a shot. Or Grier. But we are in "definition of insanity" territory with Mac.
Sure, anything is possible. But that means they'd go 3-3 down the stretch. For a team that held the Giants to 10 and lost, hard to see where those 3 wins come from.
Teams can be streaky. If we click, we could click and roll a few off. Teams ebb and flow. Patriots have had a couple of games that could have gone the other way -- they haven't been completely dominated. So, who knows?
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I know that's the sentiment of most folks here. Obviously it's a QB league, and many of the best QBs right now were high picks. But there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. Mahomes went 10th and DeShaun Watson went 12th in the same draft. The year before that Dak went in the 4th round. The year after Lamar went with the 32nd pick.
I think we've examined the data and there are as many big misses as hits when a QB gets taken in the top 5 picks.
Look, I've resigned myself to the Pats losing out and getting a top 3 pick. If they can nab Maye then I want them to do it. I'm also sure that some QB is gonna go 10th or 14th and turn into a good starter.
Give me a QB who can get a team to 10-11 wins and I'll take my chances. There's been no shortage of teams that have made a Super Bowl with that kind of record.
The performance of the defense as of late actually makes me feel a LOT more optimistic that the next guy who comes in to rebuild the offense from the ground up, starting with a top 3 pick, has a good chance of turning this thing around fairly quickly.
Yeah because the coach coaching that defense is totally not the best in the history of the game and will be easily replaced....
All the last three games have shown is that give this team an average QB and they are in the playoff hunt and above the Bills...
People calling for BB's head are insane.
Hence the QB part.
Do you think an average QB scores more than 12 points a game? All a sudden the Pats are 5-7.
Does an average QB beat the Washington Football Team? 6-6.
Does an average QB beat the Raiders? 7-5.
So again, this team is fighting for a playoff spot if Mac does not suck and unless you wanted the Pats to move on from Mac before the season, maybe stop calling for BB's head.
I dont know how anyone can watch today’s game and think it’s all on the QB. We’re deficient at every single spot offensively aside from bruising RB.
So you think an average QB doesn't win the last three games? Or beat the Raiders or WFT? Because again, that is a playoff team in the playoff hunt or are we now moving the goalposts?
I think the fact that pats aren’t flirting with .500 and/or a playoff birth is all/almost all on the qb. The fact that the pats aren’t an actual contender is because of the deficiency in the other areas. At least from my pov
Bill is the one making personnel decisions which have been atrocious on offense for years, even before Brady left, he has to go.
Yes, I do. Game’s don’t work that way. You can’t just say “We were close, a different guy wins it”. Things would have played out completely differently. We’d literally have different guys on the roster if we had a different QB.
That's the problem. It's not just the scheme, the blocking, the talent evaluation, or the players. It's everything. They are bad at everything on offense.
You don’t get to 2-10 with the fifth worst point differential just because the QB is bad. Plenty of teams have bad QBs. The whole offensive philosophy is a train wreck.
Word. An average QB does what when sacked five times (8 TFL) behind a running game that gets 109 yards on 31 carries (minus the Thornton play) against what was the 8th worst scoring defense and a 4-7 team. At home.
This game is definitive proof that the offense is broken, just like the last few were. But we can't blame Mac for this one.
Did it? Change the Mac to QB...
Also are we just going to ignore that the two best WR's are hurt, or is that now BB's fault as well.
Lol, yes you do.
Again, they beat the Chargers, Giants, Colts, Raiders, WFT with average QB play...
This is a futile exercise. We have no idea how those games go if the Patriots score more points. Do you think the Chargers would have had this exact same approach and scored the same 6 points had the Pats scored 17 today? It's meaningless.
If BB is really gone, I will miss his being a complete asshole at the post-game press conferences.
how conservative are other teams game plans against us knowing how bad the offense is? I do wonder if pats could score in the 20s if the opponents approach the game differently?
NFL football is a dangerous game. Guys are hurt all over the league. Bill’s inability to have a room full of receivers who are capable (don’t have to be superstars) is 100% on him. So, yeah.
Nobody in the NFL ever gets hurt. That's a good point.
By the way, the Patriots lost their best two defensive players two months ago and the defense is still incredible. Your argument is weak.
Mac didn’t play and they still looked like complete ass and didn’t score a single point. Did you watch the game? The whole offense fucking sucks.
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