This year's ESPN hit piece
- Thread starter Dr. Gonzo
- Start date
This makes some sense. I can picture LaRussa being close enough to BB (and something of a peer) that he's heard him vent about stuff that BB is too professional to do in the office. Someone wanting to stick up for his friend. LaRussa could also be the kind of source maybe familiar with a lot of Patriot business in general, but far enough away to get little details wrong.
I don't think BB would authorize such disclosures. I wonder if they are still friends.
Mike ReissVerified account @MikeReiss 1m1 minute ago
Bill Belichick says on @DaleHolleyWEEI the last time he saw Roger Goodell was prior to Raiders game in Mexico City.
Mike ReissVerified account @MikeReiss 17s18 seconds ago
Asked if he saw Roger Goodell last week, Bill Belichick says, “That is absolutely not true.”
Bill Belichick says on @DaleHolleyWEEI the last time he saw Roger Goodell was prior to Raiders game in Mexico City.
Mike ReissVerified account @MikeReiss 17s18 seconds ago
Asked if he saw Roger Goodell last week, Bill Belichick says, “That is absolutely not true.”
This doesn't jibe with Wickersham's list of sources:
Does LaRussa fit in one of these characterizations?
You could be right. It is probably foolish to categorically exclude possibilities in a circumstance like this.
On the other hand, if BB teed this up to fire a shot across Kraft's bow, he probably would not be offering such adamant assurances regarding next year. If I did this for this purpose, I'd let Kraft stew.
This probably is not worth the ink it is getting. There is something here, probably many things here, unless one is prepared to dismiss Tom Curran, which I would not do for a second. Because the article does not make anyone look particularly bad -- and because it is laughable that the article could hurt the Pats' playoff run, or that ESPN published it for that purpose -- this basically boils down to a story of how sloppy the journalism was. Which is interesting but not earth shattering.
PK this morning
• The Patriots haven’t been as angry about anything since the Tom Brady deflated footballs scandal. Apoplectic might be a better word.
• I have never heard Robert Kraft more strident about anything—and that includes Spygate and Deflategate—than he was on the phone with me about the accusation that he mandated that Garoppolo be traded in a meeting with Belichick before the October trade deadline. As I wrote Saturday, Kraft said such an in-season meeting never happened. Garoppolo was dealt to San Francisco for a second-round pick on Oct. 30. Kraft’s voice rose, his ire clear sentence after sentence, as he insisted he did not tell Belichick to make the trade. I have known Kraft since soon after he bought the team in 1994, and the one thing that sets him off is someone questioning his word. That’s why this set him off.
• Bill Belichick drawing a line in the sand, as both the Boston Globe and ESPN reported, about Guerrero has actually been a good thing for the organization. Before, there was a hazy line about Guerrero’s role with the team inside the building and on the sidelines. I can’t think of any coaches who would then restrict the access of the man who is closest to a five-time Super Bowl quarterback and possibly the best quarterback in history. But Belichick did. Now players other than Brady can be treated by Guerrero, but only independently, at the facility adjacent to Gillette Stadium that Guerrero operates.
• I think Belichick coaches the team in 2018. Beyond that? We’re reaching the end of this great era. I just don’t know exactly when it’ll end. Kraft had some adamant words for me when I asked if there’s any way he’d consider trading Belichick. Basically, the answer was no, or maybe NO NO NO.
• I doubt this is the end, as I say. But think of what has transpired over 18 years if it is: five Super Bowl wins (perhaps a sixth in the next month), and a run of greatness that includes a league record 12 regular-season wins or more in each of the past seven seasons. Think about it. Eighteen years. Vince Lombardi, Bart Starr and the publicly owned Packers lasted nine years together. Chuck Noll, Terry Bradshaw and the Rooney family lasted a far rockier 13 together. Bill Walsh, Joe Montana and Eddie DeBartolo lasted 10.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/08/nfl-playoffs-wild-card-divisional-round-preview-drew-brees-mmqb-peter-king
• The Patriots haven’t been as angry about anything since the Tom Brady deflated footballs scandal. Apoplectic might be a better word.
• I have never heard Robert Kraft more strident about anything—and that includes Spygate and Deflategate—than he was on the phone with me about the accusation that he mandated that Garoppolo be traded in a meeting with Belichick before the October trade deadline. As I wrote Saturday, Kraft said such an in-season meeting never happened. Garoppolo was dealt to San Francisco for a second-round pick on Oct. 30. Kraft’s voice rose, his ire clear sentence after sentence, as he insisted he did not tell Belichick to make the trade. I have known Kraft since soon after he bought the team in 1994, and the one thing that sets him off is someone questioning his word. That’s why this set him off.
• Bill Belichick drawing a line in the sand, as both the Boston Globe and ESPN reported, about Guerrero has actually been a good thing for the organization. Before, there was a hazy line about Guerrero’s role with the team inside the building and on the sidelines. I can’t think of any coaches who would then restrict the access of the man who is closest to a five-time Super Bowl quarterback and possibly the best quarterback in history. But Belichick did. Now players other than Brady can be treated by Guerrero, but only independently, at the facility adjacent to Gillette Stadium that Guerrero operates.
• I think Belichick coaches the team in 2018. Beyond that? We’re reaching the end of this great era. I just don’t know exactly when it’ll end. Kraft had some adamant words for me when I asked if there’s any way he’d consider trading Belichick. Basically, the answer was no, or maybe NO NO NO.
• I doubt this is the end, as I say. But think of what has transpired over 18 years if it is: five Super Bowl wins (perhaps a sixth in the next month), and a run of greatness that includes a league record 12 regular-season wins or more in each of the past seven seasons. Think about it. Eighteen years. Vince Lombardi, Bart Starr and the publicly owned Packers lasted nine years together. Chuck Noll, Terry Bradshaw and the Rooney family lasted a far rockier 13 together. Bill Walsh, Joe Montana and Eddie DeBartolo lasted 10.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/08/nfl-playoffs-wild-card-divisional-round-preview-drew-brees-mmqb-peter-king
Not trying to be dismissive here - but BB is a guy that probably made certain assurances to Leon Hess as well.
Before or after Parcells pulled his maneuver?
I'm going to be very surprised if BB steps down before the 2018 season barring illness.
Mike ReissVerified account @MikeReiss 1m1 minute ago
Asked if Robert Kraft has ever told him to make a trade he didn’t want to make, Bill Belichick said on @DaleHolleyWEEI, “We’ve never done that. We talk about things organizationally and make organizational decisions.”
Asked if Robert Kraft has ever told him to make a trade he didn’t want to make, Bill Belichick said on @DaleHolleyWEEI, “We’ve never done that. We talk about things organizationally and make organizational decisions.”
I'm not sure where you would conclude this. Lots of staffers talk amongst themselves in any organization, and rumors can grow legs. We cannot really tell which parts of the article contain information direct from sources, and which aspects are the reporter trying to "fill the gaps". Belichick is smart enough to know that if he leaked details of a meeting he had with the owners, the Krafts would use the bully pulpit to deny.
Seth Wickersham: "Yeah, well, that's what I was told."
Glad someone else is on record though. lol
Ditto on the supposed meeting with Goodell.
I love how Kraft, TB12, and BB all now have direct quotes on this, and yet Wickersham was unable to get a single quote from them in his piece.
Of course --- but if you don't think it's possible that BB would / could stick his middle-finger up to any individual on this earth, you haven't been paying attention the last 20 years.
IMO - he is the greatest coach in the history of American Professional Sports....but as a person, he's not exactly been stellar.
It seems to be there's quite a difference between quitting a job 24 hours after taking it and then finding out there would be a huge "yes, but..." attached to the job that would never go away. And leaking an article about a disagreement over a trade as a way to shoot oneself out of town.
So what?!
Let the Krafts deny it. They'd have no choice.
But they wouldn't dare "act" against the Belichick Camp....he and they are too powerful in this organization.
Here's a question I want to ask everybody / anybody about one of the larger points in the article (namely tension between TB and BB) for those that think this writer is full of shit:
Reportedly - Guerrero (TB12’s guru) was previously allowed on the sidelines, invited on team flights, and housed in an office within Gillette?
If so, why did any / all of that change? What are theories if the writer made this stuff up?
Reportedly - Guerrero (TB12’s guru) was previously allowed on the sidelines, invited on team flights, and housed in an office within Gillette?
If so, why did any / all of that change? What are theories if the writer made this stuff up?
You forgot to call him a liar and a cheater or are you just implying that?
Outside of his responses to reporters asking him stupid questions, do you have any examples of when he has done that to coaches, players, execs, owners? RG is the only one that I can think of.
Not to speak for others, but I think we all acknowledge that the Guerrero situation probably has some truth to it, and there is some tension there. It's most of the other garbage in the article that everyone is disputing.
And you think the Krafts would fire / strong-arm BB out of town?!!!
Talk about suicide.
He'd go to another place and win....and Kraft (and his family) would be a laughingstock for the remaining time of their ownership.
You don't think that Brady had some reservations about his status on the 2018 roster when JG was not traded last offseason? Not taking into account salary cap stuff, it is very possible to think Brady was legitimately nervous about getting traded.
Brady has always openly talked about the possibility of not ending his career in New England, so yes, absolutely, I am sure it crossed his mind. But I can't buy that he brought this up to Kraft, who then mandated to BB that he had to trade JG. It's a bridge too far IMO.
Edit: also, that would be an issue for the offseason, anyway. I don't see why the Pats would have to act on it RIGHT NOW. I can't see how JG's presence would affect TB12's performance for the second half of the 2017 season.
What other garbage?
You don't think it's possible that TB didn't want Jimmy G to be treated by Guerrero?
You don't think TB felt threatened by Jimmy G (just as Bledsoe felt that same toward TB 15 years ago)?
You don't think it's possible that Brady went over BB's head to Kraft to analyze his status / try to control any part of the situation that he could?
Come on --- this is Organizational Behavior 101.
The Guerrero stuff was well known about a month prior to the ESPN article. So the reporter did not report anything new there.
The Krafts are owners. Last I checked, Belichick did not have an ownership stake in the team. Robert Kraft will be remembered as the owner of the team that won 5 Super Bowls and 8 AFC Championships. I think his legacy is secure enough that he would not be a laughingstock except among the low information folks.
The JG not being treated by Guerrero has already been debunked.
See my response to redoctober about TB / JG.
So you think the timing of the trade (and the return for JG) was ideal and made perfect sense?
No, I think they should have traded him before the draft. I think they screwed that up.
Sure.
I wish Stacey James all the luck in the world with that narrative after a BB-firing (that you alluded to).
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Really? Belichick and Cesario just went and "screwed it up" huh?
No plan?
Ooops....it's the trading deadline - we have to get rid of JG.
Quick Nick....get on the phone with Shanahan.
I can understand why they didn't trade him at the draft. They probably thought they had a legitimate chance to sign him to a bridge deal. They may have wanted insurance for Brady, either due to injury or performance. I mean that in retrospect, clearly, they should have traded him before the draft. But I can understand why they didn't.
Then once he was on the team - of course they were going to keep him until the trade deadline.
As for why not waiting until this coming offseason, that has been detailed in terms of why they couldn't tag him and trade him. It was their last shot to trade him.
I think they knew they couldn't sign him to a bridge deal because Jimmy had made it known he wanted playing time assurances and they weren't ready to move on from Brady yet. Bedard said that BB's intentions were to tag JG and trade him. Then, he gets traded in October. Something had to change his mind. I'm not sure what it is but all of a sudden he was gone.
This aspect has been covered by numerous posts on here.
Pats wanted to keep JG for 2017 in case something happened to their 40 y/o QB. Said 40 y/o QB goes out and has MVP-quality season, said backup makes it clear he ain't staying, and BB realizes that getting something for JG now is better than getting far less later.
But, sure, keep trolling....
Hannity’s doing sports now?
At this point you are calling Kraft, Brady, and Belichick liars. Stop and reflect on that one for a moment.
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The one thing that makes me absolutely, positively 100% certain that Belichick was not a source is that it was a story from ESPN. Now if it came from the Annapolis Times or whatever, maybe.
Yes, and remember the Pats were predicted by many to go 16-0. If Brady had proved to be over the hill early in the season, JG would be there to step in. I think BB maybe thought they could still win a Super Bowl with JG, but maybe not so much with a rookie or Dan Orlovsky or someone like that.
Some explanations:
a.) BB decided that the D was going to be a tire fire in 2018 if he didn't have enough cap space to try to fix it for next year.
b.) Don Yee made a threat that JG may not sign his franchise tender unless he is traded.
c.) Kraft pushed back a bit on budgeting that much money for an insurance policy.
d.) All of the above.
I don't necessarily think this proves it was a hit piece per se. It does prove that he was certainly aware of how it would be perceived. Anyhow, you quoting that (it was a pull from SW's interview with Toucher & Rich on Friday) made me re-listen to the interview and something stood out to me. I'm not sure it proves or disproves anything but here is his (mostly) direct quote when asked about why he chose to wrote this story now.
SW: I had just finished a cover story on Brady and Garoppolo for ESPN magazine for early November. Then Jimmy was traded and i was floored as it ran counter to everything i had been told when writing the ESPN mag story.
So, Seth had been around the building pre-trade and put together a story that was apparently "positive" re the relationship between Brady and Jimmy G so much so that the fact that he was traded shocked him.
He then found "sources" who presented a completely contradictory story from what he had already put together.
Something doesn't seem to add up
I do not believe Bedard to be accurate, because the risk of tagging Jimmy for 25 million is way too high. The idea that Cleveland or anyone else would have beaten San Fran’s offer at that point seems ludicrous. The fourth pick in the draft for a huge one year flier on a QB with 6 quarters of experience? I don’t think so. Plus the team loses a ton of cap space for free agency without a quick deal. It never made sense.
He is smarter than that.
The way you handle something like this is privately, with Kraft. You lay down a couple of markers:
1. Unless I get my way on Guerrero 100%, I am out of here. That one is easy, and may not even be necessary, as B.B. seems to have gotten his way.
2. I hear you on TB, and that is your prerogative as owner with a player of this stature. I get carte Blanche on obtaining and grooming his successor. (Again, I anticipate no problem). Further, the day it becomes clear to me that TB is the second best QB on this roster, the best one starts. It’s your prerogative to sacrifice the future, but I am not sacrificing performance based on the roster at hand. And if we do not see eye to eye on that, I am out of here at that season’s end.
3. Everything else we do as we have done for 18 years.
It’s not that hard.
I'm not going to post it again as it's in the I wanted to keep Jimmy thread, but the Michael Hurley article is pretty instructive on this. Go back in time to when Jimmy was traded and compare stats and what was known about him with what was known about Matt Cassel and his stats at the time he was traded.
People are using a lot of hindsight on this Jimmy deal as to what could be gotten for a player with only a couple games on his resume.
and if people haven't read the article. Go read it.
I don't see how they would have thought they could tag him without cutting a ton of guys. It just doesn't make sense.
Trollin brought it up saying they could cut Cooks which is fucking ludicrous considering they dealt a 1st round pick for him.
Right, I don't want to rehash that. I've seen it where they cut Cooks, Solder, let Butler and Lewis and Burkhead walk, etc. There's no way that was "the plan". Let's not go down that road.
And you're suspending any discernment and taking every publicly-uttered syllable by them as truth....you can reflect on that.
No problem --- unless he already found the successor.....and invested 4 seasons to plan and prepare for a duration that was post-TB.
A duration that was going to show everyone that they could (still) win without Brady.