So call it 6 weeks - roughly May 9. He would likely miss a round or two of the playoffs, maybe be able to come back for the ECF.
Timelord Injury Watch
- Thread starter bsj
- Start date
JFC...can't we ever have a playoff run at full strength. Theis trade ended up being huge - play him big minutes the rest of the regular season and bubble wrap Al.
This is what we'll be missing.
"In the NBA this season, Williams is No. 1 among 169 players who've defended 500-plus shots as the closest defender, per Second Spectrum tracking. Only Williams has held opponents under 40% shooting."
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33615782/sources-boston-celtics-center-robert-williams-torn-meniscus-least-several-weeks
"In the NBA this season, Williams is No. 1 among 169 players who've defended 500-plus shots as the closest defender, per Second Spectrum tracking. Only Williams has held opponents under 40% shooting."
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33615782/sources-boston-celtics-center-robert-williams-torn-meniscus-least-several-weeks
The Theis acquisition is very helpful. Groot may even have to get into the act as a body.... Damn
There is no one like TimeLord, but Brad should turn over a lot of stones and try to find a defense-first athletic/springy BIG this winter to limit TLs mileage going forward. Mitch Robinson (probably too expensive), Claxton are the first ones to come to mind. Maybe a Bruno or Moses Brown returns would offer something better then Kornet.
A bigger trade would be Christian Wood who is also worth kicking the tires on.
TimeLord going down, with a season ending injury, will always be a concern for the next 5 seasons. A lot of the Celtics defensive principals are built around a mobile, shot blocking BIG playing Free Safety
There is no one like TimeLord, but Brad should turn over a lot of stones and try to find a defense-first athletic/springy BIG this winter to limit TLs mileage going forward. Mitch Robinson (probably too expensive), Claxton are the first ones to come to mind. Maybe a Bruno or Moses Brown returns would offer something better then Kornet.
A bigger trade would be Christian Wood who is also worth kicking the tires on.
TimeLord going down, with a season ending injury, will always be a concern for the next 5 seasons. A lot of the Celtics defensive principals are built around a mobile, shot blocking BIG playing Free Safety
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Alrighty then, this is why you people keep me on the payroll around here…
if it is a fixable tear then they will fix it and for that the recovery is about as long as an ACL rehab – he would certainly be out for the entire playoffs and should be good to go around the time training camp starts. If it is not repairable and he has a knee arthroscopy with just a cleanup of the meniscus, I would anticipate that he would be out between 4 to 6 weeks so he would likely be able to be back for the third round of the playoffs. Long term this hopefully won’t impact him too much during his career. It’s certainly better than an articular cartilage injury or a torn ACL. A lot of the horror stories you hear about people never recovering after a knee arthroscopy are because they had too much arthritis going into the surgery, so they were basically doomed from the get-go. That certainly isn’t the case for Williams as he has no previous history of knee issues that I know of
if it is a fixable tear then they will fix it and for that the recovery is about as long as an ACL rehab – he would certainly be out for the entire playoffs and should be good to go around the time training camp starts. If it is not repairable and he has a knee arthroscopy with just a cleanup of the meniscus, I would anticipate that he would be out between 4 to 6 weeks so he would likely be able to be back for the third round of the playoffs. Long term this hopefully won’t impact him too much during his career. It’s certainly better than an articular cartilage injury or a torn ACL. A lot of the horror stories you hear about people never recovering after a knee arthroscopy are because they had too much arthritis going into the surgery, so they were basically doomed from the get-go. That certainly isn’t the case for Williams as he has no previous history of knee issues that I know of
Thank you. So not as existential as some earlier posts were speculating.
Unfortunately, Williams does have a history of tendonitis in his left knee going back at least a couple of years if that changes your prognosis.
If it’s fixable, can he rest, play on it, and then get surgery after the season? Or did you mean unfixable? Sorry, just trying to understand the options.
Thanks for insight. Here's the co-pay.
As for TL's medical history, he's had left knee soreness in the past - https://www.celticslife.com/2021/04/could-injuries-prevent-rob-williams.html. He also suffered a bone edema in his left hip. I think all of us are super worried that there's something more structural going on; I guess this is where we might find out whether this is a one-off as we all hope or there is something more serious going on.
Hmmmm. I'm confused about this. He's a world class athlete and I'm just a schlep. But I have a torn meniscus in my right knee - I tore it 5 years ago. I considered surgery but decided against it because it would expose the arthritis even more and you can't undo a meniscus surgery (or arthritis). So I got a cortisone shot and it took away the pain. Doc said I'd need another one in six months. Haven't gone back since.
When I ski, yeah the knee hurts. And putting it in certain positions is quite painful. But I've still skied, played hoops against college athletes, played volleyball, etc. Maybe his is way worse than mine, but I just didn't think of a torn meniscus as the kind of thing that would keep a world class athlete with top-of-the-line medical care, out "indefinitely". But I guess it is. Huge bummer for him and the Celtics.
The current timeline is “minimum of a few weeks” with additional testing today to determine further on the time table
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1508469824195899398
It’s not a “definitely out for the season” right now
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1508469824195899398
It’s not a “definitely out for the season” right now
Williams has had left knee tendonitis dating back to his rookie year at summer league and possibly from college. He was red flagged by several teams during the draft process but I don’t recall if it was due to his knee, hip or both.
I have nothing to add other than: This fucking sucks. Watching TimeLord play is one of my unadulterated joys.
TL was red flagged, according to MA Live, because of his "popliteal artery entrapment syndrome" - the arterial condition that he was born with. https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2018/07/sources_boston_celtics_rookie.html
A quick Bing search doesn't show any linkage between PAES and meniscus tears but I have as much medical training as Deuce Tatum so what do I know?
Not a doctor, but I've had 3 meniscus tears. Each one required arthroscopy. One I had full range of motion and was pain free in a couple weeks. The other two took longer, but not more than 4 weeks. One still bugs me a little. From what I was told if repair is warranted, it's a significantly longer recovery, but better long term. Mine they just cleaned out a torn flap.
The suggestion above that he shouldn't have been playing early in the 3rd quarter of a "blowout" is just fucking ridiculous.
The suggestion above that he shouldn't have been playing early in the 3rd quarter of a "blowout" is just fucking ridiculous.
The curse of Ed Lacerte carries on. Even if he is able to come back at some point during the playoffs, how effective will he be if he isn't close to 100%? God damn it.
Ugh, totally sucks, I’m sorry, you guys. Having followed the endless rehab of James Wiseman over the past year, I may have PTSD from the word “meniscus.” As I understand it, the repair option — which seems like the preferred option these days — has a much better long-term prognosis than removal, but also a much longer and less predictable immediate recovery time. Jaren Jackson Jr. was 10 months, which seemed like forever for a meniscus; and now Wiseman is at a year and counting, and has recently been shut down for the season with swelling (with at least afaik no concerns that another surgery will be necessary).
Both big, athletic guys like TimeLord. Sigh. But all injuries and bodies are different, so here’s hoping for the speediest and most complete recovery timetable possible for RW.
Both big, athletic guys like TimeLord. Sigh. But all injuries and bodies are different, so here’s hoping for the speediest and most complete recovery timetable possible for RW.
Watching TL roam, defend and own the paint was a joy to watch. He was a different defensive dominant dude. I hope he gets back ASA(reasonably-medically)P and regains his magic.
I was thinking the same thing. TL's provided a template and video of how a F/C with length and some athleticism can work within this effective defensive scheme. Add to that some BBIQ and you might be able to replace 60-70% of TL. The passing and uber-athleticism are too much to ask, but PBS is hopefully looking for someone who can continue this defense. The other players are so comfortable with it, it'd be optimal if they could continue their roles within it without making too many adjustments/compromises.
I'm going to miss watching TL for the near future. Favorite player to watch and have loved watching this young squad - and Al (sorry Al) - coalesce. They really seem to like playing together.
a pogo stick that can move his feet, block shots and dunk. Slightly taller Derrick Jones Jr would help or maybe DJJ is another hat to throw in the ring this summer
Yeah I think if we’ve established anything this year it is that an NBA 20-pt lead isn’t considered garbage time until the final 3 min or so…..not midway through the 3Q.
TL’s usage the last two weeks has been light as well. Over the past two weeks he’s only played 5 games (sat out one) with none over 26 min due to the blowouts not requiring him down the stretch of games.
I had a torn meniscus and arthroscopic surgery after. They just went in a trimmed where it was torn and I was back working out in a few weeks , but there was still some pain when it caught in the wrong place
Ended up with full knee replacement a few years later though.
Ended up with full knee replacement a few years later though.
Yup, even when this team was bad he was the fun guy to watch. Get well soon TL.
This is it right here. Just a couple days after they put 1st round (and playin) tickets on sale.
I think they can make a run, but I don't see them beating the Suns or Warriors any more.
We have a pick in the late 50’s right? Should they go get the guy from Senegal who's playing in Barcelona, or Bacot, or Cockburn?
If they can squeak past the first two rounds and TL can come back round 3, they have a shot. But first we need to find out today if that’s possible.
Huge bummer of course, yet to be determined how big of a bummer.
As DRS explained, there is a pathway to a return in 4-ish weeks depending on many factors we don't know. The meniscus can tear in a million different ways and the treatment depends on the specifics. It's not at all like an ACL where typically its completely torn (or less commonly a couple variations of partially torn).
If this is a "big tear" that can be fixed, he will likely get it repaired and be out for the season. If the tear is not felt to be fixable, or is just very small, there is a chance he could have some of the meniscus trimmed and return in that 4-6 week window. He could also do nothing and just hope it calms down. NBA players play with meniscus tears all the time, again it depends on the specifics. We don't know if there are other issues, cartilage injury, background arthritis etc. Impossible to really guess at this time.
Given he was in significant pain and the initial reports are not encouraging, I'm not very optimistic for this season. Long term is anyone's guess, but obviously the bad outcome long term is that the repair fails or they have to trim a lot of meniscal tissue leading to arthritis faster than would have otherwise happened.
As DRS explained, there is a pathway to a return in 4-ish weeks depending on many factors we don't know. The meniscus can tear in a million different ways and the treatment depends on the specifics. It's not at all like an ACL where typically its completely torn (or less commonly a couple variations of partially torn).
If this is a "big tear" that can be fixed, he will likely get it repaired and be out for the season. If the tear is not felt to be fixable, or is just very small, there is a chance he could have some of the meniscus trimmed and return in that 4-6 week window. He could also do nothing and just hope it calms down. NBA players play with meniscus tears all the time, again it depends on the specifics. We don't know if there are other issues, cartilage injury, background arthritis etc. Impossible to really guess at this time.
Given he was in significant pain and the initial reports are not encouraging, I'm not very optimistic for this season. Long term is anyone's guess, but obviously the bad outcome long term is that the repair fails or they have to trim a lot of meniscal tissue leading to arthritis faster than would have otherwise happened.
Will they be making that sort of determination soon or do they need to let things calm down first before making a proper assessment?
Have courage.
Yes, it sucks, and we’re all spooked from the team’s past luck with injuries. But there’s not a covenant that you get to enter the postseason with your entire rotation healthy. There are 3 guys I’d hate more for this to happen to, and if he can come back and gut out the last two series, it might all work out.
It does, however, lower the margin for injuries to key guys to zero— so, there’s that.
Yes, it sucks, and we’re all spooked from the team’s past luck with injuries. But there’s not a covenant that you get to enter the postseason with your entire rotation healthy. There are 3 guys I’d hate more for this to happen to, and if he can come back and gut out the last two series, it might all work out.
It does, however, lower the margin for injuries to key guys to zero— so, there’s that.
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Couldn't agree with this more.
When it was announced to be "lateral" pain, it sounded like meniscus. As the docs attest upthread one can forecast a statistical outcome, but the outcome
and timing bands here are pretty fucking wide. No need for panic yet.
Theis himself had 2 meniscus tears and doesn't look any different. The timing sucks a bit for sure.
Overall this of course sucks but I'm cautiously optimistic that he can return to 90-100% by the ECF, even if he can only play some minutes it's a big help. Milwaukee or Philly without him in a potential second round will be tough and it extends the rotation but the team is still very strong.
And it's also good in the grander scheme that we haven't seen a recurrence of the hip issue that seemed much more chronic, and he's otherwise been very healthy this year.
As we all know they have this core together plus whatever they can add in the offseason for another season, and Al is the only piece they might lose after 22-23. You have a full offseason of workouts and Ime watching tape, and it already doesn't seem like anyone can stop them when they're playing in sync. So hopefully we get a whole playoffs like that next year if it doesn't happen this year.
And it's also good in the grander scheme that we haven't seen a recurrence of the hip issue that seemed much more chronic, and he's otherwise been very healthy this year.
As we all know they have this core together plus whatever they can add in the offseason for another season, and Al is the only piece they might lose after 22-23. You have a full offseason of workouts and Ime watching tape, and it already doesn't seem like anyone can stop them when they're playing in sync. So hopefully we get a whole playoffs like that next year if it doesn't happen this year.
They’ll determine it at the time of surgery - the MRI is informative but not definitive
