Tom Brady is retired

Curt S Loew

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IDK, I think a hypothetical argument could be made where winning a title wouldn't actually be the most important variable driving that decision for him.
I was thinking more health than another title. He's old. He may break a hip dropping back.
 

rodderick

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Brady was jittery in the pocket and staring at the rush in 2022, at 47 coming off one year of retirement he'd piss himself out there. Maybe on the Eagles he could still play at an above average level.
 

MikeM

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I was thinking more health than another title. He's old. He may break a hip dropping back.
Tom is still probably just as a good a bet to give you a full 17 today as at least half the starting QB in the league imo. Heck I'll take him hands down over 3/4 of the current starters in the AFC east :) (on both heath and ability at that)
 

Jungleland

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Tampa Tom experience bummed me out a lot, but at this point if you wouldn't love to seem him hoist a Lombardi in SF, I dunno. I could honestly talk myself into it making sense for a New England return, too.
 

dirtynine

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Going against the grain, I guess, I don’t like this. I want him to stay retired. It’s getting really odd to me that he can’t move on.
 

Pandemonium67

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The guy feels like he can still do it. I wouldn't bet against him, though I imagine there's an elevated chance of injury when he gets sacked.

Personally, I'd love to see him come back and keep Mahomes from a three-peat.
 

worm0082

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It really is like Jordan with the (Bullets) /Wizards. They had no real chance of competing. I think the guy just wants to play. I think he made his 2nd retirement announcement in an emotional moment, knew he couldn’t go back on that and painfully sat out the year and he’s dying to get back out there while there still time.
 

DJnVa

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I wonder what Chris Simms' "prospect breakdown" of 2024 Brady would be.
 

RoDaddy

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He'd get killed with this OL - or more specifically, LT - as the rest of the line might be decent this coming year. And with nothing close to a number one. But if say one of those things get solved through the draft, this gets intriqing albeit still improbable. His great connection to the Pats is there, and might be even more attractive without BB. And who might he bring wih him? Gronk out of retirement? Maybe somehow helping a quality receiver to be traded here like Evans? Even if somehow all these things aligned, it would still have to be a part time or half season gig, maybe after an ijury or poor QB play.
 

johnmd20

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He'd get killed with this OL - or more specifically, LT - as the rest of the line might be decent this coming year. And with nothing close to a number one. But if say one of those things get solved through the draft, this gets intriqing albeit still improbable. His great connection to the Pats is there, and might be even more attractive without BB. And who might he bring wih him? Gronk out of retirement? Maybe somehow helping a quality receiver to be traded here like Evans? Even if somehow all these things aligned, it would still have to be a part time or half season gig, maybe after an ijury or poor QB play.
No he wouldn't, he would just get rid of the ball immediately like he did basically his entire final year in Tampa.
 

MikeM

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It really is like Jordan with the (Bullets) /Wizards. They had no real chance of competing. I think the guy just wants to play. I think he made his 2nd retirement announcement in an emotional moment, knew he couldn’t go back on that and painfully sat out the year and he’s dying to get back out there while there still time.
If you are referring to a comeback on the Raiders, sure.

I mean the fit is there. The Raiders are a franchise that oozes a Jets' like vibe of relevancy desperation since making that move to Vegas. Bring him in, probably with the Aaron Rodgers' GM level say perk package, and like the Jets last year the Raiders instantly go from one of the least interesting teams in the NFL to the one dominating all the headlines even if/when things don't play out all that well for him on the field. For a guy looking to make his own long term investment in said team it's a clear win waiting to happen on a business level.
 

Salva135

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Brady on McAfee discussing his legacy vs Mahomes...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAopurTlc9Y


I love the humility and thoughtfulness in his approach to this. Jordan and Montana ultimately removed themselves from the game, but Brady has a unique opportunity to go from GOAT to GOAT ambassador. I really don't think Jordan or Montana loved their sport as much as they loved being the best. Brady truly loves the game, he loves sports, and he wants to show the world how much he loves it. He may or may not work out as a color guy but I can't wait to see him this Fall.
 

BigSoxFan

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Brady on McAfee discussing his legacy vs Mahomes...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAopurTlc9Y


I love the humility and thoughtfulness in his approach to this. Jordan and Montana ultimately removed themselves from the game, but Brady has a unique opportunity to go from GOAT to GOAT ambassador. I really don't think Jordan or Montana loved their sport as much as they loved being the best. Brady truly loves the game, he loves sports, and he wants to show the world how much he loves it. He may or may not work out as a color guy but I can't wait to see him this Fall.
Yeah, it would be really easy for Brady to default to the Michael Jordan pfft response whenever he feels his legacy is being challenged. He clearly has a lot of respect for Mahomes and I bet he’d be the first to congratulate him if he ever tied or beat his SB record.

(And I bet the competitor in him is happy that he has 2 high profile H2H wins over Mahomes in the playoffs)
 

Salva135

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Yeah, it would be really easy for Brady to default to the Michael Jordan pfft response whenever he feels his legacy is being challenged. He clearly has a lot of respect for Mahomes and I bet he’d be the first to congratulate him if he ever tied or beat his SB record.

(And I bet the competitor in him is happy that he has 2 high profile H2H wins over Mahomes in the playoffs)
I think he'd be the first to congratulate Mahomes if he reached 8. Brady's a psycho and respects fellow psychos. It has nothing to do with individual accomplishments, he loves the game which is why I'm excited to hear him call games this year.. Once Brady surpassed Montana he was probably already free-rolling his legacy in his mind.
 

Al Zarilla

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Brady on McAfee discussing his legacy vs Mahomes...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAopurTlc9Y


I love the humility and thoughtfulness in his approach to this. Jordan and Montana ultimately removed themselves from the game, but Brady has a unique opportunity to go from GOAT to GOAT ambassador. I really don't think Jordan or Montana loved their sport as much as they loved being the best. Brady truly loves the game, he loves sports, and he wants to show the world how much he loves it. He may or may not work out as a color guy but I can't wait to see him this Fall.
Joe Montana has always been kind of shy, and Jordan doesn't give two f*cks, right? Kind of apples and oranges (and pears?) comparing the three.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Joe Montana has always been kind of shy, and Jordan doesn't give two f*cks, right? Kind of apples and oranges (and pears?) comparing the three.
I wish I could find it again, there was a profile on Montana a little while ago that made it clear he is threatened by Brady and doesn't like him much due to Brady surpassing everything Montana ever did.
 

E5 Yaz

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Smiling Joe Hesketh

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IN THE PAST nine seasons, before retiring for the second time in as many years, Tom Brady won four Super Bowls. Montana watched those games, most at his home overlooking San Francisco Bay. He's been known to sometimes yell at the television, not so quietly rooting for the Seahawks or Falcons. In an email to me once, Montana called him "the guy in Tampa" instead of using his name.

"He definitely cares," Elizabeth Montana says. "I don't think he would own up to caring, but he gets pretty animated at the Tom Brady comparison and is quick to point out the game has changed so much."
Brady praises Montana as "a killer" in public, but Joe's friends feel like he's made little effort to get to know the older player in real life. They have each other's phone numbers. Something about Brady specifically seems to irritate Montana -- friends say he'd be happy if Patrick Mahomes won eight titles -- but the truth is, the two men are similar, driven by similar emotions to be great. Ultimately Montana may not care about a ring count, but watching himself get knocked down a spot fires deep powerful impulses and trips old wires even now.
Montana comes off as an insecure jealous guy.
 

Jimbodandy

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The idea that Brady was obligated to get to know Joe better privately is dumb. No, Brady is not under any obligation to privately genuflect to past NFL greats.
Reminds me of that Vancouver goalie complaining that Tim Thomas didn't pump his tires in public enough.

Must suck being in the conversation for GOAT for a long time and having someone make you a footnote, but it happens to everyone eventually. Gotta get over it, gramps.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I also don’t believe for a second that Montana would’ve become fast friends with him and/or that he’d be cool with Brady surpassing his resume, and most people deeming him the better/more accomplished QB, if Brady had lunch with him a few times. That’s just a convenient excuse for chaffing at someone else getting flowers you used to get.
 

Hoya81

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Montana comes off as an insecure jealous guy.
I spent a few minutes comparing their respective stats and basically there’s a Hall of Fame career between just the top line numbers:

Brady: 649 TD/212 INT, 89,214 yds
Montana: 273 TD/139 INT, 40,551 yds

Difference: 376 TD/ 73 INT, 48,663 yards


Montana probably lost around 4 seasons worth of production to labor issues and injuries, but it’s still a tremendous gap if he adds another 100 TDs and 15-20k yards.
 

Theodoric

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I spent a few minutes comparing their respective stats and basically there’s a Hall of Fame career between just the top line numbers:

Brady: 649 TD/212 INT, 89,214 yds
Montana: 273 TD/139 INT, 40,551 yds

Difference: 376 TD/ 73 INT, 48,663 yards


Montana probably lost around 4 seasons worth of production to labor issues and injuries, but it’s still a tremendous gap if he adds another 100 TDs and 15-20k yards.
On the other hand, Phillip Rivers: 420+ TD, 200+ INT, 63,000+ yards. A large part of the tremendous gap is explained by how much the game changed in the twenty-ish years between Brady's and Montana's careers.
 

Jimbodandy

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On the other hand, Phillip Rivers: 420+ TD, 200+ INT, 63,000+ yards. A large part of the tremendous gap is explained by how much the game changed in the twenty-ish years between Brady's and Montana's careers.
Of course. But even when you look at Montana's numbers against his contemporaries, what distinguished him from them so starkly was rings. And Brady took that from him. That's really the source of his beef.
 

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Of course. But even when you look at Montana's numbers against his contemporaries, what distinguished him from them so starkly was rings. And Brady took that from him. That's really the source of his beef.
There was another article (can't remember) where there was a quote from his wife, who said something along the lines of "Joe thinks he's the GOAT and he never lets us forget it." It was clearly said light-heartedly, but the implication was very clear that Montana is deeply resentful he's no longer considered the GOAT due to Brady.
 

Auger34

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There was another article (can't remember) where there was a quote from his wife, who said something along the lines of "Joe thinks he's the GOAT and he never lets us forget it." It was clearly said light-heartedly, but the implication was very clear that Montana is deeply resentful he's no longer considered the GOAT due to Brady.
I think it's more than that honestly.

It's that he basically did everything that Montana stood for but did it better.
They were both unheralded, fought for everything and were drafted too late. Thompson really hits at that what Montana loved was the struggle and the sacrifice and the work to get to where he was. That's basically all of the stuff Brady loves and is lauded for

The line about "he'd be happy if Mahomes got 8" really drives that home. It's not like Mahomes reached out to Montana or tried to be his friend or paid him respect or whatever nonsense Montana is trying to ding Brady for. Mahomes is one of the most talented QBs to ever pick up a football. Montana looks at Mahomes and thinks "shit if I had the arm, the mobility and the overall god given ability that that guy had, I would have won the Super Bowl every year".

There's really no "yeah, but" for Montana to use with Brady (other than the NFL changing but it seems that Montana understands that that's the case when comparing any generation")
 
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BaseballJones

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I wonder what more Mahomes needs to do in order to truly be considered at Brady's level. It's easy to say "win 7 rings" but I suspect if he got 5 and had 5-6 MVPs he would be in that conversation legitimately.
 

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I wonder what more Mahomes needs to do in order to truly be considered at Brady's level. It's easy to say "win 7 rings" but I suspect if he got 5 and had 5-6 MVPs he would be in that conversation legitimately.
He can heave a few more incompletions in the SB while falling that should have been intercepted. He certainly got praised enough for the last one.
 

dynomite

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He can heave a few more incompletions in the SB while falling that should have been intercepted. He certainly got praised enough for the last one.
God I want to squeeze a stress ball just thinking about the reaction to that.

I will be forever relieved that Brady played long enough to go 2-0 against Mahomes in the playoffs, not just waxing the Chiefs in the Super Bowl but also beating him at home in the '18 AFCCG. It makes all the Brady vs. Mahomes arguments seem silly to me, even as Mahomes chases Brady's total Super Bowl ring count. I just smile and laugh when someone tries to make the argument to me now, and they usually get *angry*.
 

johnmd20

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My point being, Mahomes was AWFUL in that SB and so many people were desperate not to blame him for anything that they gave him credit for an incompletion.

Absolutely absurd.
Mahomes was under assault for the entirety of that game and he came close to a bunch of incredible plays, despite being under assault. Mahomes' play isn't the reason why Tampa won that super bowl. It was the offensive line of KC(which was terrible) and the defensive line of TB(which was exceptional) that made the difference.

No QB would have had a chance under that pressure. Mahomes is actually that good that you can praise him in losses.

Praising Mahomes takes nothing away from Tom Brady, the best player in any sport in the history of sports.
 

Theodoric

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Of course. But even when you look at Montana's numbers against his contemporaries, what distinguished him from them so starkly was rings. And Brady took that from him. That's really the source of his beef.
I'll admit, I'm a Niners fan. And Joe has been entirely ungracious about this. But even with your point, the point about different eras still stands. Part of Brady being the GOAT (and he is) is his extreme longevity. Would he have gotten that taking the late hits on astroturf fields that Joe had to put up with in the 80s? Comparison between eras is ultimately futile.
 

Salva135

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I wonder what more Mahomes needs to do in order to truly be considered at Brady's level. It's easy to say "win 7 rings" but I suspect if he got 5 and had 5-6 MVPs he would be in that conversation legitimately.
Mahomes already deserves to be in the discussion in terms of pure NFL greatness. Nobody has had a better start to their career, and Mahomes' biggest flaw was running into Brady at the tail end of his career. It's difficult to see him putting up the longevity numbers, but what matters to me is the way Mahomes talks about this stuff. He wants to be the best but has the same unique focus, competitiveness, and humility. By all accounts his teammates absolutely love and respect him the way that Brady was in his locker room. When I watch Mahomes I see the same greatness, and I'm happy to talk about them in the same breath.

We seem to forget Brady went a decade without winning anything. The NFL is hard. Mahomes is far closer to Brady than he is to Rodgers or even Peyton.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'll admit, I'm a Niners fan. And Joe has been entirely ungracious about this. But even with your point, the point about different eras still stands. Part of Brady being the GOAT (and he is) is his extreme longevity. Would he have gotten that taking the late hits on astroturf fields that Joe had to put up with in the 80s? Comparison between eras is ultimately futile.
Yeah, when you look back in most of the sports you see HOFers with 12-13 year careers, and now, 18-20 is nothing. Medicine and nutrition have come a long way.
 

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I'll admit, I'm a Niners fan. And Joe has been entirely ungracious about this. But even with your point, the point about different eras still stands. Part of Brady being the GOAT (and he is) is his extreme longevity. Would he have gotten that taking the late hits on astroturf fields that Joe had to put up with in the 80s? Comparison between eras is ultimately futile.
Joe ran a lot more than Brady did, and I think his style of play, even if he played in the more QB-friendly era of today, would get him hurt a lot more often than Brady was.
 

dynomite

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We seem to forget Brady went a decade without winning anything. The NFL is hard. Mahomes is far closer to Brady than he is to Rodgers or even Peyton.
I'll admit I'm just a slightly (?) obnoxious Pats fan when this topic comes up.

Obviously Mahomes is incredible and deserves to be in all these barroom debates. As a not-so-humble brag I even met Mahomes once (it was a small group Q&A when the Chiefs were celebrating their SB win over the Eagles at the WH) and he seems like a pretty decent guy. He spent some extra time hanging with a kid who was in a Mahomes jersey, recorded a video with him on his phone to show his classmates, etc.

Anyway, yes, Mahomes' career has been incredible already and he's squarely in the conversation for 2nd best QB ever.
 

Salva135

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I'll admit I'm just a slightly (?) obnoxious Pats fan when this topic comes up.

Obviously Mahomes is incredible and deserves to be in all these barroom debates. As a not-so-humble brag I even met Mahomes once (it was a small group Q&A when the Chiefs were celebrating their SB win over the Eagles at the WH) and he seems like a pretty decent guy. He spent some extra time hanging with a kid who was in a Mahomes jersey, recorded a video with him on his phone to show his classmates, etc.

Anyway, yes, Mahomes' career has been incredible already and he's squarely in the conversation for 2nd best QB ever.
When you take into account the noise surrounding Mahomes' immediate family compared to the Rockwell Brady family, his ability to stay focused, grounded, and competitive is even more impressive.
 

Cotillion

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Mahomes was under assault for the entirety of that game and he came close to a bunch of incredible plays, despite being under assault. Mahomes' play isn't the reason why Tampa won that super bowl. It was the offensive line of KC(which was terrible) and the defensive line of TB(which was exceptional) that made the difference.

No QB would have had a chance under that pressure. Mahomes is actually that good that you can praise him in losses.

Praising Mahomes takes nothing away from Tom Brady, the best player in any sport in the history of sports.
There are differences though. The way people drool over that incomplete pass is absurd. Takes nothing away with how great Mahomes is (and I'm not I think he's the best thing going right now and he's fun to watch except for the stupid shit he does at the out of bounds line), but the amount of fawning he gets particularly on that incomplete pass is kind of insane.

It actually gets brought up as one of the greatest plays he's made, except he didn't actually make it. It was incomplete.
 

johnmd20

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Joe ran a lot more than Brady did, and I think his style of play, even if he played in the more QB-friendly era of today, would get him hurt a lot more often than Brady was.
Plus QBs got routinely destroyed in the 80s. That hit Montana took against the Giants in 1986 almost knocked his block off.
 

Salva135

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Getting back to the original discussion, Brady's got a unique combination of humility and experience that's going to make him great in the booth. As much as we love Romo's straight talk from a QB perspective, Brady's insights carry an even greater gravitas. I think he's going to be special and I can't wait to hear him in the fall.