Tompa Bay: Tom Tom club

shoosh77

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Oct 19, 2009
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Glad I spend the bucks to see him come back with the Bucs this year to Foxboro. He’s been everything we as fans could have wanted. Every year my oldest and I would go to a Pats game for his birthday present, and it was always an honor to see him do his thing.

Now I’m kinda hoping he and Edelman take over for the Manning-cast if Peyton is part of the group that buys the Broncos.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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Feb 22, 2004
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The Athletic had a story this week saying "Admit it Pats fans, you were secretly rooting for Brady"

He's wrong, in the sense I'm not sure how secret it was for most of us.
Bizarre. Pats fans weren’t just openly rooting for Brady. They were telling everyone who would listen they were following and rooting for Brady in Tampa.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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So if this is it, let's evaluate his last season compared to other great players - in any major team sport in the US (I don't want to hear about so-and-so's amazing last year as a cricket player for Pakistan). As I look at this, I'm thinking about individual performance plus team success. Obviously going out on top as the champion in your sport is HUGE. So big point for Peyton Manning in that regard. But, on the flip side, Manning was objectively awful during that entire season and, especially, the postseason run. So his individual performance was really really bad.

Brady didn't get as far as Peyton did, but his individual performance blew Peyton's away. Anyway, here are some candidates.

Tom Brady (2021): 485-719 (67.5%), 5316 yds, 43 td, 12 int, 102.1 passer rating, led league in completions, passing yards, and passing TDs, and I'm pretty sure finished second in league MVP voting. His team went 13-4, won his division, and went to the divisional round. There, he led a comeback from a 27-3 deficit to tie the game at 27 with less than a minute left, but Tampa lost.

Peyton Manning (2015): 198-331 (59.8%), 2249 yds, 9 td, 17 int, 67.9 passer rating. Was benched during the season. His postseason numbers that year were awful, but his team went on to a 12-4 record and won the Super Bowl.

Ted Williams (1960): 98 r, 29 hr, 72 rbi, .316/.451/.645/1.096, 190 ops+, all-star team. Boston went a dismal 65-89 that season.

Sandy Koufax (1966): 27-9, 1.73 era, 27 cg, 5 shutouts, 317 k, 190 era+, 0.99 whip, 8.8 k/9, all-star, CYA winner. Team went 95-67 and lost in the World Series.

Mariano Rivera (2013): 6-2, 2.11 era, 44 sv, 190 era+, 1.05 whip, 7.6 k/9, all-star. Team went 85-77 and missed the playoffs.

David Ortiz (2016): 79 r, 48 2b, 38 hr, 127 rbi, .315/.401/.610/1.021, 164 ops+, all-star. Team went 93-69, won the division, and lost in the ALDS.

Bill Russell (1968-69): 9.9 points, 19.3 rebounds, 4.9 assists, all-star. Team went 48-34 and won the NBA championship.

Michael Jordan (2002-03): 20.0 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.5 steals, all-star. Team went 37-45 and missed the playoffs.

Feel free to add to this list. But of this list, it's hard to argue with Brady having the greatest last season ever. I'd say Koufax is right up there, all things considered. Good argument for him. Rivera and Papi also had ridiculously great last seasons.
 

simplyeric

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If I was TB12 I’d sit with my inner circle and key Tampa folk (GM, coach) and tell them either ‘I haven’t decided’ or ‘I’m coming back’, and then I’d flood the media with conflicting reports. I’d get Giselle to act annoyed, like she’s mad about continuing to play. I’d get Gronk to be like ‘we’re keeping the band together ‘. I’d get Jules to be confusing, and my dad to be like ‘no’, and Guerrero to buy a house in a different city, and…

yknow, just for the fun of it.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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If I was TB12 I’d sit with my inner circle and key Tampa folk (GM, coach) and tell them either ‘I haven’t decided’ or ‘I’m coming back’, and then I’d flood the media with conflicting reports. I’d get Giselle to act annoyed, like she’s mad about continuing to play. I’d get Gronk to be like ‘we’re keeping the band together ‘. I’d get Jules to be confusing, and my dad to be like ‘no’, and Guerrero to buy a house in a different city, and…

yknow, just for the fun of it.
You’d probably also spell your superstar wife’s name correctly.
 

snowmanny

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So if this is it, let's evaluate his last season compared to other great players - in any major team sport in the US (I don't want to hear about so-and-so's amazing last year as a cricket player for Pakistan). As I look at this, I'm thinking about individual performance plus team success. Obviously going out on top as the champion in your sport is HUGE. So big point for Peyton Manning in that regard. But, on the flip side, Manning was objectively awful during that entire season and, especially, the postseason run. So his individual performance was really really bad.

Brady didn't get as far as Peyton did, but his individual performance blew Peyton's away. Anyway, here are some candidates.

Tom Brady (2021): 485-719 (67.5%), 5316 yds, 43 td, 12 int, 102.1 passer rating, led league in completions, passing yards, and passing TDs, and I'm pretty sure finished second in league MVP voting. His team went 13-4, won his division, and went to the divisional round. There, he led a comeback from a 27-3 deficit to tie the game at 27 with less than a minute left, but Tampa lost.

Peyton Manning (2015): 198-331 (59.8%), 2249 yds, 9 td, 17 int, 67.9 passer rating. Was benched during the season. His postseason numbers that year were awful, but his team went on to a 12-4 record and won the Super Bowl.

Ted Williams (1960): 98 r, 29 hr, 72 rbi, .316/.451/.645/1.096, 190 ops+, all-star team. Boston went a dismal 65-89 that season.

Sandy Koufax (1966): 27-9, 1.73 era, 27 cg, 5 shutouts, 317 k, 190 era+, 0.99 whip, 8.8 k/9, all-star, CYA winner. Team went 95-67 and lost in the World Series.

Mariano Rivera (2013): 6-2, 2.11 era, 44 sv, 190 era+, 1.05 whip, 7.6 k/9, all-star. Team went 85-77 and missed the playoffs.

David Ortiz (2016): 79 r, 48 2b, 38 hr, 127 rbi, .315/.401/.610/1.021, 164 ops+, all-star. Team went 93-69, won the division, and lost in the ALDS.

Bill Russell (1968-69): 9.9 points, 19.3 rebounds, 4.9 assists, all-star. Team went 48-34 and won the NBA championship.

Michael Jordan (2002-03): 20.0 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.5 steals, all-star. Team went 37-45 and missed the playoffs.

Feel free to add to this list. But of this list, it's hard to argue with Brady having the greatest last season ever. I'd say Koufax is right up there, all things considered. Good argument for him. Rivera and Papi also had ridiculously great last seasons.
How about MVP of the NFL, 5.3 yards per carry, 1872 yards from scrimmage in 14 games, team goes 11-3 and loses in the championship game?

Shoeless Joe batted .382 OPS+172 for a 96-58 team.
 
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BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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His last 16 playoff games (so a full season):

13-3 record
427-672 (63.5%), 5,092 yds, 7.6 y/a, 30 td, 11 int, 94.7 rating

All against playoff teams.
Half against teams that made it to the conference championship game.
Elite competition.

Look at those ridiculous numbers. The picks are a touch higher than I'd like, and the TDs are a little lower, but his teams averaged 30.1 points a game, so he was getting them to the end zone, even if sometimes they finished it off with a running TD.

11 of those 16 games his teams scored 30 or more points. That's amazing consistency. Here's the offensive output in those 16 games:

34
36
34
35
24
33
41
37
13
13
31
30
31
31
31
27

Only twice with fewer than 24 points. Only once with more than 36 points. 12 of the 16 games they scored between 27-36 points.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Tom Brady retires with the following rankings:

AV - #1 (316; Brees is #2 with 277)
Pro Bowls - #1 (15; 4 are tied at #2 with 14)
MVP - #2 (3; Peyton is #1 with 5)
Completions - #1 (7,263; Brees is #2 with 7,142)
Attempts - #1 (11,317; Brees is #2 with 10,551)
Yards - #1 (84,520; Brees is #2 with 80,358)
Touchdowns - #1 (624; Brees is #2 with 571)
Passer rating - #8 (97.6; Mahomes is #1 with 105.8)
4th quarter comebacks - #2 (42; Peyton is #1 with 43)
Most regular season wins - #1 (243; Peyton and Favre at #2 with 186)
Most postseason wins - #1 (35; Montana is #2 with 16)
Teams beaten - #1 (32; tied with Brees, Peyton, and Favre with 32)
Conference championships - #1 (10; Elway is #2 with 5)
Super Bowl championships - #1 (7; Montana and Bradshaw are #2 with 4)

Brady's resumé is impeccable. He had ridiculously great individual stats and unbelievable seasons. He has a room full of personal hardware. He had the greatest run of sustained excellence and longevity the league has ever seen. And on top of all that, he was the greatest winner the sport has ever seen, winning more games and championships than anyone by a MILE.

Truly the greatest of all time, and frankly, it's not even remotely close.
 

Euclis20

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One not so great record that I assumed he'd end up with - most times sacked. He retires as the 2nd most sacked QB of all-time, just 11 behind Roethlisberger. So, that's nice.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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One not so great record that I assumed he'd end up with - most times sacked. He retires as the 2nd most sacked QB of all-time, just 11 behind Roethlisberger. So, that's nice.
Purely a function of longevity, because he regularly was one of the lesser sacked QBs in the league. I know that his good records also reflect longevity, but it's a little different because he was also among the best in the league in THOSE categories too.

But I will say this: Tom Brady was one tough mother. He took some HELLACIOUS hits in his career and kept bouncing back. That 2015 AFCCG (played in 2016) he took a beating. He got pounded by the Ravens all the time. And then early in his career, this hit by the Bills.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4OTH0pddv4
 

snowmanny

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We will have to see how many times Burrow gets sacked in a couple weeks to see if Brady remains in 2nd.
 

Saints Rest

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Tom Brady retires with the following rankings:

AV - #1 (316; Brees is #2 with 277)
Pro Bowls - #1 (15; 4 are tied at #2 with 14)
MVP - #2 (3; Peyton is #1 with 5)
Completions - #1 (7,263; Brees is #2 with 7,142)
Attempts - #1 (11,317; Brees is #2 with 10,551)
Yards - #1 (84,520; Brees is #2 with 80,358)
Touchdowns - #1 (624; Brees is #2 with 571)
Passer rating - #8 (97.6; Mahomes is #1 with 105.8)
4th quarter comebacks - #2 (42; Peyton is #1 with 43)
Most regular season wins - #1 (243; Peyton and Favre at #2 with 186)
Most postseason wins - #1 (35; Montana is #2 with 16)
Teams beaten - #1 (32; tied with Brees, Peyton, and Favre with 32)
Conference championships - #1 (10; Elway is #2 with 5)
Super Bowl championships - #1 (7; Montana and Bradshaw are #2 with 4)

Brady's resumé is impeccable. He had ridiculously great individual stats and unbelievable seasons. He has a room full of personal hardware. He had the greatest run of sustained excellence and longevity the league has ever seen. And on top of all that, he was the greatest winner the sport has ever seen, winning more games and championships than anyone by a MILE.

Truly the greatest of all time, and frankly, it's not even remotely close.
on Passer rating, where does he rank among retied QB's? Seems like that is a stat, live batting average, that for most players there will be a bit of a fall off in one's later years.
 

Ralphwiggum

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on Passer rating, where does he rank among retied QB's? Seems like that is a stat, live batting average, that for most players there will be a bit of a fall off in one's later years.
He's second behind Brees, but I think it is more due to era than passer rating falling off due to age. The others above him are Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Wilson, Prescott and Cousins.

Edit: in his first 6 seasons as a starter Brady's top QB rating was 92.6 and he was only above 90 twice. In his last six seasons he was only below 100 twice. The game completely changed (and obviously he kept playing at a ridiculously high level well into his 40s).
 

BaseballJones

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Yes that's right. it's a new era of football, and passer ratings are much higher now than they used to be. If we call the "modern era" of passing to begin during the 2005 season - I think that the rules about illegal contact and such happened following the 2004 season - then Brady's career passer rating (2005-2021) was 99.8, which would put him 5th all time, behind Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, and Wilson. If you go from 2007-2021 (2007 being the year he started to get some elite weapons), his passer rating was 101.0, still 5th all time, but right there with the top group.
 

Ralphwiggum

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That and a dome.
Sorry poorly worded post on my part. The reason he's not higher up on the list for all-time QB ratings is that he is hampered by his early career where a QB rating above 90 was excellent. His 92.3 rating in 2005 was good for 6th in the league. In 2021 a 92 rating would have been 16th. It is why the top of that list is all active players.

But yes Brees is ahead of him in all time rating in part because he played so many games in a dome.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Career passer rating

Outdoors
- Brady: 96.7
- Peyton: 94.0
- Brees: 92.5

Indoors
- Brady: 111.0
- Peyton: 99.1
- Brees: 104.6

Retroroof
- Brady: 100.4
- Peyton: 99.2
- Brees: 93.4

Home
- Brady: 98.5
- Peyton: 99.8
- Brees: 103.8

Road
- Brady: 96.7
- Peyton: 93.3
- Brees: 93.5

Brady was better in every conceivable condition compared to the other two guys. The only reason Brees' total passer rating is better is because of all those games in either domed stadiums or in nice weather. And when Brady had to play in a dome, it was always on the road, where the crowd noise was a huge factor.
 

Rudy's Curve

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I don't think anything will ever top the 2010 NFC West (the Seahawks won at 7-9 but it was much worse than that - the four teams finished 27th, 28th, 29th and 31st in SRS and combined for -34.6 SRS!) but the NFC South could definitely be 2020 NFC East-bad next year. The Bucs and Saints are pretty much guaranteed to be worse and the Falcons and Panthers are horrible, and it's hard to see a quick fix QB for any of them. They also have to play the AFC North and NFC West, plus the AFC West for the 17th game. I could definitely see the winner being 8-9, even with an extra home game.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Not that there is a lot of super-physical play in the pro bowl but could you imagine Brady playing for 22 years without suffering a catastrophic injury (beyond the ACL) and then taking a head shot or something in the pro bowl after announcing his retirement? I can't imagine he has any interest in playing, but I also think Gisele would fucking kill him.
 

lexrageorge

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I know head-to-head records are kind of dumb when it comes to quarterbacks, but it is still interesting to see how Brady's teams fared against opposing QB's, as well as the list of QB's that Brady has faced. Below is a summary of the records that are now frozen in time with Brady's official retirement.

Brady in his career has faced 132 opposing starting quarterbacks, as well as some assorted backups along the way (which I did not track all that closely), with the latter often coming in for relief duty during the regularly occurring beatings the Pats would lay on their opponents. I did not include the Brady's cameo against the Lions in 2000, or his relief stint in the game Bledsoe got injured. All other Brady appearances are included.

Of those 132, Brady (or, more accurately, a team on which Brady played) beat all but 7 of them at least once. Four of those 7 QB's Brady faced but once (Lamar Jackson, Kevin Kolb, Patrick Ramsey, and Taysom Hill); Brady lost to both Brian Griese and Nick Foles twice, and went 0-3 against the immortal Jake Plummer.

Of the remaining 125 opposing QB's, Brady had a winning record against 107, a 0.500 record against 11, and a losing record against 7. The QB's against which Brady had the most success are Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers, against whom Brady went 8-0, followed by Andrew Luck (6-0). Brady got the highest number of wins against Peyton Manning (11-6), followed by Ryan Fitzpatrick (10-3) and Ben Roethlisberger (9-3). Peyton Manning's 6 wins against Brady remain the most by any opposing QB, followed by both Drew Brees and Ryan Tannehill with 5 each. 7 opposing QB's have beaten Brady 3 times, and 9 twice. Meanwhile, 83 opposing QB's have never beaten Brady. In that list of 83 are former teammates Jacoby Brissett, Brian Hoyer, Doug Flutie, Matt Cassell, Tim Tebow, Chris Simms (ha!), and, if you don't count that relief appearance against the Jets, Vinny Testaverde. Brady went 4-1 against Drew Bledsoe.

The full list of starting QB's Brady has faced is spoiled below. In that list you will find 7 Matt/Matthew's (Cassell, Flynn, Hasselback, Moore, Ryan, Schaub, and Stafford), four Josh's (Allen, Freeman, Johnson, and McCown) three Chris's (Chandler, Simms, and Weinke), as well as two Chad's (Henne & Pennington), Trent's (Edwards & Green) and many others. He has also faced 3 Johnson's (Brad, Rob, and Josh) and three Jones's (Daniel, Landry, and, of course, Mac), but only 2 Smith's (Alex and Geno).

Back to that Jets game during which Brady made his first meaningful appearance in a game. Vinny Testaverde was the opposing QB. When Testaverde came into the league in 1987, the top QB's by QB rating were Joe Montana, Bernie Kosar, Phil Simms, Dan Marino, and Neil Lomax (!). Elway and Jim Kelly were 27 and young Randall Cunningham was 24, and the 2nd QB in yards thrown after Lomax was Boomer Esiason.

A. J. Feeley
Aaron Brooks
Aaron Rodgers
Alex Smith
Alex Van Pelt
Andrew Luck
Andy Dalton
Baker Mayfield
Ben Roethlisberger
Blake Bortles
Brad Johnson
Brandon Weeden
Brett Favre
Brian Griese
Brian Hoyer
Brock Osweiler
Brooks Bollinger
Bryce Petty
Byron Leftwich
Cam Newton
Carson Palmer
Carson Wentz
Case Keenum
Chad Henne
Chad Pennington
Charlie Whitehurst
Chase Daniel
Chris Chandler
Chris Simms
Chris Weinke
Cleo Lemon
Colin Kaepernick
Colt McCoy
Dak Prescott
Dan Orlovsky
Daniel Jones
Danny Kanell
Daunte Culpepper
David Carr
David Garrard
Derek Anderson
Derek Carr
Deshaun Watson
Donovan McNabb
Doug Flutie
Drew Bledsoe
Drew Brees
EJ Manuel
Eli Manning
Geno Smith
Gus Frerotte
Jacoby Brissett
Jake Delhomme
Jake Locker
Jake Plummer
Jalen Hurts
Jameis Winston
Jared Goff
Jason Campbell
Jay Cutler
Jay Fiedler
Jeff Driskel
Jim Miller
Joe Flacco
Joey Harrington
Jon Kitna
Josh Allen
Josh Freeman
Josh Johnson
Josh McCown
JP Losman
Justin Fields
Justin Herbert
Kelly Holcumb
Ken Dorsey
Kerry Collins
Kevin Kolb
Kirk Cousins
Kordell Stewart
Kurt Warner
Kyle Boller
Kyle Orton
Lamar Jackson
Landry Jones
Luke Falk
Luke McCown
Mac Jones
Marc Bulger
Marcus Mariota
Mark Sanchez
Matt Cassel
Matt Flynn
Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Moore
Matt Ryan
Matt Schaub
Matt Stafford
Mitchell Trubisky
Nick Foles
Patrick Mahomes
Patrick Ramsey
Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Quincy Carter
Rex Grossman
Rich Gannon
Rob Johnson
Russell Wilson
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Ryan Tannehill
Sam Bradford
Sam Darnold
Shaun Hill
Steve McNair
Taylor Heinicke
Taysom Hill
Teddy Bridgewater
Thaddeus Lewis
Tim Couch
Tim Tebow
Tony Banks
Tony Romo
Trent Edwards
Trent Green
Trevor Siemian
Tyler Palko
Tyler Thigpen
Tyrod Taylor
Vince Young
Vinny Testaverde
Zach Mettenberger
Zach Wilson
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
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So who wins this division next season? Barring a QB addition, could this be another year that a playoff team is under 500? A NO team without Payton has sub-.500 written all over them. CAR is spectacularly mediocre (a perfect spot for Jimmy G, IMO). TAM without Brady and Gronk (presumably) is meh. Does ATL find a way to sneak in? That we be an easier call if Ridley was staying.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Generally, when you have to throw the ball tons, it means you're in desperation mode, or you're in a crazy shootout. So here's how some greats have done throwing the ball 50+ times in the playoffs.

Brady (9 games)
- Record: 6-3
- Combined stat line: 293-482 (60.8%), 3049 yds, 6.3 y/a, 17 td, 13 int

Peyton (0 games)

Rodgers (0 games)

Montana (0 games)

Brees (2 games)
- Record: 0-2
- Combined stat line: 79-123 (64.2%), 866 yds, 7.0 y/a, 6 td, 2 int


Now bump that down to 40+ pass attempts and here's how it looks:

Brady (22 games)
- Record: 14-8 (.636)
- Combined stat line: 653-1049 (62.2%), 7206 yds, 6.9 y/a, 40 td, 21 int

Peyton (12 games)
- Record: 3-9 (.250)
- Combined stat line: 335-538 (62.3%), 3523 yds, 6.5 y/a, 16 td, 14 int,

Rodgers (7 games)
- Record: 2-5 (.286)
- Combined stat line: 191-308 (62.0%), 2298 yds, 7.5 y/a, 20 td, 6 int

Montana (3 games)
- Record: 1-2 (.333)
- Combined stat line: 81-138 (58.7%), 919 yds, 6.7 y/a, 4 td, 2 int

Brees (8 games)
- Record: 1-7 (.125)
- Combined stat line: 245-380 (64.5%), 2857 yds, 19 td, 7 int


So in games where these guys have had to carry their teams by throwing 40+ times in a playoff game...

Thomas Edward Patrick Brady: 14-8 (.636)
Peyton/Rodgers/Montana/Brees: 7-23 (.233)

Remarkable. (as are all these Brady facts)
 

lexrageorge

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Generally, when you have to throw the ball tons, it means you're in desperation mode, or you're in a crazy shootout. So here's how some greats have done throwing the ball 50+ times in the playoffs.

Brady (9 games)
- Record: 6-3
- Combined stat line: 293-482 (60.8%), 3049 yds, 6.3 y/a, 17 td, 13 int

Peyton (0 games)

Rodgers (0 games)

Montana (0 games)

Brees (2 games)
- Record: 0-2
- Combined stat line: 79-123 (64.2%), 866 yds, 7.0 y/a, 6 td, 2 int


Now bump that down to 40+ pass attempts and here's how it looks:

Brady (22 games)
- Record: 14-8 (.636)
- Combined stat line: 653-1049 (62.2%), 7206 yds, 6.9 y/a, 40 td, 21 int

Peyton (12 games)
- Record: 3-9 (.250)
- Combined stat line: 335-538 (62.3%), 3523 yds, 6.5 y/a, 16 td, 14 int,

Rodgers (7 games)
- Record: 2-5 (.286)
- Combined stat line: 191-308 (62.0%), 2298 yds, 7.5 y/a, 20 td, 6 int

Montana (3 games)
- Record: 1-2 (.333)
- Combined stat line: 81-138 (58.7%), 919 yds, 6.7 y/a, 4 td, 2 int

Brees (8 games)
- Record: 1-7 (.125)
- Combined stat line: 245-380 (64.5%), 2857 yds, 19 td, 7 int


So in games where these guys have had to carry their teams by throwing 40+ times in a playoff game...

Thomas Edward Patrick Brady: 14-8 (.636)
Peyton/Rodgers/Montana/Brees: 7-23 (.233)

Remarkable. (as are all these Brady facts)
Oh, so Brady was a system QB.

/ducks
 

SMU_Sox

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I think how we frame it is important. The Patriots have had success in situations where many teams don't. A lot of that is because of Brady. A lot of that is because of the rest of the team, the coaching, luck, situational football, etc. It is amazing they have the record they do in those games.

Here is an article about Kirk Cousins by fantastic author Arif Hasan that analyzes Kirk's ability in game settings. I love the way he does splits based on game script/situations. I don't know how to do that or have the time but seeing that kind of analysis is very revealing to me vs just wins and losses. Again though the time it would take to do it is... well he gets paid to do this, right? If there is an easy way to do this would be very cool.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think how we frame it is important. The Patriots have had success in situations where many teams don't. A lot of that is because of Brady. A lot of that is because of the rest of the team, the coaching, luck, situational football, etc. It is amazing they have the record they do in those games.
Right, it's not a 1-to-1 correlation any more than wins should be attributed to any single player. What was Matt Light's or Vince Wilfork's "record" in such games?
 

Deathofthebambino

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Right, it's not a 1-to-1 correlation any more than wins should be attributed to any single player. What was Matt Light's or Vince Wilfork's "record" in such games?
I can't tell if you're trolling here or not, but yeah, everybody knows that a QB literally can't play by themselves, but I think it's become pretty clear that teams don't win games without above average QB play, and almost never win Conference Championships or Super Bowls without it. Vince Wilfork non-Pats playing career was 25-39 without Tom Brady. Revis was 76-84. Rodney Harrison was 59-85.

I could probably run down, maybe 50 names, that would like just like this. Of course, BB and the culture and everything else goes into this too, but to argue that you can't attribute or give credit to Tom Brady for his team's wins and losses would be to ignore all of the evidence over a 22 year career. Tom Brady is great, Tom Brady makes his teammates better, Tom Brady is a great leader, Tom Brady is the best in any weather, Tom Brady is the best when the game is on the line and the stakes are the highest.

Over the course of those 22 years, there are what, maybe 10 games we can even point to in which it could be argued that Tom Brady was the reason his team lost a game? Super Bowl losses, playoff losses, etc. were some of the games in which Tom Brady played his best football.

If a pitcher goes 22-5 with a 3.00 ERA, and happens to have a great defense and an offense full of studs, are you going to poo poo the season that pitcher had? I just don't understand the argument here. A lot of QB's have had good defenses, and great skill position players and great coaches, and a few of them have even won super bowls here and there, but most of them have a 2-3 year stretch where their team is great, and then it falls apart, then they rebuild, then fall apart.

Tom Brady's teams had 22 years of straight excellence, and the only common bond between them was Tom Brady. The idea that Tom Brady should only get credit for what he did on the field, as the QB of the team, is so far removed from what he actually meant to these teams as to be dishonest. I mean, just listen to what guys like Ty Law say about Tom Brady, especially listen to what he starts talking about 4:20 into the video. That's leadership, and that's what we don't see, and that's why, IMO, Tom Brady ends up in 10 Super Bowls, with 7 wins, while a lot of other great QB's with all of the tools (I'm looking at you Aaron Rodgers) don't. It's worth watching to the end just to see take a shot at Max Kellerman.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4g6dJZzqU0
 

johnmd20

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Right, it's not a 1-to-1 correlation any more than wins should be attributed to any single player. What was Matt Light's or Vince Wilfork's "record" in such games?
I would submit that Light is 0-0 in games he's throw over 40 passes.

I would also submit that Wilfork is also 0-0 in games he's throw over 40 passes.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
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The Tampa 2022 schedule is brutal. And they do play the 49ers.

View attachment 50144
Because they are playing KC and Green Bay? Both games are at home.

Seattle sucks. Baltimore, at this point, is whatever.(when was the last time they won multiple playoff games in one season, the Flacco season?) The Saints suck, are in cap hell, and don't have a QB. Atlanta sucks worse and their best player is Jimmy the Greek. Carolina sucks worse than Atlanta. Double those three sentences because of the division. The Cardinals are ok. SF is pretty good but they can always be beaten. The Steelers are on a rebuild. The Browns are the Browns. The two wild cards are the Rams and the Bengals. Both teams can be beaten, both teams can win. But, again, both games are at home.

That isn't a brutal NFL schedule. Their hardest games are at home. And even if they lose all four of those games, which they invariably won't, they are still going to win at least 10 games. Probably closer to 11 or 12.
 

johnmd20

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To be clear, it's a very difficult schedule with both Super Bowl teams, both #1 seeds and 8 playoff teams.
View attachment 50158
Assuming nothing changes, sure. But teams change considerably from year to year. Super bowl losers often have horrific seasons after the SB. Even the winners are usually not the same, excluding the Pats with. . . .Tom Brady at QB. And KC with Mahomes making peanuts, which he's no longer making.

The schedule looks tough but TB is a great team, so playing them is tough. You don't think Cinncy and the Rams and Niners and the Ravens and others are looking at Tom Brady coming back and thinking anything but, "Fuck, I thought we were going against Blaine "The Pain" Gabbert. This sucks."