UFC/MMA in 2016

Infield Infidel

Infield Infidel

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
 
At 135. She shouldn't have to move for anyone. 
 
And there is no way, with pre / post fight blood and urine  testing, like they had for this fight, Cyborg makes 135. It aint gonna happen. 
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I agree, I don't think it'll happen, and I don't think she should have to move for anyone, but sometimes when a fighter wants a challenge after wiping out a division, they move up. BJ moved up to fight GSP, Jones and Aldo will almost certainly move up eventually. It's understandable at what, 28 y.o. that she wants to stay at 135, and it's understandable that the UFC doesn't want a 145 women's division right now, because they have a goldmine in Rousey at 135, and 145 is the weakest, most undeveloped division anywhere. It's mainly newcomers and former 135s who can't make the weight anymore. Half of the top 10 at 145 has 6 or fewer fights, and only three have 10 or more, including Coenen who used to fight at 135. (And, really, why develop a division yourself when Invicta's doing it already?) My hope is that they eventually do a TUF for 145, because there should theoretically be more power in that division, and everyone likes KOs. It's probably at least a couple years off though.
 
Rousey did say she'd fight Carano if she ever came back, and Carano last fought at 145, so who knows.  
 
kelpapa

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Reaching back for the head is the worst thing you can do in wrestling, and frowned upon in jiu jitsu for reasons like that. A white belt could have submitted her from that position.
 
Marciano490

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So how'd Rousey get her arm so quick? Can't anyone just like kick her and keep distance?
 
Marciano490

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Thanks for that.

Obviously a poor strategy, but props to RR for taking advantage.
 
Gunfighter 09

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
 
At 135. She shouldn't have to move for anyone. 
 
And there is no way, with pre / post fight blood and urine  testing, like they had for this fight, Cyborg makes 135. It aint gonna happen. 
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Just re-emphasizing, it aint happening as long as their is a serious effort at PED / Diuretic testing. 


 
Kliq

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I'm not the biggest fan of MMA, but personally I don't think Rousey being this dominant is really good for the sport. People keep comparing it to Tyson knocking out guys in the first round and how that got everyone excited for the next fight because the KO could happen at any time, but there is a huge difference. Tyson was doing that to fellow Heavyweight boxers, the most presitgous division in combat sports. Rousey is doing this in a pretty much unknown division, with a lack of qualified opponents. To me, it is much more like Russell and Chamberlain in the early days of the NBA. Two guys that figured how to elevate and protect the rim and just ran circles around the flat-footed Neil Johnston's of the world. Rousey is clearly  more advanced as a fighter than anybody else in her division, and because women's MMA is still in its infancy as a mainstream draw, it looks bad.
 
Like anything else, competition is the key to success. If their is only one, super-dominant competitor and everyone else is garbage, it hurts any form of sport.
 
Marciano490

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That and there's something more visceral about a knockout. Rousey is a bit of a one trick pony. It's a helluva trick, but nobody watches a fight hoping for an arm bar.
 
theapportioner

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It may not make for exciting visuals but having one dominant fighter can have benefits in expanding the brand to new audiences. Guys like Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell sort of did it, but Rousey is the UFC's best opportunity for a truly crossover star/media figure.
 
Marciano490

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theapportioner said:
It may not make for exciting visuals but having one dominant fighter can have benefits in expanding the brand to new audiences. Guys like Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell sort of did it, but Rousey is the UFC's best opportunity for a truly crossover star/media figure.
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They weren't blowing people out like Ronda though. And there was more competition in their division. For example, they fought each other. Twice.

RR will be a crossover star because she's talented, gorgeous, charismatic and ruthless, not because she's winning fights in 30 seconds.
 
Phragle

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
 
Just re-emphasizing, it aint happening as long as their is a serious effort at PED / Diuretic testing. 



 
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Maybe if she cut off her huge steroids head she could make 135.
 
Kliq said:
I'm not the biggest fan of MMA, but personally I don't think Rousey being this dominant is really good for the sport. People keep comparing it to Tyson knocking out guys in the first round and how that got everyone excited for the next fight because the KO could happen at any time, but there is a huge difference. Tyson was doing that to fellow Heavyweight boxers, the most presitgous division in combat sports. Rousey is doing this in a pretty much unknown division, with a lack of qualified opponents. To me, it is much more like Russell and Chamberlain in the early days of the NBA. Two guys that figured how to elevate and protect the rim and just ran circles around the flat-footed Neil Johnston's of the world. Rousey is clearly  more advanced as a fighter than anybody else in her division, and because women's MMA is still in its infancy as a mainstream draw, it looks bad.
 
Like anything else, competition is the key to success. If their is only one, super-dominant competitor and everyone else is garbage, it hurts any form of sport.
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Ronda is great for the sport. She is the sport's biggest star and quickly becoming one of the bigger stars in all of sports, but yeah, she needs a rival to really take the next step. I was hoping Tate beat her for that reason. She almost did actually. The women's divisions are still very raw and weak, but that won't last. Eventually someone will rival her. He striking is still pretty shitty. That's exploitable.
 
Also it's annoying that she's now doing some movie. A fight like that should result in a 4-6 week rematch.
 
Marciano490 said:
That and there's something more visceral about a knockout. Rousey is a bit of a one trick pony. It's a helluva trick, but nobody watches a fight hoping for an arm bar.
Click to expand...
 
Ben Askren weeps.
 
Gunfighter 09

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Marciano490 said:
That and there's something more visceral about a knockout. Rousey is a bit of a one trick pony. It's a helluva trick, but nobody watches a fight hoping for an arm bar.
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That is a matter of taste. I think the move on Saturday night was fucking ridiculous. We will see 1000 fighters get their lights put out in one punch or kick before we see someone make that kind of amazingly fast move to an arm lock again.  Of course, in terms of marketing, I imagine there are many more people whose taste matches yours rather than mine. 
 
Gunfighter 09

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Phragle said:
 
 
Ronda is great for the sport. She is the sport's biggest star and quickly becoming one of the bigger stars in all of sports, but yeah, she needs a rival to really take the next step. I was hoping Tate beat her for that reason. She almost did actually. T
 
 
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The sad news for Dana White is that I think Tate is the 2nd best fighter out there. I thought the stoppage in the Tate / Zingano fight was quick and that Tate won the first two rounds of that fight. Now Tate is resigned to essentially be Ronda's gate keeper, figuring out who might give the champ a show. 
 
theapportioner

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Marciano490 said:
They weren't blowing people out like Ronda though. And there was more competition in their division. For example, they fought each other. Twice.

RR will be a crossover star because she's talented, gorgeous, charismatic and ruthless, not because she's winning fights in 30 seconds.
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True, but she wouldn't be talked about as much if she came to the UFC and then lost 2-3 fights.
 
I think Gina Carano left mainly because once she lost to Cyborg, she realized she couldn't afford to ruin her celebrity brand by staying in MMA and risking further losses.
 
Kliq

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RR is very average looking. I don't see all the hubbub about her.
 
djbayko

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Kliq said:
RR is very average looking. I don't see all the hubbub about her.
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It's her attitude and the fact that she works hard and dominates at what she does. That is sexy. I also argue that her looks are well above average, while acknowledging that guys' thoughts on muscles can vary. But my point is, whatever you think of her from a purely physical standpoint, it's not just about that.
 
Marciano490

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Kliq said:
RR is very average looking. I don't see all the hubbub about her.
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It's an MMA thread, can we not bring "not hot, wouldn't bang" here? 
 
rembrat

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OH WE ARE GOING THERE.
 
What's wrong with average? I find average looking women with imperfections to be incredibly adorable and attractive and I think the mass populace agrees with me as well. Ronda has this thing, I don't know if its a crooked mouth or a habit of talking out the side of mouth that just does it for me. My heart melts. Plus she seems like a big dork.
 
What I'm describing is visible in the first minute of this video. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LniOgTmoejI
 
Marciano490

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I think she's one of the sexiest women alive, but, seriously, can we please be better than this or should we start talking about Connor McGregor's abs?
 
Marciano490

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rembrat said:
The discussion begins and ends with his beard. Sploosh.
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The prohibition haircut is pretty hot, too.  I've been trying to pull it off lately.
 
Kliq

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I get that attitude is a big part of it, but to satisfy Marciano and bring it back to MMA, the thing that really turns me off from the sport isn't the combat or the actual competition, but all the bullshit on the side. The contrived hatred of each other and the phony stare downs at the press conferences, all of that comes off as pathetic to me. For circumstances beyond my control, I witnessed a program on FS1 all about Tate/Rousey and how much they "really" didn't like each other. It just all feels so fake and scripted, that it gets away from the actual value in the sport because, in theory, pushing a fight as more than just a competition between two athletes but as a battle of pure hatred, is more likely to entice viewers to purchase the PPVs.
 
It isn't enough for UFC to have fighters that fans like, they need to have heroes and villains and guys (and girls) that people want to see win and people they want to see lose. And instead of organically letting the fans choose, to ensure that their is some form a drama heading into the fight, they have to do all these contrived interviews and faux twitter fights to get people to buy into it like it is pro wrestling. And I love pro wrestling, but the major difference between wrestling and MMA is that it is accepted in this day and age that wrestling is scripted and fake and that kayfabe is dead, so I can accept the obvious mock interviews and fake battles. However, MMA is a sport that prides itself on its authenticity, hence it being recognized as an actual sport, but then they lower themselves to these shenanigans. Also, part of the job description in being a pro wrestler is having charisma and being able to sell rivalires, while most (but not all) UFC fighters are fighters first and foremorst, that are not accustomed to cutting promos and acting.
 
Marciano490

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Interesting take.
 
Keep in mind though that this occurs in a lot of sports.  See our very own New England Patriots.
 
Also, whether these fighters actually hate each other is something we can only guess at.  I will say, though, that before a fight you do work up a lot of hatred and aggression toward whomever you'll be punching in the face shortly.  It's pretty effective motivation.  As for staredowns - well, again, it's a pretty intense scene.  Adrenaline is high, tension is high, aggression is high.  Certainly, some fighters turn it into theater, but there's a lot of realness there, too.
 
kelpapa

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Some of the most vile and reprehensible stuff I have ever spoken was muttered under my breathe about opponents before wrestling matches in high school. People psyche themselves up in different ways.
 
Kliq

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Marciano490 said:
Interesting take.
 
Keep in mind though that this occurs in a lot of sports.  See our very own New England Patriots.
 
Also, whether these fighters actually hate each other is something we can only guess at.  I will say, though, that before a fight you do work up a lot of hatred and aggression toward whomever you'll be punching in the face shortly.  It's pretty effective motivation.  As for staredowns - well, again, it's a pretty intense scene.  Adrenaline is high, tension is high, aggression is high.  Certainly, some fighters turn it into theater, but there's a lot of realness there, too.
Click to expand...
 
Certainly, I get that you psyche yourself up against your opponent to give yourself an edge, everyone in any competition does that. If it was just before the fight and entering the octagon and all that, I don't have a problem with it. However, what bugs me is the long, drawn out storylines of hatred that bugs me, with all the prefight interviews and TV specials highlighting their rivalry.
 
As an example, take a look at this GIF. Boxing is also extremely guilty of this, but I just can't stand shit like this "staredown." It is so clearly for the cameras, I think it takes away from the actual competition that is going to take place, for me at least, I'm sure other people enjoy it.
 
 
Marciano490

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How else do you expect the fights to be marketed?  And whether the staredown is for the camera or not, I'm telling you, those women are psyched to Hell standing 3 inches away from one another.  Plus, if you watch enough fights you can tell who has the mental edge when watching a staredown or a ring entrance.  It's handy for betting.
 
NickEsasky

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theapportioner said:
Speaking of showdowns, this scene happened a few days ago:
 
http://youtu.be/NBVhKKyLOZ0
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And Cormier chastised Rumble for acting like Jones' buddy at the press conference. It's just different strokes for different folks in these situations. It seems like if you are too intense and truly hate who you are fighting there is a chance to adrenaline dump at the beginning of a fight and gas out. I think Cormier should trust that Johnson knows what he is doing at this point.
 
Marciano490

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NickEsasky said:
And Cormier chastised Rumble for acting like Jones' buddy at the press conference. It's just different strokes for different folks in these situations. It seems like if you are too intense and truly hate who you are fighting there is a chance to adrenaline dump at the beginning of a fight and gas out. I think Cormier should trust that Johnson knows what he is doing at this point.
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I think I've told this story before, but it applies:
 
In the finals of the golden gloves, I was chilling in the Fall River PAL dungeon getting waiting for my match.  I was at 178, so I was the third to last fight.  During the hours down there, I was hanging out with a heavyweight fighter who was getting increasingly amped up.  Talking all sorts of smack about what he was going to do.  Flying off the rafters.  Chugging honey because that's what Hagler used to do.  One of the scariest dudes I've ever seen.  Anyways, after my fight I stuck around to watch him because I figured he'd steamroll the kid.
 
After about a minute, he's totally gassed.  Hands down, mouth open.  The other guy gets him against the rope.  He grabs the opponent's head, pulls it down and knees him.  This is a boxing match, remember.  Nobody knows what to do.  The ref sends them to their corners, talks to the judges, then continues the fight.  Thirty seconds later he does it again and gets DQ'ed.
 
After, I ask him what the hell he was thinking.  He told me he was so amped up he blacked out and thought he was in a street fight.
 
Marciano490

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Apparently Bovada has it at 25:1 that Rousey will fight a man at some point in her career.  I don't think it'll happen, but might be worth throwing $50 at.
 
rembrat

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Marciano490 said:
Apparently Bovada has it at 25:1 that Rousey will fight a man at some point in her career.  I don't think it'll happen, but might be worth throwing $50 at.
Click to expand...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCWuJk1F0YU
 
theapportioner

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I don't think it'll ever happen. Even if she wins or loses, it'd be a shot to the kneecaps to the legitimacy of the womens' divisions.
 
djbayko

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Marciano490 said:
Apparently Bovada has it at 25:1 that Rousey will fight a man at some point in her career.  I don't think it'll happen, but might be worth throwing $50 at.
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It might be harder to convince any man to take this fight than Ronda.  Wouldn't it be a no-win proposition for him?  Lose, and you're the only man to ever lose to a girl.  Win...great job, you beat a girl.  I'm not being sexist at all.  I love Ronda.  I'm being realistic about the opinions of a significant number of UFC fans and the prospective fighter's peers.
 
Edit: Imagine the viewership for this fight.  It would probably attract a lot of casual fans due to its cultural significance.
 
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djbayko said:
 
It might be harder to convince any man to take this fight than Ronda.  Wouldn't it be a no-win proposition for him?  Lose, and you're the only man to ever lose to a girl.  Win...great job, you beat a girl.  I'm not being sexist at all.  I love Ronda.  I'm being realistic about the opinions of a significant number of UFC fans and the prospective fighter's peers.
 
Edit: Imagine the viewership for this fight.  It would probably attract a lot of casual fans due to its cultural significance.
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Money talks.
 
Marciano490

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Pretty exciting card for UFC 185 on 3/14.  Dos Anjos v. Pettis should be incredible, but I think I'm most looking forward to Overeem v. Nelson.  I love Big Country, the latter day Tank Abbott.
 
rembrat

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Pundits thought she wouldn't draw? Whhhhat.
 
Any female who is physically active knows who Ronda Rousey is and has an opinion on her. And everyone is checking in to watch her fight.
 
theapportioner

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Overeem by unanimous decision. He hit Nelson with some hard knees and kicks -- impressed that Roy was able to absorb all that.
 
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