USMNT: Hold My Beer

Joe D Reid

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Three matches in 10 days isn’t really a problem physically. Players do three in 7-8 days all the time for their clubs, with a weekend league match, an important midweek match (often European play), then another match the following weekend.

In international soccer there is a tacit expectation (not always met) that you’re going to try to rotate some so you don’t work any one player too hard or increase their risk of injury. At the end of the day the clubs are the players’ employers, not the international associations. The clubs are allowing their very valuable employees to be effectively used for free by these other organizations. So there is some incentive not to damage the assets while you’re borrowing them if you want this arrangement to keep up. Although when national teams are desperate, they’ll overplay key players anyway.
This is broadly true, although in CONCACAF (or AFCON or AFC) the travel involved is often worse than Euro club and continental play.

And on the tennis v. soccer issue, it's actually an interesting question. A more-than-averagely active soccer player definitely runs more and with fewer rule-based switch-off periods. But the tennis players don't get any mental respites, because everything always rests solely on them--I think that 5-set Grand Slam play is one of the most intense athletic things you can do.

This is maybe a long way of saying that it is absolutely possible to play all 3 games in a CONCACAF window like this, but maybe not realistic to expect any but the Nadal types to play at the top of their potential in all 3.
 

koufax32

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It would ensure we finish ahead of Panama, but to clinch top 3 I think Costa Rica would need to drop points, too.
Yeah, you’re right. Looks like our magic number is four points, assuming GD doesn’t flip between now and the end.
 

Titans Bastard

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One other factor is that in tennis, players have always played the same number of matches as their opponent as they progress through the tournament, so if they start to get physically worn down as the week progresses, their opponents are facing the same struggles.

Soccer is a team sport. You can start different players in different games. As a result, there's a strategy — the best players might not perform as the best players if they are running at 80% in the third game and their lesser opponents have rotated and are at 100%. It's relative.
 

Merkle's Boner

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So will we see Acosta and Adams playing together at some point? I thought Acosta and his deliveries were fantastic, and I know they both tend to play a similar role, so I’m wondering what those who follow the USMNT more closely think about that. Is a midfield of Weston, Acosta, Tyler, and Musah(?) a possibility?
 

Jimy Hendrix

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So will we see Acosta and Adams playing together at some point? I thought Acosta and his deliveries were fantastic, and I know they both tend to play a similar role, so I’m wondering what those who follow the USMNT more closely think about that. Is a midfield of Weston, Acosta, Tyler, and Musah(?) a possibility?
Probably not, for a few reasons

- As you mentioned, they generally both play the 6. Acosta can play the 8, but he's been a lot less consistent in that role and is less effective in it than Musah (and probably de La Torre)
- To get a fourth midfielder in the mix we'd need to sacrifice an attacker, which seems like an unlikely fit for our overall personnel group.

You're dead on that his set piece delivery is an absolute weapon. We need someone to do if not that good a job when he's not in, at least better than what we got from Pulisic this window. Good candidates there are probably Reyna if healthy, or Pulisic on better form.
 

rguilmar

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Adding Reyna back into the mix will be interesting. I know assuming full health is foolhardy and Reyna will need to work himself back into fitness, but one of Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, Musah, or McKennie will be not be starting. Champagne problems for sure. Assuming McKennie is a lock, CP rights the ship a bit, and Weah continues his USMNT form, I would like to explore Reyna at the 8 with Musah coming off of the bench. I know I've been quietly banging this drum for a bit, but Dortmund had been playing Reyna centrally before his injury and I think that his skill set is better used there. McKennie and Reyna as dual 8s are pretty complementary, but the result would be that Weston would likely need to be less adventurous in the attacking third. Perhaps I'm just higher on Reyna than others, but I do think people forget just how good he is.

I don't see Acosta as a starter on a full strength squad. He did fine last night (my MotM) but he is generally inconsistent. Several people mentioned it earlier, but really hard to draw any meaningful conclusions from the game last night, and this includes de la Torre's performance, who looked great as well. I think LDLT was Gregg's MotM. Pulisic has delivered great free kicks in the past (see the Nations League final) and Reyna does take them for Dortmund when he actually plays for them. For now, Acosta is the backup to Adams and I wouldn't look for more.

A couple of things continue to bug me about this team. First there is a lack of team identity, like we don't have a way we play. Canada, El Salvador, Mexico, Panama, and Costa Rica certainly have identities where you know what you will get from them game in, game out (to say nothing of Brazil, Italy, Spain, France and so on). We don't a style that we play, which previous USMNTs definitely did have. Second, the US continues to have trouble creating chances from open play. The attack is so easy to defend. The US will push the ball up the field, send it out wide to wingers/fullbacks, and eventually a cross will come in- likely a poor one unless it's from Weah. Rinse and repeat over and over again. The team needs more avenues for creating chances, like the one Acosta set up for Weah early in the game.
 

Kliq

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As ridiculous as it was; the St. Paul game feels like it was a big success. No significant injuries, and they easily beat a team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere else but St. Paul.
 

67YAZ

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It was a success, but I’m worried that this will give the USSF the notion that more games should be held in Arctic conditions. It was a stupid plan and we’re lucky no one was seriously injured on either side.

Hopefully, no one scheduling matches for the 2030 cycle will remember this.
 

rguilmar

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It was a success, but I’m worried that this will give the USSF the notion that more games should be held in Arctic conditions. It was a stupid plan and we’re lucky no one was seriously injured on either side.

Hopefully, no one scheduling matches for the 2030 cycle will remember this.
Sure, though two Honduras players reported hypothermia at halftime. Honduras has every right to be livid as the conditions went into a dangerous territory. Tim Weah joked that he would retire before playing in those conditions again. These three games were the three coldest ever played by the USMNT and last night was among the coldest, if not the coldest, soccer game ever played at the international level. This whole thing is ridiculous. I get trying to get as much of an advantage as you can, but this crossed into the absurd. The fact that new equipment needed to be approved by the federation and reviewed by the referees prior to the game indicates that this game should not have taken place.

I know a lot is made of some nations getting an advantage from their home stadium locations at altitude, specifically Bolivia and Mexico, but that is apples and oranges. Keep in mind that they play in consistent locations and don't move around like the US does, and that these stadiums are in their respective capital cities of La Paz and Mexico City. No offense to the good people of the twin cities, but St. Paul/Minneapolis is just another American metropolis. If they're gonna pull this shit, at least put the game in New York.
 

Kliq

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Sure, though two Honduras players reported hypothermia at halftime. Honduras has every right to be livid as the conditions went into a dangerous territory. Tim Weah joked that he would retire before playing in those conditions again. These three games were the three coldest ever played by the USMNT and last night was among the coldest, if not the coldest, soccer game ever played at the international level. This whole thing is ridiculous. I get trying to get as much of an advantage as you can, but this crossed into the absurd. The fact that new equipment needed to be approved by the federation and reviewed by the referees prior to the game indicates that this game should not have taken place.

I know a lot is made of some nations getting an advantage from their home stadium locations at altitude, specifically Bolivia and Mexico, but that is apples and oranges. Keep in mind that they play in consistent locations and don't move around like the US does, and that these stadiums are in their respective capital cities of La Paz and Mexico City. No offense to the good people of the twin cities, but St. Paul/Minneapolis is just another American metropolis. If they're gonna pull this shit, at least put the game in New York.
I don't think the games in Columbus or Hamilton were too outrageous; obviously dipping into the single digits in St. Paul is a different story. I think moving forward, if they are going to book games in the Northern cities in the winter time, they should look at making sure a back-up venue is available in case the temperatures are crazy cold. I think it's smart to gain an advantage in 30 degree weather and I'd like to try and continue that.
 

Senator Donut

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Honduras scheduled its 2017 home hex match for a daytime start on a weekday afternoon, obviously looking to use the weather as an advantage, so I don't have any issues turning it around on them, but single digits is an absurd temperature for any outdoor activity and was painfully foreseeable when the match was scheduled. Same goes for Canada playing winter matches in Edmonton.
 

rguilmar

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I don't think the games in Columbus or Hamilton were too outrageous; obviously dipping into the single digits in St. Paul is a different story. I think moving forward, if they are going to book games in the Northern cities in the winter time, they should look at making sure a back-up venue is available in case the temperatures are crazy cold. I think it's smart to gain an advantage in 30 degree weather and I'd like to try and continue that.
Honduras scheduled its 2017 home hex match for a daytime start on a weekday afternoon, obviously looking to use the weather as an advantage, so I don't have any issues turning it around on them, but single digits is an absurd temperature for any outdoor activity and was painfully foreseeable when the match was scheduled. Same goes for Canada playing winter matches in Edmonton.
I'm sorry dude, there is a huge difference between playing St. Paul versus, say Orlando (where the next home qualifier is), and starting a game at noon versus six pm. They're not even in the same stratosphere. Honduras isn't picking a completely different climate because they're playing against the US. At the same time, not only did the US choose to play in St. Paul, but the game was played at night when the frigid city would be even frigid-er.

Just three more points then I'll drop it as it's pretty clear where I stand on this:
1. Nobody else aside from Canada really switches, rotates or changes stadiums. Most countries, not just in Concacaf but in the world, have a national stadium where they play most or all of their home games. I'm sure that there are others but the US is definitely in the minority. These other countries don't pick the location based on the opponent. We know in 2030 that we will play away our away qualifier in Honduras in San Pedro Sula (barring renovations or the building of a new national stadium) whether the game is in February or July. Mexico will be at Azteca and so on. They don't pick a different spot because they're playing the US. I vaguely remember maybe Costa Rica picking a spot in the jungle to play the US, but that is the exception not the rule. I would say that our ability to change location based on conditions and opponent (cuz we were not going to play Canada in St. Paul) is a distinct advantage. I'm not necessarily saying the US should just give up this advantage, but we don't have to be dicks about it either.
2. Anytime two teams have a large talent gap, the more talented team wants fewer variables at play because these variables can add uncertainty into the game. Weather is a massive variable that can impact on the game. A cold field can impact footing, bounces etc (even if it is heated, players were slipping around last night). A cold ball can impact how it travels. We will never know, but that short goal kick by Turner that lead to the first Canada goal could have been the result of a hard, cold ball. If you plan to dominate the ball like the US does, then why add these uncertainties that will impact the US more than the opponent? Now, of course fan noise is another variable, but I would argue that weather conditions will do more to impact a game than a few thousand more opposition fans, especially for players who play in Clasicos, Old Firms, West London Derbies, Der Klassikers, Revierderbies and so on. That's not even taking into account the increased injury risk. It just seems like a poorly thought out idea.
3. Even if it is so true that the US gains an advantage playing in these colder temps, then can anyone explain why the final home qualifier against Panama is in Orlando? It's an absolute must-win game. If it's such a big deal to prevent fans from the opponent country from going and to make it uncomfortable for the opposing players, then why is this game not in Denver, Columbus, Cincy, St. Paul or wherever else is cold and doesn't have a large central American population (that last part might not be true of Denver, unsure about demographics)? It doesn't make sense.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Maybe the game is in Orlando because the USA beat Panama very handily there last cycle in a must-win game? Could it be as simple as that?

That doesn't answer why it was there last time though.
 

Kliq

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I'm sorry dude, there is a huge difference between playing St. Paul versus, say Orlando (where the next home qualifier is), and starting a game at noon versus six pm. They're not even in the same stratosphere. Honduras isn't picking a completely different climate because they're playing against the US. At the same time, not only did the US choose to play in St. Paul, but the game was played at night when the frigid city would be even frigid-er.

Just three more points then I'll drop it as it's pretty clear where I stand on this:
1. Nobody else aside from Canada really switches, rotates or changes stadiums. Most countries, not just in Concacaf but in the world, have a national stadium where they play most or all of their home games. I'm sure that there are others but the US is definitely in the minority. These other countries don't pick the location based on the opponent. We know in 2030 that we will play away our away qualifier in Honduras in San Pedro Sula (barring renovations or the building of a new national stadium) whether the game is in February or July. Mexico will be at Azteca and so on. They don't pick a different spot because they're playing the US. I vaguely remember maybe Costa Rica picking a spot in the jungle to play the US, but that is the exception not the rule. I would say that our ability to change location based on conditions and opponent (cuz we were not going to play Canada in St. Paul) is a distinct advantage. I'm not necessarily saying the US should just give up this advantage, but we don't have to be dicks about it either.
2. Anytime two teams have a large talent gap, the more talented team wants fewer variables at play because these variables can add uncertainty into the game. Weather is a massive variable that can impact on the game. A cold field can impact footing, bounces etc (even if it is heated, players were slipping around last night). A cold ball can impact how it travels. We will never know, but that short goal kick by Turner that lead to the first Canada goal could have been the result of a hard, cold ball. If you plan to dominate the ball like the US does, then why add these uncertainties that will impact the US more than the opponent? Now, of course fan noise is another variable, but I would argue that weather conditions will do more to impact a game than a few thousand more opposition fans, especially for players who play in Clasicos, Old Firms, West London Derbies, Der Klassikers, Revierderbies and so on. That's not even taking into account the increased injury risk. It just seems like a poorly thought out idea.
3. Even if it is so true that the US gains an advantage playing in these colder temps, then can anyone explain why the final home qualifier against Panama is in Orlando? It's an absolute must-win game. If it's such a big deal to prevent fans from the opponent country from going and to make it uncomfortable for the opposing players, then why is this game not in Denver, Columbus, Cincy, St. Paul or wherever else is cold and doesn't have a large central American population (that last part might not be true of Denver, unsure about demographics)? It doesn't make sense.
I agree with your second point.

Your first point is disingenuous. The US plays games in different locations because they can. If you want to compare the stadium infrastructures of the US and Honduras, as well as the size of the population distribution, be my guess. The US has a million different world class stadiums and a ton of different major metro areas to service with games. They are going to spread it around. Mexico obviously thinks it has an advantage playing in Azteca, but Canada spreads games around for the same reason the US does. Germany and some other large European countries do this as well.

The Panama game is in the spring. Obviously it will be colder in Minnesota than Orlando, but you probably aren't getting nearly the advantage as you got for a game in early February.
 

rguilmar

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I agree with your second point.

Your first point is disingenuous. The US plays games in different locations because they can. If you want to compare the stadium infrastructures of the US and Honduras, as well as the size of the population distribution, be my guess. The US has a million different world class stadiums and a ton of different major metro areas to service with games. They are going to spread it around. Mexico obviously thinks it has an advantage playing in Azteca, but Canada spreads games around for the same reason the US does. Germany and some other large European countries do this as well.

The Panama game is in the spring. Obviously it will be colder in Minnesota than Orlando, but you probably aren't getting nearly the advantage as you got for a game in early February.
These are legitimate points. I think Germany usually rotates among three locations, Spain occasionally uses a second location and so on. Not quite what the US does and not with the variety of temps but these countries are not as diverse in terms of climate nor as geographically large. Your point is a good one though, and the differences I am sure will be magnified by the necessity for technology at the stadiums going forward.

Maybe the game is in Orlando because the USA beat Panama very handily there last cycle in a must-win game? Could it be as simple as that?

That doesn't answer why it was there last time though.
Others brought it up when the location was announced, but there is some seriously bad juju with this logic as we all know what happened next. But doesn't that also back up my point? Why risk injury and fluke conditions when you can play in a warm location and whoop up on an inferior team?

For me, I don't see any real advantage gained by playing in cold weather, only risk of injury and the invitation that the conditions hurt us more than the additional fan support helps. Weather conditions matter. Hell, even during the loss in Cueva the wet condition of the field was brought up as a reason for the poor US performance (comically with US players trying to cross the puddles). Plus I think it's beneath anyone who wants to be a regional soccer power to try to gain a marginal advantage (even though I don't think it exists) over an inferior foe who (in the case of Honduras) can't do the same to back to us. Just because we can select a place with extreme weather doesn't mean we should.

All of that being said, the US won and nobody got hurt, so defenders of the choice can always fall back on those facts. I'm happy to move on to arguing about Gregg's definition of "dominant" or the proper time to take a selfie in a blowout or anything else.
 

wonderland

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I imagine travel comes into the decision making too. Two northern us cities to pair with the Canada trip. In March, it’s a trip to Mexico and Costa Rica so use Orlando as the closer spot for the European players. I know these guys are traveling in nice accommodations but saving some time in the air is beneficial.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I imagine travel comes into the decision making too. Two northern us cities to pair with the Canada trip. In March, it’s a trip to Mexico and Costa Rica so use Orlando as the closer spot for the European players. I know these guys are traveling in nice accommodations but saving some time in the air is beneficial.
This sounds pretty on the nose. I bet that’s exactly it with these three game pods.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
I don't have a subscription, but Wondo was the perfect example of how to handle it. Half the country was ready to kill him after he blew the chance to beat Belgium, until he made a post where he said he felt horrible and knows he let the teams and the fans down. Instantly the reaction flipped 180 degrees and everyone was telling him that he was a good guy and they know he did his best.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Well, the Wondo section wasn't quite that positive. Here are a couple of quotes from the story:

“I know Gyasi well,” Wondolowski said. “I know his work ethic, the time and hours, the blood, sweat and tears he’s put in. It goes so far beyond just the time you see when he’s on the field. I do think he has become a lightning rod. It’s tough, because once you become a lightning rod, that doesn’t really change even when you do produce. … One time you’re great and the next time you’re the worst. That’s just kind of how society views things right now, just to the extremes. It’s never ‘oh, he’s pretty good.’”

Considering where he’s at and everything he’s gone through to reach a healthier mindset, I was curious whether he ever reached out to anybody like Zardes to give advice. Wondolowski sounded surprised at the idea that his cautionary tale really had any positives to offer.

“I mean, when I say that I’ve gotten through it and gotten better, I’ve minimally gotten better since those two years, but in no way I have mastered it,” Wondolowski said. “I haven’t even come close to mastering it to the point that I can give advice to others. Each person copes in different ways. I definitely did not cope with it well. It was not and still is not taken care of by any means.”
 

Titans Bastard

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Side note: shooting a ball exactly when it starts to rise off a bounce is hard. I've seen references to Wondo's miss as a "sitter", which IMO is flat-out wrong.
 

DJnVa

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Hot take!!!: The right move, but hard to do in the moment, was to square it over to Dempsey, for a tap-in.
Dempsey is like 2 feet away from him--it's gonna be hard to kill that ball right where Dempsey is.

FWIW, Wondolowski won a header to keep possession of that ball about 10 seconds before the miss.
 

speedracer

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A minor contribution, but Wondo also teed up Dempsey perfectly on the ET free kick, but Dempsey took a heavy touch and then slammed the ball right into the onrushing Courtois when mayyyyyyyyyyyybe Dempsey could have gone around. Sigh
 

Silverdude2167

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A minor contribution, but Wondo also teed up Dempsey perfectly on the ET free kick, but Dempsey took a heavy touch and then slammed the ball right into the onrushing Courtois when mayyyyyyyyyyyybe Dempsey could have gone around. Sigh
That was the best set piece I have ever seen, but the ball to Dempsey was hit so hard.

Also Wando missed that "sitter", but I think the line judge had his flag up for some reason. Imagine if he scores there and then it's disallowed for some bullshit offsides or something, like Dempsey's goal vs Algeria that was incorrectly disallowed.
 

allstonite

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Reyna went off in tears about 30 minutes into his return to the starting lineup. Doesn’t look good but fingers crossed it was just a tweak. I feel awful for him
 

67YAZ

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Long term injuries are as much mental as they are physical. Look at Mal Pugh, who lost 16-18 months before getting back to full speed just this past fall. Young players really need strong coaching & support to regain trust in their bodies. Luckily, Gio has family who understand this and a staff at Dortmund who are expert in coaching up young players.

Edit: Forgot to add this insane story about US skier Carly Marguiles, who has had 7 knee surgeries, including 4 ACL tears, since 2013. And she finished in the top12 in last week’s half pipe final
 
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Jed Zeppelin

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For the first time I am thankful for Qatar. Would have been tight to not just be healthy but actually fit for the usual early summer Cup. The extra months leave some hope at least. But, yeah, fuck.
 

67YAZ

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Shit man.

the spotlight falls on Musah next month. He’s in no way a McKennie replacement, but his work rate and ability to control tempo with his dribbles will become a key feature in the midfield.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Sucks in that he’s been in the best form of his life for club and country.

Hopefully can be at least somewhat counter-balanced by a Reyna return and/or the return to form that Pulisic looks like he might be threatening for his club.
 

rguilmar

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It sucks losing WM not just because of his talent and form, but also his tenacity. He’s the heart of this team to me, and it shows when he’s not in the lineup. It just feels like he is the guy who wills the US to win.
Looking ahead, really curious as to how Gregg approaches the midfield this window. It looks like he really rates Busio. Would he try de la Torre alongside Musah? Aaronson at the 8? Didn’t work so well in ES, but he does play more centrally for his club and having Musah at the other 8 should allow him to play sorta like he does in Austria. If healthy, give Reyna a shot at the 8? It’s my pipe dream and Reyna might not even be available.
Adams’ card situation complicates things. If I remember correctly, a yellow still would force him to miss a game. I’d hate to not have him and Weston out against either Panama or CR (if it comes to needing a point).
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I’d like to see LDLT take that spot or to move to a 4-2-3-1 to get Pulisic, Reyna/Aaronson and Weah on the field at the same time.

Second thing won’t happen though, I think it’ll just be Busio, Acosta or LDLT as next man up.
 

tmracht

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Losing him sucks, but if you get an inform Pulisic you still have a decent chance in this window. As much as Wes has been a crazy driver. Mexico Pulisic is just as impactful in different ways. But need him to maintain form the next month.
 

rguilmar

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Losing him sucks, but if you get an inform Pulisic you still have a decent chance in this window. As much as Wes has been a crazy driver. Mexico Pulisic is just as impactful in different ways. But need him to maintain form the next month.
I think it comes down to the drop off from McKennie to whoever replaces him. Busio has clearly improved but gets pushed around in CONCACAF. I’m not really sold that he advances the ball effectively at this point. LDLT is unproved against real competition. Reyna is hurt and hasn’t played the 8 for Gregg. Then you’re looking at Lletget, Acosta (as an 8) and Roldan. Mexico Pulisic came off the bench and the US was dominant without him. Aaronson has shown he can be an adequate replacement where no CM has done as much. Honestly, between good McKennie or hood Pulisic, and I can only have one, I’m picking Weston. He is my favorite USMNT player since at least Dempsey, so I’m biased though.
 

tmracht

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I think that's fair in many ways Wes is probably the best player in the pool. But good Pulisic is a terror in ways Aaronson and Wear aren't but yet they're good as well. MMA becoming Musah Luca and Acosta if Adams gets a yellow is terrifying. Which is why I think they need good Pulisic to have a solid chance. If not you're really hoping one of the other front men can make up for a shaky midfield.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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No detail at all in the story so make of it what you will. Football.london is kind of crap in general but the journalist (Chris Wheatley) is their Arsenal-specific reporter and has broken Arsenal-related stories before.

Balogun still really needs to improve a number of aspects of his game. He really needs this loan spell at Boro and probably will go on loan again next year either in the Championship or, perhaps, in the Premier League this time. Where he would fit into the USMNT picture if he declared his allegiance is unclear to me.

View: https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1499823158135857159
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Right now the USMNT striker depth chart is 5 - 10 guys in lower tier Euro leagues, bad teams in top 5 leagues and MLS and none of them are doing all that well and your guess is as good as mine which might come good. Balogun slots into the lower end of that clump, and the more guys we have there the better odds that one of them breaks out before November to truly seize that 9 spot.
 

Kliq

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Right now the USMNT striker depth chart is 5 - 10 guys in lower tier Euro leagues, bad teams in top 5 leagues and MLS and none of them are doing all that well and your guess is as good as mine which might come good. Balogun slots into the lower end of that clump, and the more guys we have there the better odds that one of them breaks out before November to truly seize that 9 spot.
He is in a lower league, but Pefok is having a very good season at Young Boys. He leads the league with 15 goals over 23 games in league play, and he added two goals in UCL play (one being the winner against Man United).