USMNT: To Rüssia With Love
- Thread starter Titans Bastard
- Start date
Green - Altidore (c) - Gyau
Diskerud - Corona - Bedoya
Chandler - Brooks - Orozco - Johnson
Guzan
Wow. I expect that midfield to get torn to shreds defensively. I'm surprised Morales didn't get the nod at DM. I'm also not sure why JK likes Chandler on the left and Johnson on the right instead of the other way around.
Should be fun to see how Green and Gyau do.
Available subs:
GK Rimando
GK Cropper
CB/LB Ream
LB Garza
DM Morales
CM Hyndman
AM Shea
FW Rubin
FW Wood
FW Morris
GK Rimando
GK Cropper
CB/LB Ream
LB Garza
DM Morales
CM Hyndman
AM Shea
FW Rubin
FW Wood
FW Morris
John Anthony Brooks plays with a lot of confidence, maybe too much at times. Gyau has been very impressive and looks comfortable with the ball at his feet. Good speed and strength. Jozy is holding the ball pretty well. Solid half by Bedoya and Fab Johnson, who didn't see enough of the ball for my liking.
On the downside, Green looks pretty rough and needs to be a lot stronger on the ball. Or at least send one decent corner in four chances. The only real chance for the Czechs came on a horrendous turnover by him in the midfield. Not going to be all sunshine and roses at age 19, obviously, but that's why you put him in the lineup to figure this stuff out. Not impressed by Corona.
Goal was spoonfed to Bedoya but he made it count, and Mix did just well enough to make Cech work hard enough on the first save to force a rebound. All around it was a strong half.
On the downside, Green looks pretty rough and needs to be a lot stronger on the ball. Or at least send one decent corner in four chances. The only real chance for the Czechs came on a horrendous turnover by him in the midfield. Not going to be all sunshine and roses at age 19, obviously, but that's why you put him in the lineup to figure this stuff out. Not impressed by Corona.
Goal was spoonfed to Bedoya but he made it count, and Mix did just well enough to make Cech work hard enough on the first save to force a rebound. All around it was a strong half.
soxfan121 said:
I'll say it. I think Green will be a good player, but I don't think he'll ever be Bayern-caliber.
The kiddies hang on to steal the win. The Czechs were certainly helped in the 2nd half by the full squad subs that removed all of our experience in between Jozy and Rimando.
Johnson was great, as usual. Easy to dream on a D with Fab and Yedlin flying up the wings.
Johnson was great, as usual. Easy to dream on a D with Fab and Yedlin flying up the wings.
soxfan121 said:
theapportioner said:
If you guys keep being mean to me, I'm going to have no choice but to run off to Cambodia for a few months.
I missed the match due to a crazy day at work.
Any observations on the young'uns we haven't seen much of (e.g. Gyau, Hyndman, Rubin, Wood, Ream etc..)?
Any observations on the young'uns we haven't seen much of (e.g. Gyau, Hyndman, Rubin, Wood, Ream etc..)?
Quintanariffic said:
Gyau was good in the 1st half. Strong on the ball and put himself in position to be dangerous from the wing, but never quite found the right cross or final pass. Made some runs off the ball to sneak behind the D but they couldn't slip anything through. Played the full 90 and likely tired a bit, although the 2nd half was dicey all around. Some lapses on the ball and tracking back on D.
In limited minutes, Hyndman looked pretty good in possession aside from one ghastly unforced turnover. Nothing flashy but looked comfortable on the ball.
Things were pretty frantic in the 18 after the wholesale subs (JK used all 6). Ream was okay but at this point he's probably little more than depth anyway. Garza looked a little lost in his first cap but the inexperienced 2nd half MF (and Brek) likely did them no favors.
JK says the Semi's are the goal for Russia 2018. I like what he is doing with the team/pool.
A very young US team just beat the Czechs and even though the result means nothing and they probably deserved to lose based on the second half, I feel like the win means something for a reason I can not put my finger on.
I feel like there is a real possibility of a USA team not showing to much "Respect" to the bigger European sides, like we saw against Germany and Belgium.
A very young US team just beat the Czechs and even though the result means nothing and they probably deserved to lose based on the second half, I feel like the win means something for a reason I can not put my finger on.
I feel like there is a real possibility of a USA team not showing to much "Respect" to the bigger European sides, like we saw against Germany and Belgium.
That would be amazing seeing as the US has never advanced passed the group stage in any WC in Europe. That's the next "hump" in my mind:
2010: win a winnable group
2014: consecutive trips to the second round
2018: advance to second round in Europe
2010: win a winnable group
2014: consecutive trips to the second round
2018: advance to second round in Europe
Infield Infidel said:
What is it about "Europe"? Just that they haven't done it there? They haven't gotten past the group stage in North America, either.
Seems like aiming low. Second round is where the team is. Next step is beyond second round, geography be damned.
They made it passed the group stage in US 1994. . . .
Italy 90, France 98, Germany 06, they failed to get out of the group stage, the latter two were utter disappointments, dead last in 98, and failing to get out of the group in 06 after making the quarters in 2002. European teams generally play up in World Cups in Europe, so it's a tougher road to hoe.
Italy 90, France 98, Germany 06, they failed to get out of the group stage, the latter two were utter disappointments, dead last in 98, and failing to get out of the group in 06 after making the quarters in 2002. European teams generally play up in World Cups in Europe, so it's a tougher road to hoe.
I am still bitter about the disallowed goal vs. Italy because of a player in an offside position. That team had potential and did not get any breaks, but did not make any breaks for themselves either.Infield Infidel said:
US group stage record (W-D-L) World Cups since 1990
In Europe: 0-1-8
Elsewhere: 4-5-3
Against European Teams
In Europe: 0-1-6
Elsewhere: 1-4-3
It's crazy. We've advanced to the second round in every World Cup outside of Europe, and none of the World Cups in Europe. It is unequivocally our kryptonite.
In Europe: 0-1-8
Elsewhere: 4-5-3
Against European Teams
In Europe: 0-1-6
Elsewhere: 1-4-3
It's crazy. We've advanced to the second round in every World Cup outside of Europe, and none of the World Cups in Europe. It is unequivocally our kryptonite.
Infield Infidel said:
Can we consider Russia as part of Asia, since the majority of their land mass is in Asia?
Infield Infidel said:
I don't think our lack of success in European world cups is very meaningful. It's obviously a very small sample size. And it makes no sense to use the 1990 team's results as a reference point for today's team, that team has nothing in common with the current team.
Getting out of the group should always be our realistic goal until the talent level gets significantly better. Expecting to make the quarters implies that you are one of the best 8 teams in the tournament. We simply don't have the quality to consistently be a Top 8 team (yet), we are comfortably in the third tier of teams in the 10-20ish range. Now, we could make the quarters if the draw breaks right and we spring some upsets (like Costa Rica this year, or us in 2002), but it's not a likely outcome and shouldn't be used as the barometer of success.
It is a small sample size, but I included 1990 since it balances 1994 which was in the US. For me you either gotta take them both, or leave them both out, which would further reduce the sample size.
It's not just us, there have only been three non-European teams in the quarters of the last three WCs in Europe: Brazil twice, Argentina thrice, Cameroon once.
European teams play up, and given that 13/32 teams are European, that's a hurdle to jump.
It's not just us, there have only been three non-European teams in the quarters of the last three WCs in Europe: Brazil twice, Argentina thrice, Cameroon once.
European teams play up, and given that 13/32 teams are European, that's a hurdle to jump.
Silverdude2167 said:
Like Kazakhstan, Turkey, and Israel, they are located mainly in Asia, but are part of UEFA (Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia as well). In soccer terms there is no geographic controversy. They are European teams, because they are in UEFA.
This would make Australia an Asian team as well, soccer wise that is.
All but one of the Russian venues are west of the Urals, which is the dividing line between European and Asian Russia. So all but one venue is in Europe, and Yekaterinburg is just over the other side.
These geographic distinctions were once more powerful - back when international leagues weren't so globalized. For instance European players rarely encountered South American styles, and vice-versa, until international competition. With the element of tactical and athletic surprise in play, the home field environment played a more influential role. Now, when Americans, Englishmen, Brazilians, Italians, Colombians, French, Spanish, Japanese, etc. all migrate to the best leagues and play with each other all the time, that element of surprise is largely gone. The home field / home continent still has significance, but not to the extent it did before. Witness Germany crushing Brazil at home and winning the cup in South American - something (a European team winning in SA) which had never happened before. Before 2014, it was no European team could win outside of Europe, but Spain took care of that. I have no doubt a South American team could win a Russian World Cup in modern times – so I'd extend that logic out and say the US won't have "legacy issues" vis-a-vis achieving in 2018. (They may have quality issues, coaching issues, draw issues, travel issues - to name a few - but those won't be exacerbated because it's Europe vs. anywhere else).
The other thing is that regardless of history, USA Soccer would have a hard time selling the idea that "second round in Europe" to a the casual fan. I'm a dumb fan who follows this stuff and my immediate reaction was "fuck that, who gives a shit if its Europe? we can win this thing!" It might be ignorant of history but fringe fans of the team/sport would react as incredulously. (in fact, I kinda want to send Felger the "best we can do is second round" thing and listen to him rant about soccer)
Like it or not, realistic or not, respective of history or not...the expectations are higher than "make it out of the group". Gotta be.*
*I reserve the right to change my mind in four years when we draw Russia, Germany and ColOmbia.
Like it or not, realistic or not, respective of history or not...the expectations are higher than "make it out of the group". Gotta be.*
*I reserve the right to change my mind in four years when we draw Russia, Germany and ColOmbia.
dirtynine said:
That they were more powerful doesn't mean that they still don't have an impact.
First, I think Spain and Germany winning outside of Europe shows those two teams were better outside of Europe than before. But it doesn't show anything about how the other European teams played, or how non-Europe teams will play in Europe. First, Spain and Germany have many players that played together on elite teams, Spain with Barca/Madrid, and Germany with Bayern/Dortmund, and a couple others on Madrid as well for a stretch. Familiarity on elite club teams means more than anything. Those two squads are outliers
In South Africa and Brazil, European teams on the whole did poorer
Euro teams in 2nd Round:
France 98: 10
Japan/SK 02: 9
Germany 06: 10
S. Africa 10: 6
Brazil 14: 6
Euro teams in quarterfinals:
France 98: 7
Japan/SK 02: 4
Germany 06: 6
S. Africa 10: 3
Brazil 14: 4
The other aspect is the numbers game. With 13 European teams, they can overwhelm the competition. They have more opportunities to have a few teams getting hotter because they are close to home, like Ukraine and England in 2006, or Croatia and Denmark in 1998
edit: used list form for more clarity
soxfan121 said:
I agree, I don't view it as an ultimate goal, more as another "never" to strike off the board.
Another win for the U-20s, over Racing Club.
USA: 1-Santiago Castaño; 3-John Requejo Jr. (18-Chase Gasper, 46), 5-Erik Palmer-Brown (19-Conor Donovan, 62), 4-Matt Miazga, 2-Shaquell Moore (16-Luis Martir, 46); 6-Russell Canouse, 8-Fernando Arce (14-Junior Flores, 46), 10-Joel Soñora (15-Luis Felipe, 67); 11-Zach Pfeffer, 9-Romain Gall, 7-Paul Arriola (13-Bradford Jamieson, 46)
I wish some of these games were televised. Soñora, for example, was intriguing with the U17s and is in Boca Juniors' academy, but it's impossible to say how he's progressed.
Next up Defensa y Justicia reserves on Saturday and Argentina U-20 on Tuesday.
USA: 1-Santiago Castaño; 3-John Requejo Jr. (18-Chase Gasper, 46), 5-Erik Palmer-Brown (19-Conor Donovan, 62), 4-Matt Miazga, 2-Shaquell Moore (16-Luis Martir, 46); 6-Russell Canouse, 8-Fernando Arce (14-Junior Flores, 46), 10-Joel Soñora (15-Luis Felipe, 67); 11-Zach Pfeffer, 9-Romain Gall, 7-Paul Arriola (13-Bradford Jamieson, 46)
I wish some of these games were televised. Soñora, for example, was intriguing with the U17s and is in Boca Juniors' academy, but it's impossible to say how he's progressed.
Next up Defensa y Justicia reserves on Saturday and Argentina U-20 on Tuesday.
This came out a few days ago but escaped my attention. US vs. Honduras on Oct 14 in Boca Raton.
10/10 vs. Ecuador @ Hartford, CT
10/14 vs. Honduras @ Boca Raton, FL
11/18 @ Ireland
We should be scheduling another game in November.
10/10 vs. Ecuador @ Hartford, CT
10/14 vs. Honduras @ Boca Raton, FL
11/18 @ Ireland
We should be scheduling another game in November.
Will Parchman @WillParchman 1m
Edwin Lara is on a Mexico U17 roster. Not good news for U.S. Soccer.
Edwin Lara is on a Mexico U17 roster. Not good news for U.S. Soccer.
I recognize the perils of the transitive-property win, but the same Czech team that lost 0-1 to the U.S. just beat the Netherlands in a Euro qualifier. That will help the ELO a bit.
FYP. ELO point exchanges are based on where the teams are at the time they play and not affected whatsoever by games that happen later.Joe D Reid said:
https://twitter.com/sunilgulati/status/515483246285828096
This matters because it means that clubs will be required to release players for this tournament. There will be some decisions to made as far as the Copa America vs. the Olympics for countries that qualify. The tournaments don't overlap, but it's not likely many players will participate in both.
The Ecuador and Honduras friendlies are approaching. A while ago, Klinsmann said that he'd give a lot of the regulars the fall off and experiment. More recently, he's discussed bringing the strongest squad possible to these friendlies. MLS will be in full playoff crunch mode, but that's the league's fault for scheduling over FIFA dates. There have been rumors that Klinsmann will assemble a huge camp of about 30 players. If so, I'd guess there will be a rotating cast for each friendly to not disturb MLS teams too much.
This matters because it means that clubs will be required to release players for this tournament. There will be some decisions to made as far as the Copa America vs. the Olympics for countries that qualify. The tournaments don't overlap, but it's not likely many players will participate in both.
The Ecuador and Honduras friendlies are approaching. A while ago, Klinsmann said that he'd give a lot of the regulars the fall off and experiment. More recently, he's discussed bringing the strongest squad possible to these friendlies. MLS will be in full playoff crunch mode, but that's the league's fault for scheduling over FIFA dates. There have been rumors that Klinsmann will assemble a huge camp of about 30 players. If so, I'd guess there will be a rotating cast for each friendly to not disturb MLS teams too much.
Have you heard of Miguel Ibarra?
No? Well, that's because he plays in the second-division NASL for Minnesota United.
ESPN's reporting that he's been called up for the October friendlies.
He's a winger, he's fast, and he's apparently done quite well at Minnesota. Low-round pick by Portland in 2012 out of UC Irvine, but they didn't sign him. He's 24. That's all I got. Klinsmann is certainly casting a wide net.
No? Well, that's because he plays in the second-division NASL for Minnesota United.
ESPN's reporting that he's been called up for the October friendlies.
He's a winger, he's fast, and he's apparently done quite well at Minnesota. Low-round pick by Portland in 2012 out of UC Irvine, but they didn't sign him. He's 24. That's all I got. Klinsmann is certainly casting a wide net.
soxfan121 said:
Well, by calling up guys like Ibarra and Morris and by handing a start to a greenhorn like Joe Gyau, it's clear that Klinsmann recognizes that our World Cup attack was slow as dirt. When teams aren't afraid of letting you get in behind the defense, they push up and compress the midfield. Dempsey, Altidore, Zusi, Bedoya, Wondo, et al do not have wheels that scare anyone. There's only so much Fabian Johnson and DeAndre Yedlin can do to alleviate the problem. And that certainly played some role in the below-expectations performance from midfielders like Bradley in particular. Speed isn't the only way to create space for others, but it's the easiest way. Now is the time in the cycle to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.
It also is yet another reminder about what a damn shame Charlie Davies' career has become. It's easy to mythologize Davies; those who point out that he was never going to be a world class striker are correct. But damn if he wasn't (supposed to be) the right man at the right time. He checked a lot of boxes that the US badly needed and ultimately, have never replaced since.
Every team gets injuries, but you look at the injuries to Davies, Holden, and Onyewu, these were supposed to be contributors at each level of the team, and they were done in by catastrophic, and frankly bizarre, injuries. Davies in the car accident, Holden getting DeJong'd and subsequently more leg damage, and Onyewu rupturing his patellar tendon in the dying embers of a the final qualifier How the last five years would have gone with them fully healthy, or even normal knocks.
Not that it changes things any, but I thought Onyewu was a PCL rather than a patella tendon.Infield Infidel said:
Titans Bastard said:
I appreciate Klinsmann and the successes he's had with the team, but man, sometimes his choices drive me up a wall. Is Ibarra seriously going to be a better choice than Lee Nguyen would have been? Maybe I'm just looking at it through Revs-colored glasses, but Ibarra plays in the NASL, and Lee Nguyen is an MLS MVP candidate.
soxfan121 said:
Well, I'm certainly telling my 16 year old to be ready!!!
More seriously, here's an article on Ibarra and JK's (possible) thoughts: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/09/29/commentary-miguel-ibarras-usmnt-interest-offers-revealing-look-jurgen-klinsm
I think Ibarra has found a club that was willing to invest time and tutelage in him -- it's Minnesota United. He was discarded by Portland for whatever reason. Maybe the Timbers screwed up, maybe Ibarra was still too raw to contribute. Even if the Timbers recognized his potential who knows if Ibarra would have become as good as he is now after he rotted on the bench behind the endless assembly line of foreigners coming through Portland.
I don't watch NASL games, but over the (long) course of me wasting time reading stupid shit on the internet, I've heard Ibarra's name as one of the best players in the league. NYRB reportedly tried to sign him this spring, but didn't want to pay a fee. (Most minor league players are on one-year contracts and are thus available on frees, but apparently Ibarra signed a longer term deal.) Ibarra isn't entirely unknown.
From a USMNT perspective, the minor leagues are mostly going to have value as a venue to develop prospects still too raw for MLS. Then there will be guys who fell through the cracks like Ibarra, but they are few and far between. And let's not forget - Ibarra getting cut by Portland, going to the minors, and getting a surprise call up is a nice feel-good story, but who knows if he'll even be somewhat adequate at the international level.
I don't watch NASL games, but over the (long) course of me wasting time reading stupid shit on the internet, I've heard Ibarra's name as one of the best players in the league. NYRB reportedly tried to sign him this spring, but didn't want to pay a fee. (Most minor league players are on one-year contracts and are thus available on frees, but apparently Ibarra signed a longer term deal.) Ibarra isn't entirely unknown.
From a USMNT perspective, the minor leagues are mostly going to have value as a venue to develop prospects still too raw for MLS. Then there will be guys who fell through the cracks like Ibarra, but they are few and far between. And let's not forget - Ibarra getting cut by Portland, going to the minors, and getting a surprise call up is a nice feel-good story, but who knows if he'll even be somewhat adequate at the international level.
U23 squad has been announced. The team is traveling to Brazil to play Brazil U23.
GK
Charlie Horton (Cardiff City)
Cody Cropper (Southampton)
DF
Cameron Carter-Vickers (Tottenham Hotspur)
Christian Dean (Vancouver Whitecaps)
Matt Miazga (New York Red Bulls)
Eric Miller (Montreal Impact)
Juan Pablo Ocegueda (Alebrijes de Oaxaca)
Will Packwood (Birmingham City)
Dillon Serna (Colorado Rapids)
Oscar Sorto (LA Galaxy)
MF
Dennis Flores (León)
Marlon Hairston (Colorado Rapids)
Emerson Hyndman (Fulham)
Benji Joya (Chicago Fire)
Esteban Rodriguez (Dorados de Sinaloa)
FW
Alonso Hernandez (Monterrey)
Jordan Morris (Stanford)
Sean Okoli (Seattle Sounders)
Mario Rodriguez (Borussia Mönchengladbach)
Rubio Rubin (Utrecht)
Ben Spencer (Indy Eleven)
GK
Charlie Horton (Cardiff City)
Cody Cropper (Southampton)
DF
Cameron Carter-Vickers (Tottenham Hotspur)
Christian Dean (Vancouver Whitecaps)
Matt Miazga (New York Red Bulls)
Eric Miller (Montreal Impact)
Juan Pablo Ocegueda (Alebrijes de Oaxaca)
Will Packwood (Birmingham City)
Dillon Serna (Colorado Rapids)
Oscar Sorto (LA Galaxy)
MF
Dennis Flores (León)
Marlon Hairston (Colorado Rapids)
Emerson Hyndman (Fulham)
Benji Joya (Chicago Fire)
Esteban Rodriguez (Dorados de Sinaloa)
FW
Alonso Hernandez (Monterrey)
Jordan Morris (Stanford)
Sean Okoli (Seattle Sounders)
Mario Rodriguez (Borussia Mönchengladbach)
Rubio Rubin (Utrecht)
Ben Spencer (Indy Eleven)
- Well, that means guys like Morris, Rubin, and Hyndman won't be back in camp with the USMNT.
- I wonder if this means we'll see Wil Trapp with the national team. Or maybe the Crew just convinced the USSF not to take him away. Same with guys like Luis Gil, Shane O'Neill, Paul Arriola, Tommy Thompson, Kellyn Acosta, et al
- Cameron Carter-Vickers is 16 - by far the youngest player here. Seems a little premature.
- Serna keeps getting called in as a fullback in NT circles, but he's a winger for Colorado
soxfan121 said:
It's hard to read into these rosters too much because there are injuries, players with the full NT, players who clubs convinced the staff not to take, players who the staff left off just because they want to evaluate others, and players who will emerge over the next 1.5 years before qualifying.
That being said, here's how I would categorize players:
RB - Miller, Sorto
[Miller has also played LB for Montreal this year, but he's right-footed]
CB - Dean, Carter-Vickers, Miazga, Packwood
LB - Ocegueda, Serna
[Serna plays as a winger professionally]
CM - Flores, Hairston, Hyndman, Joya
[Joya has been a wide player at times, but has played centrally for club and county recently. I don't think there's a real DM here, although I don't know much about Flores. In the long term, Wil Trapp has DM locked down.]
AM/FW - Rubin, Spencer, Morris, Okoli, Hernandez M. Rodriguez, E. Rodriguez
[Spencer is a big hulking 6'5" target type. Esteban Rodriguez is listed at 5'6" and would be a wide player in a 4-3-3. Hernandez would probably be used out wide as well. The rest are probably viewed as options for both for the time being.]
1) We're definitely missing key players in this age group, but on the other hand it's good to flesh out the depth chart because European based players will all probably be unavailable. Well, at least the good ones who are playing for the first team. That means Yedlin, Brooks, Green, Hyndman, Rubin, etc.
2) The 2016 Olympics are the last shot for players born from 1993-1996. That's a pretty wide age range and obviously one that favors players born in 1993. Still, as the year progresses the top 95s and 96s will start to overtake lesser talented 93s and 94s. So there will be some natural emergence of better players over time.
Trying to project an 18 man Olympic roster is tough. Here's an attempt:
1. overage GK [in place of Zack Steffen]
2. GK - Cody Cropper
3. RB - DeAndre Yedlin
4. RB/LB - Eric Miller
5. CB - John Brooks
6. CB - Shane O'Neill
7. CB - Will Packwood
8. overage LB [in place of Juan Pablo Ocegueda]
9. CM - Wil Trapp
10. CM - Emerson Hyndman
11. CM/RB/LB - Kellyn Acosta
12. AM - Luis Gil
13. AM - Julian Green
14. AM - Tommy Thompson
15. AM/LB - Dillon Serna
16. FW - Rubio Rubin
17. FW - Jordan Morris
18. overage FW [in place of whoever you want to say is after Rubin and Morris]
Trapp/Hyndman wouldn't exactly be the world's most physical CM pairing, but I can't turn down that much skill and smarts. I expect this list would evolve more than a little over the next year. Some players have really proven a lot on the field (Yedlin, Brooks, O'Neill, Trapp, Gil, I'd say Acosta and Serna are getting there), but we don't have 18 of them, so others are here based on reputation (Morris, Cropper) or on impressive but short cameos with expected growth (Thompson, Hyndman, Rubin)