USMNT: To Rüssia With Love
- Thread starter Titans Bastard
- Start date
Losing 2-0 to Costa Rica at home is a worse than anything Klinsmann did this cycle. Can we fire arena now?
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How was that not a straight red on Dempsey?
We REALLY don't need Clint and Jozy out for Honduras.
We REALLY don't need Clint and Jozy out for Honduras.
The good news is Honduras still has both Mexico and Costa Rica left. Of course, they both may put out B sides.
They took at least 2' with that double substitution plus a ton of other time wasting. It would be more meaningful if we were still down 1 but I thought it was deserved
Really, really, really bad spot to lose your first game of 2017. It's not panic time, but the rest of the Hex is guaranteed to be very stressful.
@ Honduras
vs Panama
@ T&T
Tuesday's game against Honduras is going to be a brutal street fight. There's a ton on the line for both teams, San Pedro Sula is a tough place to play, and the Catrachos are reliably the dirtiest team in CONCACAF (and that's saying something).
@ Honduras
vs Panama
@ T&T
Tuesday's game against Honduras is going to be a brutal street fight. There's a ton on the line for both teams, San Pedro Sula is a tough place to play, and the Catrachos are reliably the dirtiest team in CONCACAF (and that's saying something).
In truth, if Mexico and Costa Rica keep winning their games, a draw at Honduras and a win against Panama puts us in great shape for 3rd place and avoiding the playoff. But the margin for error is shrinking fast.
I've never seen worse distribution from the back line. Brooks was here indeed. Missed Yedlin's pace so much as well. Or anyone's pace.
Zusi seemed reasonably sturdy in defense to me, too, but he looked super super uncomfortable dealing with Costa Rica's high press in the first half.
This team would be a relegation team in the PL.
Sad that the "hope" for this group are 30+ year olds.
Howard looks like he's done as well.
Sad but USA soccer is just non-competitive
Sad that the "hope" for this group are 30+ year olds.
Howard looks like he's done as well.
Sad but USA soccer is just non-competitive
It feels like Arena overthought this lineup.
I didn't like the Nagbe-Bradley combination at CM, although Bradley was good. Nagbe doesn't put a physical stamp on the game and while he was not the only offender, that's part of the reason why the US was out-muscled by CR too often. Nagbe has been at his best for the US playing on the left, where he can pinch in to help with possession and make occasional runs forward. He serves a possession force magnifier since he has great ball security. His tendency to pinch in also opens up space for the attack-minded Villafaña, who had a quiet night offensively.
Placing Nagbe in CM also resulted in another misfiring partnership on the left flank (Johnson/Villafaña). Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember the last time Fabian Johnson had an above-average game in the midfield for the US.
Ream failed his audition as the #3 CB. No one can claim to be shocked that Ream had his brain farts and shaky moments, but Cameron really should have done better.
Altidore and Wood didn't seem to have great chemistry together either. It won't be an issue against Honduras with Jozy suspended.
Pulisic showed flashes of his quality, but wasn't as influential tonight. He got hacked to death and received a lesson in the ways of CONCACAF. I hope to see him used centrally and given free rein in Honduras.
Father Time is catching up to Howard. It's a bad time for a GK transition (chemistry/organization/familiarity with the back line), but it could get ugly by next summer.
I didn't like the Nagbe-Bradley combination at CM, although Bradley was good. Nagbe doesn't put a physical stamp on the game and while he was not the only offender, that's part of the reason why the US was out-muscled by CR too often. Nagbe has been at his best for the US playing on the left, where he can pinch in to help with possession and make occasional runs forward. He serves a possession force magnifier since he has great ball security. His tendency to pinch in also opens up space for the attack-minded Villafaña, who had a quiet night offensively.
Placing Nagbe in CM also resulted in another misfiring partnership on the left flank (Johnson/Villafaña). Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember the last time Fabian Johnson had an above-average game in the midfield for the US.
Ream failed his audition as the #3 CB. No one can claim to be shocked that Ream had his brain farts and shaky moments, but Cameron really should have done better.
Altidore and Wood didn't seem to have great chemistry together either. It won't be an issue against Honduras with Jozy suspended.
Pulisic showed flashes of his quality, but wasn't as influential tonight. He got hacked to death and received a lesson in the ways of CONCACAF. I hope to see him used centrally and given free rein in Honduras.
Father Time is catching up to Howard. It's a bad time for a GK transition (chemistry/organization/familiarity with the back line), but it could get ugly by next summer.
Mexico takes care of business and are through. USA have dropped points at home and now need the road points. Three points in Honduras is a tall order, but I have a good feeling they will respond.
Good luck for the rest of the qualifyers. A WC without the US would miss a lot.
You should remember that Pulisic is still only 18years old. Most of the 2.Bundesliga teams would be happy if they had a 18year old getting regular playing time. And you are basically expecting him to play each game like he can perform on a consistent top level vs.experienced players. Which he can´t, at his current age.
You should remember that Pulisic is still only 18years old. Most of the 2.Bundesliga teams would be happy if they had a 18year old getting regular playing time. And you are basically expecting him to play each game like he can perform on a consistent top level vs.experienced players. Which he can´t, at his current age.
Great point. I am hopeful that by the time Pulisic reaches his prime we have some players with enough talent to help him.
The talent pool shortfall reared its ugly head again last night. A number of the starters and most of the bench have no business playing in an important qualifier - they simply are not good enough. But we must use what we have, which in this cycle might result in failing to qualify. Tim Howard, in particular, should be sent to the glue factory but when the alternative is Brad Guzan, there's a talent pool problem. It is not Howard's fault he's become a shell of his former self - that's Father Time's fault. That we have no viable alternatives is the problem with the talent pool. Horvath 2022?
Another loss on Tuesday should result in Sunil Gulati getting terminated but that'll never happen. But a man can hope.
EDIT: Before someone asks: Howard, Zusi, Ream, Villafana, Nagbe, Bradley, Altidore, Wood, and last night, Johnson. When 9 of the 11 are lousy, old, in poor form, or not talented enough for this level you are going to lose games.
I think Arena got too cute with the back 4; only one guy back there, Cameron, has a lot of experience with the team and in defense. The others are either young (Villafana), new to the position (Zusi), or in and out of the squad (Ream). Johnson would have been better back there, and with the injuries to Brooks and Yedlin, we have more depth in the midfield right now anyway.
They mentioned it on the broadcast, that while we were decent passing until the final third, our best chances came down the flanks and from longballs, which makes sense because CR hacked the guys to death and the ref held the whistle, both of which ruined any kind of rhythm. I was surprised the subs didn't come earlier in the 2nd half to adjust to the way the game was being called, but besides Bradley we have no steel in the midfield. With the way the game was being called we should have hacked more. In the 20+ years I've watched USMNT, professional fouls are something that tactically we never do, it's continually frustrating to watch other teams do it and us not do it.
That all said, CR played really well, finished their chances, and a world class keeper made two ridiculous saves.
They mentioned it on the broadcast, that while we were decent passing until the final third, our best chances came down the flanks and from longballs, which makes sense because CR hacked the guys to death and the ref held the whistle, both of which ruined any kind of rhythm. I was surprised the subs didn't come earlier in the 2nd half to adjust to the way the game was being called, but besides Bradley we have no steel in the midfield. With the way the game was being called we should have hacked more. In the 20+ years I've watched USMNT, professional fouls are something that tactically we never do, it's continually frustrating to watch other teams do it and us not do it.
That all said, CR played really well, finished their chances, and a world class keeper made two ridiculous saves.
In the post-game chatter on ESPN, they were talking about how Bryan Ruiz was barely touched all night but Pulisic got beaten to a pulp. Arena is famous for his "first foul, first shot, first goal" mantra of how he wants his players to approach the game with intensity. We definitely did not see it last night. A certain manager might even say the team needed to be a bit more "nasty".
Your post may also be the first in this thread to give CR proper credit. Their team is clearly has clarity of purpose, everyone knows their part to play in the overall concept, and they executed very well. The Ticos have been playing this way for years now, whereas the US hasn't had nearly as much consistency. That showed last night.
I agree the Ticos executed their game, but their game revolved around leveraging their best player (Navas). As conservative as they lined up. As physical as they played. Navas was the difference betweeen 2-0 and 2-2. Urena deserves credit for burying his best chances. While Ruiz went untouched, I also thought he was mostly invisible and is not the player he was 2 years ago (He is no longer an automatic first XI choice at Sporting). I think the worst thing Arena can do is make more panic moves. He changed his mind mutilple times on his subs. Maybe playing a simpler game, conceding possession to the home team, will bring a better performance on Tuesday *fingerscrossed*.
xG isn't the be-all, end-all, but this hammers home the difference in finishing and goalkeeping:
We simply don't have the talent to be able to steamroll good teams like Mexico and Costa Rica when 50/50 breaks go against us. I understand there will always be a section of supporters who want to put all of the blame on the coach or the federation president, but there is literally nothing they can do to instantly fix the gap in talent between the US player pool and that of countries like France and Argentina.
Firing Klinsmann was never going to give us the extra five or six world class players we need, and neither will firing Arena or Gulati.
Firing Klinsmann was never going to give us the extra five or six world class players we need, and neither will firing Arena or Gulati.
In terms of winning games right now it probably makes sense to play dirty. But in the long run I think it impedes progress. The goal should not be to win the Gold Cup or qualify for the World Cup. We can do that without pushing and pulling. The goal should be to get to the level of Germany and Brazil, and to do that we need to be able to win through vision and passing.
Costa Rica seems to know what to do to beat us. 6-0 is hard to deny, and you have to tip your cap.
There are many facets to the long term v. short term question. What I feel pretty confident about is that missing the 2018 World Cup would be bad in the long and short term. Maybe Klinsmann was just a victim of the timing of the hex, but I still feel much better about their ability to qualify with Arena than I did with Klinsmann. They need a result in a tough venue right now. I don't know if they have the resilience to do it, but I feel like with Klinsmann they were more not less likely to fold.
There is a ton of shit to figure out with the USMNT, but I don't have the energy to think beyond Tuesday. Go will us to a fucking result Bruce.
There are many facets to the long term v. short term question. What I feel pretty confident about is that missing the 2018 World Cup would be bad in the long and short term. Maybe Klinsmann was just a victim of the timing of the hex, but I still feel much better about their ability to qualify with Arena than I did with Klinsmann. They need a result in a tough venue right now. I don't know if they have the resilience to do it, but I feel like with Klinsmann they were more not less likely to fold.
There is a ton of shit to figure out with the USMNT, but I don't have the energy to think beyond Tuesday. Go will us to a fucking result Bruce.
Sorry I should have been clearer, it's not that they necessarily need to play dirty, it's just that there are instances in a game where stopping play lets the defense reset. On the first goal, Ream was marking Urenas for 15 yards 1v1, then Urenas uses two touches to reposition himself before he got to the box, Ream got juked on the first touch but recovered on the second. Good. Just push him down there, or grab his shirt, and take the yellow card. The goal wasn't entirely on Ream, Howard's initial pass was awful and then he moved too close to the line on the shot, but Ream has to see that the situation was bad and shut it down. I can see how others might consider that dirty, but I think it's smart.
Elite goalkeepers go through several career phases. Initially, they’re freaks of reaction and coordination, relying on pure athleticism to make spectacular saves. They’re typically not complete players at this point, backing up more rounded veterans, but they’re noticed and lined up by big clubs and country. Donnuramma is at the tail end of this stage right now. De Gea in his first year at United was another. Neuer’s Shalke years are a great example as well.
As maturity creeps in, the reading of the game, marshaling of the back line, and ownership of the penalty area fill out their resumes. The physical gifts aren’t quite as explosive, but are more than made up for with the other developed strengths. These are the elites. Current De Gea, Courtois, Neuer, etc.
A few guys take that experience to the next level. Their read of the game allows them to cheat positioning based on percentages they’re calculating in their head in real-time. Their command of the back line makes you question how they position their players until the ball lands harmlessly at a defender’s feet. Buffon, Zoff, Lehmen, Kahn, Seamen, etc are in this rare group that lives beyond their physical gifts. Howard was in the lower stratosphere of this group, but he’s fallen out.
Watching a keeper fall off the age cliff is especially painful for me, having recently experienced it myself at the beer league level. The signs are the same, though- the game speeds up beyond any ability to cope. Reads are wrong. Shots that wouldn’t be trouble the previous season are finding the back of the net. We’re seeing it with Howard.
Early in last night’s game, a defender shanked a clearance and it went up with an awkward spin. A Costa Rican forward made a half-hearted challenge. Howard jumped for it, but was back on the ground straight-legged before it found his hands. You could see the surprised jolt through his entire body.
The first goal saw him shuffle out of position- he’s nervous with his footwork. His feet were constantly moving, but not in controlled twitches. He didn’t have time to plant, dove awkwardly, and missed a shot I’m not sure I’ve seen him concede before. The second goal is tougher, but you can see again the muscle memory movements that brought his leg out for a familiar save didn’t connect.
He’s in his own head at this point. He may have a few left in him if he can overcome the self-doubt that’s crept in, but what I saw last night was a keeper that didn’t understand why he couldn’t do what he’s been doing his entire life. I don’t think he’ll be fit for the World Cup, and Guzan is currently in his own nightmare. I don’t have a great solution, but I’d much rather have my final Howard World Cup memory be his heroics against Belgium than see the whimperish exit that currently feels inevitable.
As maturity creeps in, the reading of the game, marshaling of the back line, and ownership of the penalty area fill out their resumes. The physical gifts aren’t quite as explosive, but are more than made up for with the other developed strengths. These are the elites. Current De Gea, Courtois, Neuer, etc.
A few guys take that experience to the next level. Their read of the game allows them to cheat positioning based on percentages they’re calculating in their head in real-time. Their command of the back line makes you question how they position their players until the ball lands harmlessly at a defender’s feet. Buffon, Zoff, Lehmen, Kahn, Seamen, etc are in this rare group that lives beyond their physical gifts. Howard was in the lower stratosphere of this group, but he’s fallen out.
Watching a keeper fall off the age cliff is especially painful for me, having recently experienced it myself at the beer league level. The signs are the same, though- the game speeds up beyond any ability to cope. Reads are wrong. Shots that wouldn’t be trouble the previous season are finding the back of the net. We’re seeing it with Howard.
Early in last night’s game, a defender shanked a clearance and it went up with an awkward spin. A Costa Rican forward made a half-hearted challenge. Howard jumped for it, but was back on the ground straight-legged before it found his hands. You could see the surprised jolt through his entire body.
The first goal saw him shuffle out of position- he’s nervous with his footwork. His feet were constantly moving, but not in controlled twitches. He didn’t have time to plant, dove awkwardly, and missed a shot I’m not sure I’ve seen him concede before. The second goal is tougher, but you can see again the muscle memory movements that brought his leg out for a familiar save didn’t connect.
He’s in his own head at this point. He may have a few left in him if he can overcome the self-doubt that’s crept in, but what I saw last night was a keeper that didn’t understand why he couldn’t do what he’s been doing his entire life. I don’t think he’ll be fit for the World Cup, and Guzan is currently in his own nightmare. I don’t have a great solution, but I’d much rather have my final Howard World Cup memory be his heroics against Belgium than see the whimperish exit that currently feels inevitable.
Great post. Let's hope last night was a blip on the radar or he's nursing something - his distribution looked quite good despite the goals.
A 5:30 kick-off tonight?
Scenarios: https://sports.yahoo.com/u-s-still-good-shape-qualify-2018-world-cup-234236415.html
Scenarios: https://sports.yahoo.com/u-s-still-good-shape-qualify-2018-world-cup-234236415.html
I do wonder: if Pulisic becomes the player we all hope he does, will CONCACAF concerns keep him from a Neymar/Mbappe transfer? What club wants to invest that sort of money in a player who is going to be mauled by the opposition every few months?
How have similar "big fish in little ponds" (i.e. big talents playing for lower tier NTs) been handled?
It is hard not to qualify but I think they could do it. Let's hope that players are played in proper positions and that binkies are kept on the bench. Oh, and did anyone buy a time machine? That would help, a lot.
I think it's a legitimate concern, but in terms of season/career ending tackles I'm not sure it's that much worse than CONEMBOL. I'd think that Neymar, Vidal, Alexis Sanchez, hell, even Coutinho, are in just as much danger of being targeted in a qualifier or continental cup match by a team/player desperate for an edge.
That's 3:36 local time in San Pedro Sula on a workday. It seems like a fairly transparent attempt by the local governing body to have the match played in the mid-afternoon heat.
Yeah, I see the point, but is it that much different from what Argentina or Brazil get at games in Bolivia or Paraguay? - plus CONMEBOL's 18-game qualification is even more brutal than the Hex, right?
I know he's not exactly a fan favorite around these parts and certainly he's not the future of the USMNT, but I have always liked what Jermaine Jones adds to the hexagonal. It's a grueling competition played over a year in difficult forums where one goal here, or a yellow there, makes a difference. Qualification requires depth and physical and mental toughness. Sometimes, it requires Connor Caseys as much as it requires Christian Pulisics.
Jones doesn't take shit, and makes players think twice about their ankles. He's plodding, has trouble with linking from the back, and can leave open spaces. On balance, I get why he's not here. I guess he's the kind of player you like to have when you're in a good shape in the competition and are playing for a road point in difficult Concacaf venues, and that's not the position the USA is in at the moment.
I'm not seriously advocating for him to be on the team. I'm saying that I miss what he brings, especially in games like today's.
Jones doesn't take shit, and makes players think twice about their ankles. He's plodding, has trouble with linking from the back, and can leave open spaces. On balance, I get why he's not here. I guess he's the kind of player you like to have when you're in a good shape in the competition and are playing for a road point in difficult Concacaf venues, and that's not the position the USA is in at the moment.
I'm not seriously advocating for him to be on the team. I'm saying that I miss what he brings, especially in games like today's.
I understand the Jones point, but I think the need for an enforcer of that type is an admission that there's a serious problem with both American federations. A team carrying a thug into a competition with the expectation that one or more of its stars is going to be assaulted is a strong signal that that something needs to change.
I don't enjoy watching most of the stuff that takes place on this side of the Atlantic. There is incredible talent that translates to thrilling moments, but I find the cringe-worthy playacting, vicious personal attacks, and painful gamesmanship (knocking the ball away from a free kick or throw-in, shoe tying, etc) uncomfortable to view. There are bits of it no matter what league or team is playing, but it's all packed into a tidy 90 minute window when these teams go at it.
I don't enjoy watching most of the stuff that takes place on this side of the Atlantic. There is incredible talent that translates to thrilling moments, but I find the cringe-worthy playacting, vicious personal attacks, and painful gamesmanship (knocking the ball away from a free kick or throw-in, shoe tying, etc) uncomfortable to view. There are bits of it no matter what league or team is playing, but it's all packed into a tidy 90 minute window when these teams go at it.
I don't disagree, and hope that Copa America Centenario and things like that will elevate the federation's style of play. But the unfortunate truth is that this style of play exists because it works. Starting games in the middle of the day, deliberately underwatering the field, all that needs to stop, but it doesn't seem like the federation is capable of making it stop.
One start would be to elevate the level of play in the concacaf champions league. Give the refs better instruction, more liberal cautions, more concern about field conditions.
Anyway, I get it. Starting Jermaine Jones in important games is not something to which any of us should aspire, but sometimes you have to play the ball as it lies.
There's no doubt that the US performance against Costa Rica lacked steel and bite in the midfield and Jones always brought lots of energy, intensity, and physicality. He's totally past it, though. For LA, he is simply no longer performing at a level anywhere near US international caliber. He'll be 36 in a couple of months - he's had a good run.
The US hosted Costa Rica in Denver during the winter last World Cup qualifying. I have no problems with a team doing what they see best off-field to win matches at home. The on-field stuff is exhausting.
Seven changes to the line up - only Pulisic, Bradley, Zusi, and Nagbe remain.
4-4-2 with Nagbe shifting left to replace Johnson and Acosta at CM? Or 4-3-1-2 with Pulisic playing a roaming #10?
4-4-2 with Nagbe shifting left to replace Johnson and Acosta at CM? Or 4-3-1-2 with Pulisic playing a roaming #10?