Week 14 Game Thread

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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You just can't run the ball this much in today's NFL.
The Eagles (11-1, 1st in NFCE) are #3 in the NFL in rushing attempts. Dallas (9-3, 2nd in NFCE) is #7. Baltimore (8-4, 1st in AFCN) is #8. Tennessee (7-5, 1st in AFCS) is #9. San Fran (8-4, 1st in NFCW) is #10. That's 5 of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts in the NFL, and of those 5, 4 are division leaders, and the other is the best 2nd place team in the league.

The Rams are actually #25 in the NFL in rush attempts.
 

rodderick

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The Eagles (11-1, 1st in NFCE) are #3 in the NFL in rushing attempts. Dallas (9-3, 2nd in NFCE) is #7. Baltimore (8-4, 1st in AFCN) is #8. Tennessee (7-5, 1st in AFCS) is #9. San Fran (8-4, 1st in NFCW) is #10. That's 5 of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts in the NFL, and of those 5, 4 are division leaders, and the other is the best 2nd place team in the league.

The Rams are actually #25 in the NFL in rush attempts.
None of the teams you cited have anything close to a 2:1 run to pass ratio as the Raiders did in this game. That's a number I don't believe you can, with any consistency, win with in today's NFL, hence the "can't run the ball this much", not "can't run the ball a lot".
 

tims4wins

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You just can't run the ball this much in today's NFL. I know the Rams kind of suck, but you're not winning games by throwing 20 passes and going up the gut on every first down. That was coaching malpractice by Josh. You're riding high on winning streak, beat this hapless team and you have the Pats at home with a chance of competing for a Wildcard, and that's the game you call? Carr sucked too, but come on.
But it was a 16-3 game with 12:20 left. The Raiders only had one more drive after that, on which they had 3rd and 1, and failed to convert. At the point when the Raiders took a 16-3 lead, the Rams had 110 total yards. Their offense was completely incompetent. I think it is EXACTLY how BB would have played the same type of game. It took several very very very fortunate things to happen for the Rams to win that game.

Edit: Raiders drive chart
1H:
TD
FG
FG
Pick in the red zone

Can't really fault play calling in the first half given this production. They moved it with ease.

2H:
3 and out (holding on 1st down backed them up; got it to 3rd and 5, but couldn't convert)
3 and out (run for 8 yards; run for 0; incomplete on 3rd; hard to fault the play calling here, they got to 2nd and short and just didn't execute)
FG
3 and out (as mentioned earlier in my post, got it to 3rd and 1 and just didn't convert)

I really don't think the Raiders / Josh mishandled the offensively, at all really.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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None of the teams you cited have anything close to a 2:1 run to pass ratio as the Raiders did in this game. That's a number I don't believe you can, with any consistency, win with in today's NFL, hence the "can't run the ball this much", not "can't run the ball a lot".
I hear you. It would have worked though, had the stupid defensive player had the absolutely mindless unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on that last drive. I think Josh felt that the defense was doing the job, that a conservative game plan was sufficient, and Jacobs, of course, has been awesome this year. I can see his logic.

And Carr only completed 11 of 20 passes (55%) for just 137 yards - 32 of which came on a ridiculous one-handed grab by Adams - and threw 2 interceptions. They out-gained the Rams 302-282, and before that last drive it was super lopsided. So I can at least understand their game plan.

But I get your point.
 

rodderick

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But it was a 16-3 game with 12:20 left. The Raiders only had one more drive after that, on which they had 3rd and 1, and failed to convert. At the point when the Raiders took a 16-3 lead, the Rams had 110 total yards. Their offense was completely incompetent. I think it is EXACTLY how BB would have played the same type of game. It took several very very very fortunate things to happen for the Rams to win that game.
They went up 13-3 with 10 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter and basically decided that was enough. You don't let teams as bad as these Rams hang on all game under those circumstances.
 

tims4wins

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They went up 13-3 with 10 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter and basically decided that was enough. You don't let teams as bad as these Rams hang on all game under those circumstances.
See my edit with the drive chart. They got into the red zone again late in the half and threw a pick.

It was really just a failure to execute in the 2nd half. They only had 4 real drives. One had a holding penalty on 1st and they got it to 3rd and 5 and didn't convert; the next had a 2nd and 2 and they failed to convert; the next drive they drove for a FG; and the final drive they had a 3rd and 1 and failed to convert. It's not like they were just pounding it into the line and then throwing incomplete on 3rd and 10.
 

Marciano490

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None of the teams you cited have anything close to a 2:1 run to pass ratio as the Raiders did in this game. That's a number I don't believe you can, with any consistency, win with in today's NFL, hence the "can't run the ball this much", not "can't run the ball a lot".
Also, most of those teams are unicorns. Baltimore and Philly have QBs that can put up 100 yards rushing at any point. Dallas probably has the best two back tandem in the league - besides perhaps San Francisco and Tennessee has one of the Top 3 backs of the last 3-5 years.
 

BaseballJones

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Well definitely if you aren’t good at running the ball you shouldn’t run as much. The Raiders have one of the best RBs in the world, the leagues leading rusher. They should run a lot.
 

mauf

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But it was a 16-3 game with 12:20 left. The Raiders only had one more drive after that, on which they had 3rd and 1, and failed to convert. At the point when the Raiders took a 16-3 lead, the Rams had 110 total yards. Their offense was completely incompetent. I think it is EXACTLY how BB would have played the same type of game. It took several very very very fortunate things to happen for the Rams to win that game.

Edit: Raiders drive chart
1H:
TD
FG
FG
Pick in the red zone

Can't really fault play calling in the first half given this production. They moved it with ease.

2H:
3 and out (holding on 1st down backed them up; got it to 3rd and 5, but couldn't convert)
3 and out (run for 8 yards; run for 0; incomplete on 3rd; hard to fault the play calling here, they got to 2nd and short and just didn't execute)
FG
3 and out (as mentioned earlier in my post, got it to 3rd and 1 and just didn't convert)

I really don't think the Raiders / Josh mishandled the offensively, at all really.
I’m with you. Playing conservatively to run out the clock against a team that scored 3 points in the first 50-odd minutes was a reasonable strategy. The defense just needed to execute. And as bad as they were down the stretch, they would’ve hung on if they didn’t take that dumb penalty.

Edit to a little context:
— Raiders had 7 rushes and 4 passes in the 3rd quarter. One of those rushes was by Carr; I don’t recall if it was a designed run or a scramble. So a bit run-heavy, but nothing crazy.
— Excluding Carr’s throw that was picked after the Rams took the lead (last play before the Mayfield kneel-down), the Raiders had 6 rushes and 2 passes in the 4th quarter.
 
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Toe Nash

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One thing is that Crosby was blatantly held about 7 times on the last two drives and they only called holding 3 times (one was drawn by Jones) and none after the 5th play of the penultimate Rams drive (even though subsequent holds by Havenstein looked exactly the same as the ones they called). The Raiders should basically be able to put the game away with their edge rushers if they have a late lead and they would have last night, but the refs decided to stop calling holding in the last ten minutes of the game. Havenstein was totally overmatched, they didn't give him any help, by all rights Mayfield should have been destroyed.

I know this kind of thing happens all the time but I have rarely seen it so blatant.

Edit: Two good examples starting at 9:38 here: View: https://youtu.be/j3G_H-GH6sg?t=578
 
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mauf

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One thing is that Crosby was blatantly held about 7 times on the last two drives and they only called holding 3 times (one was drawn by Jones) and none after the 5th play of the penultimate Rams drive (even though subsequent holds by Havenstein looked exactly the same as the ones they called). The Raiders should basically be able to put the game away with their edge rushers if they have a late lead and they would have last night, but the refs decided to stop calling holding in the last ten minutes of the game. Havenstein was totally overmatched, they didn't give him any help, by all rights Mayfield should have been destroyed.

I know this kind of thing happens all the time but I have rarely seen it so blatant.

Edit: Two good examples starting at 9:38 here: View: https://youtu.be/j3G_H-GH6sg?t=578
I thought the second hold was blatant. The first was one of those that’s sometimes called and sometimes isn’t.
 

pappymojo

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I wonder the reasoning of starting Wolford and then bringing in Baker? Was it mainly so that Baker wasn't labeled 'starter'?

Wolford's first series:
-Handoff, gain of 9 yards
-Handoff, no gain
-Handoff, loss of 6 yards
-Punt

Other than changing the play call, what could he have done differently?

Could be that Wolford got series 1, Baker series 2, and then coach's decision on how to proceed I guess... Baker's first play was a nice 21 yard strike to V Jefferson, but they went 3 and out after that and made a long FG

Seemed kind of strange to me
I saw something that the start made him eligible for the NFL pension.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/zgupxe/my_theory_on_why_john_wolford_played_3_snaps_last/
 

E5 Yaz

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I love the question everyone seems to be asking today ... Which Raiders loss was worse: This one, or the loss in Saturday's first game as a head coach?
 

Marciano490

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I love the question everyone seems to be asking today ... Which Raiders loss was worse: This one, or the loss in Saturday's first game as a head coach?
To rephrase - was it more humiliating to lose to the guy who was coaching high school football (fairly unimpressively) earlier in the week or the QB only claimed by one team off waivers after getting cut by lol franchises like the Panthers and Browns and who had about 36 hours with his new team’s playbook and receivers.
 

E5 Yaz

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To rephrase - was it more humiliating to lose to the guy who was coaching high school football (fairly unimpressively) earlier in the week or the QB only claimed by one team off waivers after getting cut by lol franchises like the Panthers and Browns and who had about 36 hours with his new team’s playbook and receivers.
My brain's tired ... been doing math
 

johnmd20

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How the hell are the Lions 2 point favorites over the Vikings?
Lions have lost a bunch of one score games, Minney has won every one score game, so a few plays either way and both teams have the same record.

Detroit is home and has also been playing well in the last few weeks. It is a surprising line but when you look at the point differentials, it's not.
 

dynomite

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I was going to consider it a noble move by McVay but elsewhere in the thread someone says it's not 3 starts, it's 3 games on the 53 man roster. But I would imagine this is the right line of thinking -- instead of NFL Pension it's probably a Wolford specific contract incentive like we see the Pats and Red Sox do from time to time.

(Belichick even sometimes helps out guys who *just* miss incentives: https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/20/two-patriots-receive-pay-raises-despite-missing-out-on-contract-incentives/)
 

E5 Yaz

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Jameson Williams scores on his first NFL catch. Vikings left him wide open
 

StupendousMan

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Do the Jets understand that it is legal to throw a pass beyond the line of scrimmage?

[Edit: I guess so]
 

mauf

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Good teamwork by the officials on the DPI call in Detroit. Flag was late because it wasn’t made by the official closest to the play, who waited a second for the closer official to make it. But obvious PI is obvious.
 

johnmd20

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I've never seen so many flags thrown well after plays were over, sometimes seemingly because the receiver asked for one (Detroit- Minn).
Yes, that PI against Detroit was absurd.

The refs need to handle that better. If the QB throws behind the player and the DB lightly runs into the WR because the pass was shitty, it really shouldn't be rewarded.
 

Al Zarilla

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Good teamwork by the officials on the DPI call in Detroit. Flag was late because it wasn’t made by the official closest to the play, who waited a second for the closer official to make it. But obvious PI is obvious.
The play started at the Detroit 3. How could all of the officials not see what happened in the end zone right in front of them? It's a really bad look when they make a call five seconds after the play is over.
 

StupendousMan

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Constant draw plays up the middle and throws two yards past the line of scrimmage. Have the Jets been taking lessons from the Patriots?

Argh.