The running down the field after an incompletion/fake interception and all of the celebrating after that wasn't a flag tho.
Week 8 Pats @Fins
- Thread starter TeddysBonefish
- Start date
Do the refs not all work for the same organization? We here 'points of emphasis' every year.. do we think that each group of refs acts differently/on their own?
Do you work with people who aren't very good at their job? Are you responsible for everything they do? Do you approach every problem and challenge the same way because you go through the same training? Do you perceive every conversation the exact same? Yes, they all work for the same org, but each crew is an autonomous decision making organism.
You’re probably wasting your time. When I started officiating a coach emailed my boss stating he had “undeniable proof” that I had fixed a game between 7 year olds. I didn’t even remember the game.
I've never worked for an organization worth billions, is televised every Sunday etc, etc. Also these are theoretically the best of the best.. not sure how many crews there are..but probably less than 100 people? And they definitely get directives..not saying it's how each game should go..but points of emphasis.. or meetings with teams to discuss what to look out for, etc. And I'm sure they have management from the NFL/NY that are giving them instructions.
I just don't believe every crew is autonomous from the NFL.. maybe from every other ref group, but def all under the same banner.
I mean.. not like we've ever had a pro ref fix or bet on a game... and I'm sure there was a lot of money on your game between 7 yr olds..
There are 30 coaches who are supposedly the best of the best, and they make a lot of boneheaded decisions during the course of their games. Size of an org/success of an org/ "Best talent" - none of it matters. Any collection of people is going to be difficult to manage and standardize one POV.
And the question here is what directives are they given - because some posters seem to think that those directives are "Call more 50/50 penalties on the Patriots this weekend to even out for Miami last week" and not "Focus on contact more than 5 yards off the line of scrimmage."
So the point of emphasis this week was for the refs working our game to be corrupt and make sure they called a slew of bogus penalties that favored the Dolphins?
Again, that’s a crime. A felony. You guys are suggesting that every week the NFL is engaged in a criminal conspiracy to fix games.
Parker helmet to helmet missed call was egregious. If called NE is set up in Miami territory. Still think Miami wins but officials with about 7 points of assistance for the home team.
As far as Miami getting rawdogged last week pretty sure Eagles fans would have the same attitude you have for this game.
Oh, and during this ongoing, multi-year, criminal conspiracy no one has ever said a thing. Not one league official or referee, or spouse or significant other has ever saw fit to alert law enforcement to this criminal conspiracy that affects hundreds of millions of dollars in wagers.
Only good part of the game was the free poached shrimp and potatoes and crab legs I got from a great Dolphins fan who knows that New Englanders enjoy seafood.
Tailgating was pretty fun. After Fins tied it up, it sucked (the actual game) ABTD
and free parking was way too far
Tailgating was pretty fun. After Fins tied it up, it sucked (the actual game) ABTD
and free parking was way too far
I’m officially on ABTD position. Like if they’re playing even the Stillers or the Ravens or the Chiefs at the AFcCg I’m rooting agains the Fins
Squish the fish
I think I hate Ross as much as Hill. I don’t want him to get any of the playoff money.
I’d love to see this play…but I’ll admit I’m a little wary because “Helmet to helmet” is not and never has been a foul
Wow, I mean, it doesn't get any more textbook than that. Crystal clear, right out in the open.
SJH is exactly right. Yep, the Pats would have lost anyway. Miami is materially better. But it doesn't take a Pats Homer to know that the head to head hit on Parker should have been called and was obvious during live action, and that JC Jackson did not commit PI on that play. The Zebras also picked up a flag for illegal man downfield when the replay clearly showed that one of the Fins linemen was in fact illegally down field. I didm't see that while it happened as I did with the first two. But it also looked quite egregious to me.
Whenever any fan base points out a series of bad calls and says that the refs were one sided or inept, it brings out the predictable response that the fans saying that are yahoos and whiny.
Sometimes the calls ARE one sided and wrong. This was one of those days.
Whenever any fan base points out a series of bad calls and says that the refs were one sided or inept, it brings out the predictable response that the fans saying that are yahoos and whiny.
Sometimes the calls ARE one sided and wrong. This was one of those days.
I’ve obviously seen many plays where flags were picked up, but not sure I have ever seen one picked up after the penalty was actually announced, like the one today.
I think that happened this year once in the Pats favor, actually. But usually when a flag is picked up, you can kind of understand why it happened. Here the replay showed why the flag was justified.
Yeah you don't need me to tell you that's a foul. But not because it's helmet to helmet, but because it's forcible contact to the head of a defenseless player.
That doesnt even account for a blatant late hit out of bounds on Henry on the 1st drive, that would have resulted in 15 yards and a 1st down.
Or the facemask on Rham on the next series that would have been 15 yards and a first down.
Both were on third downs, both ended the drives.
These were not questionable calls that weren't flagged, they were obvious and are called 99% of the time in the NFL.
I miss the old days when there was an incredible double standard for Gronk vs. all the other tight ends in the league. Brady would get weird grounding calls that no one else would ever be called for. Didn't matter. The Pats usually won anyway. This team? No chance to overcome bad officiating. Don't get me wrong. They would have lost today with perfect officiating, but yes, it was very, very bad.
I'm glad someone mentioned this, what a horseshit non call that was among others that were missed.
And how many times did Miami get away with motion penalties today, Belichick was losing his mind on the sidelines over it.
Miami clearly is the better team, they shredded that zone defense the Patriots were playing today, finding holes in it time after time after time, Hill and Waddle had their way all game long, both had over 100 yards receiving, then throw in the officiating.
The NFL has become unwatchable, it's not a very good product, period.
To be clear I am not saying in any way it is happening here, but for all the arguments of "nfl officials are in a massive conspiracy to rig a specific game for the league" and "it's all incompetence up and down the chain", this is a third possibility that should probably be considered as a possibility, albeit really on a conspiracy level for the info we have.I mean.. not like we've ever had a pro ref fix or bet on a game... and I'm sure there was a lot of money on your game between 7 yr olds..
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That's the kind of missed call that should result in the league sitting down with the officiating crew and possibly suspending the closest official for a game. Player safety is more important than any secondary considerations of such an action.
Nevermind that the officials jobs are collectively bargained, so the NFL has no ability to do such a thing. But how would sitting a guy down make him better for the next game? It's like when BB sits RBs who fumble. How does that make them less likely to fumble next time?
Yeah, a suspension alone probably won't make the ref better. It might, but probably won't. That said, I do think the NFL should do a much deeper week over week dive into understanding why this stuff happens. There's value in trying to figure out why this stuff happens. Every industry has to deal with how to help people stop making mistakes. On a superficial level, I guess it's easy to say "how do you tell someone not to make a mistake," but it's not as simple as that. NASA clearly thinks there are ways. So do surgeons and hospitals, etc. I'm sure the NFL does too, but when it comes to officiating, it seems to me it's getting worse and worse. I don't think it's because officials are getting worse. Maybe they are. But things are definitely deteriorating (as compared, for example, to hockey and baseball, where things are actually getting better -- not perfect but better.)
If the idea is player safety, and if you determine that calling penalties properly will make things incrementally safer, then you do what enterprises who do not want mistakes to be made in the future do about it. You have an after-action review, where you figure out what happened, why it happened, and what can be done about it. If you have an incompetent ref, then you get a new one. If mechanics are fucked up so that refs can't see these calls, and you care enough, you train on new mechanics. If the guy did everything by the book, but just didn't see it because the game is too fast, that's good information to have if nothing else to make informed decisions about replay, etc.
If our view is solely, yeah, refs kick calls, shit happens, and they aren't going to fix anything even if you talk to them, then you do nothing. And obviously, you can only do what the CBA permits, but the idea that you just throw your hands up because fuck it mistakes happen and can't be prevented, then you're pretty much ensuring mistakes will continue to happen.
I'm not saying you call the guy on the carpet and think yelling at him will make it better. Although, actually, it might. None of us knows why the guy whose responsibility to make the call kicked it. You probably have a better insight than the rest of us, but still won't know. Maybe the league does this kind of after-action review between seasons or whatever. I kind of like week to week analysis. Why did you call it this way. What did you think you saw. Why do you think you missed it. What can be done to make sure others don't miss it in the same way. Maybe the league doesn't care, because it doesn't want to acknowledge a problem. Maybe it thinks that whether or not you call the penalty won't improve player safety. They are not exactly transparent.
Don't mistake my post as to think I think officiating can't get better. I have LOADS of thoughts on how to do that. First and probably most important would be to fix the grading system. I believe Walt Anderson brought his system from the Big12 to the NFL, but it was based on the current NFL system of the time anyways. You get more of the behavior you reward.
Short version: You start with a maximum score and you get downgrades throughout the. You might get -2 for a call that is technically correct by rule, but they don't want it (it's coded as a MC, or marginal call). You get -3 for a NC (no call, or something you should have called but didn't). You get -4 for an IC (incorrect call). All of those can be adjusted up or down depending on severity, but adjustments are uncommon. +1 for an outstanding call is also possible but that might be one or two in an entire season. Over the course of the season the people with the most points left win. There's problems with that, including that it disincentivizes someone sticking their neck out to fix a problem. If I'm a Back Judge, I'm probably not supposed to see if the slot guy got held. The Line Judge should get it. But lets say the guy I'm supposed to watch was nearby and I see that a flag thrown is incorrect. Fuck that, I'm not risking my score by sticking my neck out there and getting involved.
Second would be to change the hiring process. Just hire the best people, full stop. No extra points if they are a bodybuilder, a woman or other underrepresented minority, or related to an NFL official. If an official has never even worked a bowl game in college, maybe they aren't one of the best officials available to hire? True story, I once heard an NFL officiating scout say "We've found that there's something in the blood, that if you are related to a good official you will be one as well". That's horseshit.
How does the grading system they use now work? I get the sense from listening to the former refs serving as analysts that you’re better off as a ref throwing a flag for roughing/unnecessary contact (like a perceived blow to the head of a defenseless receiver) and defensive holding/PI if you’re not sure, but you’re better off letting potential offensive holds go if you aren’t sure. The league wants to promote scoring and to minimize the risk of guys laying motionless on the field, basically.
Might be fodder for a new thread (not that I’m signing you up for it!), but your last few posts have piqued my interest. I sure wish the league was more transparent with the public about how it directs officials (eg, so called ‘points of emphasis’).
Might be fodder for a new thread (not that I’m signing you up for it!), but your last few posts have piqued my interest. I sure wish the league was more transparent with the public about how it directs officials (eg, so called ‘points of emphasis’).