Who plays 1B next year?

[Dewey'sCannon]

I don't get all the hate that continues to be directed at Hanley. Dude can rake. Had a great April, then got hurt and sucked. If he's healthy again (and no reason to think otherwise) he should rake again - I'd put the probability of that at 80%+. Defense is the issue, but it likely won't be as bad as many folks portray. OF was an experiment that clearly failed, but it was probably only a 50/50 play to start with given his complete lack of experience out there. 1B should be somewhat easier since it's an IF position. I think it's more likely than not (60%+) that he's at least adequate there - as some have noted, the biggest concern is probably the need to learn the footwork. But the guy played SS for 10 years - not at a GG-level, but he played it, so clearly he has some agility and can move his feet. It would seem to be an easier transition for a ss/3b to go to 1b than for a catcher, where footwork is pretty much limited to bunt plays and throws on SB attempts.

So unless he again suffers an unfortunate injury, I think the Sox will be happy with what they get from Hanley this year. I wish I could be as confident with Panda - I really don't know what to expect there, a return to career norms or a repeat of 2015. That one makes me want to close my eyes, cross my fingers and pray.

 

[nothumb]

Panda has no future as a 1B or a DH (well, maybe in spot duty for the latter, but otherwise no way). Any future speculation that revolves around him being a major contributor at either spot should be laughed out of the building. Nothing about his five year trend at the plate suggests his bat would play there in 2016, much less 2017 and beyond.

 

[NDame616]

I don't get all the hate that continues to be directed at Hanley. Dude can rake. Had a great April, then got hurt and sucked. If he's healthy again (and no reason to think otherwise) he should rake again - I'd put the probability of that at 80%+. Defense is the issue, but it likely won't be as bad as many folks portray. OF was an experiment that clearly failed, but it was probably only a 50/50 play to start with given his complete lack of experience out there. 1B should be somewhat easier since it's an IF position. I think it's more likely than not (60%+) that he's at least adequate there - as some have noted, the biggest concern is probably the need to learn the footwork. But the guy played SS for 10 years - not at a GG-level, but he played it, so clearly he has some agility and can move his feet. It would seem to be an easier transition for a ss/3b to go to 1b than for a catcher, where footwork is pretty much limited to bunt plays and throws on SB attempts.

So unless he again suffers an unfortunate injury, I think the Sox will be happy with what they get from Hanley this year. I wish I could be as confident with Panda - I really don't know what to expect there, a return to career norms or a repeat of 2015. That one makes me want to close my eyes, cross my fingers and pray.

You mean like he did in 2011, 2013, 2014 an 2015?

I like Hanley. His signing wasn't necessary, as we didn't have a place for him in the field (I suppose maybe internally they thought Ortiz's decline was going to happen faster)

Everyone's poster boy for injury-plagued seasons, Clay Buchholz, at least gives you healthy seasons every OTHER year. Hanley has had a full season ONCE since 2011 (with an honorable mention going to 2014 where he played 128 games but still ended up on the DL)

 

[nighthob]

Panda has no future as a 1B or a DH (well, maybe in spot duty for the latter, but otherwise no way). Any future speculation that revolves around him being a major contributor at either spot should be laughed out of the building. Nothing about his five year trend at the plate suggests his bat would play there in 2016, much less 2017 and beyond.

The problem is that his ballooning waistline suggests that he doesn't have much of a future at 3B either. And he doesn't really look like he'd have much value as a utilityman.

 

[soxhop411]

 

[BestGameEvah]

He said he's coming in at 234. Asked what he weighed at the end of last year, his repsonse was 237-238.
So he lost 3 or 4 pounds.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

His weight could vary by 3 or 4 pounds just depending on the time of day. He looks ok in that video. Frankly, I think the team should be less concerned about his weight per se and more about his overall conditioning, especially his flexibility. There are and have been plenty of big yet agile first basemen. Mostly, we want him to be able to move well and without hurting himself.

 

[O Captain! My Captain!]

Here he is from the side, I'd say he does look a bit slimmer no matter what amount of weight he actually lost.

Edit: and ok, he's at ST a week early, can we not call him lazy this year please?

 

[InsideTheParker]

What is that strange exercise he's doing, stepping over those barriers? Even I could do that. Did he have a leg or hip injury he's rehabbing?

 

[brandonchristensen]

What is that strange exercise he's doing, stepping over those barriers? Even I could do that. Did he have a leg or hip injury he's rehabbing?

He just got there.

It's just a range of motion thing, i'd imagine. Force your hips to open up a bit before getting into more strenuous stuff.

Hopefully he can pull it together, one final year of Ortiz/Ramirez would be fun to watch!

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

He just got there.

It's just a range of motion thing, i'd imagine. Force your hips to open up a bit before getting into more strenuous stuff.

Hopefully he can pull it together, one final year of Ortiz/Ramirez would be fun to watch!

Yeah - I would do the same type of drill when I was a collegiate high jumper. Loosens up the hips as part of a warmup before going onto more strenuous work.

 

[shaggydog2000]

He said he's coming in at 234. Asked what he weighed at the end of last year, his repsonse was 237-238.
So he lost 3 or 4 pounds.

The weight doesn't matter. The body composition and flexibility does. If he lost 14 lbs of fat, put on 10 lbs of muscle, and improved his range of motion, that would be a really good few months. Plenty of guys have been excellent 1st basemen weighing 234, and all 234 lb people are not the same level of athleticism.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

What is that strange exercise he's doing, stepping over those barriers? Even I could do that. Did he have a leg or hip injury he's rehabbing?

That's no exercise. He was practicing the 6 meter hurdles event.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

What is that strange exercise he's doing, stepping over those barriers? Even I could do that. Did he have a leg or hip injury he's rehabbing?

Lots of ball players do this same exercise when they warm up pregame in the OF, minus the hurdles (which just make you focus on getting your knee high as well as outward). Volleyball players do it routinely pregame. Any activity that requires you to squat and move quickly laterally - like getting down & ready at 1st base - benefits from this sort of stretching.

Good to see Hanley arrive early. I think Pete Abe said there are 16 or 17 non-catcher position players already there. Betts and X are there. No Pedey or Papi yet, that I've seen reported anyway. (Slackers.)

 

[InsideTheParker]

Thanks for all the explanations. I agree, it's good to see guys arriving, (what seems to me) FINALLY, even if it's early.

 

[YTF]

Like most of us, I really, really hope that this works out. I'm not in that category of those who believe ALL that they read, but I saw on Comcast that Hanley reported to Spring Training without a first baseman's mitt. Please God don't let that be true, but if it is....For the love of fuck Hanley you couldn't have broken in a freakin' glove in the past 4 1/2 months??? That said he's reported early and it's the most wonderful time of the year. BTW....not overly concerned about Hanley's weight, I just want him to be healthy and focused.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Like most of us, I really, really hope that this works out. I'm not in that category of those who believe ALL that they read, but I saw on Comcast that Hanley reported to Spring Training without a first baseman's mitt. Please God don't let that be true, but if it is....For the love of fuck Hanley you couldn't have broken in a freakin' glove in the past 4 1/2 months??? That said he's reported early and it's the most wonderful time of the year. BTW....not overly concerned about Hanley's weight, I just want him to be healthy and focused.

He did not report without a mitt. In fact, he's using a well-broken in mitt that once belonged to Mike Napoli. It is even embroidered with "NAP". Pete Abraham posted a photo of it today on twitter.

 

[NDame616]

The weight doesn't matter. The body composition and flexibility does. If he lost 14 lbs of fat, put on 10 lbs of muscle, and improved his range of motion, that would be a really good few months. Plenty of guys have been excellent 1st basemen weighing 234, and all 234 lb people are not the same level of athleticism.

It is absolutely impossible for someone to put on 10 lbs of muscle in a baseball off season without top of the market designer steroids.

 

[shaggydog2000]

It is absolutely impossible for someone to put on 10 lbs of muscle in a baseball off season without top of the market designer steroids.

I know exactly where you're coming from. Every time I read about a 40 year old celebrity adding 20 lbs of muscle for a movie, I know exactly how they did it. Steroids, amphetamines to cut fat, and only really putting on 10 lbs while taking off 30 to make the muscles all look bigger. Tom Hardy has actually come out and said this is exactly what actors do to play action heroes. I never used steroids myself, but as a former collegiate hammer thrower at a school with one of the best bio departments on the planet, I was pretty aware of exactly what world class athletes did to be competitive.
It depends on age, how muscular someone already is, and natural inclination for your body to put on muscle (which all have to do with testosterone to some extent, which of course is helped by external sources), but a 32 year old who maybe hasn't been trying that hard to put on muscle until relatively recently might be able to do it. He certainly seemed to bulk up a fair bit before last season. Whether that was natural or not is debatable, but he didn't get busted for anything, so let's pretend it was. I would say a 35+ year old would be really, really unlikely to put on that much weight. And a guy who had been training hard to gain muscle for years, like a pro football player, shot putter, or weight lifter would be unlikely to still have that much left to gain. Even with steroids there is only so much you can tear your muscles apart and have them rebuild in a week for your next workout. But a guy just entering his 30's who just started training hard a year or two ago, had naturally high levels of muscularity (and hence testosterone), hadn't maxed out his frame, and worked hard at it while still giving his body time to recover could do it cleanly. Maybe. It's always easier with chemical help, you're right. But not completely easy, you still have to go to the gym and do the hard work. Anabolic steroids just help you knit your wreck of a body back together more efficiently after you destroy it. But losing 15 lbs and putting on 10 isn't an outrageous accomplishment in 4 months. Just starting to take creatine can put on 5 lbs of lean mass in a few weeks. It's mostly water and not real muscle, but it's not fat or bone, and makes your peak power output higher. That and 5 lbs of actual muscle is very doable.

 

[Devizier]

Honestly, as long as Ramirez has been doing his best work to stay healthy -- rehabbing whatever needs to be rehabbed, strengthening core muscles and whatever else -- the rest is gravy. A healthy Ramirez has always produced at the plate. What he can do with the glove at first remains an open question, but I'm relatively optimistic.

 

[curly2]

He hardly looks like a natural, but at least he's working with Butter.

 

[LoweTek]

He did not report without a mitt. In fact, he's using a well-broken in mitt that once belonged to Mike Napoli. It is even embroidered with "NAP". Pete Abraham posted a photo of it today on twitter.

The story says he found an old Napoli glove in the clubhouse.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

It takes a few days to break in a glove with heavy usage. He arrived a week early. Maybe he figured he'd borrow one and talk with his teammates and coaches about the best kind to buy. Whatever. Not breaking in a glove over the winter = non-issue.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Hanley isn't buying his own first baseman's mitt. A couple new mitts will be delivered to him in Florida by Wilson or Rawlings or whomever. Often the stars have minor leaguers break in gloves for them, but I'm pretty sure someone will be breaking in Hanley's mitts. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with using Nap's old one. This couldn't be less of an issue.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Hanley isn't buying his own first baseman's mitt. A couple new mitts will be delivered to him in Florida by Wilson or Rawlings or whomever. Often the stars have minor leaguers break in gloves for them, but I'm pretty sure someone will be breaking in Hanley's mitts. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with using Nap's old one. This couldn't be less of an issue.

I wouldn't want anyone else spitting into my glove. Maybe Hanley specifies that. No spit.

 

[dbn]

He hardly looks like a natural, but at least he's working with Butter.

That ballboy clearly didn't work on his game in the offseason. No way he (the ballboy) goes north.

 

[O Captain! My Captain!]

He hardly looks like a natural, but at least he's working with Butter.

Solitude is the right way to do it. Hanley's a veteran doing things that will make him look like a (sub-)rookie. Freedom to fail is also freedom to learn and you're going to be able to do this best without a whole ton of judging eyes (except for the person taking video and posting it on twitter, of course).

 

[glennhoffmania]

Hanley isn't buying his own first baseman's mitt. A couple new mitts will be delivered to him in Florida by Wilson or Rawlings or whomever. Often the stars have minor leaguers break in gloves for them, but I'm pretty sure someone will be breaking in Hanley's mitts. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with using Nap's old one. This couldn't be less of an issue.

Seriously. Do people think he should've stopped in a Dick's over the winter and picked out a new glove? If this is the biggest issue with his transition to 1B we'll all be very happy.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

If we didn't have the left field shit show (albeit injured for a portion of the season) as his most recent defensive year, would people be collectively freaking out if his last year of defense was 2014 third base for the Dodgers? I know that last year doesn't speak much to effort to learn a new position. But he's been picking, receiving, and throwing around the infield his entire career. Once he gets the positioning and footwork down, I don't see the floor being all that horrible. I'm not delusional thinking he'll progress to where Napoli was at his 1B defensive peak, but I'm optimistic he's not going to suck.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

If we didn't have the left field shit show (albeit injured for a portion of the season) as his most recent defensive year, would people be collectively freaking out if his last year of defense was 2014 third base for the Dodgers? I know that last year doesn't speak much to effort to learn a new position. But he's been picking, receiving, and throwing around the infield his entire career. Once he gets the positioning and footwork down, I don't see the floor being all that horrible. I'm not delusional thinking he'll progress to where Napoli was at his 1B defensive peak, but I'm optimistic he's not going to suck.

I guess my counter to that would be that Hanley has never not sucked at any defensive position he has played. Maybe 1B will break the string, but I'm not sure why we should expect that.

 

[JimD]

If, in some parallel university, it was a beloved player like Pedey making the transition to first base, the story of his showing up early and using Napoli's old first baseman's glove would be treated as a colorful anecdote, if it was mentioned at all.

The moral of the story - don't run into a wall and screw up your shoulder during your first month in Boston.

 

[koufax37]

You mean like he did in 2011, 2013, 2014 an 2015?

I like Hanley. His signing wasn't necessary, as we didn't have a place for him in the field (I suppose maybe internally they thought Ortiz's decline was going to happen faster)

Everyone's poster boy for injury-plagued seasons, Clay Buchholz, at least gives you healthy seasons every OTHER year. Hanley has had a full season ONCE since 2011 (with an honorable mention going to 2014 where he played 128 games but still ended up on the DL)

Our primary concern with Hanley is not to play 162, since we have options to fill in in his absence whether 10 or 60 games. 145 beats 105, but we care more about his performance when playing.

Our primary concern is can he rake like he has most of his career with an exception to the post-injury 2015 and a limited 2011. My thoughts here are yes, and the reduced distraction of not having the outfield experiment and hoping he is healthy, along with his overall track record and age give me confidence that we will enjoy his bat.

Our second concern is can his defense at firstbase be somewhere from the acceptable to pretty good range. I don't think he will necessarily have a Mike Napoli transformation, but the Ernie Banks move (SS-to-1B) is a lot more logical and simple than the Robin Yount move (SS-to-OF), and his previous Cal Ripken/A-Rod move (SS-to-3B) was not a disaster.

After watching him struggle and perform worse than Manny and Williams, I am concerned until I see otherwise with the aspects of his position that are *new* and unlike SS/3B. Bunt coverage, throws to second, picking errant throws, and especially footwork around the bag are all areas that we will have to wait and see his progress, and probably can't have lofty expectations until he shows us something.

But unlike LF, where his shortcomings were on the primary aspects of defensive value, most of his defensive chances at first base will be fielding balls hit to him, which is not unlike SS/3B, and catching good throws from gold glove caliber teammates, which is pretty obvious and easy.

 

[themanwithoneredsock]

I don't see why we shouldn't be annoyed.

Hanley was the worst player in baseball last year, much of it due to a disastrous position change, and has a huge contract.

How the heck can he come into camp and so casually indicate that he hasn't put even one lick of work into his move to 1B yet? he doesn't even have a glove? that is crazy, imo. he should have been doing first baseman drills all offseason as a part of his regular workout.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I don't see why we shouldn't be annoyed.

Hanley was the worst player in baseball last year, much of it due to a disastrous position change, and has a huge contract.

How the heck can he come into camp and so casually indicate that he hasn't put even one lick of work into his move to 1B yet? he doesn't even have a glove? that is crazy, imo. he should have been doing first baseman drills all offseason as a part of his regular workout.

Can you link to where he stated that he hasn't put "one lick of work" in at 1B prior to arriving in camp? I don't recall hearing or reading anything to that effect (but admittedly, I'm not ravenously absorbing every article, tweet, and video available). Frankly though, if 6-7 weeks in camp working on the fundamentals of the position isn't enough for him to do the job passably, I doubt an additional three months of work in the off-season would be a big difference maker. After all, we're talking about a position that a lot of players have competently manned without benefit of any prior experience, spring training or otherwise.

And not having his own glove (yet) is indicative of nothing. For all we know, he had a glove to use during the off-season that wasn't his to keep and he, like pretty much all big leaguers, gets new gloves delivered at spring training. And if he does end up using that Napoli glove all year, who cares? A glove is a glove.

 

[themanwithoneredsock]

ah come on man. he's a kabillionaire. are you really spinning a story of him borrowing gloves? and why would any mlb player rely on borrowed gloves anyways?

this is crazy. he obviously didn't put a lick of 1b work in this offseason.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

ah come on man. he's a kabillionaire. are you really spinning a story of him borrowing gloves? and why would any mlb player rely on borrowed gloves anyways?

this is crazy. he obviously didn't put a lick of 1b work in this offseason.

Ramirez said he's been working with Red Sox executive Laz Gutierrez five days a week in Miami for the past five to six weeks.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14792932/hanley-ramirez-reports-boston-red-sox-training-facility-early

 

[absintheofmalaise]

ah come on man. he's a kabillionaire. are you really spinning a story of him borrowing gloves? and why would any mlb player rely on borrowed gloves anyways?

this is crazy. he obviously didn't put a lick of 1b work in this offseason.

If you're going to make statements like this I strongly suggest you back up with evidence.

 

[Pilgrim]

That article also says Napoli "gave" him the glove, which I assume means sometime last year. Hopefully we will have some Boston College scrimmages to insanely overanalyze soon.

 

[shaggydog2000]

I don't see why we shouldn't be annoyed.

Hanley was the worst player in baseball last year, much of it due to a disastrous position change, and has a huge contract.

How the heck can he come into camp and so casually indicate that he hasn't put even one lick of work into his move to 1B yet? he doesn't even have a glove? that is crazy, imo. he should have been doing first baseman drills all offseason as a part of his regular workout.

It's not like he showed up and just picked a glove off the ground and start using it. Napoli isn't here any more. Hanley must have borrowed it last year when he first started working out at 1st. And he has been doing off season drills. Just because you're not doing work in front of a camera doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Let's move on people. Hopefully, he's learned his lesson. Thanks.

 

[glennhoffmania]

I think the bigger issue here is why Napoli didn't take the glove with him. How the hell did he work out over the winter? Cleveland fans must be losing their minds over their new 1B not giving a shit about gloves until spring training. Tito has clearly lost the clubhouse.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Since 1B is furthest to the left on the defensive spectrum, shouldn't all the rending of clothes wait until HR demonstrates the impact? Plus, whatever happens, he's bound to get better as the season progresses - unless the hatred for this move is based in reality.

 

[themanwithoneredsock]

- guy signs massive contract
- guy doesn't put in a lick of work to learn LF
- guy is the worst player in baseball
- guy throws in the towel and the team sends him home midseason
- guy promises he's committed to learning 1b and coming into camp in better shape this year
- guy shows up in the exact same shape as last year, without a 1b glove


i mean, screw this guy.

 

[InsideTheParker]

- guy signs massive contract
- guy doesn't put in a lick of work to learn LF
- guy is the worst player in baseball
- guy throws in the towel and the team sends him home midseason
- guy promises he's committed to learning 1b and coming into camp in better shape this year
- guy shows up in the exact same shape as last year, without a 1b glove


i mean, screw this guy.

If you're going to make statements like this I strongly suggest you back up with evidence.

Let's move on people. Hopefully, he's learned his lesson. Thanks.

Hey, MWORS, Abs was being a nice guy. Why not read and learn?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Time for him to go to Kilgore's playground in the sky

 

[brandonchristensen]

get in front of the ball, Hanley!

 

[absintheofmalaise]

- guy signs massive contract
- guy doesn't put in a lick of work to learn LF
- guy is the worst player in baseball
- guy throws in the towel and the team sends him home midseason
- guy promises he's committed to learning 1b and coming into camp in better shape this year
- guy shows up in the exact same shape as last year, without a 1b glove


i mean, screw this guy.

You were warned about posting this kind of unsubstantiated crap earlier in the thread. This is on top of other warnings you've been given. This is what happens when advice is not heeded.

 

[effectivelywild]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14792932/hanley-ramirez-reports-boston-red-sox-training-facility-early

I love it when sportswriters try to use stats they don't completely understand. "Instead, advanced metrics showed he was the worst defensive player in baseball, and allowed 19 runs to score." Did "allowed 19 runs to score" sounds like a weird way to try to work in a -19 DRS rating? I mean, I guess its vaguely accurate, just seems like a really awkward attempt to incorporate a stat.

 

[Montana Fan]

This is the best chance to get him into the regular lineup this season. My concern as a former 1b/c at Forestville LL, is his footwork. He doesn't look to be too coordinated. I think he'll be above average at fielding groundballs, fine at receiving pickoff throws and will be better at scooping short throws than expected. Besides learning how to work with the pitcher on balls hit to his right and turning two from 1b, what items will most earn Butter his 2016 salary?

 

[Al Zarilla]

This is the best chance to get him into the regular lineup this season. My concern as a former 1b/c at Forestville LL, is his footwork. He doesn't look to be too coordinated. I think he'll be above average at fielding groundballs, fine at receiving pickoff throws and will be better at scooping short throws than expected. Besides learning how to work with the pitcher on balls hit to his right and turning two from 1b, what items will most earn Butter his 2016 salary?

Re footwork, the guy has played close to a thousand games at SS. That's a lot of plays at the second base bag on forces and DPs. Nobody ever accused him of being anywhere near a gold glove SS but he couldn't have been too much of a stumblebutt. Also, even Fangraphs is using the term "eye test" somewhat now, and my eye test of Hanley in quite a few games with the Dodgers against the Giants was that he didn't look bad at short or third. His limited range was his biggest problem, which his UZR numbers bear out. My biggest concern is going to be his handling of throws from the other infielders. I guess we all have our own fears about how he's going to mess up.