Why Does the Media Hate Belichick?

dynomite

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Stitch01 said:
He'd probably have you summarily executed before answering these.  Don't get me wrong, they're good questions, but I think there's no chance he's answering specific questions that include the word "Buffalo" with anything more than platitudes.
Not to pick on you, Stitch, but as someone who managed to listen to most of his mid-week (Wednesday at 11am, right?) press conferences last year, I think this is just not true. These are the kind of questions Belichick absolutely does answer, and I think it's a shame that people assume the guy will never answer anything ever. (Indeed, if I had to name the one person who has taught me the most about football, Belichick is probably who I would name)

Obviously he won't come out and say what the Patriots are going to DO in the game, but he's absolutely happy to discuss what the other team HAS DONE ("Yeah, sometimes they're in the Wide 9, sometimes they bring the sub package in," etc.) and what makes it effective.

Here's a direct example of that from the mid-week presser the week of the Vikings game. He doesn't say exactly what the Pats are going to do, but he's happy to discuss What makes playing against Norv Turner difficult:

Q: You talked yesterday about how Norv Turner likes to motion and shift a lot. Defensively, how much of that is the offense trying to get the defense to show what it is doing? Is there a chess game there in terms of you want to react, but you dont want to show them how youre reacting?

BB: Theres probably a little bit of that. I think its more of kind of what Norv has always done. He has his core, the core parts of his offense and just shifting and moving around makes it harder to recognize them. It looks like one thing and then they motion or shift and its something else. You get your defense trained to recognize a certain look or certain alignment and then that gets taken away from you and you have to refocus on something else. So, a lot of times its hard to recognize the play that theyre running until right before, right when the ball is snapped. When you see the play, you look at it and say, Theres that play, but you dont have the opportunity to really hone in on it because its kind of disguised with the motion and the shifting. Thats, I think, kind of been a trademark of his offenses going all the way back to Dallas, San Diego, Oakland, Washington, Cleveland.
http://m.patriots.com/news/article-1/Bill-Belichick-Press-Conference-Transcript-Patterson-is-obviously-an-explosive-guy/2ed6da28-b860-4bcf-9bbb-077424b64dfb
 

Van Everyman

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I think the real reason the media "hates Bill Belichick" is related to the "he won't give us anything" and "he's a dick" arguments ... but it's not quite that simple.

Today's media has changed in two fundamental ways. First, it's based on generating interest quickly. Secondly, writers are now expected to have a "point of view" – a Twitter account that expresses opinions informed by public information, hearsay and background reporting.

In many ways it's nothing like the world that Ron Borges inhabited twenty years ago.

Belichick doesn't help reporters with the former not because he's a jerk but because he is just disinterested in it. It's just not really in his interest at all. He just likes football. That's it. All the rest of the responsibilities that come with the job are obligations nothing more. The quicker he handles the media, the more time he can focus on football.

Even if he did want to play the game, it wouldn't matter. Belichick's areas of interest—film analysis and tackle technique—are only click-bait to hardcore gamers and there just aren't that many of them.
 

crystalline

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I'm not sure that Belichick just focuses in the game and ignores the media and that's why he doesn't answer questions.

He's way too intentional about everything to do that. In the same way Gronk and Moss are occasionally greenlighted to speak, Belichick has thought this through. I think he has intentionally decided to answer football questions because he wants the media to talk about football and not stupid made up "human interest" storylines. Which is all sports entertainment "journalism" is. ESPN and the NFL network and print "journalists" are all about storylines about the player of the week overcoming adversity/finishing career/gun-slinging etc. or the team facing its demise/proving doubters wrong. Its all cookie cutter tripe that has nothing to do with conveying facts, and is all about feeding people tired human interest lines.

I am personally shocked that Belichick has failed. He is trying to get the media to talk about football and has just abjectly failed. Those guys and girls have no desire to write about football. (Except for Reiss). It's like a theater of the absurd in that press conf room.
 

Quiddity

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Belichick makes zero effort to mask his disdain for the media and their dumb questions. This is his right, but if he played the game a little bit with the press, he'd be given a lot more love. Look no further than Brady who rarely says much of substance but who never embarrasses the press.

A part of me loves how BB makes no attempt to hide his contempt for dumb questions, but it would be really easy to suck it up for five minutes and put on a good face. He just doesn't care enough to bother.
I don't particularly blame him given the way the media has treated him, especially during 2007 when a completely insignificant violation of video taping from the wrong spot turned into the Spygate fiasco and the media spent the majority of time that season ignoring a historic season and spending all their time on that and "running up the score"-gate.


The reason the media treats Belichick in the way it does seems pretty obvious to me.
1)The article said it better than I could. He doesn't make it easy for them to do their job like a Parcells or Rex Ryan does and he has fired or traded away sources of reporters which they haven't been able to get over.
2)Belichick's success has completely humiliated many reporters and they simply can't get over it. Take Ron Borges. In 2001 he bashes Belichick to death for drafting players like Richard Seymour and Matt Light. Said players end up being very successful. He bashes Belichick to death for not giving Bledsoe the job back. Brady takes them to the Super Bowl and wins it. He bashes Belichick to death for trading Bledsoe. Patriots continue to be extremely successful with Brady instead. He bashes Belichick for drafting poorly. Belichick has a ton of success with drafting the already mentioned Seymour and Light, plus Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, Deion Branch, David Givens, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins and so on. Belichick wins two more Super Bowls. Borges is shown to be wrong at practically everything he says. Borges is one example, but there are many others. I don't doubt one bit that many of these media members are upset that Belichick's success has made them look foolish with all the opinions they have put out there that they have been proven to be completely wrong on.
3)Today's media is all about the clicks and the hot sports takes. Someone can become successful in today's media despite not doing much actual work and by being as sensational as possible. They also need it to fill the air time in today's oversaturated media environment with multiple local radio stations, local sports stations, web sites, newspapers, podcasts, blogs and so on (plus the nationals on top of that). I don't think Michael Felger holds any actual animosity towards Belichick. But by being a troll and contrarian he makes a name for himself and fills the time. Many others have taken the same stance.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I respect Belichick as much as anyone and i really really want to read the Holley books on the Patriots because I think one can find gems about management and life in there.

Having said that:
 
1. In the engagement ring thread everyone agreed that paying a ton of money for an engagement ring is stupid and irrational, but for one reason or another it's customary, so bite the bullet and give the money to get a good ring. I think the same should apply with the media. Yes, there's a ton of irrational and useless customs perveying the operation of the media, but really it isn't that big of a deal for Belichick to humor them.

I am not saying this is a problem for me by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think Belichick is really gaining much by adopting the demeanor he does against the media. As was said above, he could easily give generic answers the sort of Brady does and it wouldn't really give away anything other than make the scribes' lives a little bit easier.
 
2. NFL is a massively popular sport and although I am pretty sure there's a ton of people who are interested in learning the intricacies of the game, I very much doubt it's the majority. Most people don't have the time, the inclination or the patience to delve into the esoterics of football strategy. The kind of stories the mass media produce are meant to be light and accessible enough to satiate the public opinion's appetite about football.

I can see it from myself. I am a casual football fan. I respect people who delve more into it. But I read the stuff some other posters write about cover 1, motion shifts etc and I get a headache. I honestly don't have enough time or patience to get into football to that degree. But I will listen to PTI and Around the Horn as I am doing other stuff to kill some time and get somewhat on top of things.
 
3. Belichick's job is to win games. But the whole edifice of football is built in order to entertain people. The soap opera stuff and the pseudocontroversies are part of that. A smart quip won't hurt anyone.

Again. Not really a problem with Belichick, it's not a big deal for me either way. I just feel someone had to write the other side, because people here are dumbfounded that football geekery isn't the default media approach.
 

Devizier

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Honestly, does the media hate Belichick? I'm sure some do, but does it matter? I feel like people are too sensitive on this subject.
 

kolbitr

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I am pretty excited about this article, and the subject, as an English professor who, despite a lack of training for it, has an avocational interest in sports reporting, so many kudos to soxfan for tackling it.
 
Borges is one of the most interesting cases, to my mind; unlike Shaughnessy, who really does seem to enjoy a story of failure over even a modicum of success, and who disdains many of the players, not to mention the fans, about whom he writes and whom he writes for, Borges has a strong affection for players/athletes, especially the good ones (he has disdain in plenty for weakness of any stripe). My impression, however, has been that he has always viewed football through the prism of boxing; in other words, he views football as a series of mano-à-mano battles, combat between gladiators in pads and helmets, and has little interest in, or patience for, notions of group effort and success. Despite the fact that football seems to be one of the ultimate team sports, his columns have almost always focused on individual heroics, whether the hero be Bledsoe, or Seymour, or Mankins, or Brady. He is very quick to laud individual effort on behalf of players. This runs parallel with his relative disdain for praise of coaching, at least for coaches who would seek (or be given) praise for contributing to the success of their players more than boxing trainers do...thus, anyone who follows boxing knows that trainers are important, even essential, for individual boxer's success, but many casual fans of the sport could not name even two (perhaps I overstate this? I don't think so...), and fewer attribute even a tenth of praise to the boxing trainer as tends to accrue to the football coach.
 
One of Borges' 'goals' over the years has seemed to be to puncture Belichick's reputation, for RB believes that football coaches contribute less to a team's success in any given game than might seem to be conventional wisdom...certainly, he is offended by the label of 'genius' that gets applied to very successful football minds--this was, I think, most offensively in evidence when, during the same week that Steve Belichick dies (November 1926, 2005), Borges used a quote from him to attack Bill's reputation as a 'football genius'. Distasteful, but in keeping with Borges' general attitude toward coaches and toward BB in particular...
 
In this sense, he and BB would seem to be at odds. Obviously, Belichick knows that some players are better than others, and that supreme individual efforts often sway the outcome of a play, a series, even an entire game...but his mantra of 'do your job', his request for all players to put the team first (which is the real 'Patriot Way', unrelated to character concerns), and his apparent desire for them to take less money for the pleasure and privilege of winning *as a team*, are all opposed to the idea that a single individual effort should be praised, singled out, and illuminated to the detriment of the team as a whole. While he is happy to praise specific individuals at times, these very players are often the ones who are likely to be overlooked by the public (e.g., Matthew Slater), or who are being attacked by the media (e.g., Randy Moss), and whose team contributions might be ignored or overshadowed.

Edited to assign proper authorship! Mea culpa :)
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Jnai said:
I was under the impression Football Central was aiming to be more than an internet message board.
Because what this otherwise entirely compelling thread needs is intentionally muckraking passive-aggression. Cynicism is fun, thanks!
 

crystalline

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I appreciate your effort to analyze these guys; that was a good read. However I am reminded of this quote by Ray Bradbury, of people who analyze the meaning in his books:

After all, each story is a Rorschach Test, isnt it? and if people find beasties and bedbugs in my ink-splotches, I cannot prevent it, can I? They will insist on seeing them, anyway, and this is their privilege. Still, I wish people, quasi-intellectuals, did not try so hard to find the man under the old maids bed. More often than not, as we know, he simply isnt there. ~ Ray Bradbury
I'd disagree about what you say about CHB. I think he consciously writes whatever will pull in eyes and clicks. I think he sits at his keyboard on a weekly basis and thinks "What can I say that will draw the most attention?". If that means attacking Manny for being lazy or contradicting the column he wrote last month or writing the every-four-years " the World Cup sucks" story-- he's in. Truth and facts have nothing to do with it. Like Skip Bayless he's an entertainer playing a part.
 

lexrageorge

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Devizier said:
Honestly, does the media hate Belichick? I'm sure some do, but does it matter? I feel like people are too sensitive on this subject.
This is a really good point.  My perspective on this is that the perceived media "animosity" towards Belichick can be grouped into several categories:
 
1.) Media types looking for a story.  I'll use the Shelise Young story as an example.  I cannot comment on the accuracy of the story, but it appears she heard some juicy gossip about Dobson from a couple of her sources and decided to run with the story.  The sources may have overblown the incident, or she may have overblown it instead.  I don't think she "hates the coach"; I just think she's like any journalist these days simply looking for something to report.  
 
Volin's story last week on Belichick the GM's offseason personnel decisions is a similar example.  I don't think he was looking to write anything spiteful towards Belichick; the team didn't look all that hot at the time, and that will cause any beat reporter for any NFL team to Monday morning QB the offseason.  I was disappointed in Volin's article for other reasons, but I don't think Volin hates the coach either. In fact, Volin implied the opposite in his SoSH Q&A session. 
 
2.) The Mazz's and Shank's of the world.  They don't reserve their disdain solely for BB; hell, CHB just threw Julien and Chiarelli under the bus again for last season's playoff exit.  
 
3.) Journalist incompetence.  Tom Jackson.  Tomase.  Eric Wilbur (my apologies for mentioning that turd's name).  'Nuff said.  
 
4.) Then there are the guys that truly do hate Belichick to the point that they cannot report objectively on the Patriots.  I put Borges in this category, although he is not alone.  With Borges the hatred is clearly due to the fact that Belichick feels he has no reason to kowtow to the reporters during the press conferences, as well as the fact that he traded away Borges' favorite source of locker room scoops.  Similarly, there are still some naive NY reporters that think Belichick owes a debt to them for bolting the Jets for the Pats.  Perhaps in a different environment guys like Borges would be called out more often for their clearly nonsense comments (insert Borges assessment of the Seymour/Light draft here), but media types will nearly always protect their own.  
 
I think most media types are in the first category; they want to report something new (after all, they are in the news media), and the Patriots struggling are clearly something new.  I'm guessing the true haters are nothing more than a vocal minority who just get noticed more when the chips are down. 
 
As for Belichick's attitude towards the media, I think Brady may have summarized it best during last week's WEEI appearance:  there is no benefit to bringing team matters to the attention to those that cannot do anything about it.  The media cannot do anything about Gronk's knee, Solder's struggles, Dobson's performance, Brady's deep ball, or Welker's drops.  So why discuss any of those issues with the media?  Belichick does not have Rex Ryan's personality, so why should BB attempt to play the media the same way?  Boston not that long ago had a Rex Ryan wannabe in Bobby Valentine, and I don't recall that working out all that well for anyone involved. 
 
I'm sure Belichick is aware the "nice guy" Pete Carroll was heavily criticized by the local media during his time here.  Being nice and forthcoming to the media is not going to earn the coach any good will when the team has a down year.  
 

soxfan121

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kolbitr said:
I am pretty excited about this article, and the subject, as an English professor who, despite a lack of training for it, has an avocational interest in sports reporting, so many kudos to Rev for tackling it.
 
Terrific post. One small clarification: Football Central policy is that the author does not edit or publish (while forum integration is off/being refined) their own work. 
 
Reverend was the Lead Editor for this piece; I am the author. So while it would certainly be terrible without Rev's excellent editing (and Dog's, Schofield's, etc.) he is not the writer. If he was, it would be approximately 1645% better. 
 
To address a question up thread, I did attempt to contact Manza Young via twitter (phone calls...how last century) and her response was "I stand by my story". Manza Young is a generally very good reporter who has a source she believes. An attempt was made to present the story 'as it happened' - she reported, the Patriots denied, other members of the media declared that the truth "did not matter". Her denial of the Patriots denial added nothing to the narrative arc and was not included. 
 
Football Central is most definitely trying to be more than a "message board". The assumption that we (yep, I'm going plural here) did not carefully consider what ended up in the article or that we did not thoroughly research the issue is a faulty one. We did not attempt to contact Borges or Breer, as their comments and behavior are both dated and a well-established part of the public record. 
 
We welcome questions and comments - we're figuring this out as we go and SoSH community feedback is always appreciated. That said, any assumption that we are "unprofessional" because of our origins at a message board is fundamentally misguided. Lots of SoSH members also contribute in various other outlets and the assumption that we would not thoroughly research something or did not act in a professional manner is both inaccurate and wrong. That said, this is how we learn...no?
 

Jnai

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To address a question up thread, I did attempt to contact Manza Young via twitter (phone calls...how last century) and her response was "I stand by my story". Manza Young is a generally very good reporter who has a source she believes. An attempt was made to present the story 'as it happened' - she reported, the Patriots denied, other members of the media declared that the truth "did not matter". Her denial of the Patriots denial added nothing to the narrative arc and was not included.
 
This is absurd. If you want to interview someone, you don't do it over twitter. Has anyone on this board ever conducted an interview over twitter? I've never heard of it being done in sports, but maybe it's more common in sports other than baseball. Phone calls may seem "last century", but they're still largely how interviews are done, if not in person (or rarely, over email).
 
If you want to be part of the sports media - which it seems like "Football Central" wants to be - it seems like bad form to skewer your new colleagues for writing up stories without actually talking to the subjects of the article and then write a story without talking to the subjects of the article. It also seems somewhat odd to write stories wildly critical of the very people you will badly need to form friendships with as the process continues, though that's a different sort of argument.
 
I should say that I've enjoyed several of the other posts you've all written. The content is generally good. But this article seemed somewhat off the mark.
 

soxfan121

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Jnai said:
 
This is absurd. If you want to interview someone, you don't do it over twitter. Has anyone on this board ever conducted an interview over twitter? I've never heard of it being done in sports, but maybe it's more common in sports other than baseball. Phone calls may seem "last century", but they're still largely how interviews are done, if not in person (or rarely, over email).
 
If you want to be part of the sports media - which it seems like "Football Central" wants to be - it seems like bad form to skewer your new colleagues for writing up stories without actually talking to the subjects of the article and then write a story without talking to the subjects of the article. It also seems somewhat odd to write stories wildly critical of the very people you will badly need to form friendships with as the process continues, though that's a different sort of argument.
 
I should say that I've enjoyed several of the other posts you've all written. The content is generally good. But this article seemed somewhat off the mark.
 
It is absurd to consider FC "colleagues" with a paid reporter for the Boston Globe. We're volunteers.  
 
And it is absurd to suggest that a phone call from an unaccredited "internet blog" would make it to her desk. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]The idea that a phone call - that surely would have gone unanswered or rebuffed with a "I stand by my story as I said on twitter" - is ridiculous. As Rev pointed out yesterday. We made an effort to find out her response to the Patriots denial. It didn't materially change the facts. [/SIZE]
 
There was no need to "interview" Manza Young; her work can found online, her statements about the issue can be found online. What, EXACTLY, are questions you think should have been asked? Perhaps if you explain what you think an interview (that wouldn't have been given, but I'll play along) would have accomplished for the opinion piece?
 
I cannot understand your point here, but perhaps I'm missing something. Is it really your contention that FC should not publish anything critical of anyone without first calling them? Or that we should avoid criticizing anyone we want to "form friendships" with? Shit...we better pull down everything from the Kansas City game or no one from the Patriots will ever talk to us. 
 
Lastly, your characterization of "wildly critical" does not fit what it is actually written about Manza Young. It does fit with what it written about Ron Borges and Albert Breer. So...why this focus on Manza Young? The incident is presented in a factual manner. There's no name calling, no besmirching of her reputation, no attacks on her personal character - just a recitation of what happened. 
 
I really don't get it. 
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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I assume because it's standard journalistic protocol to give the subjects of critical articles an opportunity to refute a critical take on past events or opinions, to add context, or to give their side of the story.  To do otherwise is considered a hack job, and is usually done by someone who has their own agenda in writing the article other than seeking a better truth about the item of public interest.  This is especially true when writing about something inherently subjective - in this case, Manza Young's inner thoughts and opinions and beliefs.  Who could possibly say what those are better than she herself?  But of course, they couldn't possibly add value to the piece.
 
This is a lot less true for something flagged as being an opinion piece, as you say.  But even for opinion pieces, I'd say that choice only works (from a fairness and journalistic-standards perspective) when all relevant facts truly are in the public sphere.  Her responses even to tough, leading questions, such as "Do you believe there is any substance to the view that Boston sports writers have an axe to grind with Bill Belichick?", or "In light of your writings A, B and C, could a reasonable person decide that you just plain didn't like Belichick and this has colored your views on him?", would be adding to the context of any article, even an opinion article.  To say nothing of questions she might have an insider's perspective on, such as "Why do you think Belichick has chosen to frequently give content-less, evasive answers in his press conferences?", or "Have you noticed any trend in the types or categories of questions that Belichick gives in-depth answers on, as opposed to the types of questions he gives minimal answer to?".  To do otherwise really is armchair psychology here - and I say that as someone who thinks the opinion piece in question is probably more right than it is wrong.
 

Reverend

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MentalDisabldLst said:
I assume because it's standard journalistic protocol to give the subjects of critical articles an opportunity to refute a critical take on past events or opinions, to add context, or to give their side of the story.  To do otherwise is considered a hack job, and is usually done by someone who has their own agenda in writing the article other than seeking a better truth about the item of public interest.  This is especially true when writing about something inherently subjective - in this case, Manza Young's inner thoughts and opinions and beliefs.  Who could possibly say what those are better than she herself?  But of course, they couldn't possibly add value to the piece.
 
This is a lot less true for something flagged as being an opinion piece, as you say.  But even for opinion pieces, I'd say that choice only works (from a fairness and journalistic-standards perspective) when all relevant facts truly are in the public sphere.  Her responses even to tough, leading questions, such as "Do you believe there is any substance to the view that Boston sports writers have an axe to grind with Bill Belichick?", or "In light of your writings A, B and C, could a reasonable person decide that you just plain didn't like Belichick and this has colored your views on him?", would be adding to the context of any article, even an opinion article.  To say nothing of questions she might have an insider's perspective on, such as "Why do you think Belichick has chosen to frequently give content-less, evasive answers in his press conferences?", or "Have you noticed any trend in the types or categories of questions that Belichick gives in-depth answers on, as opposed to the types of questions he gives minimal answer to?".  To do otherwise really is armchair psychology here - and I say that as someone who thinks the opinion piece in question is probably more right than it is wrong.
 
I'm interested in this subject and would like to hear more from you, jnai and others about this; going forward, we hope to develop various self-critical processes for such things.
 
Basically, I wonder about the bolded and about the value of access subject specific statements to begin with. First of all, Manza Young already has a platform and has made herself clear; it's not that there's a matter of confusion here but, rather, disagreement.
 
But even further, I wonder about the potentially corrupting influence of access. The Peter King thread is full of examples of this with respect to his reporting on the NFL characters themselves. In a piece about media members, that would seem to potentially hold for access and statements by media members as well. In effect, I guess I'm not sure I case much about what they say about their work any more than I care about self-serving statements made by politicians beyond what they've already stated for the record.
 
I mean, it's one thing to get the person's side of the story, but I don't think that is lacking here. Rather, an overview of what the person does is what the piece was about. I see it as analogous to the difference between describing what happened on the field and asking the players or coaches what they were trying to do; there might be value in the latter, but it doesn't preclude the potential value of the former. Similar to the political analogy I made above, if something goes on long enough--and this is what makes me insane about political pundits--at what point do you discredit claims that are consistently discredited. In this vein, I mean, check out this Boston Media Watch piece from 2005 (which sf121 had not seen when he wrote his, by the way)--this has been going on for 14 frickin' years?
 
Thoughts?
 

soxfan121

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MentalDisabldLst said:
I assume because it's standard journalistic protocol to give the subjects of critical articles an opportunity to refute a critical take on past events or opinions, to add context, or to give their side of the story.  To do otherwise is considered a hack job, and is usually done by someone who has their own agenda in writing the article other than seeking a better truth about the item of public interest.  This is especially true when writing about something inherently subjective - in this case, Manza Young's inner thoughts and opinions and beliefs.  Who could possibly say what those are better than she herself?  But of course, they couldn't possibly add value to the piece.
 
This is a lot less true for something flagged as being an opinion piece, as you say.  But even for opinion pieces, I'd say that choice only works (from a fairness and journalistic-standards perspective) when all relevant facts truly are in the public sphere.  Her responses even to tough, leading questions, such as "Do you believe there is any substance to the view that Boston sports writers have an axe to grind with Bill Belichick?", or "In light of your writings A, B and C, could a reasonable person decide that you just plain didn't like Belichick and this has colored your views on him?", would be adding to the context of any article, even an opinion article.  To say nothing of questions she might have an insider's perspective on, such as "Why do you think Belichick has chosen to frequently give content-less, evasive answers in his press conferences?", or "Have you noticed any trend in the types or categories of questions that Belichick gives in-depth answers on, as opposed to the types of questions he gives minimal answer to?".  To do otherwise really is armchair psychology here - and I say that as someone who thinks the opinion piece in question is probably more right than it is wrong.
 
This is the entirety of the section in which Manza Young is referenced: 
 
Shalise Manza Young, a Patriots beat reporter for 9 years, reported late last week that second-year receiver Aaron Dobson was deactivated (i.e. suspended) for the Patriots’ games in Weeks 3 and 4 because of a confrontation with offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. Belichick and Dobson both have said that the report is completely false. Manza Young is standing by her story and others see validity in her report, with 98.5 The Sports Hub radio host Marc Bertrand saying, “[The organization] can deny it all they want; I don’t believe them.”
 
 
At no point are her "inner thoughts, beliefs and opinions" referenced. It is a recitation of facts. Her response to the many people questioning the report is included. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Manza Young is never referred to again after that paragraph. There is literally nothing else to add to this section - her work is referenced, the Patriots denial of her report is mentioned, her response to that denial is noted. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]The quote at the end transitions the discussion to other media members and then we're onto discussing Borges, Breer and Belichick. [/SIZE]
 
I remain confused why this section that recounts facts (i.e. things that actually happened) is such an issue. If Jnai were defending Ron Borges here, there might be a point to be made. But exactly how "fair" does one need to be when recounting a set of facts that everyone with Google can check?
 

Ed Hillel

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I'm more confused by Manza Young than anything, provided I am unstanding correctly that she directly told you she stood by her Dobson story after she posted this on October 3rd, which is her last relevant public tweet on the subject:
 


I spoke to Aaron Dobson...he told me he didn't have an incident with McDaniels. we shook hands. sources can be wrong sometimes.
 
https://twitter.com/shalisemyoung/status/518086757704015872
 

Ed Hillel

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Super Nomario

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Ed Hillel said:
I'm more confused by Manza Young than anything, provided I am unstanding correctly that she directly told you she stood by her Dobson story after she posted this on October 3rd, which is her last relevant public tweet on the subject:
 
https://twitter.com/shalisemyoung/status/518086757704015872
It's not clear to me she's taking sides. The story she's standing behind is that "According to a league source, Dobson has been inactive for the last two games because he has had at least one loud disagreement with offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels." I have no doubt that that is true, and that a league source told her that. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that source is right - as SMY puts it, "sources can be wrong sometimes." On the other hand, she's not saying that her source is wrong this time.
 
It seems to fair to question to what extent she attempted to corroborate the initial source.
 

dynomite

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Ed Hillel said:
Also, for those that think he doesn't answer football-related questions, check out 13:35 when Reiss asks a smart football question and Belichick gives an extremely insightful answer. The problem is 99.9% of football fans don't understand what he's saying, so it's not going to make headlines.
 
http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Belichick-108-This-is-a-big-week-for-us/48610bc5-d68f-4245-8cc2-bd0d4d9229ba
Exactly.

Ask Bill what Schwartz is doing defensively in Buffalo, and he'll go into detail explaining exactly what kind of technique they use.

He's not going to add "and here's how we'll try to beat him," but he will absolutely answer questions related to the Xs and Os of football strategy in general.
 

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dynomite said:
Not to pick on you, Stitch, but as someone who managed to listen to most of his mid-week (Wednesday at 11am, right?) press conferences last year, I think this is just not true. These are the kind of questions Belichick absolutely does answer, and I think it's a shame that people assume the guy will never answer anything ever. (Indeed, if I had to name the one person who has taught me the most about football, Belichick is probably who I would name)

Obviously he won't come out and say what the Patriots are going to DO in the game, but he's absolutely happy to discuss what the other team HAS DONE ("Yeah, sometimes they're in the Wide 9, sometimes they bring the sub package in," etc.) and what makes it effective.

Here's a direct example of that from the mid-week presser the week of the Vikings game. He doesn't say exactly what the Pats are going to do, but he's happy to discuss What makes playing against Norv Turner difficult:

http://m.patriots.com/news/article-1/Bill-Belichick-Press-Conference-Transcript-Patterson-is-obviously-an-explosive-guy/2ed6da28-b860-4bcf-9bbb-077424b64dfb
Rev had it right with his correction, those questions were too specific for BB to answer, he's not going to talk about specific tactical adjusements.
 
 Obviously never going to happen, but I think he'd be much happier and we'd all get more out of it, reporters included, if we just bagged the weekly press conferences and let BB just do a video primer or column each week on the opposing team.  Press conference format is just not great for getting across the information that's worth getting across
 

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Stitch01 said:
Rev had it right with his correction, those questions were too specific for BB to answer, he's not going to talk about specific tactical adjusements.
 
 Obviously never going to happen, but I think he'd be much happier and we'd all get more out of it, reporters included, if we just bagged the weekly press conferences and let BB just do a video primer or column each week on the opposing team.  Press conference format is just not great for getting across the information that's worth getting across
 
Soooo... "Fuck you, Dynomite"?
 

Stitch01

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Far from it Im agreeing with his broad point.  These were Rev's corrections.
 
1. Bill, could you tell us a bit about the shift in the league from using Cover-2 to more Cover-1 and Cover-3 and how teams think about the timing of rolling coverages to disguise what defensive concepts they are employing?
2. Bill, wide 9 alignment obviously helps take away outside runs but seems to make the interior very vulnerable; isn't this a risky gambit unless you have the perfect personnel, or are there schemes people can use to hedge against the risk?
 
 
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I think he'd settle for a "Bill, could you tell us about a play or scheme at some point in NFL history that you think is underrated and was actually genius, and explain it to us?"
 
I mean, they could ask that every single week, Belichick would probably never repeat himself, and you could write books about the stuff he'd say.
 

EricFeczko

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Super Nomario said:
It's not clear to me she's taking sides. The story she's standing behind is that "According to a league source, Dobson has been inactive for the last two games because he has had at least one loud disagreement with offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels." I have no doubt that that is true, and that a league source told her that. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that source is right - as SMY puts it, "sources can be wrong sometimes." On the other hand, she's not saying that her source is wrong this time.
 
It seems to fair to question to what extent she attempted to corroborate the initial source.
This is the crux of the criticsm here, and why sports journalism is often an oxymoron. A professional, responsible, journalist corroborates information from a source with other pieces of evidence in order to further the accuracy of the report. A journalist that serves as a mouthpiece for their sources isn't.
One should protect the identity of one's sources, but not necessarily the content.
 

twibnotes

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MentalDisabldLst said:
I think he'd settle for a "Bill, could you tell us about a play or scheme at some point in NFL history that you think is underrated and was actually genius, and explain it to us?"
 
I mean, they could ask that every single week, Belichick would probably never repeat himself, and you could write books about the stuff he'd say.
This stuff is great for documentaries and bios, but cmon. I'd love to see the sports media take it up a notch, but some of their dumb questions are asked bc it's what fans want to know. If there is an aspect of BB's press conference act that I find obnoxious, it's the fact that on some level BB isn't being short with the media. He's being short with the fans who pay his salary. I posted earlier that we fans care more about wins than snippets, but sometimes BB's answers are so over the top rude and short that it does seem childish and unappreciative of the fact that he gets paid handsomely to run a football team...and the people who make it possible do enjoy getting answers to questions, even the dumb ones.
 

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EricFeczko said:
This is the crux of the criticsm here, and why sports journalism is often an oxymoron. A professional, responsible, journalist corroborates information from a source with other pieces of evidence in order to further the accuracy of the report. A journalist that serves as a mouthpiece for their sources isn't.
One should protect the identity of one's sources, but not necessarily the content.
 
 

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twibnotes said:
This stuff is great for documentaries and bios, but cmon. I'd love to see the sports media take it up a notch, but some of their dumb questions are asked bc it's what fans want to know. If there is an aspect of BB's press conference act that I find obnoxious, it's the fact that on some level BB isn't being short with the media. He's being short with the fans who pay his salary. I posted earlier that we fans care more about wins than snippets, but sometimes BB's answers are so over the top rude and short that it does seem childish and unappreciative of the fact that he gets paid handsomely to run a football team...and the people who make it possible do enjoy getting answers to questions, even the dumb ones.
 
I agree with this in principle, but I wonder if "the fans" here have turned on this, at least with respect to Belichick. I mean, most of the Pats fans I know at this point watch or listen to Belichick press conferences and utterly revel in the performance art he puts out.
 
So as a generalization, yeah, but personally, I enjoy the shit out of what he's doing. I'd be curious to know how the numbers break out (impossible to figure out) as to who would want him to change his approach.
 
And no I'm not suggesting a frickin' poll. :)
 

twibnotes

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There is no Rev said:
 
I agree with this in principle, but I wonder if "the fans" here have turned on this, at least with respect to Belichick. I mean, most of the Pats fans I know at this point watch or listen to Belichick press conferences and utterly revel in the performance art he puts out.
 
So as a generalization, yeah, but personally, I enjoy the shit out of what he's doing. I'd be curious to know how the numbers break out (impossible to figure out) as to who would want him to change his approach.
 
And no I'm not suggesting a frickin' poll. :)
That's a great point. I think when they're winning, his act is funny. When they're not, it's annoying.

(So, usually it's funny)
 
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twibnotes said:
This stuff is great for documentaries and bios, but cmon. I'd love to see the sports media take it up a notch, but some of their dumb questions are asked bc it's what fans want to know. If there is an aspect of BB's press conference act that I find obnoxious, it's the fact that on some level BB isn't being short with the media. He's being short with the fans who pay his salary. I posted earlier that we fans care more about wins than snippets, but sometimes BB's answers are so over the top rude and short that it does seem childish and unappreciative of the fact that he gets paid handsomely to run a football team...and the people who make it possible do enjoy getting answers to questions, even the dumb ones.
 
"what fans want to know" (allegedly, since I think the general public, even the football-watching public, is less dumb than the sports coverage makes it out to be) isn't synonymous with "what players/coaches/management should talk about".  Anything on the list of "the stuff BB doesn't answer" (post #24 was half tongue-in-cheek, but my list is a decent starting point) is there because answering honestly might end up being detrimental to the team.  If "what fans want to know" overlaps with "the stuff BB doesn't answer", then it can and should be met with something other than an honest answer, because the interests of the team trump the interests of sportswriters.  Sorry.  The fact that 31 other head coaches aren't as committed to this idea, or are better liars than Belichick so they try dissembling from time to time, doesn't change that fact.
 
He gets paid handsomely to run a football team.  He is, without exaggeration, the best in the world at doing so.  Has it occurred to you that his success might be partially because of, rather than in spite of, his resistance to questions that seek little other than to stir up shit?
 

twibnotes

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MentalDisabldLst said:
 
He gets paid handsomely to run a football team.  He is, without exaggeration, the best in the world at doing so.  Has it occurred to you that his success might be partially because of, rather than in spite of, his resistance to questions that seek little other than to stir up shit?
Oh please. It's not binary. He could be meaningfully more gracious and accommodating and still reveal nothing of any substance.
 

EricFeczko

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There is no Rev said:
I apologize, but I'm not sure I follow what you mean by this post here. Are you referring to the Ramirez debacle before he got traded? Or are you referring to the globe piece that reported on Ramirez as a player as an example of bad journalism? Or did my comment not make any sense at all, and you are posting a picture of Ramirez to suggest that I'm sounding like him? 
Would you mind clarifying a bit?
 

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twibnotes said:
This stuff is great for documentaries and bios, but cmon. I'd love to see the sports media take it up a notch, but some of their dumb questions are asked bc it's what fans want to know. If there is an aspect of BB's press conference act that I find obnoxious, it's the fact that on some level BB isn't being short with the media. He's being short with the fans who pay his salary. I posted earlier that we fans care more about wins than snippets, but sometimes BB's answers are so over the top rude and short that it does seem childish and unappreciative of the fact that he gets paid handsomely to run a football team...and the people who make it possible do enjoy getting answers to questions, even the dumb ones.
 
But he gives them nothing. They sit in that room and basically waste hours upon hours getting NOTHING. They've been sitting there for years getting nothing and know their typical high school drama questions about how players feel about each other will get them nothing. Even if just for their own education why not just throw some question out there that they know would illicit intelligent and fascinating responses.
 
I'm not really sure where to start on the "fans who pay his salary" perspective. That seems thin. I don't see why he owes anyone anything. You have a problem with him? Complain to Kraft. Ask for an equally competent coach who also gets into the drama with his players and works the media room every week. Good luck with that. There isn't one alive on this planet.
 

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EricFeczko said:
I apologize, but I'm not sure I follow what you mean by this post here. Are you referring to the Ramirez debacle before he got traded? Or are you referring to the globe piece that reported on Ramirez as a player as an example of bad journalism? Or did my comment not make any sense at all, and you are posting a picture of Ramirez to suggest that I'm sounding like him? 
Would you mind clarifying a bit?
 
I'm pretty sure he meant you crushed that thing over the fence with the greatest of ease. 
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
I'm pretty sure he meant you crushed that thing over the fence with the greatest of ease. 
 
This. I usually use Manny turning on the ball--maybe I should get back to basics.
 

twibnotes

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Comfortably Lomb said:
 
I'm not really sure where to start on the "fans who pay his salary" perspective. That seems thin. I don't see why he owes anyone anything. You have a problem with him? Complain to Kraft. Ask for an equally competent coach who also gets into the drama with his players and works the media room every week. Good luck with that. There isn't one alive on this planet.
Why does a simple point, that BB could be more gracious and accommodating without hurting the team or straining himself, need to be drawn out to such ridiculous extremes.

Does BB owe the fans a better approach? No - I think we all agree that he's delivered more than we can ask for as fans

Is Kraft going to replace him bc of this issue? Of course not

Is it kind of obnoxious how he, as you put it, gives them (and therefore us) nothing? Yes. No reason he couldn't be a little more accommodating
 

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I sort of agree with the point made above, I get more pure entertainment at this point out of him stonewalling the idiots that comprise the majority of the media than I would out of coachspeak telling us nothing in a more friendly manner. 
 
What was more entertaining last week, watching him say we're onto Cincinnati eight times while a reporter half blew a gasket because BB wouldn't answer the GM/on the field equivalent of when did you stop beating your wife or his 100th evaluation of a player on the Patriots roster that included him talking about how no one worked harder than player X, who had came in and did a good job and strived to improve (I sort of got a kick out of Reiss, who I like, going back and quoting BB's training camp comments on Thompkins as part of his post release analysis. BB uses that description for basically every player he's asked about)
 

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I'm not sure that Belichick just focuses in the game and ignores the media and that's why he doesn't answer questions.
Late responding to this. But that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that Belichick is like a lot of business leaders that more or less see engagement with the media as a zero sum game. It can only complicate the job at hand, which is to run the business.

Belichick is smart enough, however, to realize that not engaging at all (as he did in Cleveland) is actually worse than engaging in a controlled, reserved way (which, BTW, he has only been able to do because he has won; you only need to look at the reports that he and Gasper had it out after the Cincy game to know that the stress of the week had gotten to him a bit).

So as Holley wrote in Patriot Reign, Belichick has interns give him a daily binder of clips and transcriptions of local sports radio that he reads while he's on the treadmill. I still remember my mind being blown as I was reading that – that Belichick actually studies what the media is saying about him and basically has all of his pat answers and stonewalling more or less worked out in advance.

But at the end of the day he'd rather do almost anything else than speak to the media. To the extent that he strategically deploys a Gronk or a Moss from time to time to speak to the media doesn't suggest that he cares about it – it only means that he's learned a little along the way.
 

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Van Everyman said:
So as Holley wrote in Patriot Reign, Belichick has interns give him a daily binder of clips and transcriptions of local sports radio that he reads while he's on the treadmill. I still remember my mind being blown as I was reading that – that Belichick actually studies what the media is saying about him and basically has all of his pat answers and stonewalling more or less worked out in advance.
 
I've been having a conversation with SMY on twitter about coach preparation for interviews, after Doug Marrone's pregnant pause today when asked about how his locker room is dealing with the QB change. 
 
Marrone's answer to the question was ".........ummm, I think you have to ask them."
 
So, Marrone issued hunting licenses to the media with his players names on them. THAT'S awesome. 
 
Isn't the FAR better answer "we're on to New England"?
 

twibnotes

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Does gracious and accomodating help the team winfootball games? No. So why do you care?
I care much less about it than I do about winning games but who among us Pats fans wouldn't like to hear him answer a few questions. If asked about Brady's performance, it would be cool to hear him offer his thoughts instead of just saying "team played well."

Look, it's not a big deal compared to all the good things, but I think it's obvious BB is a smart enough guy to be a little more accommodating without hurting the team.

Above all, I think it hurts his legacy a bit that so many of the media hate him. That bums me out bc he's obviously a special coach and sports figure.
 

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Belichick has made a conscious decision to try to get the media to write about football strategy and tactics, by only giving answers to those questions. In this, he has failed.
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
I've been having a conversation with SMY on twitter about coach preparation for interviews, after Doug Marrone's pregnant pause today when asked about how his locker room is dealing with the QB change. 
 
Marrone's answer to the question was ".........ummm, I think you have to ask them."
 
So, Marrone issued hunting licenses to the media with his players names on them. THAT'S awesome. 
 
Isn't the FAR better answer "we're on to New England"?
As someone who watched Marrone slowly meltdown over his 4 years at Syracuse, it's no surprise that he bungled that question.

Although it's kind of remarkable that he hasn't learned how to deal with the media. Say what you will about BB, but he damn well learned after Cleveland.
 

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Mark Schofield said:
Having spent the better part of the last 96 hours looking at Buffalo film, here are two questions I'd love to ask him if I were in the room tomorrow:
 
1. Buffalo's secondary does a great job of rolling their coverage just at the snap. What are your thoughts on 1: Rolling the coverage prior to the snap defensively and 2: working with the quarterback to identify the coverage pre-snap?
 
2. Buffalo's defensive front utilizes a wide 9 alignment along both defensive ends, making it difficult to run on the edges but requiring the linebackers to fill the off-tackle gap. Does this scheme force you alter pass protection or blocking assignments upfront?
 
Maybe gameplanish in a sense, but a chance for Professor Belichick to take us all to school.  
Belichick actually touches on #2 briefly at about 7:25 of this video (posted by Ed Hillel in another thread):
 
http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Belichick-108-This-is-a-big-week-for-us/48610bc5-d68f-4245-8cc2-bd0d4d9229ba#/media-center/videos/Belichick_1010_Moving_on_toward_Buffalo/cb9ee0bf-7deb-4658-b99d-8813ea8499f7
 
"We all know, they play the ends wide. It's hard to get outside, so you've gotta deal with the linebackers and the inside defensive linemen."
 
EDIT: A little more at 13:45, where the talks about how Pettine did more over fronts last year and Schwartz runs more wide-9 with 3 off-the-ball LBs.
 

gryoung

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8slim said:
As someone who watched Marrone slowly meltdown over his 4 years at Syracuse, it's no surprise that he bungled that question.

Although it's kind of remarkable that he hasn't learned how to deal with the media. Say what you will about BB, but he damn well learned after Cleveland.
 
Interesting.  I thought he had the 'cuse heading in the right direction when he left for the NFL $$$.
 

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gryoung said:
 
Interesting.  I thought he had the 'cuse heading in the right direction when he left for the NFL $$$.
He did. Was talking about his demeanor towards the media. He went from being gregarious in year 1 to a miserable prick by year 4.
 

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I found this headline on ESPN hilarious:
 
Darrelle Revis won't say whether he'll shadow Sammy Watkins
 

Buffalo Bills rookie wide receiver Sammy Watkins said he “found out” that the Patriots will have cornerback Darrelle Revis follow him around the field on Sunday. 
 
In the tight-knit Patriots organization, information like this doesn’t typically make it out, especially to the opposing team. 
 
Revis laughed about Watkins' claim that he will shadow him like he did Bengals wide receiver A.J. Green. 
 
“I can’t tell you the game plan,” Revis laughed. “I’m looking forward to the game on Sunday. I’m looking forward to going out there and getting a win. 
 
 
 

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That Rosevelt Colvin moment. I remember the 180 degree roll as BB came out of mandatory media mode was striking.

I think the non-answers are just as natural to Coach Belichick as a lineman not crossing his own feet while blocking.

Bill breaks his stride. You just have to give him a good reason to do it.