Windows 11, Why and Why Not

InsideTheParker

persists in error
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Jul 15, 2005
36,543
Pioneer Valley
Microsoft has started bugging me to change to Win11. I am happy with Win10, now that I've personalized it, and none of the touted features of the new OS appeals to me except "increased security." Are most people using it? Is is possible to move that huge Start Menu off of the middle of the background page? I hate the look of that. The marketing refers to better video and sound, but I wonder if I would still be limited by my slow DSL internet and not be able to take advantage of it. Also, I worry about a new OS gobbling up the bandwidth that my husband and I share and use for movie and music apps.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
Apr 3, 2001
43,468
Mtigawi
You are not being delinquent if you stick with Win10. With that said, all of the things that you asked are possible and it will not take materially more or less bandwidth than 10.
 

cgori

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Oct 2, 2004
3,658
SF, CA
Only to that last point - Win11 should not take any more or less bandwidth other than when you are actually downloading the update to Win11 itself, a one-time thing. After that it'll be essentially the same as Win10 as far as bandwidth consumption.

At some future point (currently designated as October 2025) Win10 will no longer be supported.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
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Jul 20, 2005
6,664
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Microsoft has been promising smaller update files with Windows 11, so those would download quicker on your slow internet connection. But that and the nice Windows 11 features like the cleaned up File Explorer and Settings menus are not a compelling reason to upgrade now. You could do that when support expires for 10 or just wait until you get a new computer.
 
Jul 15, 2005
3,591
Chicago
I've been using it for a year now, and there are some conveniences: multiple desktop instances, ability to open new tabs in File Explorer. I like it. A lot smoother than previous versions
 

McDrew

Set Adrift on Memory Bliss
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Apr 11, 2006
3,912
Portland, OR
I've been a "service pack 1" upgrader since XP. The first big fix usually smoothes out the things that bug me.
 

Nick Kaufman

protector of human kind from spoilers
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Aug 2, 2003
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A Lost Time
Windows 11 is a no for me.

1. I use a vertical taskbar. Now that widescreen screens are the norm, if you mostly consume reading content and you aren't coding or doing video editing, a vertical taskbar makes more sense than the default horizontal one as it gives you a bit of extra space on the top and bottom to read whatever you 're reading.

Windows 11 doesn't support a vertical taskbar.

2. I use the quicklaunch toolbar, a habit I developed since windows ME or something. On my vertical taskbar, I can fit my 15 most used programs in the upper corner. Microsoft insists that pinning programs on the taskbar is more efficient. If I pin those same 15 programs on my taskbar using big icons, they will take 3/4s of the space.

Windows 11 has discontinued the quicklaunch toolbar.

3. I still use small taskbar buttons and I uncombine them. It's still better IMO than using thumbnails, because thumbails require a click. I can have a general overvirw of the programs by looking at the taskbar. The taskbar buttons were the original tabs! Nowadays Microsoft is bragging that it's adding tabs on file explorer -and good for them- while making the taskbar less tablike!

Windows 11 doesn't allow small taskbar buttons.

Part of the issue here is that I 've been using Windows since the early nineties. With time, one gets used to a certain workflow, a certain way of doing things. I freely admit that I may very well be an old fart who is set in his ways. I am only going to get worse in this regard.

Microsoft mission is ostensibly to keep developing and keep coming with innovations, in order to improve its products and make their ease of use better,. However, a lot of the times, it feels that they want to justify their presence.
I cannot deny that over the years, Microsoft has made some changes that were positive. But there are also a ton of things that just broke people's workflow for no other reason because Microsoft was chasing the next big thing or was trying to find new avenues of monetization.

I don't know what's going to happen. I don't want go to Linux, because that would feel like opening a new more complicated can of worms. As the joke that has a great deal of truth goes, people who use Linux are people who develop software for Linux!

Bottom line. I see myself using Windows 10 for the foreseeable future.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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Jul 27, 2007
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Microsoft usually improves UI when they make changes in my experience.

Windows 11 is a massive step backward in UI in my opinion. I have no clue who they're trying to appeal to with it.

Re resource consumption, I'd be more worried about a newer OS chewing up more memory and system performance. I wouldn't expect it to have any impact at all (outside of updates) on network bandwidth.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
2,536
I really don't see with all the Windows 10 installed Microsoft will stop supporting it in 2 years. More like 4 or 5.

I also have on 3 computers upgraded memory and switched to a solid state hard drive; my computers work as fast as I'll ever want them to work, few problems; I'll be damned if those changes still don't meet Windows 11s requirements.
 

LoweTek

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May 30, 2005
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Microsoft has been promising smaller update files with Windows 11, so those would download quicker on your slow internet connection.
I can tell you this is not true. While I haven't looked closely, the updates certainly seem larger and definitely take longer to download and install. I have two PCs and have been running it for about six months. I find it unremarkable and harmless. While there is no compelling reason to upgrade there is also, aside I guess from side taskbar support, no compelling reason not to update.

The reason it won't be available on a lot of older hardware is due to BIOS features which are required to run it. It's not like Win10 where you could work around a lot of the 'requirements' and just sort of force the update regardless of supposed compatibility. I got Windows 10 to work pretty well on a desktop nearly 15 years old by adding a cheap video card. No such option with Win11.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
36,543
Pioneer Valley
My husband is still happily using Win7, which lost support in 2020, I believe. I guess he's all "don't worry, be happy" about it, but I'm not that way. Thanks again, y'all, for all the info.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Sep 9, 2006
7,379
SS Botany Bay
My husband is still happily using Win7, which lost support in 2020, I believe. I guess he's all "don't worry, be happy" about it, but I'm not that way. Thanks again, y'all, for all the info.
I have an old Thinkpad T61 on standby that had Win7, but it had gotten a bit buggy with memory management so about 18 months ago I upgraded it to Win 8.1 with the shell extension. It's been good ever since, though that machine gets minimal usage, mostly for accessing old material and legacy programs. But I will not go beyond 8.1 with that machine. When it comes to Windows I'm an old fart, I have everything set to classic. If I can set it up the UI like Windows 3.1 I would.
 

AlNipper49

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Dope
Apr 3, 2001
43,468
Mtigawi
I have an old Thinkpad T61 on standby that had Win7, but it had gotten a bit buggy with memory management so about 18 months ago I upgraded it to Win 8.1 with the shell extension. It's been good ever since, though that machine gets minimal usage, mostly for accessing old material and legacy programs. But I will not go beyond 8.1 with that machine. When it comes to Windows I'm an old fart, I have everything set to classic. If I can set it up the UI like Windows 3.1 I would.
My laptop of choice is the Thinkpad x200/220. I've never been happier with a machine. They are ooooold now so what I do is throw Linux/Ubuntu on them and do something similar to this:

https://bytexd.com/how-to-make-ubuntu-look-and-feel-like-windows/
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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My laptop of choice is the Thinkpad x200/220. I've never been happier with a machine. They are ooooold now so what I do is throw Linux/Ubuntu on them and do something similar to this:

https://bytexd.com/how-to-make-ubuntu-look-and-feel-like-windows/
That's cool. I'll check it out. I love those old Thinkpads. I worked on them almost exclusively for about 12 years until I had to switch to MacOS for work around 2010 (prior to that I last worked on a Mac when I was forced into using a PowerPC in college, having been a DOS guy going back my original IBM 8088). Until last year, I hadn't touched a Thinkpad for about 3 years, and it immediately felt more comfortable than any other computer I have since used, despite its hardware limitations (and frankly, for most routine stuff, with its upgraded RAM and SSD it does just as well as my modern Apple rigs).
 

AlNipper49

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Apr 3, 2001
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That's cool. I'll check it out. I love those old Thinkpads. I worked on them almost exclusively for about 12 years until I had to switch to MacOS for work around 2010 (prior to that I last worked on a Mac when I was forced into using a PowerPC in college, having been a DOS guy going back my original IBM 8088). Until last year, I hadn't touched a Thinkpad for about 3 years, and it immediately felt more comfortable than any other computer I have since used, despite its hardware limitations (and frankly, for most routine stuff, with its upgraded RAM and SSD it does just as well as my modern Apple rigs).
They’re great. They are small but still have some weight to them. You can swap batteries out in like 4 seconds. Full size Ethernet port. You can drive a truck over one and it’ll still work.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
23,263
The 718
Another classic Thinkpad fan here. I found the switch to a Dell more jarring than a Mac/PC switch.
 

Bigdogx

lurker
Jul 21, 2020
69
My husband is still happily using Win7, which lost support in 2020, I believe. I guess he's all "don't worry, be happy" about it, but I'm not that way. Thanks again, y'all, for all the info.
Why, windows 10 is a far better O/S then windows 7 is, never mind the whole not supported and vulnerable thing. Windows 10 is also a completely free o/s which can be downloaded from microsoft and installed, both home and pro versions for no cost at all.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
Apr 3, 2001
43,468
Mtigawi
Speak of the devil, has anyone experienced this?

https://www.techradar.com/news/new-windows-11-update-fail-as-users-report-slow-boot-times-and-hobbled-ssd-speeds

Another reason to stick with Windows 10 (or earlier!)
Why? It's a patch. Windows 10 is more likely to get a shit patch than Windows 11 at this point. More development resources are being pointed at it. If it's really bad then simply remove it. We manage thousands of machines and have a process dedicated to patch confirmation and timing and nothing has changed in that regards since we started when Windows XP covered 99% of our machines that we manage. We also subscribe to a 3rd party service that does similar patch vetting. Bad patches sometimes do slip through even after thousands of hours testing.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Sep 9, 2006
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Why? It's a patch. Windows 10 is more likely to get a shit patch than Windows 11 at this point. More development resources are being pointed at it. If it's really bad then simply remove it. We manage thousands of machines and have a process dedicated to patch confirmation and timing and nothing has changed in that regards since we started when Windows XP covered 99% of our machines that we manage. We also subscribe to a 3rd party service that does similar patch vetting. Bad patches sometimes do slip through even after thousands of hours testing.
Oh I know, It's more a reflection of the consensus of the posters in this thread who stated they don't like Windows 11 for various reasons.
 

cgori

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2004
3,658
SF, CA
FWIW, I updated my laptop to Win11 the other day. It's been fine. Very little feels different once I tweaked a handful of settings.
 

voidfunkt

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 14, 2006
1,177
/dev/null
I'm a Linux-native guy (that works for Microsoft... go figure), but I boot Windows for gaming still since Linux gaming still isn't quite there.

I've had few problems with Win11 Pro but on balance I've preferred it to Windows 10 which I grew to accept and eventually like after switching from Win7.

Anywho, I still recommend folks just switch to Linux with XFCE if they want a desktop environment that never changes. I basically run something that looks and feels like it came out of 1995. I dont have to worry about some hot shot UI designer deciding they know better and reorganizing the entire desktop environment for like the 7th time in 20 years.

It's a foreign and different tool for many people but once you learn how to use it you're golden. Also you can look like a Hacker Dude with some terminal windows randomly pinned to corners of your desktop and the chick's love that.
 

TallerThanPedroia

Civilly Disobedient
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
22,455
Boston
Windows 11 is a no for me.

1. I use a vertical taskbar. Now that widescreen screens are the norm, if you mostly consume reading content and you aren't coding or doing video editing, a vertical taskbar makes more sense than the default horizontal one as it gives you a bit of extra space on the top and bottom to read whatever you 're reading.

Windows 11 doesn't support a vertical taskbar.

2. I use the quicklaunch toolbar, a habit I developed since windows ME or something. On my vertical taskbar, I can fit my 15 most used programs in the upper corner. Microsoft insists that pinning programs on the taskbar is more efficient. If I pin those same 15 programs on my taskbar using big icons, they will take 3/4s of the space.

Windows 11 has discontinued the quicklaunch toolbar.

3. I still use small taskbar buttons and I uncombine them. It's still better IMO than using thumbnails, because thumbails require a click. I can have a general overvirw of the programs by looking at the taskbar. The taskbar buttons were the original tabs! Nowadays Microsoft is bragging that it's adding tabs on file explorer -and good for them- while making the taskbar less tablike!

Windows 11 doesn't allow small taskbar buttons.

Part of the issue here is that I 've been using Windows since the early nineties. With time, one gets used to a certain workflow, a certain way of doing things. I freely admit that I may very well be an old fart who is set in his ways. I am only going to get worse in this regard.

Microsoft mission is ostensibly to keep developing and keep coming with innovations, in order to improve its products and make their ease of use better,. However, a lot of the times, it feels that they want to justify their presence.
I cannot deny that over the years, Microsoft has made some changes that were positive. But there are also a ton of things that just broke people's workflow for no other reason because Microsoft was chasing the next big thing or was trying to find new avenues of monetization.

I don't know what's going to happen. I don't want go to Linux, because that would feel like opening a new more complicated can of worms. As the joke that has a great deal of truth goes, people who use Linux are people who develop software for Linux!

Bottom line. I see myself using Windows 10 for the foreseeable future.
Right with you, except for the vertical taskbar. I also set the look to classic or whatever it's called.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
Apr 3, 2001
43,468
Mtigawi
  1. Right-click on the taskbar and select "Taskbar settings" from the context menu.
  2. In the Taskbar settings window, scroll down to the "Taskbar behaviors" section and click on the "Taskbar alignment" dropdown menu.
  3. Select "Left" or "Right" to align the taskbar vertically on the left or right side of the screen, respectively.
  4. If desired, you can also enable the "Show badges on taskbar" option to display app badges on the vertical taskbar.
  5. Once you have made your desired changes, close the Taskbar settings window to save your changes.
 

Nick Kaufman

protector of human kind from spoilers
Lifetime Member
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Aug 2, 2003
13,042
A Lost Time
  1. Right-click on the taskbar and select "Taskbar settings" from the context menu.
  2. In the Taskbar settings window, scroll down to the "Taskbar behaviors" section and click on the "Taskbar alignment" dropdown menu.
  3. Select "Left" or "Right" to align the taskbar vertically on the left or right side of the screen, respectively.
  4. If desired, you can also enable the "Show badges on taskbar" option to display app badges on the vertical taskbar.
  5. Once you have made your desired changes, close the Taskbar settings window to save your changes.
Is this new? I am fairly certain the only way to get a vertical taskbar is through a registry hack or by buying a program. The only thing you can do as far as I know is move the start button to the left.
 

PortlandSoxFan

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Jan 31, 2003
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What Nip posted are instructions to move the start button out of the center. But as far as I can see there are still no options for vertical taskbars? Which is really the only thing I miss.
 

jayhoz

Ronald Bartel
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Jul 19, 2005
16,875
What Nip posted are instructions to move the start button out of the center. But as far as I can see there are still no options for vertical taskbars? Which is really the only thing I miss.
Maybe it is a Windows version issue? If I right click the taskbar and choose settings I can choose where to put the taskbar.

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