Future Red Sox pitching coach Randy Niemann was also available.You're right, Orosco had pitched. So had McDowell, though.
Let me change my guess to Sid Fernandez.
Future Red Sox pitching coach Randy Niemann was also available.You're right, Orosco had pitched. So had McDowell, though.
Let me change my guess to Sid Fernandez.
Dick Williams is 1 - 2. Tito the same. Personally, I'd take Tito because he lasted eight seasons, and led us to two World Series titles. Dick Williams lasted just three, took us to one WS. Cora third, probably falling behind Williams because of this year. All the rest? Mediocre or worse.I saw RS manager rating in a post above. If we are going by essentially the last 50 ish years is the assumption that the top 2 are:
1. Tito
2. Cora
Is Cora not number 2? To round out the top 5, I would imagine some combo of Darrell Johnson, Dick Williams, and my favorite, Joe Morgan
You’re holding this year AGAINST Alex Cora? This team is aggressively mediocre and he’s got them on the precipice of the post season and close to 90 wins.Dick Williams is 1 - 2. Tito the same. Personally, I'd take Tito because he lasted eight seasons, and led us to two World Series titles. Dick Williams lasted just three, took us to one WS. Cora third, probably falling behind Williams because of this year. All the rest? Mediocre or worse.
edit, maybe Joe Cronin was good?
Trash cans versus Apple watchesHow does one distinguish between Cora and Farrell?
Were you going to share what you're talking about?Bump.
I mean, no matter what happens, this is an all-timer. One of the worst moves you’ll ever see.
Houck at 53 pitches and 5 perfect innings.Were you going to share what you're talking about?
And, for full context, with a bullpen full of overworked / mediocre options...and for the sake of a pinch hitter, with no runners on base, who has barely played since the All-Star break...in a critically important game. But it worked, I guess!Houck at 53 pitches and 5 perfect innings.
Let's wait and see how these guys who have pitched 2, 3 or 4 days in a row do tomorrow.But it worked, I guess!
Completely agree. I wrote that tongue-in-cheek...it was a terrible decision. Honestly, I'm stunned that the baseball gods didn't punish it they way they usually do in games like this. Maybe we'll all be grateful when Houck pitches the last 5 innings of extra innings during the Wild Card game.Let's wait and see how these guys who have pitched 2, 3 or 4 days in a row do tomorrow.
Ah.Houck at 53 pitches and 5 perfect innings.
I'd hope the ones out of the pen tomorrow are Whitlock, Pivetta, and Eddie.Let's wait and see how these guys who have pitched 2, 3 or 4 days in a row do tomorrow.
I hope it's Perez with a 14 run lead.I'd hope the ones out of the pen tomorrow are Whitlock, Pivetta, and Eddie.
Why limit yourself - I hope it is Plawecki with a 20 run lead.I hope it's Perez with a 14 run lead.
I thought at the time that having Pedro start the inning was defensible, and I still do. (Though obviously, letting Pedro think he was done was bad). It was leaving him in after any and all of those hits that was unforgivable. Never bringing Williamson in to that game was rough too.Honestly, this could be a list of 8 instead of 5, and 4 would be Little:
1) Starting the 8th
2) Left in after Jeter Double
3) Left in after Bernie Single
4) Left in after Matsui Double
Easily the worst-managed half inning in MLB history.
I agree with this. My brother and I were in his living room standing in front of the TV and one of us said exactly this when he came out for the 8th -- "Okay, it's Pedro with a 3-run lead. Pull him as soon as someone gets on base." As soon as Jeter was standing on 2nd base with 1 out we started talking about how good Williamson had been and felt like it had been a good gamble... and then I distinctly remember seeing the next hitter step into the box and both of us saying at the same time "Wait, WHAT?!?!"I thought at the time that having Pedro start the inning was defensible, and I still do. (Though obviously, letting Pedro think he was done was bad). It was leaving him in after any and all of those hits that was unforgivable. Never bringing Williamson in to that game was rough too.
Didn't Houck have a similar outing in which he imploded in the 6th?Houck at 53 pitches and 5 perfect innings.
I just compared Cora to Farrell to a friend earlier today ...How does one distinguish between Cora and Farrell?
Yes, he followed up 5 no hit innings about a month ago with: Home Run, HBP, HBP and was pulled (both ended up scoring), those 3 runs ended up playing a big part in their losing that game.Didn't Houck have a similar outing in which he imploded in the 6th?
Sure, but we also have a bullpen that implodes regularly and is beyond taxed. 53 pitches with 8 Ks through 5 is about as good as any pitcher can be pitching. If it’s not some edict from above, that would have a fireable offense we’s have talked about for years had things gone south. If this is indeed some organizational philosophy, it’s not a promising sign. There needs to be some context taken into consideration during gameplay.Didn't Houck have a similar outing in which he imploded in the 6th?
The fact that he was great through 5 has little to no relevance on if he would have been good in the 6th, "dealing" as a predictor of the next inning isn't a real thing. Arguing that it would have been a fireable offense if they lost is beyond insanity.Sure, but we also have a bullpen that implodes regularly and is beyond taxed. 53 pitches with 8 Ks through 5 is about as good as any pitcher can be pitching. If it’s not some edict from above, that would have a fireable offense we’s have talked about for years had things gone south. If this is indeed some organizational philosophy, it’s not a promising sign. There needs to be some context taken into consideration during gameplay.
I’m not arguing against you at all I’m just curious because I haven’t seen it. Is there evidence that “dealing” as a predictor isn’t a real thing? Some nights guys have it more than on other nights. If it hadn’t worked out, it wouldn’t be a fireable offense, but I still think it was dumb to not let him start the 6thThe fact that he was great through 5 has little to no relevance on if he would have been good in the 6th, "dealing" as a predictor of the next inning isn't a real thing. Arguing that it would have been a fireable offense if they lost is beyond insanity.
I'm not sure if the data itself has ever been published, but analytics writers have looked into it and referenced it. It comes up every time a manager pulls starter in the playoffs and the internet goes crazy. Russell Carlton recently wrote an article for BP that's behind a paywall about why the Blake Snell move was fine and will happen again and as part of his reasoning, in addition to the 3rd time through the order penalty which has been discussed a lot includes:I’m not arguing against you at all I’m just curious because I haven’t seen it. Is there evidence that “dealing” as a predictor isn’t a real thing? Some nights guys have it more than on other nights. If it hadn’t worked out, it wouldn’t be a fireable offense, but I still think it was dumb to not let him start the 6th
I thought there were legitimate reasons to pull Houck. Richards only going 1 was the move that I could not understand.Richards was very fresh, I was actually surprised he only went 1 inning.
Follow up, I tweeted Russell Carlton and the math is here, it's from a few years ago, but I doubt it's changed much since then.I’m not arguing against you at all I’m just curious because I haven’t seen it. Is there evidence that “dealing” as a predictor isn’t a real thing? Some nights guys have it more than on other nights. If it hadn’t worked out, it wouldn’t be a fireable offense, but I still think it was dumb to not let him start the 6th
Having Brice hit for himself was also incredibly perplexing.I thought there were legitimate reasons to pull Houck. Richards only going 1 was the move that I could not understand.
Loses it, he could've given up a worm-burner through the infield, followed by a bloop single. Neither of these are any indication that he's losing it so you don't pull him. 3 run blast. Game very likely over.Having Brice hit for himself was also incredibly perplexing.
How many pitchers who aren't that good have thrown no-hitters, or near no-hitters and just thrown the game of their life? It happens all the time. Houck could have done that, continued to pitch great. We have no idea - but to me it's worth finding out. If he loses it, you pull him.
Sure. A lot of things could happen. He could also have another perfect frame.Loses it, he could've given up a worm-burner through the infield, followed by a bloop single. Neither of these are any indication that he's losing it so you don't pull him. 3 run blast. Game very likely over.
Not many under the circumstances combining short rest and most recent short pitch counts. With the offense sucking, i dont think its worth the risk of "finding out." For me, anyway, it was defensible.People can disagree. But those who say it was obviously the wrong call are stuck on some other concern.Having Brice hit for himself was also incredibly perplexing.
How many pitchers who aren't that good have thrown no-hitters, or near no-hitters and just thrown the game of their life? It happens all the time. Houck could have done that, continued to pitch great. We have no idea - but to me it's worth finding out. If he loses it, you pull him.
Huh. Cora thread hasn't been bumped in a few days.Getting out of that inning without more damage being done may turn out to be one of the key moments in the entire season.
Maybe we ought to wait until his first full post TJS season.We all know that Pedro was the worst in game decision. We also know that the Sale signing was the worst offseason signing. I’d argue it was worse than Matt Clement.
Matt Clement getting 3-24.5 is in the conversation for the worst offseason signing in Red Sox history?We all know that Pedro was the worst in game decision. We also know that the Sale signing was the worst offseason signing. I’d argue it was worse than Matt Clement.
Yeah 3/24 was grocery money for the Sox anyway. Not even in the conversation.Not sure anyone expected Clement, who pitched well enough in his first half season here to be named an All Star, to get hit off the head with a line drive. It's bad that his shoulder blew out the following season, but the contract was nowhere near the payroll killer that Sandoval's was, or Carl Crawford's could have been. His playoff start will obviously live in infamy, but the 2005 Sox weren't winning that series anyway, and Clement had nothing to do with David Wells giving up a huge home run the following game.
It was indeed a terrible signing, not because they gave Sale an extension per se, but because they gave him an extension right after a season in which he couldn't really pitch the last two months (used very sparingly) because he was significantly hurt, AND he had another year left on his team-friendly contract (plenty of time to see what he could do coming off an injured season, and then decide), AND they knew they were staring down Mookie's free agency, and would only break the bank for so many bajillion dollar contracts.Maybe we ought to wait until his first full post TJS season.