SO many posts ripping the team, ripping the manager, ripping the GM and/or ownership. Did they just become dreadful? Or is this the Price you Pay sometimes for success?
And 2012 before.Well, what did we do in 2014 and 2015 after 2013?
The difference being that in 2012, the previous title was in 2007, and they'd gone through *a lot* since then. They very easily could have repeated in 2008, and then we had all the drama of 2009, 2010 ("the bridge"), and 2011 (fried chicken and beer). They were a .500 team in 2012 until they rightly decided to punt in August, and the 2013 was a patchwork miracle akin to the 1996 Yankees.And 2012 before.
Edit: a (potentially) major difference though is that they sold off assets in order to get better in the future. We'll see if that comes to pass this year (hopefully not, actually)
I think this is pretty spot on.If the question is in the hypothetical scenario where I as a fan could determine the Red Sox' fate for the next three years and I was told that I could have them win a World Series only if they came in dead last the next two seasons, I would certainly make that deal. Flags fly forever.
If the question is does winning the World Series let management/players off the hook for poor performance the following year(s), however, I would say mostly no. If you trade away a key prospect at the deadline for a major-league performer who helps the team win the WS, there is some leeway there if that deal overall looks bad in retrospect, but other than that I don't think the team should/could expect fans this year to say "well, they won the WS last year, so I'm not frustrated/annoyed that they suck this year."
Conveniently, that's when Chris Sale's extension expires.I have no complaints. A little disappointment so far, but I generally buy Simmons' 5-year grace period.
12. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions. For instance, the Pats could finish 0-80 over the next five years and I wouldn't say a peep. That's just the way it is. You win the Super Bowl, you go on cruise control for five years. Everything else is gravy.
As we discussed from 2012-16, from a team-building POV, there is nothing worse than coming in 1st place 4 straight years and not winning the WS and there is little better than winning a WS and then coming in last place the other three years.Here's a great Fangraphs blog from a few years ago basically asking the same question, about our own run from 2012-15 vs. the Tigers' 2011-14. Good arguments on both sides. I'll take the title and last place, but knowing that we made no such deal and shouldn't be falling off so quickly would still be a little hard to swallow (not that I have given up on this season by any means).
This is really all there is to it. I'm amazed over 25% would rather be "always competitive" than win.Put even more succinctly: Flags fly forever.
It's because a competitive team is more fun to watch than a non-competitive team, by a margin that is greater than the margin between a WS winner and a competitive team that falls a bit short.This is really all there is to it. I'm amazed over 25% would rather be "always competitive" than win.
Considering what it was like being a fan of this team from 1966 or so through 2003, winning a WS and then finishing in last place is fine with me.This is embarrassing. I’m not an entitled Yankees fan who demands a title every year. Or bust. But to be this pathetic is shocking.
On the other hand, I would sign up for last place for a title 10 out of 10 times. Titles are euphoria and last place is, bottom line, the same as second place. Either way, no euphoria.
And the plus is that if they irrevocably fall out of contention early, that will free me up to spend my time on other pursuits this summer. I’ve toyed with doing half marathon training and the hours away from the TV etc. could be invaluable for that.
I think Padres fans are different. I go to games there, and if they fall behind early, they all start talking about something else. “How about that surf today, and the 80 degree water.” “Barbecue later on?” Nobody is pissed like we’d be in a losing game. I swear to God, they’re happy no matter what the Padres do. All of them.Older fan here. I waited 35 years for the Sox to win the WS and it seemed that they would never win one during my lifetime. 2004 was worth 10+ years of suckage. To come back from 3-0 against the Yankees and then beating the Cardinals was almost like winning 2 WS.
You younger guys have been spoiled by the Sox winning 4 titles this century and the Patriots having the best run in NFL history. Try to imagine yourself being Padre fans.
Yep. I’d make this deal in a heartbeat.Put even more succinctly: Flags fly forever.
The water in San Diego is actually very cold. Tops out in the mid 60s. Basically the same as the Cape.I think Padres fans are different. I go to games there, and if they fall behind early, they all start talking about something else. “How about that surf today, and the 80 degree water.”.
Actually, last year it did hit low 80s. I was there, in it. But you're right, generally 60s but they do get into the low 70s some days in August most years.The water in San Diego is actually very cold. Tops out in the mid 60s. Basically the same as the Cape.
Older fan here. I waited 35 years for the Sox to win the WS and it seemed that they would never win one during my lifetime. 2004 was worth 10+ years of suckage. To come back from 3-0 against the Yankees and then beating the Cardinals was almost like winning 2 WS.
You younger guys have been spoiled by the Sox winning 4 titles this century and the Patriots having the best run in NFL history. Try to imagine yourself being Padre fans.
Right, although the Pats 2005-2013 stretch, while enjoyable, almost got to a Braves type of situation, aside from the fact that the Pats had 3 titles in the bank at that point. Imagine a world in which the Butler pick doesn't happen. Is Brady still playing? Do they even have 4 titles? Who knows. 2010-2013 was especially painful. 4 straight byes, but only a 4-4 playoff record including a Super Bowl loss. Kind of the football equivalent of the 2011-2014 Tigers that were referenced in the above article. Contrasted to the Giants who missed the playoffs every year surrounding 2011 but won the title, not unlike the 2012-2015 Red Sox. I've loved every second of the Pats being competitive but the idea that they could still be stuck on 3 makes me feel extremely lucky - we'd all be pretty bummed at this point if that was the final Lombardi tally.Yep. I’d make this deal in a heartbeat.
That’s what makes the Patriots’ run so insane. They’ve given us a title once every three seasons, and the in-between years have been the kinds of seasons most franchises only dream about.
Yeah probably. The point simply being that we'd all take one title every three years even with a load of suck in-between. The Pats have won one title every three years and have been basically still the best team in the league during the in-between years. Which is....beyond incredible.Right, although the Pats 2005-2013 stretch, while enjoyable, almost got to a Braves type of situation, aside from the fact that the Pats had 3 titles in the bank at that point. Imagine a world in which the Butler pick doesn't happen. Is Brady still playing? Do they even have 4 titles? Who knows. 2010-2013 was especially painful. 4 straight byes, but only a 4-4 playoff record including a Super Bowl loss. Kind of the football equivalent of the 2011-2014 Tigers that were referenced in the above article. Contrasted to the Giants who missed the playoffs every year surrounding 2011 but won the title, not unlike the 2012-2015 Red Sox. I've loved every second of the Pats being competitive but the idea that they could still be stuck on 3 makes me feel extremely lucky - we'd all be pretty bummed at this point if that was the final Lombardi tally.
Price would fit right in on SOSH.Alex Speier @alexspeier 5h5 hours ago
David Price has been on talented teams that recovered from awful starts, as well as some that didn’t. What if the Sox don’t recover? Price: ‘We don’t play better, Mookie will be traded, JD will be traded... We need to play better. It needs to happen now.’
I believe that rather than the surfing and weather, the Pads being so non-competive year after year makes it difficult to become passionate about the team. I attended SDSU and just couldn't develope an interest in them. Other than Ozzie Smith and Dave Winfield, they had a bunch of guys that wouldn't have been good enough to play for other teams. The same time I was there, Fouts broke through and the Chargers became an elite team making them my favorite team ever sinceI think Padres fans are different. I go to games there, and if they fall behind early, they all start talking about something else. “How about that surf today, and the 80 degree water.” “Barbecue later on?” Nobody is pissed like we’d be in a losing game. I swear to God, they’re happy no matter what the Padres do. All of them.
As for us Red Sox fans, me in particular, sure, I voted a title for a last place finish, maybe two lasts, but when you get into (what’s looking like) a bad season, it still sucks and hurts. We expect better at this point. NBA and NHL seasons will be over in June, and then it’s nothing but baseball until September.
Then there’s salaries. We’re in an age when the top superstars want, and get up to about 70 times the minimum. When Williams played, his max salary was $125,000, about 20X the minimum. So what? Well, when Mookie is hitting right at the Mendoza Line and we all know he wants $35 million a year, big turnoff.
Dude should get paid what he can get. That's capitalism.Then there’s salaries. We’re in an age when the top superstars want, and get up to about 70 times the minimum. When Williams played, his max salary was $125,000, about 20X the minimum. So what? Well, when Mookie is hitting right at the Mendoza Line and we all know he wants $35 million a year, big turnoff.