2017 Patriots Only Trade Deadline Game Thread

Stitch01

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They're just so massively game script dependent that it's hard for me to see them going far.

Before the year Ed Hillel called the Jags as a potential Brady landing spot if the Pats moved on after the season. I admittedly thought it was silly at the time, not so much today.
 

RedOctober3829

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I’d seriously consider a Jimmy Graham for Nate Solder swap. Both are around the same salary cap hits and fit the need of the acquiring team. Waddle can step in and play for Solder and given the way Solder has played it wouldn’t be a big drop off.
 

Ed Hillel

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I’d seriously consider a Jimmy Graham for Nate Solder swap. Both are around the same salary cap hits and fit the need of the acquiring team. Waddle can step in and play for Solder and given the way Solder has played it wouldn’t be a big drop off.
I know it’s a business, but I wonder if Kraft would step in and stop this move. Solder would be moving cross country from his toddler who’s battling cancer in the best city to be doing so. I don’t know about that.
 

RedOctober3829

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PFT reporting that Patriots are willing to trade an RB for defensive help. Also, Bedard wrote an article mentioning the Solder-for-Graham trade idea I brought up this morning but says the same thing that Ed said about his child.
 

Ed Hillel

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PFT reporting that Patriots are willing to trade an RB for defensive help. Also, Bedard wrote an article mentioning the Solder-for-Graham trade idea I brought up this morning but says the same thing that Ed said about his child.
I just think it’s a bad idea. Solder has had a few bad games, but he’s taking too much flak. He’s been ok the past month or so, and with Cannon injured I don’t think Tackle is the spot you want to mess with. Brady will score well enough provided he’s not getting thrown on his ass every play.

Now, one of Lewis or Burkhead for a solid LB or DE? Sign me up. White would be fine, too, if the return is right.
 

RedOctober3829

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I just think it’s a bad idea. Solder has had a few bad games, but he’s taking too much flak. He’s been ok the past month or so, and with Cannon injured I don’t think Tackle is the spot you want to mess with. Brady will score well enough provided he’s not getting thrown on his ass every play.

Now, one of Lewis or Burkhead for a solid LB or DE? Sign me up. White would be fine, too, if the return is right.
I'm not advocating trading him because he's been a bad player. He's been an average LT. It just seems like they drafted his replacement in Tony Garcia and for this year Waddle can step in and do a good enough job. It would allow some work load to be taken off Gronk as no other TE can be counted on and help in the red area to have both Gronk and Graham especially if Hogan has to miss time.
 
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Good Lord, how do we name RBs we'd be willing to deal and mention ANY of those guys before shouting the (possibly misspelled) name Gillislee to the rafters?

James White is going nowhere, possibly ever.

Dion Lewis is our best all around player at the position, and also our best pure running RB, but is a possible sell-high-before-he-gets-hurt candidate.

Burkhead has burst and receiving talent, and has been injured so recently that it's unlikely teams would be comfortable trading for him.

Gillislee is the one to deal, and not just because I like him least. I suspect the majority of teams would see him as the most "real" running back to trade for.
 

Ed Hillel

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I don’t think anyone is gonna trade anything of value for Mike Gilleslie. The Patriots don’t need all of White, Lewis, and Burkhead this season and I have 100% confidence they can find someone in the offseason to replace one if need be. What they can’t do via draft or free agency now is bring on a solid/good LB or DE, which is of far bigger need. Marsh is a bum and the LB corp is hanging by a thread. McClellin will help a bit, but he’s nothing to write home about himself. If there’s someone who can cover and create some pressure blitzing, I’d gladly give up Burkhead. Gilleslie, too, of course, but I doubt that happens.

A dream scenario is something like Burkhead and a late round pick for Peppers. Not sure the Panthers have anyone to take Peppers’ snaps, though.
 

Van Everyman

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Their RB depth is about the only thing keeping their offense from stalling horribly given the fact that pretty soon Matthew Slater is going to be taking meaningful snaps at WR.

What about Marty? Rodgers is dead and he just announced he’s retiring next year.
 

Super Nomario

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I don’t think anyone is gonna trade anything of value for Mike Gilleslie. The Patriots don’t need all of White, Lewis, and Burkhead this season and I have 100% confidence they can find someone in the offseason to replace one if need be. What they can’t do via draft or free agency now is bring on a solid/good LB or DE, which is of far bigger need. Marsh is a bum and the LB corp is hanging by a thread. McClellin will help a bit, but he’s nothing to write home about himself. If there’s someone who can cover and create some pressure blitzing, I’d gladly give up Burkhead. Gilleslie, too, of course, but I doubt that happens.

A dream scenario is something like Burkhead and a late round pick for Peppers. Not sure the Panthers have anyone to take Peppers’ snaps, though.
Why are the Panthers sellers? They 5-3 now.

The problem with all these player-for-player trade ideas is that, to the extent they have on-field value to the Patriots, you don't want to get rid of them, and to the extent they don't have on-field value for the Patriots, they don't have trade value. A seller looking to build for the future probably isn't that interested in impending FAs like Solder, Burkhead, or Lewis, and a buyer looking to win this year probably doesn't want to give up on-field contributors.

For a lot of reasons (some of them dumb), what, 95% of trades are for draft picks? That seems way more likely here. Why lose RB depth or your LT instead of just giving up a pick?
 

Ed Hillel

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Their RB depth is about the only thing keeping their offense from stalling horribly given the fact that pretty soon Matthew Slater is going to be taking meaningful snaps at WR.

What about Marty? Rodgers is dead and he just announced he’s retiring next year.
The RB are going to be playing 15 snaps a game versus a guy who can come on and play most defensive snaps. Sure, RB depth is nice, but DE is a far more pressing need. They get no pressure and Marsh struggles mightily to contain.
Why are the Panthers sellers? They 5-3 now.
They aren’t sellers. Burkhead is a good player who can help them now and eat up snaps. Peppers is old, but he’s playing so well they probably wouldn’t even consider, even with an added draft pick.

A one for one has to be with another contender that basically mirrors needs. Not so easy to find, as you mentioned.
 

RedOctober3829

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Why are the Panthers sellers? They 5-3 now.
For a lot of reasons (some of them dumb), what, 95% of trades are for draft picks? That seems way more likely here. Why lose RB depth or your LT instead of just giving up a pick?
In the Patriots case they owe either their 3rd or 4th rd pick to Philly and 5th/7th rd picks to Seattle. They should recoup 2 comp picks but should they be trading away picks given their roster depth? A player for player trade makes the most sense for them this year.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Or they send someone like Burkhead or Lewis to a RB needy team then send that pick to a team for defensive help.
 

Super Nomario

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In the Patriots case they owe either their 3rd or 4th rd pick to Philly and 5th/7th rd picks to Seattle. They should recoup 2 comp picks but should they be trading away picks given their roster depth? A player for player trade makes the most sense for them this year.
Is roster depth a plus or minus in your estimation? I guess it depends on the position.

I'd be way more worried about trading away Solder and blowing a game this year because I got bad LT play than missing out on a draft pick. RB is probably less problematic but also unlikely to return anything of value. Plus, Solder, Lewis, and Burkhead are FAs after the season, so there's comp pick potential (though that wouldn't be until the 2019 draft).

For a variety of reasons - some smart, some of them dumb - there's friction against player trades and teams rarely get good return. As far as I can tell, the last player-for-player trade was more than a year ago, Brandon Thomas for Jeremy Kerley. Dorial Green-Beckham for Dennis Kelly around the same timeframe. The last big trade that had players moving both directions was Chandler Jones for Jon Cooper + 2nd. Go back another year and you get Kenny Stills for Dannell Ellerbe + 3rd, Kiko Alonso for Shady McCoy, and Jimmy Graham + 4th for Max Unger + 1st.

Bottom line: player-for-player trades are rare and it's going to be way easier to find a trading partner if we dangle draft picks. Even if you wanted to functionally do this, it would be easier to trade Solder to a team that needed a LT for draft picks and make a different move, possibly involving some of those picks, for an edge player.
 

DanoooME

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Seattle got Sheldon Richardson and a swap of 7th rounders for Jermaine Kearse and a 2nd rounder in September.
 

Super Nomario

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Seattle got Sheldon Richardson and a swap of 7th rounders for Jermaine Kearse and a 2nd rounder in September.
OK, thanks. It doesn't look like PFR's trade finder has anything in it since the last draft. It might be missing more (Brissett for Dorsett comes to mind), but I don't think it materially changes the point that player-for-player trades are rare.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Now, one of Lewis or Burkhead for a solid LB or DE? Sign me up. White would be fine, too, if the return is right.
Burkhead is UNTOUCHABLE.

But seriously, Burkhead is signed for 1 yr/3.15m. Lewis is on last year of a 2 yr/1.6m.

Size of contract does not preclude a trade but if anyone goes, which I doubt, it should be Lewis.
 
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Saints Rest

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The threat title suggests only rumors and news, presumably from pundits. But I see a lot of SOSH-centric speculation. In that vein, the Giants seem to be the perfect sell vehicle. I saw some JAson Pierre Paul rumors a couple weeks back that seemed to be challenging due to cap issues.
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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Am I crazy for for thinking - just roll with what we have? Should we shake up the roster when we are somehow, someway, 6-2 at the break? I want guys who know the system. You could bring in a marginal talent upgrade, but if they're cracking the Patriots' playbook for the first time in week 9, how good are they really gonna be? I can't believe I am defending Kyle Van Noy and Elandon Roberts, but they at least know the calls and have been in the system for a couple years.

Also, I worry about depleting the running back corps. That's the one position, with all the injuries, that is still a surplus for us. Let's use it to our advantage. Lewis and Burkhead have both been dinged up in the past, so it's nice to have White and Gilislee in a rotation. They all have have different strengths. If Hogan is out for an extended period, it's one of three main things we're gonna have to rely on the rest of the year: Gronk, Cooks, and the versatility of our 4 RBs.

As for Solder, I say keep him, and echo the thoughts above (i.e. Kraft nixing it) He's got the pedigree, and hasn't been that bad recently. And I'm sketchy about changing your LT mid-season.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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The threat title suggests only rumors and news, presumably from pundits. But I see a lot of SOSH-centric speculation. In that vein, the Giants seem to be the perfect sell vehicle. I saw some JAson Pierre Paul rumors a couple weeks back that seemed to be challenging due to cap issues.
We're ALL pundits, Saints. Post away.
 

DJnVa

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As EHH said, the Pats system seems hard for guys to pick up that get here and have a training camp. Not sure how much help we can get now and work them in. The bye week definitely helps a bit though, so we shall see.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think the most likely pass rushing addition has to be Nink un-retiring for the stretch run.

Speculation is that this is, well, not ridiculous to speculate about http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/26/patriots-rob-ninkovich-donta-hightower-injury/

If we assume he kept in good shape, but obviously not game-shape, how many weeks out would be he from being able to play a role? Would think it's 3-4, but perhaps less if only a spot role.
 

timelysarcasm

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The idea of Nink un-retiring does not excite me at all. He was starting to look old/slow when he retired, and now he's even older and now not in game shape.

We need quickness on the pass rush. Not sure we're going to get it, but that's where I'd target a trade.
 

DJnVa

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We're not going to trade for anyone exciting either though. It'll be someone that doesn't know the system at all, a depth guy if anything.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The fact Nink knows the system and, for example, won't lose the edge and allow someone to run for an 87 yard touchdown doesn't look sexy on TV (or in game threads) but it is how BB wins games. I hope he comes back, because I think he can be effective especially in a reduced role where he can go 'all out' each down he's in there.

I have not the slightest idea what shape (physical or mental) he is in to jump back in. I also agree he was looking slower (though still effective) and perhaps the team let him know he was done prior to his retirement--who knows.
 

Super Nomario

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Hoomanawanui was traded for Hicks straight up in 2015, I believe.
This trade and Brissett-for-Dorsett (as well as some other examples, like DGB for Kelly or Thomas for Kerley) fall in the category of both teams trading someone they likely were going to cut anyway. Hoomanawanui was a healthy scratch right before the trade and Hicks was getting phased out. NO might have worried about him as a locker room distraction or something.

In that vein:

Saints OLB Hau'oli Kikaha has been inactive the last two weeks, and I'm told the Saints are shopping him, trying to find right partner.

2015 second-rounder, four sacks as a rookie, missed all last year with injury, two sacks this year but benched lately. This would make sense and has some upside. Unlikely to be an impact move but you have to think it wouldn't cost much.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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The fact Nink knows the system and, for example, won't lose the edge and allow someone to run for an 87 yard touchdown doesn't look sexy on TV (or in game threads) but it is how BB wins games. I hope he comes back, because I think he can be effective especially in a reduced role where he can go 'all out' each down he's in there.

I have not the slightest idea what shape (physical or mental) he is in to jump back in. I also agree he was looking slower (though still effective) and perhaps the team let him know he was done prior to his retirement--who knows.
A friend of mine sat behind Nink and Light on a flight to Vegas last week. He said they literally drank the plane out of beer and vodka. I’m going to speculate he hasn’t been hitting the gym with an intent to unretire, but my friend did say he looked like he was still in playing shape. Take that fwiw, which is not much.
 

PedroKsBambino

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So, given available cap space they could add realistically, what, $3 mil or so? They are at $5.2, but need to sign Hoyer (or someone) at min and have a little bit left for emergencies.

If you staple Branch to the pick, you can now bring back, what, $6 mil?l

Interesting to solve for a player who will impact the defense within that range.