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2018 NYFG: How offensive are Opie, the O-line & Odell?

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by bankshot1, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    14,486
    The New York Football Giants are shaping up to be a shit-show of finger-pointing, second guessing and a lot of bad football this year. And it appears there is no thread. So...

    Rather than upset Eli and create a QB controversy, Dave Gettleman hired by NFL royalty, the Mara/Tischs, doubled down on Opie, thinking they had the talent to win it now.

    To keep the peace in Mayberry, who revolted when Opie was benched last year, they did not draft the next franchise QB, or trade the 2nd pick in the draft for a package to rebuild and fill and several holes, like the O-line, but instead they drafted a very talented running back. And then they commited to a long-term contract to OBJ, making him the highest paid prima dona head case receiver in the NFL. The PR was this team was an offensive juggernaut, loaded and ready to win.

    Poor Opie will make it to Yom Kippur, but may not make it to Halloween if the O-line plays like it played last night. No protection for Eli, no time to let OBJ run routes, not strong enough to open holes for Barkely to scamper through.

    So for G-Men fans, kibbitzers, fans of car crashs or schadenfreud share your thoughts, stats, insights, rants or vents, on the blue-bloods of the NFL, BIG-BLUE, the NYFG.
     
  2. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    14,486
  3. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks so much. Still has his fastball. There is nothing like a Francesa rant.
     
  4. Philip Jeff Frye

    Philip Jeff Frye Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, indeed, nothing like a good rant from him, but what a phony. He was berating callers last week who suggested that the Giants should have drafted Darnold or traded down. "Eli is a proven winner! Why would you draft Darnold only to have him sit on the bench for three years? The Giants could win another championship this year!" I'm traveling and haven't been able to listen, but I take it he's off the bandwagon?
     
  5. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Did he really say they could win the championship this year?

    Above, he is cleverly side-stepping Eli and Barkley, arguing that there is no point in discussing them because no o-line = no chance.
     
  6. StuckOnYouk

    StuckOnYouk Member SoSH Member

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    They should have traded down and loaded up on picks
    Barkley is a hell of a player but I would prefer he not lead the team with 14 catches last week
    I thought Solder was good - is it just that he can’t cover up the awfulness of
    The rest of the line?
     
  7. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    5,907
    Solder got a lot of mixed reviews. I think it’s fair to say he was an average left tackle. He wasn’t spectacular but he wasn’t awful either. Not sure he was worth that contract.
     
  8. Michelle34B

    Michelle34B lurker

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    185
    NEW YORK FOOTBALL GIANTS!

    Solder is way overpaid, New England isn't losing sleep over matching or beating the contract. The Giants are starting a rookie at LG, their RG is learning a new position, and had new starters at C and RT for week three. They missed out on Andrew Norwell, and then signed Solder.
     
  9. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    OBJ isn't happy.

    “How come we can't throw the ball for more than 20 yards?” Beckham continued. “How come we don't attempt or try to throw the ball for more than 20 yards? Those are questions that we have to figure out, but for now I would say it's our heart, it's our energy. It's what we bring when we line up before the game, all of that. It counts.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...rns-new-york-giants-bad-start-nfl/1536113002/
     
  10. Montana Fan

    Montana Fan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    That’s funny except my brother was complaining that they won’t throw the ball more than 6 yards down the field.
     
  11. maufman

    maufman Anderson Cooper x Mr. Rogers Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    Giants’ fans have unrealistic hopes for their team. Looking before the season at the first four games on the schedule (JAX, @DAL, @HOU, NO), the Giants clearly were going be underdogs in all four contests, so 1-3 should be right in line with expectations. The sked gets a tick easier in the second half, so the Giants still might get to 8-8, but 7-9 or even 6-10 ought to be considered a successful season for a team that went 3-13 a year ago.

    It’s fine for fans to be unreasonably optimistic, but the Giants’ front office should’ve known better. They had a lot of holes, and they should know they need to address the QB position in the near future. That Barkley pick is going to haunt them for a long time.
     
  12. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I don't think Giants fans are unrealistic. I know scores of Giants fans in NYC and none of them had any hope heading into this season, knowing full well that the team has to rebuild in full. It's not a good team, this is just the reality.
     
  13. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    OBJ threw his team and Manning under the bus in an interview with ESPN...


    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ing-reason-new-york-giants-struggling-offense

    more at the link
     
  14. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Maybe he should focus on catching the ball and not fucking up punt returns. Maybe.
     
  15. Dernells Casket n Flagon

    Dernells Casket n Flagon Member SoSH Member

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    Or maybe they should just let him throw it instead of Eli.
     
  16. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Half of me says he’s right, they didn’t pay him that crazy contract to run crossing patterns and short routes; half of me says stfu you just got that crazy contract; half of me says eff Eli. (I’m not sure how to do that math...)
     
  17. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  18. Mystic Merlin

    Mystic Merlin Member SoSH Member

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    That’s fairly alarming. He’s holding the ball longer yet throwing for less yards per completion?

    Yikes.
     
  19. Valek123

    Valek123 Member SoSH Member

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    Free Lauletta! At this point you need to see what you have for bench strength.
     
  20. DisgruntledSoxFan77

    DisgruntledSoxFan77 lurker

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    577
  21. Dernells Casket n Flagon

    Dernells Casket n Flagon Member SoSH Member

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    As was the decision to fire their coach and unbench their over the hill QB, which probably prevented him from just deciding to retire.
     
  22. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    That would've allowed him to save face.
     
  23. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    I thought the Giants were going to be a good team this year. They seemingly addressed their OL problems with Solder and Hernandez. The defense has playmakers in all 3 levels. Barkley was the wrong pick at #2 but nevertheless he is a dynamic player to go along with OBJ, both Shepards, and Evan Engram. All Eli would have to do is manage the game and not turn the ball over and they should be in the mix for a wildcard or even the division.

    But man was I wrong. It is a complete dumpster fire there. Eli is the worst starting QB in the league. Their defense is getting gashed every game. They have the most talented WR and possibly the most talented RB in the league and still have trouble scoring points.
     
    #23 RedOctober3829, Oct 12, 2018 at 9:47 AM
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 9:54 AM
  24. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    And, despite adding Solder and Hernandez, the OL is still a trainwreck because the other three starters stink. It's a bad team with disproportionate spending in skill players.
     
  25. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The OBJ contract will go down as the worst contract in NY Giants history. What a waste of resources. You can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, but a guy like Beckham is brutal because he's so divisive for the team.
     
  26. Montana Fan

    Montana Fan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    I took a knee after reading this post. Yes, I’m in agreement. They should have traded him during last season.
     
  27. Philip Jeff Frye

    Philip Jeff Frye Member SoSH Member

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    I would guess that nobody wanted to take on the combination of cost and baggage in a trade.

    I do have to say, however, that its a little suspicious that black guy banging his head into a cooling fan in frustration is a sign that he's a cancer, but when a white guy (I'm thinking Paul O'Neill as the archetype) does something like that, he's a warrior. Beckham has brought a lot of this on himself with his antics over the years, but it does seem like the media are going a bit overboard now looking for evidence of misbehavior.
     
    #27 Philip Jeff Frye, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:31 AM
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM
  28. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    Well......Pats got Blount for next to nothing after he walked off the field......
     
  29. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    The Giants, with new management, had the opportunity to make some bold moves, and restock the team and start the rebuild for the future, by trading OBJ and the #2 pick for a basket of picks. But instead they IMO made some very questionable decisons all in the belief that this team was a player or two away from being a juggernaut AND they wanted to avoid a QB controversy.

    Eli looks cooked and spooked.

    Last night in the game thread, someone posted "Barkely Sanders" which was exactly what I was thinking.

    Clearly this may be a premature assessment, but the NYFG are so far from being good, Barkley may waste his spectacular skills and the prime of his career, waiting for a team that he can ride into the post-season.

    Re: "Water-Cooler" Paul O'Neil---rings forgive a lot of frustration and water-cooler repair bills.
     
  30. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It is really unseemly to couch this in racism. How has the history of diva WR's worked out for the teams they have played on? How many vacations did Paul O'Neill take before playoff games? Beckham's problems to the team are far deeper than proposing to a field goal net during the middle of a game. And his contract will become an albatross because you just can't pay one player that much money, as it erodes the cap in a way that is unbelievably difficult to recover from. The color of his skin doesn't change basic math.

    Also, baseball is far more individual of a sport than football. I do not recall O'Neill ever questioning his teammates, only himself. Beckham questions everything. Oh yeah, he also literally left the field before halftime last night, when the Giants had one more shot at the end zone. That's indefensible.

    Water coolers still get destroyed by all sorts of players in today's baseball, by white, latino, and black players. It's not an apt comparison.
     
  31. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    I don't think its unreasonable to start there. But I think even a cursory further look dispels the racial angle with OBJ. Even today, whatever the hot-takers are saying about *him*, they are saying that Eli should not be playing professional football anymore.
     
  32. Dernells Casket n Flagon

    Dernells Casket n Flagon Member SoSH Member

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    I think I'd rather have the OBJ deal overpriced as it is with one of the top 3 players at his position than the contract Manning signed after the 2015 season. 4 Years, $84M, $67M guaranteed. Compared with Beckham's 5 year, $90M, $65M guaranteed.
     
  33. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    IMO Coughlin should have read the riot act to OBJ when he lost his mind against Josh Norman a few years ago, but he got the superstar treatment instead, and has been a clubhouse cancer/pain-in-the-ass ever since. As was once said of a local superstar a long time ago, "he's an all-star from the neck down".
     
  34. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Both are obviously horrendous contracts. The Giants should have bitten the bullet and cut Eli after last season. Even if they take Barkley this year, who is incredible, they should have tanked this year. Anyway, they are tanking regardless, so their goal must be a 2-14 season and a high QB draft pick.

    Eli is done. They have to move on.
     
  35. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Apology owed to “Mac” — McAdoo — according to Geno Smith.

    Francesa should be must listen today with OBJ, this and the season being over.
     
  36. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

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    I think the correct statement would be "you can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, when your QB is either this bad or this expensive, and you most certainly can't spend that kind of money when your QB is both this bad and this expensive." In short, Eli is the main problem for the Giants from a roster construction standpoint.

    As to OBJ's value, according to my informal googling results (really just this link https://www.nflshop.com/top-selling-jerseys/x-249520+z-98608802-3043109587) OBJ is still making the Giants money off the field. I'm sure that's part of the analysis when negotiating a contract with a player.
     
  37. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Please let him fall below .500 for his career. Please.
     
  38. Mugsy's Jock

    Mugsy's Jock Longtime Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I've been saying this to my Giant fan friends since last year -- the decision to bench Eli was absolutely correct, and the decision not to make any moves to address the Giants QB deficiency in the off-season compounded it.
     
  39. scott bankheadcase

    scott bankheadcase Member SoSH Member

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    543
    If they had benched him for Webb, you would have seen only a small amount of pushback. It was that they were benching their supposed hall of famer for Geno Smith, a man that all of New York watched be terrible with the Jets.
     
  40. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Francesa opens with ripping into them

    (mostly a quote)
    "This once proud franchise is now a laughing stock"
     
  41. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    “This is now a BAD football organization ..!”

    Francesa on epic rant
     
  42. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Francesa's Giants open

    https://wfan.radio.com/articles/francesa-giants-have-entered-cleveland-browns-territory



    "This once proud franchise has become one of the real laughingstocks of the NFL. The Giants- if you start with the last game in the playoffs from the 11-5 season, and you go 0-1 there, then you go 3-13, and then you go 1-5... the Giants have won four- four!- of their last 23 games. That's 4-19. 4-19 in the NFL is garbage! That is at the bottom of the league! That is Cleveland Browns territory, and that's what the Giants have become."
     
  43. Royal Reader

    Royal Reader Member SoSH Member

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    The obvious diagnosis is that the Giants brass correctly diagnosed that the O-line blew, but that gave them the cover to ignore that the QB also blows. Thing is, when they went out and splurged in the 2016 offseason, pretty much everyone knew that might get them one run. It did.
     
  44. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    They might have correctly diagnosed the OL blew, but they didn't do enough to fix it. They signed Solder and drafted Will Hernandez, but they let their two best holdovers (Justin Pugh and Weston Richburg) walk in free agency. The plan was journeymen Jon Halapio (a Pats pick in 2014) and Patrick Omameh, plus Ereck Flowers magically becoming good moving from LT to RT, with 33-year-old John Greco and 2017 UDFA Chad Wheeler as the backups.
     
  45. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Their entire offseason had a double-down, in-your-face, petulant quality to it. Our crazy HC, enabled by our dissipated GM, stole the keys, debased our icon — and we broke into the building and set things right. Crimson Tide.

    Which is fine, so long as you’re right about the QB not being on his way out.

    Nobody can argue with a straight face that they found no QB in last year’s class worthy of the # 2 pick.

    The half full part of the glass — they may suck so badly they’ll have a chance to do it again with a top 5 pick.

    OBJ with a rookie QB is going to be a blast, I’m sure.
     
  46. Royal Reader

    Royal Reader Member SoSH Member

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    The distinction is that 2018 may have been a historically good QB class, and this looks like a bad one. I couldn't even say who the top prospect is right now. The best QBs in CFB seem to be a guy who will play one more year in college and a guy who will play for the Oakland Athletics.
     
  47. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    That’s the thing that confused me with the Giants and I mentioned this more in the game thread for week 6... Manning is toast. He’s been on the decline for some time now (3+ years) and he was not an elite guy to begin with. He’s the kind of QB that needs a good running game because he’s, again, toast. It’s hard to have a running game when that’s your offensive line group. I think had they invested more in the line and less on skilled position players they’d be in a much better position offensively.

    We still have plenty of college football to be played but this years QB crop looks mediocre. Herbert is probably the best guy but he might not come out.
     
  48. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Giants owner John Mara just now at owners meetings, re: Odell Beckham: "I wish he would create the headlines by his play on the field as opposed to what he says and what he does off the field. I think he needs to do a little more playing and a little less talking."
     

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