2023-24 Celtics
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What an absofuckinglutely crazy game. This was by far the most out of sorts the Celtics have looked all season, and they were lucky to get out with a 2 point win.
The Celtics had 17 turnovers to Memphis's 9, led by Tatum who had 8 turnovers.
The Celtics were called for 8 offensive fouls. A couple of these were clearly BS, but the Celtics were just out of sorts. Large segments of the game Memphis was swallowing them up at the rim.
Other than Hauser, they weren't really hitting from three, either. The team as a whole shot 12 of 31, but Sam Hauser shot 5-7 (including a missed heave) and everyone else was 7 of 24. At the half, Hauser's 4 threes were the only threes the Celtics had hit.
The third quarter started messily, at Mazzula tried a move he hadn't made all season long. I think in every game so far, Mazzulla played his starters late into the third before going to subs. Today, with 7:10 left, and the Celtics up by three, he brought in Pritchard, Hauser, and Hoford for Holiday, Tatum, and Brown - these might be the first meaningful minutes where both Jays were on the bench other than in the game Brown missed earlier. A couple of minutes later, when Porzingis picked up foul 4, Mazzulla went to Queta, and the Celtics finished the third quarter with White and 4 bench guys. This move "worked" in the sense that the bench held its own and the Celtics entered the 4th quarter with the same 3 point lead and all the starters rested.
But any expectations of the Jays coming in and blasting Memphis were shot lived. They looked just as out of sorts as they had earlier. Mazzulla also made a move that I think was dumb - he started the 4th with Al, the Jays, Holiday, and... Lamar Stevens. Stevens had a rebound and a foul in 3 unenventful minutes where Memphis cut the lead to one. What the Celtics were missing was their best 3-point shooter, who should have been out there instead of Stevens. Hauser briefly came in for Stevens before Mazzulla went back to White.
The game went back and forth after that, with the non-Hauser Celtics staying in it by shooting a little better from three than they had earlier. Horford, Tatum, White, and Holiday all hit 4th quarter threes, accounting for 12 of their 23 points in the quarter. The Celtics managed to get their lead up to 6 points 3 times late, but each time they could not get it done defensively. They were giving up wide open threes and offensive rebounds. After White's three put the Celtics up 6 for the last time, 98-92, Memphis ripped off an 8-0 run helped by 2 threes, an offensive foul against Tatum, and an offensive rebound.
With 1:33 left, KP got fouled and hit the 2 free throws to tie, then Brown came up with a steal leading to transition. But, it being this kind of game, White drove and got tied up at the rim. But he won the jump ball and Tatum, who struggled all night, saw three defenders coming at him in the post and hit KP for a dunk with 1:01 left.
Memphis missed with 37 seconds left and White got the rebound. Tatum missed with 17 seconds left and White got the offensive rebound with 14 left. It felt like the game was over now, Celtics could force Memphis to foul, but Tatum saw what looked like a wide open Holiday cutting down the lane and fed him - but Memphis defense collapsed on him and forced a miss. With 4 seconds left, Aldama (5 for 12 on the night) gets an open three but misses it... but Zhaire Williams gets the offensive rebound and has a chance for a game typing shot at the buzzer - but KP blocks it. Game over.
KP was the player of the game. 9-13 from the field for 26 points to lead the team. Missed all his threes but shot 8-9 from the line. Also 8 rebounds, an assist, a steal, and six blocks.
JT was out of sorts. He shot 7-13, scored 20 points, had 9 rebounds and 5 assists... but he turned it over 8 times.
Sam Hauser played 22 minutes of the bench and scored 15 points (5-7 from three), 4 rebounds, 2 steals, and a team leading +17. (The #2 guy in +/- was KP at +4.) Mazzulla should have played him more.
PP had a rough game. In 15 minutes he scored 7, but on several attempts to drive and dish he was getting his passes deflected.
Al, White, Brown, Holiday all had their moments but Brown shot 5-16 and none scored more than Brown's 12.
The Celtics had 17 turnovers to Memphis's 9, led by Tatum who had 8 turnovers.
The Celtics were called for 8 offensive fouls. A couple of these were clearly BS, but the Celtics were just out of sorts. Large segments of the game Memphis was swallowing them up at the rim.
Other than Hauser, they weren't really hitting from three, either. The team as a whole shot 12 of 31, but Sam Hauser shot 5-7 (including a missed heave) and everyone else was 7 of 24. At the half, Hauser's 4 threes were the only threes the Celtics had hit.
The third quarter started messily, at Mazzula tried a move he hadn't made all season long. I think in every game so far, Mazzulla played his starters late into the third before going to subs. Today, with 7:10 left, and the Celtics up by three, he brought in Pritchard, Hauser, and Hoford for Holiday, Tatum, and Brown - these might be the first meaningful minutes where both Jays were on the bench other than in the game Brown missed earlier. A couple of minutes later, when Porzingis picked up foul 4, Mazzulla went to Queta, and the Celtics finished the third quarter with White and 4 bench guys. This move "worked" in the sense that the bench held its own and the Celtics entered the 4th quarter with the same 3 point lead and all the starters rested.
But any expectations of the Jays coming in and blasting Memphis were shot lived. They looked just as out of sorts as they had earlier. Mazzulla also made a move that I think was dumb - he started the 4th with Al, the Jays, Holiday, and... Lamar Stevens. Stevens had a rebound and a foul in 3 unenventful minutes where Memphis cut the lead to one. What the Celtics were missing was their best 3-point shooter, who should have been out there instead of Stevens. Hauser briefly came in for Stevens before Mazzulla went back to White.
The game went back and forth after that, with the non-Hauser Celtics staying in it by shooting a little better from three than they had earlier. Horford, Tatum, White, and Holiday all hit 4th quarter threes, accounting for 12 of their 23 points in the quarter. The Celtics managed to get their lead up to 6 points 3 times late, but each time they could not get it done defensively. They were giving up wide open threes and offensive rebounds. After White's three put the Celtics up 6 for the last time, 98-92, Memphis ripped off an 8-0 run helped by 2 threes, an offensive foul against Tatum, and an offensive rebound.
With 1:33 left, KP got fouled and hit the 2 free throws to tie, then Brown came up with a steal leading to transition. But, it being this kind of game, White drove and got tied up at the rim. But he won the jump ball and Tatum, who struggled all night, saw three defenders coming at him in the post and hit KP for a dunk with 1:01 left.
Memphis missed with 37 seconds left and White got the rebound. Tatum missed with 17 seconds left and White got the offensive rebound with 14 left. It felt like the game was over now, Celtics could force Memphis to foul, but Tatum saw what looked like a wide open Holiday cutting down the lane and fed him - but Memphis defense collapsed on him and forced a miss. With 4 seconds left, Aldama (5 for 12 on the night) gets an open three but misses it... but Zhaire Williams gets the offensive rebound and has a chance for a game typing shot at the buzzer - but KP blocks it. Game over.
KP was the player of the game. 9-13 from the field for 26 points to lead the team. Missed all his threes but shot 8-9 from the line. Also 8 rebounds, an assist, a steal, and six blocks.
JT was out of sorts. He shot 7-13, scored 20 points, had 9 rebounds and 5 assists... but he turned it over 8 times.
Sam Hauser played 22 minutes of the bench and scored 15 points (5-7 from three), 4 rebounds, 2 steals, and a team leading +17. (The #2 guy in +/- was KP at +4.) Mazzulla should have played him more.
PP had a rough game. In 15 minutes he scored 7, but on several attempts to drive and dish he was getting his passes deflected.
Al, White, Brown, Holiday all had their moments but Brown shot 5-16 and none scored more than Brown's 12.
KP is the magic elixir when the JAYs go bad, late/tight, and in a slowed-down half-court game.
Charlotte has a good chance to jump on Boston tomorrow night.
Hopefully, we get a healthy dose of Hauser, who is seeing his role increase with Q4 minutes tonight
Charlotte has a good chance to jump on Boston tomorrow night.
Hopefully, we get a healthy dose of Hauser, who is seeing his role increase with Q4 minutes tonight
I get what you're saying here. But Joe is also trying to figure out/develop the bench and he's playing the long game while also trying to win games. We also don't know exactly what went into this. Maybe Stevens stood out in practice with some of this unit or an assistant had an idea during a coaches meeting. A lot goes into why coaches play players. So yeah it looks dumb bc well Stevens over Hauser and Stevens did nothing in hindsight but I'm just sayin there is probably a very good reason he played Stevens.
EDIT: Sometimes, coaches play players they didn't believe in in order to prove a point (and not always to the player, hint hint). Not saying Joe did that here. But, it's something to watch for as the season goes on.
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queta was terrible. I counted four big defensive mistakes in his first like 6 plays or something.
Celtics won this game:
- with 13 fewer 3 point attempts than MEM
- holding MEM to 100 points on 95 shot attempts
- 8 offensive fouls called (!!) / 17 turnovers
- Career night for Santi Aldama, 30 burger from Desmond Bane
- Mazzulla obviously trying to preserve guys for the B2B
Not a great game by any stretch, Tatum has been off the last couple of games and JB kind of disappeared for a bit there. But they still won. These are the kinds of games that were obviously losses last year - but I think they can still pick up the lessons from a crap performance while still pulling out a win.
We're so lucky to have DWhite, he always seems to grab the most important rebound or nail the timeliest of timely shots. And even a frustrated and cold Tatum made the key pass to Porzingis and then again to Jrue at the end of the game. The end of games this season have been so much better, it's a marked improvement.
- with 13 fewer 3 point attempts than MEM
- holding MEM to 100 points on 95 shot attempts
- 8 offensive fouls called (!!) / 17 turnovers
- Career night for Santi Aldama, 30 burger from Desmond Bane
- Mazzulla obviously trying to preserve guys for the B2B
Not a great game by any stretch, Tatum has been off the last couple of games and JB kind of disappeared for a bit there. But they still won. These are the kinds of games that were obviously losses last year - but I think they can still pick up the lessons from a crap performance while still pulling out a win.
We're so lucky to have DWhite, he always seems to grab the most important rebound or nail the timeliest of timely shots. And even a frustrated and cold Tatum made the key pass to Porzingis and then again to Jrue at the end of the game. The end of games this season have been so much better, it's a marked improvement.
All I can say is thank god Marcus smart wasn’t able to play on that last possession because there is no chance on earth he wouldn’t have found a way to get the points needed in that single game scenario. Of course everything is different if he plays and all that just my god was that a Marcus Smart situatuon
I don't buy the "if coach did it, it must be right" line of thinking - and Mazzulla himself didn;t either since after 3 minutes he brought Hauser back in. The Celtics hit 12 threes for the game. They had 8 after 3 quarters and Hauser had hit 5 of those. Taking him out unnecessarily was a costly mistake.
More generally, I thought going to the bench early, with both Jays sitting, was an interesting/surprising move, and one that worked to an extent.
Alos at some level the players' heads just weren't in this one. The best example of that was the lack of situational awareness by Tatum and Holiday in the final 14 seconds. There was no need to do anything but run clock and get fouled there, and trying for the quick basket gave Memphis 2 chances: one to win and one to tie.
As a longer term thing, they need to figure out how to play against defenses that disrupt what they are trying to do. Miami beat them in the playoffs last year because they could not to that. Memphis did last night and they just barely hung on. A lot of NBA teams don't apply this kind of pressure in the regular season.
I’m not sure the pass from Tatum was so bad. He thought Jrue had an easy two there which would have iced the game. Plus, this isn’t the first time Jrue has leaked out when Tatum had the ball in his hands:
It didn’t work out and was maybe a little overly aggressive in that situation but I can see the thinking.
It didn’t work out and was maybe a little overly aggressive in that situation but I can see the thinking.
The announcers were all over Tatum/Jrue but I also disagree with them. Jrue just missed the dunk. He's successful on that >80% of the time and it's game over.
Super glad to get the win, but it's interesting that in all the games that the Celtics have lost/struggled in they are low scoring/chippy games. It's also interesting how much KP seems to be vital to the team's success. When he gets into foul trouble they seem to struggle. Didn't help that KP was in foul trouble and Tatum and Brown were both off. Brown could be bothered by his injury - another disappointing game from Tatum in the recent small sample size.
Super glad to get the win, but it's interesting that in all the games that the Celtics have lost/struggled in they are low scoring/chippy games. It's also interesting how much KP seems to be vital to the team's success. When he gets into foul trouble they seem to struggle. Didn't help that KP was in foul trouble and Tatum and Brown were both off. Brown could be bothered by his injury - another disappointing game from Tatum in the recent small sample size.
There’s not much practice time in-season so if you actually want to work on a bunch of different stuff it inevitably has to come in small doses in games against lower tier competition.
Agreed. The coaching staff really wants to win games, and dislikes bad efforts like tonight, but they don't care about wins and losses as much as process and getting information.
They wouldn't have played Queta or those weird bench lineups if they were trying to optimize for winning against Memphis at all costs.
Unfortunately, I think players pick up on that, so you don't get max urgency from the starters, which in turn makes evaluating those experiments a bit harder.
No practice and 82 games: it's a tricky thing!
It looked like nerves to me, like someone had placed an espresso IV in his arm. It’s about much more than a competition-level change from preseason, that was not the same guy. If that does end up being the Queta going forward, though, he’s unplayable.
So far their only losses and biggest struggles have happened versus elite shot blocking (JJJ, Rudy, Embiid) Probably not at all unique to the C's but maybe bears keeping an eye on.
It was good pass, technically speaking, but it was not one that made sense at that point in the game. And Holiday compounded it by thinking he had an easy basket but getting stuffed without being fouled. If you go for the quick score in that situation, you have to score. Job number 1 is not to lose control of the game in that spot and the Celtics did.
It was a risky play that they didn't need in that situation, which I think deserves criticism. It had a good chance of working out, but why take the risk at all? Honestly, it was Smartsian.
It's good to have these rock-fighty games early and get through them. They do seem to have some challenges when games bog down.
This reminded me of the Bobby Knight "game face" presser from decades ago. "What's a game face?" Well done sir.
View: https://youtu.be/5Y8n5n--wOU?si=pMBFBJjB2iBTI_Db
Nice article with clips on The Ringer on the Celtics this year.
How the Celtics’ New Starting Five Is Picking Teams Apart - The Ringer
How the Celtics’ New Starting Five Is Picking Teams Apart - The Ringer
I didn't have time to watch super closely but Scal thought that JMazz put Stevens in because the PnR with Bane was killing the Cs and with Stevens in, they could switch everything and maybe shut that down.
Which if true was probably a sound way of thinking, even if sound strategies don't always work.
And I think on the other end, having a non-shooter kind of gummed up what BOS was trying to do so JMazz ended that experiment pretty quickly.
Fun article. Thanks for posting. Amazing thing is that they could get even better.
I don't think I was appreciating enough that Marcus might have some insight on how to defend the Cs...
View: https://twitter.com/RealBobManning/status/1726451545733275776?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/RealBobManning/status/1726451545733275776?s=20
In fairness to Joe, they did get killed on the PNR, before and after Stevens was in the game.
Sounds like Joe was pissed, actually, and Tomase (I know! He's terrible) thinks it's clear his substitutions were definitely intended to send a message:
And Mazz makes it very clear in the video at the top of the article that he was pissed about the last possession; Ime levels of calling players out.
I don't think he was just trying things out, regardless.
Might have some basic insight on tendencies of Tatum, Jaylen, White, etc. but he never practiced with this personnel so not sure how impactful. Hopefully he can make the game in Boston. Would be a shame if he can’t.
Well, I hope the team learns some from these embarassing 2 games.
The only second half minutes where the team played with effort and focus were the 4 minutes after Mazzulla's early 4th quarter time out. The Celtics started the quarter with an all bench unit of Pritchard, Hauser, Svi, Kornet, and Brissett and a 6 point lead. This unit was not getting it done, allowing Charlotte to cur the lead to 2, at which point Joe called time out. Mazzulla sent the same unit back out, and Pritchard hit a three. Charlotte scored a 2, and then Pritchard drove and there a lob to Kornet. Lead back to 5. Charlotte misses, Pritchard misses a three, but Brissett gets the offensive rebound, and Pritchard finds a way to drive for a crazy layup. Lead to 7. Charlotte scores again, then Svi missed, but Charlotte also misses, and PP finds Svi for a corner three, lead to 8.
The rest of the second half and OT was just the Celtics trying to half ass their way to win and failing.
The only second half minutes where the team played with effort and focus were the 4 minutes after Mazzulla's early 4th quarter time out. The Celtics started the quarter with an all bench unit of Pritchard, Hauser, Svi, Kornet, and Brissett and a 6 point lead. This unit was not getting it done, allowing Charlotte to cur the lead to 2, at which point Joe called time out. Mazzulla sent the same unit back out, and Pritchard hit a three. Charlotte scored a 2, and then Pritchard drove and there a lob to Kornet. Lead back to 5. Charlotte misses, Pritchard misses a three, but Brissett gets the offensive rebound, and Pritchard finds a way to drive for a crazy layup. Lead to 7. Charlotte scores again, then Svi missed, but Charlotte also misses, and PP finds Svi for a corner three, lead to 8.
The rest of the second half and OT was just the Celtics trying to half ass their way to win and failing.
Celtics are first in 3PA but only 11th in 3P% coming into tonight and their 32% shooting night isn't going to help that number. They finished 6th in the league last season. Hopefully just SSS and it corrects upwards, but it's something I'm starting to get concerned with. I thought adding Porzingis and Holiday and shedding Smart would make them an elite shooting team but it hasn't played out that way so far.
If the Celtics made 0.5 more threes per game (a total of six buckets), they’d be back in sixth. The only team shooting that well on the same volume is Dallas.
Celtics were 4th last year in true shooting at 118.9. They’re currently 6th at 118.4. The difference in TS home vs road is about 1-2 percentage points, and as noted the Celtics have now played 2/3 of their games away.
Just FTR, the main complaints I see from their former teams are that Jrue can do some Smart-like boneheaded stuff close and late, and Porzingis can disappear for stretches.
For sure. They're #1 in Net Rtg after all so it's more a minor concern and something I'm tracking. I'm still a little uneasy about the number of threes they take given how shooting variance can swing a series and I'd feel better if they were a truly elite three point shooting team. Hopefully they get there. I'm happy they're winning games when the threes aren't falling, but that's going to be a lot tougher once we get into the spring.
They finished at 37.7% last season. They were at 36.8% going into tonight and dropped to 36.4% after tonight’s. There is nothing to see here right now, but the idea that adding Porzingis and Jrue, who both shoot worse than the Celtics did last year, to this team would make them a better shooting team doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. (Trading Smart certainly does improve the team’s shooting and becoming an elite shooting team remains possible given that Hauser, Tatum, and Pritchard are capable of shooting a lot of threes at a very high percentage.)
2 of their top 6 were out, 2 others completely shit the bed (the missed free throws at the end were the highlight, but Holiday also had 7 turnovers), 2nd night of a back to back at the end of a road trip, yeah, you're gonna lose those games. 11-3 and all the losses were winnable in the closing seconds.
Celtics played sloppy, they were also experimenting with a lot of sets with Tatum playing well off the ball. It’s clear that they are trying some concepts in the early going and it’s going to look ugly as shit sometimes. Missing the free throws is infuriating but that’s going to happen sometimes too.
Took me a while to come back and post this one. You might want to consider skipping it.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IbuBJsGR88&ab_channel=NBA
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IbuBJsGR88&ab_channel=NBA
Yep. The 17-point lead in the 2nd quarter told us where we are, in general. The second half told us we were on a back-to-back. That and our free-throw %, I suppose.
The only part that drove me crazy was Jaylen shooting an early-clock, heat-check 3 with a defender draped on him in our penultimate possession of regulation. No attempt to move the ball or find a good shot. Oh hey, we're still up 2, let's see if I can be the hero tonight, what could possibly go wrong? Well, you got your answer, JB.
If we run our offense and it ends up with Jaylen taking a good shot and he misses, meh, nothing to learn from that, really. But with the talent on this team, we need to be smarter, because at some point the stakes will be higher. And all the talent in the world won't matter if you insist on playing into the defense's hands and taking the shot they want you to take. The back-to-back might make you miss, but it shouldn't change anything about your willingness to evaluate options and make the smart play.
I mean I didn't say this at all. I was only trying, as a coach myself, to explain that there's more than meets the eye. I am sure it was well-reasoned. That was my point. I also am pretty confident the coaches learned valuable info from it.
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I didn't see the game but saw tweets from a few Cs beat reporters that Joe had a lineup in the 4th Q(!) of PP, Hauser, Brissett, Svi, and Luke and they did pretty well.
I know some here would have crushed Joe if they had given up a 15-2 run or whatever.
EDIT: I could be wrong as I don't follow these threads religiously, but it seems some want Joe to go 82-0 and develop the bench and versatile chemistry among different combinations of players, many of whom are new to the team.
I know some here would have crushed Joe if they had given up a 15-2 run or whatever.
EDIT: I could be wrong as I don't follow these threads religiously, but it seems some want Joe to go 82-0 and develop the bench and versatile chemistry among different combinations of players, many of whom are new to the team.
Yeah, that's plausible and I think defensible. It's also a November game. Why not try to see if this works.
IMO, the pass wasn't the problem. He had a double team coming at him and wanted not to take a foul with that much time on the clock. If I have a great FT shooter in this situation with the ball and he's passing to a bad FT shooter, I'm upset. But, I coach high school. At the NBA level, passing to Holiday there is totally acceptable.
Very much disagree on this one part. The mental toll of the Celtics previous 18 hours that I detailed in the gambling thread is even more of a factor than the physical toll under the conditions that we played this game under last night. Some players more than others.
That's a good observation— and, yes, they sank to 13th after last night's performance. But they are #1 in 3PT% at home so far (41.8%). I think it's fair to attribute the overall 3PT% mediocrity to road fatigue. I'll make you a gentleman's wager that they're top 3 overall in the league by the end of the upcoming homestand that concludes Dec 17.
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That was the only good thing about the entire second half. And they didn't start out playing well. They played mediocre to bd for the first 2 minutes of the quarter, Joe called time out, and sent the same group back out and they (led by PP) took the lead from 2 to 8 in 4 minutes.
Very winnable game. JT's late drive that didn't go in, then JB's forced 3 that missed capped by JT's missed FT sealed the L. Last game on the road trip so it's understandable they could not put a weaker opponent away. I was surprised by Ball's play. Seems to have good skill and drive.
