2023-24 Celtics

[InstaFace]

And that was a massive omission in my post. Great point.

Maybe the sky is falling - you can't rule it out. But you really need to sell it for a team that is 11-3 and looks like one of the most complete rotations in the league.

I don't see anyone here proclaiming the sky is falling. Just that we ought to observe and name the negative tendencies that look fixable (as well as enjoying the positives, and the things that will happily regress to the mean), so we can see if we're making progress throughout the year.

I would struggle to name any poster here who is less than "really enthusiastic" about how the team looks so far this year. Maybe you've seen one, but I haven't. And maybe you think every post should be prefaced with praise for several corners before launching into anything approaching a critique, but I think we're grown-up enough here to understand the difference between voicing and discussing a specific issue, vs airing a general despair / malaise / pessimism.

 

[bellowthecat]

He already got paid. He doesn’t need to make All-NBA this season.

I don't think money is the sole motivation to make All-NBA. We're taking about guys who are hyper competitive, take real pride in their work, and seek recognition of such.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I don't see anyone here proclaiming the sky is falling. Just that we ought to observe and name the negative tendencies that look fixable (as well as enjoying the positives, and the things that will happily regress to the mean), so we can see if we're making progress throughout the year.

I would struggle to name any poster here who is less than "really enthusiastic" about how the team looks so far this year. Maybe you've seen one, but I haven't. And maybe you think every post should be prefaced with praise for several corners before launching into anything approaching a critique, but I think we're grown-up enough here to understand the difference between voicing and discussing a specific issue, vs airing a general despair / malaise / pessimism.

This forum has more than one person who thinks that the SSS data shows that Jaylen Brown is a problem for this team. Is it too much to ask what the harm is? To me that's an entirely reasonable question to ask. Jaylen is clearly starting the season a bit slow - we can all agree on that. But if people want to go beyond that, its kind of on them to show why we need to be concerned.

People can discuss whatever they want here. But that means if I proclaim Zvi as the Cs best player ever and others agree with me, people can point out that's its silly. That's how this is supposed to work.

Jaylen has started the season slow but its hard to show how it's hurting the team. If he plays the same number of games as last year he still has 80% of a season to go so I am not sure if there are any big picture conclusions.

Except Jaylen has struggled in spots.

 

[radsoxfan]

I also think Joe should have done more---that is a situation where he should be on the court daring him to T him up and forcing them to look at a replay. Those extra seconds are critical; you can't do that unless you are 100%, absolutely, incontrovertibly correct and he was there and it is reviewable.

This was so so strange even in real time. It was blatantly obvious the clock was WAY off.... all the players on the Celtics were screaming about it. I was watching with the sound off, but I almost assumed there had to be some rule the refs couldn't review it? How else was that outcome possible?

Also, Joe was looking pretty oblivious to the clock situation until I saw him ask the refs about it during the subsequent free throws. Joe's lack of awareness there was actually a bit concerning.

 

[JCizzle]

This was so so strange even in real time. It was blatantly obvious the clock was WAY off.... all the players on the Celtics were screaming about it. I was listening with the sound off, but I almost assumed there had to be some rule the refs couldn't review it? How else was that outcome possible?

Also, Joe was looking pretty oblivious to the clock situation until I saw him ask the refs about it during the subsequent free throws. Joe's lack of awareness there was actually a bit concerning.

Spo definitely gets T'd up there and demands an investigation. Bizarre lack of emphasis from the Celtics staff.

 

[Auger34]

Zach Lowe is also throwing Jaylen shade.

http://m.espn.com/general/cast?id=10528553&wjb

I listened to this pod and it was…interesting.

He started off with a lot of vigor about Brown and then when he actually broke it down play by play there wasn’t much there?

 

[teddykgb]

Weren't you the same guy that made this point in the Raptors game thread?

The same thread where, by my count, Jaylen had 5 nice things said about him over the course of the game, and probably a dozen shitty ones.

The same thread where Tatum had about a dozen posts "TATUM" "OMG TATUM" over and over again, and a few others that said "Tatum just doesn't have it tonight?"

Just a reminder, Brown was 9/14 from the field (3/5 from the line), had 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 turnovers, 23 points and a +4.

Tatum was 8/22 (1 for fucking 11 from 3), 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers, 17 points and a -4.

The C's won by 3.



Define "same mistakes over and over again." It's a basketball game, not advanced calculus. How many different mistakes can possibly be made? And how is a guy averaging 2.5 TO's a game (2.0 when you remove offensive fouls, or is that a mistake he makes over and over again) committing an egregious amount of loose ball turnovers "over and over and over again?"

The problem isn't that Jaylen is making the same mistakes over and over again. The problem is anytime Jaylen makes a mistake, this narrative ensues. As I type this post, Jaylen Brown has a turnover rate of 11.2%. Jrue is at 14.9, Horford is at 14.1, Tatum is at 12.3, and Jaylen is tied with Derrick White at 11.2%.

But let's talk about those same mistakes over and over and over again, in every thread, but ignore what's actually happening instead because you don't like folks defending Jaylen. Or let's talk about how Jrue and Tatum's turnover rates being higher than Jaylen's are about 'variance?"

Yes. I am the same guy. It’s such a chore to read the game threads right now because there’s so many people complaining about people complaining about Jaylen Brown that it has become impossible to just talk about what you’re seeing in the game you’re watching.

And I defined exactly what Jaylens problem is. It’s over and over and over again because it’s the same mistake he’s been making since he came in the league and every summer we hope this is the season he will refine his dribble and/or stop trying to penetrate through traffic and every season he’s the same guy in that specific regard. It is hardly surprising that people want to comment on it. I would even agree that this is familiarity breeding contempt in the sense that we are all too aware of this particular wart and see it more prominently as a result. But this is a very basic skill of the game and it really stands out for a player of his caliber. I understand that you very vociferously don’t like to read that but I think it’s simply true that his handle is a major weak spot in the game of any NBA player and especially one who is otherwise so gifted and so prone to using isolation drives as offense.

As rate stats compared to Tatum and Jrue, I can only speak to Tatum as I have obviously watched a lot more of his game. Tatum of course has a higher usage rate and far more responsibility on the basketball court. They have him initiate more and most every team throws varied looks at him with double teams and key on him as the primary person to stop. I have no idea why you’re removing offensive fouls from one player in your comparison but even if Tatum has a higher turnover rate I’m more than willing to have a discussion about the flaws in his game, as well, and have done so plenty on here. But talking about those things doesn’t bring with it nearly as much protest about being unfair and not having an understanding of his value and all the like.

At the end of the day this is all dumb because I think Jaylen Brown is a heck of a basketball player. But I want to be able to talk about the things he does wrong because for this team to win a championship he’s got a major role to play and I find the nature of the mistakes he does make and the lack of overall improvement to be a potential blocker. I think both JT and JB are limited in some key ways offensively and that it will take a concerted effort by both to play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses when playing against the best of the best. I think we generally see Tatum trying to adapt his game and improve it and while I am 100% certain JB works hard he hasn’t managed to make the same kind of visible progress on some of his issues. It makes at least me wonder if he understands it well enough to execute better in the high pressure situations to come.

And to be more explicit, there are a few aspects of his game that I would have hoped to see improvement in that I don’t feel is there:

- Dribbling / decision making on his dribble. I don’t know if there’s a stat that quantifies just hopeless penetration that is highly likely to lead to a reach in steal but it’s as much his decision to force doing something he isn’t good at as it is his actual leaky handle

- 3 point shooting, which has regressed and would make his dribble/drive game stronger. He got up to 38/39% a few seasons back but has been 35 and below the last 2 and so far this season.

-FT shooting, which is another core skill. Admittedly I’m a bit picky here but he’s peaked at 75% FT and for a guy who drives as much as he does it really needs to be a bit higher for him to be an option late in games. A player like Derozan shoots mid upper 80s %. Butler the same. Tatum the same. It’s just something I think we should see him improving.

Again, because you guys go nuts about this player, I think he’s a really great player. I just think players on this team right now are basically being graded on the championship potential report card and any flaws we are discussing are in regards to their ability to win multiple 7 game series against the very best. It’s an incredibly high bar and one this group has struggled to clear.

 

[Auger34]

Yes. I am the same guy. It’s such a chore to read the game threads right now because there’s so many people complaining about people complaining about Jaylen Brown that it has become impossible to just talk about what you’re seeing in the game you’re watching.

I read all of the game threads. I post in game threads.

I can honestly not believe that this is your takeaway from reading and posting in game threads. I am trying not to be glib but my first reaction was that maybe you were looking at different game threads. It’s maybe a 3:1 ratio of people bitching about him vs. sticking up for him and this is your takeaway? I am seriously floored that anyone could come away with this line of thinking

I’m going to beat a dead horse here but if you really think this is anything but familiarity breeds contempt, then I point you to Jrue Holiday. He was incredibly bad last night, he clanged two free throws in a row in the clutch, and turned the ball over 7 times. If you truly just want people to discuss single games or what they are seeing, that’s fucking front page stuff and there was barely anything.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I wonder how much the new 65 game requirement for All-NBA teams played into JB deciding whether to play or not after the slip. My first take was I felt pretty good about incentivizing players to play more games, but I may have to re-evaluate that position if it causes players to push through things that compromise their health later in the season.

Jaylen was cleared to play and was moving fine. Anyone who has ever pulled or tweaked a groin recognizes that Jaylen didn't pull or tweak his groin. If he was injured he wouldn't have played against Memphis and surely wouldn't have been able to go the following night. He's not injured he's struggling figuring out his role similar to Jrue.

 

[radsoxfan]

Jaylen was cleared to play and was moving fine. Anyone who has ever pulled or tweaked a groin recognizes that Jaylen didn't pull or tweak his groin. If he was injured he wouldn't have played against Memphis and surely wouldn't have been able to go the following night. He's not injured he's struggling figuring out his role similar to Jrue.

For sure. He slipped awkwardly but it probably scared him more than anything else.

There is a 0% chance he is playing through an actual groin strain at this point in the season, even a mild grade 1.

 

[JakeRae]

I read all of the game threads. I post in game threads.

I can honestly not believe that this is your takeaway from reading and posting in game threads. I am trying not to be glib but my first reaction was that maybe you were looking at different game threads. It’s maybe a 3:1 ratio of people bitching about him vs. sticking up for him and this is your takeaway? I am seriously floored that anyone could come away with this line of thinking

I’m going to beat a dead horse here but if you really think this is anything but familiarity breeds contempt, then I point you to Jrue Holiday. He was incredibly bad last night, he clanged two free throws in a row in the clutch, and turned the ball over 7 times. If you truly just want people to discuss single games or what they are seeing, that’s fucking front page stuff and there was barely anything.

The idea that missing shots is something that should be getting discussed in game threads makes no sense to me. Players miss shots all the time. It’s obviously not something everyone here agrees with me on, but personally I only find it interesting to discuss whether they should’ve taken the shot in the first place. Like, I don’t think a baseball player who swings at a good pitch, makes good contact, and lines out needs to be criticized either. If players are making good decisions and that leads to bad outcomes, that’s just life sometimes. When they make bad decisions and it leads to bad outcomes (and I’m actively posting), I will criticize them. If they are a player I like and they do something positive I may comment on that too.

Like, what are people supposed to say about Jrue missing two free throws? He shouldn’t have taken them? Should he have faked an injury after the first miss? What’s there to say?

7 turnovers is bad, so I’m assuming there were things to say about most or all of those, but I really don’t understand the idea we should waste time criticizing players who make the right play when it doesn’t work out. We should support them when that happens because we want them to keep making the right plays (pretending as we as fans do that our support/criticism matters even though it is all just empty air).

 

[riboflav]

That was the only good thing about the entire second half. And they didn't start out playing well. They played mediocre to bd for the first 2 minutes of the quarter, Joe called time out, and sent the same group back out and they (led by PP) took the lead from 2 to 8 in 4 minutes.

Good to know. Thanks for the info.

 

[Auger34]

Like, what are people supposed to say about Jrue missing two free throws? He shouldn’t have taken them? Should he have faked an injury after the first miss? What’s there to say?

7 turnovers is bad, so I’m assuming there were things to say about most or all of those, but I really don’t understand the idea we should waste time criticizing players who make the right play when it doesn’t work out. We should support them when that
happens because we want them to keep making the right plays (pretending as we as fans do that our support/criticism matters even though it is all just empty air).

I am struggling to write a response to this. Most of your posts indicate that you’re a smart guy, so I am not sure where this one came from.

The “criticizing players who make the right play but it doesn’t work out”….you don’t get 7 turnovers trying to make the right play unless you’re playing with a collection of scrubs or morons. I think you know this too, so the framing of this paragraph is kind of insane.

NBA players that aren’t piss poor free throw shooters should never miss two free throws in a row, especially in a clutch situation. What’s there to say? That you shouldn’t miss two fucking free throws in a row. Do you think Jrue is going to read these threads for tips and/or fixes? You obviously don’t because of your last sentence yet your rhetorical questions in the first paragraph seem to think he might? So we should only post if we have mechanical fixes? Every good NBA player is a tough shot maker….based off of your “rules” here, there would be no fucking forum.

And if you’re all about the process as this whole post seems to suggest, you’re definitely going to have to walk me through how you think Trae Young is a top 30 player….because that isn’t even close to tracking as logical

 

[Jimbodandy]

Jaylen was cleared to play and was moving fine. Anyone who has ever pulled or tweaked a groin recognizes that Jaylen didn't pull or tweak his groin. If he was injured he wouldn't have played against Memphis and surely wouldn't have been able to go the following night. He's not injured he's struggling figuring out his role similar to Jrue.

For sure. He slipped awkwardly but it probably scared him more than anything else.
There is a 0% chance he is playing through an actual groin strain at this point in the season, even a mild grade 1.

His legs went in two different directions, and he immediately grabbed as his balls and gingerly limped off the court with his hand there. Clearly he didn't tear it, but those of us who have done that exact thing before (albeit not in front of 18K people) know what that feels like. There's something there, but seems like it a) wasn't that bad, b) scared him more than hurt, and c) was treatable back to close to 100% by professional trainers. I still want them to be super careful with the top6, but the training staff must think that it's behind him.

 

[pjheff]

I don't think money is the sole motivation to make All-NBA. We're taking about guys who are hyper competitive, take real pride in their work, and seek recognition of such.

I don’t think Jaylen is playing hurt right now out of fear that he will fail to meet the minimum threshold of games played necessary for All-NBA consideration. Do you?

 

[lars10]

I read all of the game threads. I post in game threads.

I can honestly not believe that this is your takeaway from reading and posting in game threads. I am trying not to be glib but my first reaction was that maybe you were looking at different game threads. It’s maybe a 3:1 ratio of people bitching about him vs. sticking up for him and this is your takeaway? I am seriously floored that anyone could come away with this line of thinking

I’m going to beat a dead horse here but if you really think this is anything but familiarity breeds contempt, then I point you to Jrue Holiday. He was incredibly bad last night, he clanged two free throws in a row in the clutch, and turned the ball over 7 times. If you truly just want people to discuss single games or what they are seeing, that’s fucking front page stuff and there was barely anything.

Yeah.. the game threads aren’t unreadable because of people defending JB.. they’re unreadable because every time he makes any kind of mistake it’s an indictment of his entire career. He gets Mac Jones level treatment at times and it’s every game regardless of what he does. In a season where the Cs are really really good a few posters are determined to be miserable about him and try to spread that misery as much as possible.

The idea that the defenders are the problem??? I guess the ones that are criticizing him are the only ones that see the truth or know basketball or something?

 

[RorschachsMask]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38952553/boston-celtics-six-starters-meeting-kicked-hot-start

Before the Boston Celtics started the season, Jayson Tatum took it upon himself to call a meeting. This meeting included the Celtics "six starters" of Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Jrue Holiday, Al Horford, Kristaps Porzingis and Derrick White. No coaches or other teammates were present, only the six veterans gathered for a talk about the upcoming season.

"I wanted us to get in the room and talk about it," Tatum told ESPN. "We all are human and have feelings, and I opened the floor and basically said, 'There's six of us. Only five can play at one time. One of us is not going to finish the game all the time.

"Whether it's fair or not, me and JB are probably going to always start, and always finish the game. But we have to be held to a different standard and be able to be coached differently. Whether it's KP and Al, one of you guys may not finish a game, and you have to be OK with that."

Tatum's goal was to head off any problems down the line, when losing games could spark dissension.

"This was a time where, if you're not OK with it, let's talk about it," Tatum said. "I didn't want everybody to, before the season started, say, 'Yeah, I'm, I'm fine with it. Whatever.' And then, you know, we'll lose a couple games, and then things build up.

"It offered a time for us to all be on the same page and express that we were OK. ... It was a great meeting."

 

[joe dokes]

Dribbling / decision making on his dribble. I don’t know if there’s a stat that quantifies just hopeless penetration that is highly likely to lead to a reach in steal but it’s as much his decision to force doing something he isn’t good at as it is his actual leaky handle

Is there? For as many times as we see Brown lose the dribble in traffic, there seem (to my eye) to be many more where he remains aggressive and beats his man (or men) off the dribble for a bucket. How bad is he, really? I dont know. I'm trying to determine if it's "just because we see it."

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38952553/boston-celtics-six-starters-meeting-kicked-hot-start

Tatum is incredibly emotionally intelligent; this is just exhibit W in a long list. So happy he’s on the Cs. Generational talent, generational good dude.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Just my two cents on the Jaylen stuff, while I’m not overtly high on him myself, he definitely seems to catch a lot of flack.

Twitter is a cesspool when it comes to Jaylen, on both sides. Be glad it’s not that bad here, at least lol.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I listened to this pod and it was…interesting.

He started off with a lot of vigor about Brown and then when he actually broke it down play by play there wasn’t much there?

For those who haven't listened, Lowe said that there were 14 possessions from the time the Cs were up 9 with just over 2 minutes left until the end of the game and he charted each one.

Lowe said that he judged 9 of those possessions as "good." Of the remaining five possessions that were "not good," he said JB was involved in four of them.

I've not had a chance to finish the game yet. I suspect that the bigger reasons the Cs lost were (in no particular order) that KP went 1-9 from 3P; Hauser went 1-9 from 3P land (on some really open looks); JT lost Hayward for the back door cut; Holiday missed 2 FTs with 10 seconds left and the Cs missed 10 FTs as a team; and JT missed what appears to be 3 layups in the last 5 minutes of the 4Q + OT.

Plenty of blame to go around but Lowe did focus on JB.

 

[lars10]

For those who haven't listened, Lowe said that there were 14 possessions from the time the Cs were up 9 with just over 2 minutes left until the end of the game and he charted each one.

Lowe said that he judged 9 of those possessions as "good." Of the remaining five possessions that were "not good," he said JB was involved in four of them.

I've not had a chance to finish the game yet. I suspect that the bigger reasons the Cs lost were (in no particular order) that KP went 1-9 from 3P; Hauser went 1-9 from 3P land (on some really open looks); JT lost Hayward for the back door cut; Holiday missed 2 FTs with 10 seconds left and the Cs missed 10 FTs as a team; and JT missed what appears to be 3 layups in the last 5 minutes of the 4Q + OT.

Plenty of blame to go around but Lowe did focus on JB.

Is he a member here?

 

[bellowthecat]

I don’t think Jaylen is playing hurt right now out of fear that he will fail to meet the minimum threshold of games played necessary for All-NBA consideration. Do you?

He sure didn't look hurt in either of those games. I bring it up because it feels like a spot where the team might use it as an excuse to get the player some extra rest (sore player with a b2b scheduled). Clearly it wasn't an issue for him and my initial feelings are shaded by my own perception of how bad the slip looked at the time. It just made me wonder if this is part of a culture change in the NBA now that awards have GP requirements and the league is trying to crack down on guys sitting for no reason. JB in particular has been near the line of GP the last few years (57, 58, 66, 67) so it seems natural that he might consider getting to 65 one of his goals.

 

[SteveF]

Plenty of blame to go around but Lowe did focus on JB.

The question Lowe is asking is not why this team lost this particular game in November, but whether one reason they've lost playoff series in June (crunch time offensive execution) has been fixed. The only way to do that is to go through the actual possessions and make a judgment about the decisions players made, and Jaylen Brown's decisions stood out at as being particularly poor. I mostly agree with that assessment.

 

[4 6 3 DP]

Not that this is a confessional but i am realizing that I am amongst the people here who is unreasonably harsh in evaluating Brown. I don't like him as a player, and it absolutely causes me to skew my evaluation of his contributions. I like how Tatum and Holiday and KP play (I equally disliked Smart as a player) and therefore I am a very biased judge of him.

Put another way, I appreciate the back and forth, because I expect better of myself, and this board forces me to confront it.

 

[benhogan]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iCp544S8U


who is RYB_311?

 

[Auger34]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iCp544S8U


who is RYB_311?

I normally hate it when this board is really harsh on the media….but this was pretty fucking bad.
Media companies need to create content and it’s a long season so everything gets overblown. And I appreciate Bill trying to go “we aren’t trying to say there’s a problem or that he can’t fit in”…..and then proceeds to spend 20 minutes doing exactly that.

But tje cherry on the cake is KOC saying “there will be end of game and important situations where Mazzulla will probably have to sit Jaylen so he can play all of these high +/- lineups!”
My god, I almost drove off the road it was so goddamn stupid.

 

[Auger34]

Not that this is a confessional but i am realizing that I am amongst the people here who is unreasonably harsh in evaluating Brown. I don't like him as a player, and it absolutely causes me to skew my evaluation of his contributions. I like how Tatum and Holiday and KP play (I equally disliked Smart as a player) and therefore I am a very biased judge of him.

Put another way, I appreciate the back and forth, because I expect better of myself, and this board forces me to confront it.

We all have players like this and I appreciate the honesty.
For example, Grant Williams just annoyed the shit out of me. Didn’t love the way he played, didn’t love him always yapping and whining…this definitely made me a little biased against him. We are all human and we all have varying degrees of things like this.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I normally hate it when this board is really harsh on the media….but this was pretty fucking bad.
Media companies need to create content and it’s a long season so everything gets overblown. And I appreciate Bill trying to go “we aren’t trying to say there’s a problem or that he can’t fit in”…..and then proceeds to spend 20 minutes doing exactly that.

But tje cherry on the cake is KOC saying “there will be end of game and important situations where Mazzulla will probably have to sit Jaylen so he can play all of these high +/- lineups!”
My god, I almost drove off the road it was so goddamn stupid.

I'm generally on the other end of the spectrum on the media and find that the informative, unbiased voices are very few and far between these days. There are definitely some, but man it gets harder every day to find someone spitting out valuable information amidst a tremendous amount of pressure to get clicks and shit. Simmons himself was once a solid binky, here and elsewhere. Even those of us who never met him or engaged on his various sites/platforms appreciated his brilliance. But eek, it's not the same now. Too many ex-great writers now fighting for relevance. This is not about Jaylen for me. I'm kinda crushed about what some of these cats have turned into.

 

[benhogan]

I normally hate it when this board is really harsh on the media….but this was pretty fucking bad.
Media companies need to create content and it’s a long season so everything gets overblown. And I appreciate Bill trying to go “we aren’t trying to say there’s a problem or that he can’t fit in”…..and then proceeds to spend 20 minutes doing exactly that.

But tje cherry on the cake is KOC saying “there will be end of game and important situations where Mazzulla will probably have to sit Jaylen so he can play all of these high +/- lineups!”
My god, I almost drove off the road it was so goddamn stupid.

It's all good, we're only a few seasons removed from starting Tristan Thompson, Evan Fournier & Kemba Walker in the playoffs

We've got high-class problems these days

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I'm generally on the other end of the spectrum on the media and find that the informative, unbiased voices are very few and far between these days. There are definitely some, but man it gets harder every day to find someone spitting out valuable information amidst a tremendous amount of pressure to get clicks and shit. Simmons himself was once a solid binky, here and elsewhere. Even those of us who never met him or engaged on his various sites/platforms appreciated his brilliance. But eek, it's not the same now. Too many ex-great writers now fighting for relevance. This is not about Jaylen for me. I'm kinda crushed about what some of these cats have turned into.

As someone in the business (media, not sports media), I can't really even explain how much more people are being asked to do for so much less money. The quality suffers big-time.

Those NBA site jobs pay $40k and ask for 16-20 articles a WEEK. In 2001, I made $40k to write literally 2 articles a week of basically the same length. It's insane.

 

[CreightonGubanich]

I've been thinking a lot about the Jaylen Brown stuff lately. I think a lot of why he's so criticized boils down to the fact that he does one thing very well: score the basketball efficiently, at volume. When he's not doing that, like when he's going through a shooting slump, he just doesn't look good. He's not Paul Pierce or Jayson Tatum, guys that will just pivot to a different part of their game when their shots aren't falling. He isn't much of a creator for others, his defense is *shrug emoji* (personally, I think he grades out about average to slightly above if you factor in both the on-ball and off-ball stuff, but lots of others disagree). He also turns the ball over a fair amount, and he often misses tough shots. It's hard to watch when the shot's not falling, and sometimes we forget that it'll start to fall again before too long.

But here's the thing about Jaylen, and why I think he's worth putting up with the headaches. On this particular team, the things that he's not good at are things we don't need him to do. We don't actually need another on-ball creator (for others). It'd be nice if he could guard the opponent's best wing player, but it isn't actually necessary. What we do need is a relatively efficient volume scorer to take some of the pressure off of Tatum. As much as I like Holiday and White, they'd be miscast in that role. Brown is a guy who you want finishing the play. Do I wish he handled the ball a bit less? Absolutely. Could you replace him with an elite 3-and-D guy? I don't think so. As much as Jaylen can at times be maddening when he tries to create his own offense, he actually does have the ability to do it, at all three levels, as well as in transition. Without him, we're one KP injury away from teams taking the ball out of Tatum's hands and the team really struggling to create offense.

Sure, there are guys better at creating offense for themselves than Jaylen. But all of those guys that I can think of would take the ball out of the hands of our other scorers even more than Brown does. I think what I'm trying to say here is that the role that Jaylen is filling is a tricky one. He needs to be the second option scorer, while also not taking the ball out of Tatum's hands. Brown's ability to cut, shoot off the catch, and get out in transition are all underrated aspects of what this team is trying to do offensively. Teams have to account for him, as more than just a shooter, and that creates some breathing room for Tatum offensively.

The criticisms are mostly fair, but I think questioning his place on the team is misguided.

 

[Jimbodandy]

As someone in the business (media, not sports media), I can't really even explain how much more people are being asked to do for so much less money. The quality suffers big-time.

Those NBA site jobs pay $40k and ask for 16-20 articles a WEEK. In 2001, I made $40k to write literally 2 articles a week of basically the same length. It's insane.

That's a great contribution, and I really appreciate it. Probably should try to hold the side of judgy when I express my disappointment at the current state.

 

[BaseballJones]

As someone in the business (media, not sports media), I can't really even explain how much more people are being asked to do for so much less money. The quality suffers big-time.

Those NBA site jobs pay $40k and ask for 16-20 articles a WEEK. In 2001, I made $40k to write literally 2 articles a week of basically the same length. It's insane.

I love writing (and as many here know, I write books), and I'm a very fast writer. But 16-20 articles a week is INSANE. That'll make someone who loves to write...absolutely HATE it in short order.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I had to go back and find the job listing again just to make sure I wasn't making it up. It's lunacy. Basically just a guarantee of garbage:

 

[joe dokes]

"You'll also monitor analytics" for story ideas.

That ought to spur creativity and help drum up some original ideas!

I just heard the sound of thousands of news editors rolling in their graves.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

The question Lowe is asking is not why this team lost this particular game in November, but whether one reason they've lost playoff series in June (crunch time offensive execution) has been fixed. The only way to do that is to go through the actual possessions and make a judgment about the decisions players made, and Jaylen Brown's decisions stood out at as being particularly poor. I mostly agree with that assessment.

Yeah, I understood what he was trying to get to but the Cs were at the top (or pretty close thereto) in clutch net rating before the game; it was the second-night of B2B on the road; most guys weren't shooting well - I guess I don't know how indicative that game will be when the playoffs come around.

Is he a member here?

I doubt he has time for the great unwashed like us.

 

[NomarsFool]

I don't know how someone can write 4-5 "articles" a day that isn't more than completely garbage.

Jaylen is fantastic in transition, and he's fantastic with his turn-around jumpers. He probably shouldn't try and put the ball on the floor and drive through/around defenders, as that is where he gets into trouble. I guess that probably happens sometimes in transition, too. I also get annoyed with his occasional 3PA from >2 feet behind the arc, but he's not alone in that. I just can't stand 'heat check" 3P attempts. I think it's just a stupid, stupid shot.

 

[timelysarcasm]

I had to go back and find the job listing again just to make sure I wasn't making it up. It's lunacy. Basically just a guarantee of garbage:

View attachment 74197

What utter horseshit that is. I've seen similar in entertainment where interns are churning out 2-3 social media posts per day, but that amount for full "mult-page" features is absurd.

I don't know how someone can write 4-5 "articles" a day that isn't more than completely garbage.

"ChatGPT, write me a 1000 word article about how Jaylen Brown is killing the Boston Celtics."

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Conversation with Bard

Please write a 500 word article on how Jaylen Brown's 2023-24 production is hurting the Boston Celtics

• Jaylen Brown's Struggles Hinder Celtics' Championship Aspirations

The Boston Celtics entered the 2023-24 season with high expectations, fresh off their NBA Finals appearance the previous year. However, the team has struggled to find consistency, and one of the primary culprits has been Jaylen Brown, the team's All-Star forward.
Brown, who signed a lucrative supermax contract extension in the offseason, has been plagued by inconsistent play and a lack of efficiency. His shooting percentages have dipped across the board, and he has struggled to create his own shot. As a result, Brown has not been able to provide the Celtics with the consistent scoring punch they need to be a true contender.
Brown's struggles have been particularly evident in the team's losses. In their 10 losses this season, Brown is averaging just 15 points per game on 38% shooting from the field. In contrast, in their 15 wins, Brown is averaging 22 points per game on 48% shooting.
The Celtics' struggles have not gone unnoticed by head coach Ime Udoka. Udoka has been critical of Brown's play at times, and he has challenged the forward to be more consistent.
"Jaylen is a talented player, but he needs to be more consistent," Udoka said. "He needs to be able to make shots, create his own shot, and defend at a high level. He's capable of doing all of those things, but he just hasn't been doing it consistently enough."
Brown's struggles have also been noticed by his teammates. Jayson Tatum, Brown's All-Star running mate, has expressed concern about Brown's play.
"I know Jaylen is capable of playing at a high level," Tatum said. "He just needs to find a way to get back to playing the way he knows how. We need him to be a consistent scorer for us to be successful."
Brown's struggles have been a major factor in the Celtics' disappointing start to the season. If the team wants to make a championship run, they will need Brown to find his footing and start playing at the level he is capable of.
Here are some specific examples of how Jaylen Brown's production is hurting the Boston Celtics:

• In the Celtics' loss to the Milwaukee Bucks on November 15, Brown scored just 12 points on 4-of-12 shooting from the field.
• In the Celtics' loss to the Golden State Warriors on November 22, Brown scored just 14 points on 5-of-15 shooting from the field.
• In the Celtics' loss to the Toronto Raptors on November 29, Brown scored just 16 points on 6-of-19 shooting from the field.

In addition to his shooting struggles, Brown has also been turnover-prone this season. He is averaging 2.5 turnovers per game, which is up from 1.8 turnovers per game last season.
The Celtics' championship aspirations hinge on Jaylen Brown's ability to return to form. If Brown can find a way to be more consistent and efficient, the Celtics will be a dangerous team in the Eastern Conference playoffs. However, if Brown continues to struggle, the Celtics' chances of winning a championship.

 

[Auger34]

I'm generally on the other end of the spectrum on the media and find that the informative, unbiased voices are very few and far between these days. There are definitely some, but man it gets harder every day to find someone spitting out valuable information amidst a tremendous amount of pressure to get clicks and shit. Simmons himself was once a solid binky, here and elsewhere. Even those of us who never met him or engaged on his various sites/platforms appreciated his brilliance. But eek, it's not the same now. Too many ex-great writers now fighting for relevance. This is not about Jaylen for me. I'm kinda crushed about what some of these cats have turned into.

It’s not about Jaylen for me either.

I’m not going to go full Simmons hater here, but I am 34 and I will say he used to be a hero of mine….lets just say that’s no longer the case by a long shot…and the reasons why are very apparent when you listen to that podcast.

Let’s just say that repeatedly claiming you’re not doing the thing that you’re obviously doing doesn’t make me side with you…it pisses me off and shows you suck and are locked into the cycle you mock

 

[InstaFace]

"ChatGPT, write me a 1000 word article about how Jaylen Brown is killing the Boston Celtics."

This got a hefty laugh out of me. At the rate employers like that are making a farce out of the notion of journalism, the output of the two will be indistinguishable pretty soon. Some light editing, add a few statistics, spot check, and hit send.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

God, I hate it so much. The veneer of truthiness covering up a sea of nonsense.

And, yes, I'm training to be an electrician.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Sitting on big leads until they almost blow it or, on rare occasions, actually do blow it, seems to be a signature characteristic of the Tatum/Brown era Celtics.

Tonight, the Celtics had a 16 point lead with 5 minutes left and allowed the Bucks to close it to 3 with an 18-5 run, before hanging on for a 6 point win.

In the previous game, they had a 9 point lead with 2:20 to go, and gave up a 9-0 run forcing OT, which they lost.

It's just what these guys do, and it is maddening. They played 43 great minutes against the Bucks and then all but wasted that effort.

 

[JCizzle]

Sitting on big leads until they almost blow it or, on rare occasions, actually do blow it, seems to be a signature characteristic of the Tatum/Brown era Celtics.

Tonight, the Celtics had a 16 point lead with 5 minutes left and allowed the Bucks to close it to 3 with an 18-5 run, before hanging on for a 6 point win.

In the previous game, they had a 9 point lead with 2:20 to go, and gave up a 9-0 run forcing OT, which they lost.

It's just what these guys do, and it is maddening. They played 43 great minutes against the Bucks and then all but wasted that effort.

I dunno. The Celtics and Bruins both got big ass wins against the major rivals! Beautiful night overall.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Sitting on big leads until they almost blow it or, on rare occasions, actually do blow it, seems to be a signature characteristic of the Tatum/Brown era Celtics.

Tonight, the Celtics had a 16 point lead with 5 minutes left and allowed the Bucks to close it to 3 with an 18-5 run, before hanging on for a 6 point win.

In the previous game, they had a 9 point lead with 2:20 to go, and gave up a 9-0 run forcing OT, which they lost.

It's just what these guys do, and it is maddening. They played 43 great minutes against the Bucks and then all but wasted that effort.

Those two bolded words are all that matters. I rest my case!

 

[Ed Hillel]

In addition to scoring, Jaylen looked to create offense for others tonight more than any other time I can remember. He had 8 assists and is starting to develop a potentially lethal 2-man game with KP. If they continue to build on this, defenses are going to have to stop collapsing on defense when Jaylen has the ball, and everything is going to come easier for everyone and the turnover risk will reduce.

Regarding the Bucks, their defense outside the paint stinks. Middleton is cooked, too. They are still dangerous because Giannis and Dame can just take over on a whim, but I don’t think, as constituted, they are as scary as in the past. I’m not sure Lopez is going to hold up over long minutes in the playoffs, either.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Sitting on big leads until they almost blow it or, on rare occasions, actually do blow it, seems to be a signature characteristic of the Tatum/Brown era Celtics.

Tonight, the Celtics had a 16 point lead with 5 minutes left and allowed the Bucks to close it to 3 with an 18-5 run, before hanging on for a 6 point win.

In the previous game, they had a 9 point lead with 2:20 to go, and gave up a 9-0 run forcing OT, which they lost.

It's just what these guys do, and it is maddening. They played 43 great minutes against the Bucks and then all but wasted that effort.

A LOT of context missing here. The refs down the stretch of this game were as one sided as refs could possibly be. C's were getting hacked all over the place as they tried to be aggressive, Lopez was just shoving guys all over the court, a bullshit tech on KP and on and on, and the Bucks got hot.

But none of it mattered, except to folks who had the C's -4.5, which they had covered until a last second, buzzer beater 3 that meant nothing.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

If Joe doesn't keep the 2nd unit with Jaylen/KP/White together after he yanks Tatum in the 1st, I will lose my fucking shit. That threesome is so fucking good together, and it should be obvious to a middle school basketball coach, never mind an NBA head coach.

 

[Nator]

Sitting on big leads until they almost blow it or, on rare occasions, actually do blow it, seems to be a signature characteristic of the Tatum/Brown era Celtics.

Tonight, the Celtics had a 16 point lead with 5 minutes left and allowed the Bucks to close it to 3 with an 18-5 run, before hanging on for a 6 point win.

In the previous game, they had a 9 point lead with 2:20 to go, and gave up a 9-0 run forcing OT, which they lost.

It's just what these guys do, and it is maddening. They played 43 great minutes against the Bucks and then all but wasted that effort.

The whole point of building a 16 point lead after 43 minutes is that you can allow up to 15 points in the final 5 and still win.