Or throwing either of them out for talking too much. LeBron argues calls like that and more once a week… I guess the major difference is LeBron waits til the cameras are off… or at least when other things are going on.. Tatum should’ve waited til the FTs were being shot and then talked to the ref I guess.
Yeah, I will never understand why the NBA compounds their inherent problems with officiating (basketball is too quick a game to correctly officiate consistently ) by over-empowering their referees. There are far, far too many technicals and way too many players thrown out in the NBA.
The Celtics went right at him and he looked helpless on defense, so either he is washed or working his way back.
With Middleton I looked at two things.. 1. His numbers have been declining generally over the past few years. 2. His age.. he may be working his way back but injuries at that age aren’t easy to come back from..and he’s slowing down regardless.
I think, if I had to guess, the league isn’t trying to empower the refs so much as cut down on the complaining, which, like the load management and flopping, they likely believe harms the on-court product. The problem of course is that players carrying on after every possession and shot is so endemic to the NBA now—and unequally enforced—that it is very hard put the toothpaste back into the tube. Compounding matters, the league also didn't really say this was going to be a point of emphasis this season so people are rightfully kind of confused as to what is going on with guys like Porzingis getting teed up seemingly once a game.
I think the main problem is that it seems to be enforced differently for each player.. basically by comparing any behavior to how the player normally acts vs what is unacceptable behavior across the board. So players like Draymond are given one set of behaviors that are acceptable vs someone like Tatum or others who are judged entirely differently… at least that’s what I think I’ve read in explanations for the past techs being given. It also seemingly varies with each crew which also doesn’t help.
I play a regular pick up game that does not use refs. The honor system works just fine. But when I dropped in to play in a friend’s league that plays on the weekends and uses paid officials, it was appalling. It was as if these guys really wanted to get their moneys worth and rake these referees over the coals. I’m sure that’s one end of the spectrum but I had no doubt these guys were taking some inspiration from what they saw on television.
This is true in every single sport. I wouldn't try and make this an NBA only issue.
If you are arguing that he's seen his peak, we agree there. Some people have him as washed - I don't agree. I think that if he is reasonably healthy come playoff time, he will be a problem.
So, I do think think the hand waving, gesticulating, and all that physically demonstrative stuff hurts the product. I’m completely on board with that. The yapping stuff is far less noticeable as a fan and in my view, absent some magic words or threats, I’d let all of that go. It’s also much easier to enforce correctly. Whether someone says a particular word or not is objective, and the players would learn right quick what not to say. That’s one of the things that I find weird about the war on Kristaps is that from a fan perspective it hardly looks like he’s doing anything. He doesn’t look that upset he’s not jumping up and down and going full Lebron, so why the Ts unless he is saying something specific. I don’t really want to see players tossed for talking as they run up the court.
I'd say this is true in everyone sport and in society as well. You set your individual behavior standards and people will adapt to them. Not saying it's right or wrong but it just is.
I don't think the NFL really treats certain players differently regarding calls.
There's definitely some of that in most sports, but the caste system in the NBA is well beyond that of other sports.
Jayson Tatum is 12th in free throw attempts this year. He was 6th last year. 7th the year before that.
This is very true. I used to play in a 25+ league and a 40+ league. The 25+ had better competition but my lord the bitching at the refs and at teammates and at opposing players was absurd. Sucked all the fun out of it. Now I just play in the 40+ because everyone’s biggest concern is getting to the bar after the game without any injuries.
If you thought the 25+ league was bad, you check out a lawyer's league. Players who are trained to argue. Refs should get combat pay in those leagues.
LOL, been binging SUITS recently and the thoughts of Louis Litt playing hoops made me laugh (& we all know that guy)
Let's keep this discussion on topic. There are plenty of other threads to discuss the NBA.
I'm not saying that he doesn't get calls.
The correct answer is PHI - not because of how the teams are presently constituted but because PHI has the assets and contracts to make a big move.
curious if those defending the tech yesterday still feel good about it—note also the NBA has confirmed the initial call was crap and reversed the flagrant.
Maybe I’m in the minority but I honestly don’t get why people get so upset about players complaining to the refs. How does this “take away from the game” so much that it has to be dealt with with technicals and ejections which, quite literally, take away (points and players) from the game?
it takes away from the game because it's annoying and a distraction. at a certain point it's like asking someone why they don't like cilantro. idk man I just get pissed off watching it I dont really need to justify my distaste.
I'm with you. I understand that working refs for future calls are a part of the games dynamic. The refs understand it which is why they have ongoing dialogue with players throughout the game that rarely results in players crossing the line.
It started right after he got sick. I'm not sure this is what's happened, but there is some garbage virus going around New England that is affecting people for like 3-4 weeks. He's looked noticeably more drained and is leaving a lot of shots short, especially long distance. Speculation, obviously, but worth considering.
RSV is rampant. Dangerous for infants and the elderly and presents as a bad cold for everyone else. If he's been suffering they should have given him a few days/games off.
But that’s why it should be something coaches not just referees manage. Which is why I think the best solution is to change game conditions so that these type of natural consequences are more omnipresent. If you have say, eight seconds (I have no idea what number would actually be appropriate), to get in position to rebound a first free-throw attempt (you could even have non-rebounding players required to be on the bench by that time) there wouldn’t be much time for yapping. An indisputable technical could be called if players weren’t in proper position by the designated time. This would take away most of the subjectivity that makes current technicals so frustrating.
I would be fine with a "don't complain while the ball is in play" policy. Demonstrative "WTF!" arm gestures? T. Bitching while running back up the court? T unless it's really under your breath and you're not staring at 'em. Falling over after taking a jumper and splashing yourself down on the floor because you didn't get a call? T, unless you immediately pick yourself up and keep going (i.e. only a T if you sit there trying to show up the refs)
And a thousand random Ts at the discretion of already poor officiating will improve the product? How about instead of focusing on the players we work on the officials and officiating and try to fix the actual problem?
The biggest issue for me is that in at least a majority of cases, the complaining player is wrong. (He did commit a foul / was not fouled).
Calling fouls on contested drives to the basket - accurately and consistently - is incredibly hard. And it's a necessary, structural part of the game, so we will struggle with it for the rest of time.
This would be a nightmare for game flow.. a parade of free throws at every stoppage of play.. many times at the other end of the court?
JVG would joke that the Refs should get to use replay every time a player whines about a call or a missed call.
If we're just talking the last 10 games I'll say I'm not surprised. His defensive effort has been sub par of late by my eye.
His defense probably hasn’t been good, but one person’s defensive rating being almost 20 points lower than the next closest teammate is absurdly flukey.
