One thing that stood out tonight was how often, and how easily, SGA took Jrue off the dribble.
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Wyc/Pags can easily do what Mark Cuban recently did.I think something that doesn’t get discussed on here enough is:
- The Celtics operate their business at a loss. They made money a few years ago when under the cap and making a long run with the extra playoff revenue.
- They are going to be deeper in a loss this year and next.
- The person running business ops (Wyc) isn’t actually that liquid. His father put together the ownership group 20 years ago, most of Wyc’s net worth is tied up in the Celtics and a few other PE investments. Pags on the other hand had his wealth surge after they bought the team, but he’s not fully running the show.
Now my understanding is that they’ve been greenlit to do what it takes for the next two years, but adding more long term deals is likely a tough sell for Brad to ownership at the movement.
Looked like Tatum gave him a little trouble when he picked him up. Fun game.Seriously, I've been following SGA's ascension in daily box scores, but watching him over the course of an entire game ... he's fantastic.
Moosh.The Cs are undefeated when they shoot above 32% from 3.
funny how that goes by the wayside when playing a really good team on the roadMoosh.
I mostly agree, but there are some things to take from it. The biggest one is that they had some trouble cracking OKC's defense for long stretches, although missing tons of open 3s in the 3rd quarter didn't help the cracking.Tatum’s turnovers were a low pass that Holiday fumbled out of bounds, a defensive rebound that got knocked away, an illegal screen, and a tipped lob to Kornet lol. I’d say that the 30/13/8 makes up for it.
Thunder shot 45% from three, Jaylen and Holiday struggled, and the Celtics lost by 4. Doesn’t matter in the least, there’s nothing to take from it.
I didn't know this. The most impressive think about the owners, then, is theit willingness to do this despite not having the typical owner wealth.I think something that doesn’t get discussed on here enough is:
- The Celtics operate their business at a loss. They made money a few years ago when under the cap and making a long run with the extra playoff revenue.
- They are going to be deeper in a loss this year and next.
- The person running business ops (Wyc) isn’t actually that liquid. His father put together the ownership group 20 years ago, most of Wyc’s net worth is tied up in the Celtics and a few other PE investments. Pags on the other hand had his wealth surge after they bought the team, but he’s not fully running the show.
Now my understanding is that they’ve been greenlit to do what it takes for the next two years, but adding more long term deals is likely a tough sell for Brad to ownership at the movement.
OKC has several guys who are, if not weak, less strong than they will be later in their careers—-SGA, Chet, better Williams, etc. I’d guess one adjustment is Celts leaning more into that - they already won on the boards, but we saw less bullyball from Jays, from Jrue (who was hurt and couldn’t hit anything when he tried), Horford, and I’d guess some of Brissett and possibly even Stevens crashing for a few.I mostly agree, but there are some things to take from it. The biggest one is that they had some trouble cracking OKC's defense for long stretches, although missing tons of open 3s in the 3rd quarter didn't help the cracking.
Jrue was pretty bad on both ends (benched down the stretch for PP), but that's maybe less a takeaway than just he's hurt/tired and should sit a few games.
SGA and Jalen Williams are really talented scorers, and you have to concede something to take that away. When Josh Giddey is hitting 4/7 and SGA (30% 3-point shooter on low volume) is hitting stepback 3s, it's hard to have an answer. Credit the coaching staff for staying creative and trying to find things all the way to the end though.
"Make or miss league" seems too strong a takeaway for a game in which Boston went 15/40 and OKC went 18/40 from 3. In an actual series, I think the C's biggest adjustment would be figuring out which defensive matchups work, and also executing more precisely and forcefully offensively.
Pags has like 3-4 bn at this point. His wealth surged with private equity’s success since they bought the team.I didn't know this. The most impressive think about the owners, then, is theit willingness to do this despite not having the typical owner wealth.
That was my first time watching him for a full game also, I was thinking the exact same thing.Seriously, I've been following SGA's ascension in daily box scores, but watching him over the course of an entire game ... he's fantastic.
They could be scary good very soon if they play their cards right. They have the best draft capital in the league on top of the solid core they already have that should improve as they hit their prime. As others have mentioned they need some size/muscle, and they have plenty of picks they can use to get it. And then they'll still have picks leftover to add more young talent in upcoming drafts. With health and a smart GM they should be a major factor for years.I can't believe all the draft picks the Thunder still have, right through 2030. At some point, Presti will have to cash these in and build around some nucleus. I wonder if we'll see another young Harden/Westbrook/Durant lineup taking shape.
He could also buy a larger stake in the club, I assume which wouldn’t even introduce another player in the mix.Pags has like 3-4 bn at this point. His wealth surged with private equity’s success since they bought the team.
Should be begin referring to Wyc as...Thanks Pags?Pags has like 3-4 bn at this point. His wealth surged with private equity’s success since they bought the team.
Right, this would be my biggest concern for the Thunder: do they have enough buttons to push over a 7-game series?OKC has several guys who are, if not weak, less strong than they will be later in their careers—-SGA, Chet, better Williams, etc. I’d guess one adjustment is Celts leaning more into that - they already won on the boards, but we saw less bullyball from Jays, from Jrue (who was hurt and couldn’t hit anything when he tried), Horford, and I’d guess some of Brissett and possibly even Stevens crashing for a few.
I totally see why people are trade-mocking Beef Stew and guys like that to OKC, I suspect in a playoff series teams like MN and Lakers are going to punish them inside and with strength.
It’s an oversimplification however I think it is a good takeaway. OKC went 48-91 from the floor while the Celtics were 42-92. OKC’s 6 FG advantage won the game for them. The Celtics got to the FT line more frequently and had more rebounds than OKC but that wasn’t enough to overcome the FG disparity."Make or miss league" seems too strong a takeaway for a game in which Boston went 15/40 and OKC went 18/40 from 3. In an actual series, I think the C's biggest adjustment would be figuring out which defensive matchups work, and also executing more precisely and forcefully offensively.
Historically speaking there is the playoff progression that nearly every Champion goes through when they grow together. It is likely that the Thunder grab a series, maybe even two, but then succumb to more physical and more experienced teams in the WC who are also really good. They don't need a lot as far as personnel....they need to age and they need a physical frontcourt presence like if a heathy Steven Adams was still there. That's the next acquisition they need....Duren, Beef Stew, Day'Ron Sharpe from the Nets, etc.Unfortunately (fortunately?) we aren't likely to see these two teams match up in a 7 game series. OKC was very impressive. But I think over the course of a series the Celts would be too much for them. OKC would take a game or two for sure though, and might even push it to 7.
Yes, even look at last night, the thunder played poorly down the stretch. SGA started forcing things, and the team stood around watching at times. The Thunder talent is real, and they are deep. But they are exceptionally young. They have guys who are still transitioning from teens to men physically.Historically speaking there is the playoff progression that nearly every Champion goes through when they grow together. It is likely that the Thunder grab a series, maybe even two, but then succumb to more physical and more experienced teams in the WC who are also really good. They don't need a lot as far as personnel....they need to age and they need a physical frontcourt presence like if a heathy Steven Adams was still there. That's the next acquisition they need....Duren, Beef Stew, Day'Ron Sharpe from the Nets, etc.
As for last night I mentioned in game thread and/or Silver Dollar in early 2Q how everything was coming easy for OKC and not so much for us. The expected run came in that middle stretch of the 2H and it's tough to overcome a deficit when a team is so good at scoring as this Thunder team is....especially at home with the crowd treating this as a playoff game which the team fed off. This was one of those expected losses on the schedule so we move on. Bring on Kris Dunn and the Jazz!!
Ever since halftime of the Pistons' game, he's almost completely excised the bad 3s (and willingly taken the good ones, which is necessary).We got a preview of playoff Tatum last night. 30/13/8, only 5 threes, drove 15 times, had 13 potential assists, and made SGA a non factor down the stretch.
The Thunder threw the kitchen sink at him like he will see in the playoffs, and he consistently was able to get to the rim, draw fouls, and create a ton of wide open looks for others. He just had some tough rim luck, the whole team did, was stupid lol.
I’ve always said I hate the iso pull-ups from the wing, especially the right. And he’s 100% leaned on it too hard this season for sure. I also think he was kind of just letting everyone else get comfortable in the offense, and was just picking his spots to try to take over.Ever since halftime of the Pistons' game, he's almost completely excised the bad 3s (and willingly taken the good ones, which is necessary).
It looks like he's ready to start being who he needs to be.
The bolded: exactly. Having a player who is elite in those zones is the key to playoff basketball, and sets the team up for all the other stuff that everyone wants (open 3s, rim looks). It's been the biggest thing missing from the last few good Celtics' teams, including the Finals one.The stuff he’s made leaps with this season is playoff basketball juice. Post ups, mid range, iso, he’s amongst the most efficient in basketball in all three of them. And that’s while sharing the floor with bench crews a ton. In the playoffs when he’s out there with KP most of the time? Nah, lights out for other defenses.
I’m enjoying the hell out of this regular season, but I’m salivating for the playoff run that I think we’re going to see from the team.The bolded: exactly. Having a player who is elite in those zones is the key to playoff basketball, and sets the team up for all the other stuff that everyone wants (open 3s, rim looks). It's been the biggest thing missing from the last few good Celtics' teams, including the Finals one.
The Celtics now have Tatum, who is monstrous there, one guy who is great against mismatches (KP), and another who can go to work in the mid-post on spaced-out floors (JB).
I thought you were about to describe the identical other play where he dished to Horford on the wing for an open 3 as a sign of his growth. I'll take the three points out of those two possessions.Early in the game, JT got the ball w :10 on the clock after the initial set broke down. He's shaking and baking as his defender isn't biting so I can tell the step-back 3 is the last resort and it's coming! All I can think about is this fuckin board. Then as the defender closes out hard....Jason fires the ball off Jrue's(?) feet in the corner for the turnover.
It was at that moment when my wife asked me why I then blurted out "Hope you're happy SoSH"
I'm not sure it was so much growth as it was excellent scouting and close out defense that prevented him from getting the shot off as that was clearly his next attempts once dribble penetration was stopped. After the close out the only thing left is the last second pass into a someone else's shot clock violation.I thought you were about to describe the identical other play where he dished to Horford on the wing for an open 3 as a sign of his growth. I'll take the three points out of those two possessions.
Yeah, he might have the best first step in the league. Just blasts by everyone. Interestingly, the only defender that seemed to give him trouble was Tatum who is long/quick enough to play back while still getting a hand in his face if he pulls up.One thing that stood out tonight was how often, and how easily, SGA took Jrue off the dribble.
he made a great pass to an open shooter for a three that they made and this is the take? he wasn't even being closed out on the one I'm thinking of he just had the look like he was about to lazily jack itI'm not sure it was so much growth as it was excellent scouting and close out defense that prevented him from getting the shot off as that was clearly his next attempts once dribble penetration was stopped. After the close out the only thing left is the last second pass into a someone else's shot clock violation.
the reality is Tatum's stroke is off, sharing the ball for an Open 3 is growthhe made a great pass to an open shooter for a three that they made and this is the take? he wasn't even being closed out on the one I'm thinking of he just had the look like he was about to lazily jack it
Exactly. When people see how Tatum defensed SGA when we needed him to compared to Jrue and Derrick while still carrying the offensive load hopefully they realize just how many levels he is above anyone on this team and in that handful at the top of the league.When I see JT get serious about one on one defending against great players, it reminds me that he has been doing just that so many times in his skills training work for the past dozen years. In his trainer’s videos, he would go one on one against players as different as Embiid and Clarkson, one right after another. Tatum looked very confident he could do pretty well defending SGA, who is an incredible talent
OKC smartly exploited the PP/JWill matchup, along with a couple of clutch Chet threes, along with a few big plays from SGA to hang on for the win. OKC could be a Finals opponent for the Cs at least once this decade, although probably not this year.
Too soonHe did a lot better with the "guys, I got this" defense on the other teams star than Kyrie did vs Giannis, that's for sure!
He would fit in really nicely on Philly next to MaxeyMain problem with Jrue is that he's going to be one of the best free agents on the market next offseason. I don't think the Celtics could/would have even a top three offer if he decides to test the market.
That's my guess as well---it was a huge gamble to give up what they did unless they have some confidence what an extension will take.My 2 cents: Jrue's Agent/Brad already worked out the parameters of an extension when the deal went down in Oct. I'd guess a KP-type discounted extension was verbally agreed to. We'll know by April. Have to keep Jrue's salary slot & move him next year if it's not working.
This is what was said at the time:
Brad Stevens made clear the intention is for this to be a long-term partnership with the five-time All-Defensive Team selection.
"It seems, talking to people on both sides, that it's very much the plan," said Himmelsbach. "He has to wait six months to sign an extension, so I think April 2 is the exact day he would be eligible for one, but I would suspect them to figure something out; this isn't a Jrue Holiday rental."
The Celtics have already shown they're willing to go over the second apron, and owner Wyc Grousbeck said at Holiday's introductory press conference, "I look at the next six years as a real opportunity for us."
https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/news/the-latest-on-a-potential-celtics-extension-with-jrue-holiday