Brad Beal traded to Suns

radsoxfan

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A lot of anti Brad Beal propaganda in this thread, I’m just noting it now, I like the player.
Beal is good, maybe he has a late career contender bump and gets back to being really good.

His contract is just rough, he duplicates what they get from Booker, he's not a good defender, and he's not THAT good on offense. Not to mention the recent injuries.

Big risk for the Suns but certainly some upside with that trio as well.
 

Euclis20

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A lot of anti Brad Beal propaganda in this thread, I’m just noting it now, I like the player.
Yeah as bad as his contract is (and as shallow as their rotation is), Phoenix now has two legit top 15 guys and another all-star. There isn't another team that can make that claim.
 

Cellar-Door

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Beal is a pretty good but not elite player who gets paid like a top 10 player, he'll put up some nice numbers in PHX then they'll lose in the 2nd round.
 

ElUno20

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Beal is a pretty good but not elite player who gets paid like a top 10 player, he'll put up some nice numbers in PHX then they'll lose in the 2nd round.
I like your insight and would love to subscribe to your email newsletter.
 

lovegtm

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So the worst of it comes in 2 years, so I would assume their plan is to just sell out on the next 3 years, then let KD walk, Ayton too if not traded. Basically planning to try and win in the first 2-3 years then either be very bad, or trade Booker to hard reset.

problem is.... I think this trio is a pretty bad fit, so winning a title seems unlikely
Isn't "be very bad" a much less appealing option when other teams own all your picks/swaps for the next 7 years? I guess they can pull a 2023 Nets and reset to another team's picks by trading Booker, but that still leaves a horrible window of tanking+no good picks.
 

HomeRunBaker

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A lot of anti Brad Beal propaganda in this thread, I’m just noting it now, I like the player.
It's like jumping the shark level comedy. Guy has been a Top-30 player and hasn't yet had his 30th birthday, was run out there on one leg last year and one arm the prior so is "declining" after starting this year playing as well as ever coming off wrist surgery. Gets acquired for Landry Shamet and Paul's corpse...and people are worried about what will happen in 3 years lol. Waiting for someone to call him "selfish" to confirm that they've never seen a Wizards game.
 
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Royal Reader

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Isn't "be very bad" a much less appealing option when other teams own all your picks/swaps for the next 7 years? I guess they can pull a 2023 Nets and reset to another team's picks by trading Booker, but that still leaves a horrible window of tanking+no good picks.
Clear the decks for one season, try to sell Book on putting up with it a la Kobe, get under the cap and try to add his new sidekick via FA?
 

benhogan

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It's like jumping the shark level comedy. Guy has been a Top-30 player and hasn't yet had his 30th birthday, was run out there on one leg last year and one arm the prior so is "declining" after starting this year playing as well as ever coming off wrist surgery. Gets acquired for Landry Shamet and Paul's corpse...and people are worried about what will happen in 3 years lol. Waiting for someone to call him "selfish" to confirm that they've never seen a Wizards game.
I liked Beal in Miami, less so with PHX. Not a great fit. Hollinger does a decent job summing it up below

They better win now or the NBA will have to eventually create the Ishbia/ARod Rule (that will replace the Stepien Rule) to save the owners from themselves.



https://theathletic.com/4621136/2023/06/19/bradley-beal-trade-hollinger/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=7070525

From the Athletic (a worthwhile subscription)

He is still a good player, but he is paid like a great one. Between blah defense, injuries and his weirdly disappearing 3-ball, it is a real stretch to rank Beal among the league’s 25 best players. That contract, however, pays him like a superstar until he’s 33, with a $57 million gulp in 2026-27. That’s going to be a difficult number to ever deal if things don’t go well.

All of that discussion views the Beal trade in a vacuum. But of course, the Suns do not play in a vacuum. (Though it may seem like it at the rate their future draft picks are disappearing.) Beal, instead, now plays on the same team as Devin Booker … who might be the single most similar player to Beal in the entire league, except Booker is younger and slightly better at pretty much everything.

Inevitably, the presence of Booker (not to mention Durant) will push Beal into something he hasn’t been in a long time, a mostly off-ball spacer who may be looking at a Chris Bosh-to-Miami type decline in his touches. There is only one basketball; the math won’t allow for anything else.

The upside hope is that Beal’s shot profile becomes dramatically more 3-heavy, and more accurate, in Phoenix. It’s not a pipe dream, not when Beal was so reliant on self-created shots in Washington and had much higher 3-point percentages when he had prime John Wall as a set-up man. But it’s not a given, either, and the Suns certainly didn’t address a weakness here.

The Suns will trot out lineups with both Beal and Booker starting, naturally, but that either forces Booker to be a full-time point guard or one of those two to be a full-time wing stopper. LOL on the second one, so look for the Suns to bring back Torrey Craig or look for cheap wing defenders elsewhere to fortify the rotation.

This takes us to the other big-picture takeaway from the Beal trade. Phoenix used perhaps its last realistic trade chip to take a step back defensively and add another offensive player … a perfectly natural reaction to losing a second-round playoff series where the other team averaged 1.22 points per possession and its best player scored 34.5 points per game on 59 percent shooting.

One of the columns I never quite got around to pushing out during the NBA Finals was how, at some level, it was difficult to imitate the Nuggets’ model of success given how idiosyncratic a player Nikola Jokić is. However, the one thing I thought teams would surely copy was the Nuggets’ model of arming themselves with a slew of big wing defenders and essentially taking away opponents’ ability to hunt mismatches along the perimeter.
Especially for a team like Phoenix, which lacked an elite rim protector or pick-and-roll switch specialist, this seemed like the surest way to guarantee decent-to-good defensive outcomes.

Well, the Suns started out with that model and then burned it to the ground to get Durant and Beal. While they didn’t lose any wing defenders in this trade, they lost their ability to add any, which seems just as bad given how asset-starved they are. You wonder if trading Paul for two half-decent wings making $15 million each would have ended up with a better final product for the Suns. (The Suns did at least salvage some cheap production by getting Goodwin in the trade, a rotation-caliber player on a minimum contract.)

There still is a chance for Phoenix to salvage its cap sheet by making a similar one-for-two type move with center Deandre Ayton. However, the odds of that seem slim unless he has a breakout year, as the league doesn’t place a huge value on centers in general and in particular on centers making $30 million a year. It’s hard to see that changing with this trade likely to result in Ayton touching the ball, what, four times a game?

In perhaps the ultimate irony, a Suns team that for years suffered under one of the league’s cheapest owners will now be penalized for the profligacy of the new one. In the absence of a dramatic Ayton transaction this offseason, the Suns are looking at being into the second tax apron for at least the next three years, resulting in a “jailed” future draft pick situation and virtually no flexibility to add players beyond minimum contracts.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Here my thing @benhogan. Whether you view Beal as Top-100 good or Top-30 good....they got him for Shamet and 2023 Paul. His past two injuries that caused him to miss time (Covid twice, wrist, hammy) aren't long-term issues.....his chance of injury next year is no greater than your average 30-yr old player. People are talking about him like this is TimeLord waiting to break down when he's always been fairly durable despite high usage.

Is it a perfect match or even good fit? Probably not. I'll reiterate....they added a Top 30-100 player, depending on your view, for Landry Shamet and 2023 Chris Paul. They probably won't win a title...only one does per season, does that mean they shouldn't try to add talent to Durant and Booker? If they didn't make the move for Beal they would us their "flexibility" to add who, a Royce O'Neal-type? Cody Zeller?
 

PedroKsBambino

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It’s clearly an upgrade and at a low talent cost (though a fairly high cap/flexibility one).

As to fit, do we think they would have beat Denver with Beal? Not sure I think so. And that’s the on-court question: is there enough depth and defense and scheme versatility here? There surely IS enough scoring punch
 

lovegtm

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Here my thing @benhogan. Whether you view Beal as Top-100 good or Top-30 good....they got him for Shamet and 2023 Paul. His past two injuries that caused him to miss time (Covid twice, wrist, hammy) aren't long-term issues.....his chance of injury next year is no greater than your average 30-yr old player. People are talking about him like this is TimeLord waiting to break down when he's always been fairly durable despite high usage.

Is it a perfect match or even good fit? Probably not. I'll reiterate....they added a Top 30-100 player, depending on your view, for Landry Shamet and 2023 Chris Paul. They probably won't win a title...only one does per season, does that mean they shouldn't try to add talent to Durant and Booker? If they didn't make the move for Beal they would us their "flexibility" to add who, a Royce O'Neal-type? Cody Zeller?
Exactly. They were able to take advantage of the No Trade clause to add him for nothing, asset-wise. When you're a capped-out team with no assets......that's pretty fucking good!

Now they can try and split Ayton into multiple pieces, or see whether they can find an extra wing or two on the minimum heap.

Wrt the supertax stuff: they can always deal Durant into space in 2-3 years, if necessary. He'll probably still be a somewhat significantly positive asset then. You can use an asset acquired in such a deal to dump the last year of Beal, and roll from there.
 

benhogan

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Here my thing @benhogan. Whether you view Beal as Top-100 good or Top-30 good....they got him for Shamet and 2023 Paul. His past two injuries that caused him to miss time (Covid twice, wrist, hammy) aren't long-term issues.....his chance of injury next year is no greater than your average 30-yr old player. People are talking about him like this is TimeLord waiting to break down when he's always been fairly durable despite high usage.

Is it a perfect match or even good fit? Probably not. I'll reiterate....they added a Top 30-100 player, depending on your view, for Landry Shamet and 2023 Chris Paul. They probably won't win a title...only one does per season, does that mean they shouldn't try to add talent to Durant and Booker? If they didn't make the move for Beal they would us their "flexibility" to add who, a Royce O'Neal-type? Cody Zeller?
100% agree with you. I'd expect Beal to be better in PHX than in DC. PHX jumped to 3rd in Vegas, so they got better. I really liked the Miami fit but the NO TRADE was an absolute killer (Celtics should never put that in any contract unless Tatum wants it)

We still haven't seen what the SUNS are doing with Ayton, but I'm not sure who would want that contract?

In light of the new CBA, trades/contracts/future draft picks have to be valued differently. Attaining expensive Top50 players will be a lot easier, so I get the Beal sarcasm around here.

NBA teams that can develop #6-15 complimentary players on the cheap will thrive. Teams/Owners should be paying up for Coaching/Development/Front Office and invest in their G-League affiliate.

also agree with Lovegtm above
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Is it a perfect match or even good fit? Probably not. I'll reiterate....they added a Top 30-100 player, depending on your view, for Landry Shamet and 2023 Chris Paul. They probably won't win a title...only one does per season, does that mean they shouldn't try to add talent to Durant and Booker? If they didn't make the move for Beal they would us their "flexibility" to add who, a Royce O'Neal-type? Cody Zeller?
I like Beal and have seen him play but here's the thing. PHO needed to upgrade and while they did, they took the one step that (from everything I've heard) as soon as the new CBA hits basically prevents them from upgrading even more.

The one explanation that might make sense is if the owner knows that the NBA is going to delay implementation of the new CBA for a year or they have something on the table for Ayton.

The new CBA is designed to punish second apron teams. Even if the tax is "just money" and even if the any owner doesn't care what happens to a draft pick 7 years out, it puts strict limitations on roster building for these teams - no taxpayer's MLE; no aggregating contracts in trades; no signing guys on the buyout market. Is Beal worth that? I think most everyone would say probably not but to me, it's quite a gamble.
 

Devizier

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Whether this is a good deal or not might depend on how non-competitive teams handle role players on large-ish contracts. The kind of guys who traditionally got bought out or traded for pennies to a contender. My general assumption is you’re going to see less movement in that tier these days, which could make it hard for the Suns to build depth around their big three. But we will see. Seems a near certainty that Ayton is gone. Wonder if Ainge swoops in with an offer.
 

benhogan

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Whether this is a good deal or not might depend on how non-competitive teams handle role players on large-ish contracts. The kind of guys who traditionally got bought out or traded for pennies to a contender. My general assumption is you’re going to see less movement in that tier these days, which could make it hard for the Suns to build depth around their big three. But we will see. Seems a near certainty that Ayton is gone. Wonder if Ainge swoops in with an offer.
Jordan Clarkson would fit in with the Sun's archetype.

Then PHX can dominate when the NBA goes to 2 basketballs in play at once...

Wouldn't expect Danny to bail PHX out since Walker Kessler holds down that position at a 92% discount to the Ayton contract
 

Devizier

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Wouldn't expect Danny to bail PHX out since Walker Kessler holds down that position at a 92% discount to the Ayton contract
If the price is cheap enough, like Sexton and some expirings, might make a big rotation across two positions somewhat appealing. To me it feels like a classic rehab an asset, flip for more type move that rebuilding-ish teams tend to do well with.
 

JM3

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It's not my money & it's a lot of fun. Having at least 2 of Book/KD/Beal on the court at all times is going to be rough on defenses. The fit & cost are obviously problematic, but they aren't getting a fraction of that talent for those assets any other way.

Now they just need to trade Ayton for Ben Simmons.
 

ManicCompression

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Ayton has a no-trade clause until July 18 I believe (if I'm reading his contract language correctly - one year from signing). It'll be interesting to see how that pans out since that's almost 3 weeks after the start of NBA FA.
 

the moops

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Ayton has a no-trade clause until July 18 I believe (if I'm reading his contract language correctly - one year from signing). It'll be interesting to see how that pans out since that's almost 3 weeks after the start of NBA FA.
He does, but he doesn't seem like a guy that wants anything to do with Phoenix, so I am sure he would waive that for most destinations (he can't be traded to IND until after July 18 though)
 

HomeRunBaker

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I like Beal and have seen him play but here's the thing. PHO needed to upgrade and while they did, they took the one step that (from everything I've heard) as soon as the new CBA hits basically prevents them from upgrading even more.
Sure but as you know you win in this league with top end talent. There would never be another opportunity in the narrow Durant window to add a player remotely close to Beal's talent level....even if you rate him outside of Top-30 or 40. Paul had no value to you're talking Shamet and draft swaps....I'd argue that you aren't getting more than would you could even with Beal. You're talking tomayto tomahto when it comes to these role players who rely on fit more than their talent.
 

Cellar-Door

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If Beal were the exact same level of player but was a 6`10 PF who played solid D and buried C&S 3s people likely feel a lot better about it. You need role players and stars, but stars that fit is key
 

Kliq

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This seems to be the wrong lesson from the Nuggets winning the title, which is to sacrifice having good role players in order to go all in on stars. And I think maybe like, 10 years ago you could win with a few elite players and a bunch of veteran buyout guys and ring chasers--but today I think your role players need to be better. They need to be Aaron Gordon, MPJ, KCP and Bruce Brown--or if you are Golden State last year, they need to be (good) Jordan Poole, Andrew Wiggins and Kevon Looney.

Phoenix's problem is depth and defense, and this seems to not solve that problem while hurting flexibility in terms of adding those key supporting players. Flipping Ayton for stuff probably doesn't really help, since Ayton is one of those players you actually need to have and IDK if you can get anything better back.
 

the moops

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And Denver's run doesn't happen without their role players being great defenders, passers and shooters. We've seen enough of these top end talent collections fall apart because there weren't enough good players around them.
We have seen far more teams with role players fall apart than we have top end talent teams fall apart. There is only one champion a year, and there are different ways to become a champion. I wouldn't write off the 3 player suprestar team quite yet
 

Deathofthebambino

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Between Booker, Durant and Beal, I'm fully expecting a 3 man crash at the top of the key as they all try to shoot a mid range jumper at the same time.

I thought Phoenix' most glaring issue last year was depth, and well, I'm not sure how this makes them deeper, and given the money involved, I'm not sure how they can get deeper from here.
 

BaseballJones

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If the big 3 of Phoenix just is willing to cooperate, that could be an incredibly effective group. They don't all need to be THE MAN. I mean, maybe they DO, and if that's the case, they'll fail. But if they are willing to just be like, look, whoever has the hot hand tonight, we're gonna ride, and not let egos get in the way, they could be awesome.
 

RG33

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This gives PHX 3 elite players, with two being somewhat redundant. While Paul / Shamet / 2nd round picks screams “what a deal!”, the context of the “no-trade” and the Wiz ridding themselves of $200M in payroll in what is becoming an even more restrictive salary cap makes it a pretty good deal for them as well — ridding that contract for a guy that is not a centerpiece to winning you a championship is unwinding a large mistake, IMO.

PHX will be formidable if all 3 of these guys can stay healthy AND they can find some legit depth bodies through the draft or from whatever FA or trade options they have (I believe they lose even the MLE options now, correct?). It feels like a really large risk to be taking on Beal, despite how well he can score in the NBA.
 

Cellar-Door

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I do like the deal more if PHX just keeps asking for more and more potential cheap role players
 

benhogan

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If the price is cheap enough, like Sexton and some expirings, might make a big rotation across two positions somewhat appealing. To me it feels like a classic rehab an asset, flip for more type move that rebuilding-ish teams tend to do well with.
Sexton & Clarkson for Ayton would be perfect. PHX rolling out 4 guards & Durant has me jazzed... ;)

In all seriousness, I have to think Danny would be looking to add picks if he takes on a MAX contract, Ayton is a questionable asset in this new CBA world.

The Pacers had Ayton interest last Summer, but re-signed Myles and have lived through their own 2-BIG hell for multiple seasons before.
 

lars10

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Miami didn't beat Boston with top end talent. They beat Boston with a bunch of role players.
How many things had to go right for Miami for that to happen though.. when was the last time a team made that kind of run with over performing talent.. and at the end of the day they still lost in 5.
 

Auger34

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Miami didn't beat Boston with top end talent. They beat Boston with a bunch of role players.
100% true but that is also really hard to plan to do and probably even harder to replicate. I think that the Heat run was the ultimate catching lightning in a bottle run
 

nighthob

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Miami didn't beat Boston with top end talent. They beat Boston with a bunch of role players.
It's tough to replicate success when the basis of your plan is "All our mediocre shooters are going to get hot at the same time in the playoffs".
 

radsoxfan

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Either way it's a cheap roster spot fill with more upside than your average vet min.
I read somewhere Todd's contract is cheaper than a vet min deal so it saves both Washington and the Suns some money if he's on the end of the bench for the Suns?

Who knows, it's unlikely to matter much either way, but I doubt he's considered by either team to be much of a prospect.
 

JakeRae

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If Beal were the exact same level of player but was a 6`10 PF who played solid D and buried C&S 3s people likely feel a lot better about it. You need role players and stars, but stars that fit is key
The player you describe doesn’t really exist. Maybe Jaren Jackson Jr. I’m not sure anyone would be very excited about him if he were getting paid a Supermax either. That’s the real problem. Beal isn’t a superstar. He’s probably not really even a star at this point. Maybe back in a supporting role he can go back to being a top 30-40 player, and that could be enough with Durant and Booker if they can work together and stay on the court. But the alternative is he’s Buddy Hield or Malcolm Brogdon getting paid $50+ million a year.
 

brendan f

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It's not clear that Beal is an upgrade over a 38 year-old Paul, let alone a cornerstone for a championship. Even Paul at his age is a better defender than Beal, and this is a team that desperately needs more defense, not less. Beal was a borderline elite offensive player a few years ago. if he can get back to that, this has some chance of working, but if he's merely the good offensive player he's been the last couple of years, this could go very badly.

Ayton is sort of a disaster contract at this point. He's not very good offensively or defensively. As Benhogan said, who would even want him?
 

ElUno20

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The more i think of this trade, the more "meh" i feel about it. I'm beyond done buying into the Durant aura/bullshit. He never gets it done and he's always injured. Kinda the same for booker who gets tauted as a massive talent but has been dogshit time and time again when his back is against the wall.
 

Cellar-Door

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It's not clear that Beal is an upgrade over a 38 year-old Paul, let alone a cornerstone for a championship. Even Paul at his age is a better defender than Beal, and this is a team that desperately needs more defense, not less. Beal was a borderline elite offensive player a few years ago. if he can get back to that, this has some chance of working, but if he's merely the good offensive player he's been the last couple of years, this could go very badly.

Ayton is sort of a disaster contract at this point. He's not very good offensively or defensively. As Benhogan said, who would even want him?
Ayton is a definite positive defensively, he's good. His offense has shown real decline, hard to tell how much of that is role, but he's a FT and in player, shoots under 30% from 3, and that team has consistently gotten fewer good volume 3pt shooters over his time there.

Ayton is overpaid... but some team should take a chance on him for cheap, surround him with shooters and you might have something.
 

NomarsFool

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What I don't quite understand, a bit, is that - in my opinion - Beal's contract is a real albatross, but it's not really an albatross for the Wizards, is it? I mean, every team has to pay someone, and it's not like they have a bunch of other stars that need to get paid. So, getting rid of Beal (I mean he's in the first year of his recent 5 year contract) doesn't seem that valuable to Washington.

On the flip side, with the new CBA, having a 3rd player with a huge contract seems like a significant problem. So, adding Beal to Phoenix seems like a real problem for them. So, in that regard, I can see why they didn't give up a lot for him. I'm a bit puzzled why there wasn't a deal out there that would have returned more value to Washington. To put it another way, the marginal value of Beal to a team with 2 stars is less than the marginal value to a team with 1 or 0 stars, and the tax implications of Beal on a team with 2 stars is much worse than on a team with 1 or 0 stars. So, it just seems like kind of a bad trade for both teams involved.
 

mcpickl

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I read somewhere Todd's contract is cheaper than a vet min deal so it saves both Washington and the Suns some money if he's on the end of the bench for the Suns?

Who knows, it's unlikely to matter much either way, but I doubt he's considered by either team to be much of a prospect.
He's 150K less than if they signed a veteran with at least 3 years experience, but more than if they just signed a rookie to that spot.

I'd be surprised if he ever suits up for Phoenix. I don't think they're looking to develop a still raw guy there, and I doubt while the new owner looks to be fire hosing money everywhere that they saw him as a small savings over a vet. While still young obviously, he's been terrible in Washington. He was only able to get a total of 135 minutes over two seasons on a trash team that actually was invested in him, and more than half of that was in 3 final games over the past two seasons as a tank weapon. He wasn't even good in the G League where any live body looks good.

Looks like Washington salary dumping him on Phoenix to me. When you have a chance to dump a guy you think can't play, no matter how small the salary, you do it.

For example, the Celtics waived and stretched Demetrius Jackson 7 years ago, and he still cost Wyc around a half million bucks this season.
 

brendan f

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Ayton is a definite positive defensively, he's good. His offense has shown real decline, hard to tell how much of that is role, but he's a FT and in player, shoots under 30% from 3, and that team has consistently gotten fewer good volume 3pt shooters over his time there.
Yeah, you have a point about his defense. It was pretty bad last year but overall he's been decidedly good. The problem is the defense has declined every year since 20/21 (per RAPTOR), his block rate has declined every year since 19/20 (per Cleaning the Glass), and he has limitations in switching, so I'm just not sure what a team trading for him would think they are getting in terms of upside/potential as a building block.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Ayton’s defense is potentially solid, maybe even plus, but his effort and scheme versatility (in practice—not in theory where he’s quite flexible) are both shaky. So more than the average player you really have to define the situation before you can even say with him, imo.

If Phoenix is hoping he’ll pull a Bosh and become a defense and rebounding focused guy based on team need I suspect they’ll be quite disappointed. But he could be pretty solid defensively if he likes his touches and role too…he’s far from a hopeless defender