It's pretty simple: it's called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Greatest Players. And there's a reason for that.
JohntheBaptist said:
Is it the Hall's function to be a method for measuring a player's worth? It's a Hall of Fame, strictly speaking, where this is concerned, should we be worried about whether it's "fair" that Larkin didn't have the opportunity? It's an historical record, I think.
NatetheGreat said:The difference is, you seem to think that's a flaw. Myself, I really don't give a fuck about "fairness" to players with bad luck, nor about "factoring out" good situations or good luck. I am very happy with saying that, skillsets being otherwise equal, the guy who played for a better team and won more because of it had a better career and should be rewarded for it.
You make a great point re: Clemens/ Rose/ Bonds, and I think they should be in there because the Hall seeks to be an historical record.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
The Hall is not an historical record, otherwise Rose and Clemens and Bonds would be in there. There has always been a strong popularity contest vibe to the Hall, beginning with the election of Rabbitt Maranville and going all the way through the present day.
It's a bit outdated now, but I would highly recommend Bill James' Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? (also published as The Politics of Glory) to get a fuller view of the way the Hall operates. It's definitely not a place for the historical record, or at least not primarily one.
mt8thsw9th said:What does retwopect mean, anyway?
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:"Dewek Jeetah, is who bwings us togetha, today."
tims4wins said:It's pretty simple: it's called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Greatest Players. And there's a reason for that.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
It's a bit outdated now, but I would highly recommend Bill James' Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? (also published as The Politics of Glory) to get a fuller view of the way the Hall operates. It's definitely not a place for the historical record, or at least not primarily one.
I doubt it, he's terrible behind a microphone.
I'm guessing you probably hear more stupid shit from Yankee fans in your daily life because you probably say more stupid shit to Yankee fans in your daily life. You rant and rave in pretty much every Jeter thread here. I bet you can't resist in person as well. If you changed allegiances, you'd fit in at nyyfans pretty well.I wasn't sure where to put this or if it really matters, but here are two things I was told today that are a microcosm of why this is infuriating to live through.
Yankee fan #1: (This is in response to KO's rant) And then there was the ultimate fuck you last night- Jeter proving once again why it's not all about where he sits on lists of all time WAR, OPS, or whatever but about how he shines when the spotlight is the brightest.
Yankee fan #2: Jeter didn't want to play SS this weekend at Fenway, but he decided he may because he knows that Sox fans want to see him play SS one last time.
I don't think I ever heard stuff like this about any athlete before ever. Not Jordan, Gretzky, Magic, Larry, Pedro, Emmitt, Marino, Elway, Montana- no one. I have no problem having a discussion about Jeter's accomplishments, of which there are obviously many. But when I have to listen to shit about shining in spotlights and doing Sox fans a favor by letting them see him play one last time, I give up.
jon abbey said:I thought he said pretty clearly last night after the game that he was done playing SS now, any appearances this weekend would be DH or PH (and it sounded like he wouldn't start tonight).
Be more fitting if they brought Vinatieri back to kick the game winning field goal, right?NatetheGreat said:
Honestly I do think Brady is going to get a shitload of media love when he retires. Maybe not as much as Peyton will, which will undoubtedly rankle some, but I do think Tom will get a lot of glowing retrospective pieces from guys like Peter King, and his last game in Foxborough is going to be treated as a very big deal. If he ends that last game with a gamewinning touchdown, we'll certainly see a lot of gushing about storybook endings as well.
Just wait until FOX has Cap'n Jeets in the broadcast booth.Flunky said:how much of this spills over into the playoffs do you think?
my hope is none of it. I think there should be none of it. you think he'll join any of those dildos in the booth for a visit? doesn't seem like his style...
EvilEmpire said:I'm guessing you probably hear more stupid shit from Yankee fans in your daily life because you probably say more stupid shit to Yankee fans in your daily life. You rant and rave in pretty much every Jeter thread here. I bet you can't resist in person as well. If you changed allegiances, you'd fit in at nyyfans pretty well.
jon abbey said:https://twitter.com/FeinsandNYDN/status/515600232529162242
drleather2001 said:
Hoff, I'm not saying it's your fault, because I feel sorry for what happened to you. But, let's face facts: if you don't want to get treated that way, you shouldn't go arounddressed like thathaving rational discussions about Derek Jeter.
drleather2001 said:
Yep. Those New York fans, they just can't help themselves; it's in their nature to say stupid shit about Derek Jeter.
Hoff, I'm not saying it's your fault, because I feel sorry for what happened to you. But, let's face facts: if you don't want to get treated that way, you shouldn't go arounddressed like thathaving rational discussions about Derek Jeter.
Wingack said:The numbers are there in my opinion anyway for him to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. But should the FAME part of Jeter count for anything? I know it is probably an obnoxious question. I mean, he has been a terrific ambassador for the game (if a terrible interview), sold merchandise and put butts in seats. For the past 20 years, he has probably been the most valuable, marketable player that MLB had.
EvilEmpire said:Post-season play doesn't count when evaluating a player's HoF credentials? OK.
How is he an ambassador for the game?
JohntheBaptist said:
Wow.
drleather2001 said:
Ya, I wish I hadn't said it because I wasn't trying to be inflammatory, and I meant it to be tongue in cheek. But the logic is the same.
terrynever said:Jeter's Turn 2 Foundation has raised over $17M in grants for children in NY, NJ, Tampa and Michigan since 1996.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_2_Foundation
terrynever said:I searched the Internet and can't find a negative article on Turn 2. That bastard Jeter must be hiding something. The NY Daily News donated $22,000 to the fund on Tuesday and kissed his ass in its article. All the fund does is educate kids about drugs and prod them to do better in school. Jesus. What is wrong with that guy!
TomRicardo said:
Ok then Derek Jeter is not even close to David Ortiz.
To be fair their contributions on the field are probably about the same.
terrynever said:I searched the Internet and can't find a negative article on Turn 2. That bastard Jeter must be hiding something. The NY Daily News donated $22,000 to the fund on Tuesday and kissed his ass in its article. All the fund does is educate kids about drugs and prod them to do better in school. Jesus. What is wrong with that guy!