FIBA World Cup 2023
- Thread starter ifmanis5
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Lost on the glass 43-27. Lithuania started off on fire from 3.
Honestly if you get outrebounded double digits and the other team is hot from 3 it's hard to win.
The talent gap just isn't that big anymore.
Canada survived. Ballsy move by Canadian coach to sit Olynyk who was really struggling at both ends. Brooks and Dort were difference makers. If Murray plays in Paris they have a good chance. If Wiggins is willing to play his GS 3rd wheel role even better.
I've gone back and forth on Ingram a dozen times. On the one hand, his lousy defense has often cancelled out his very good offense. On the other hand, the best offensive player on a lottery team is almost a stone cold lock to be a lousy defender (and he's been to the playoffs just once in his 7 seasons), and habits are hard to break - just because he's dropped onto a team with a lot of talent doesn't mean he'll suddenly become a passable defender. I hope Zion figures it out because I would like to see Ingram in the playoffs more - his one experience (2022 against the Suns) was excellent.
Especially when we send the B team, which always seems to happen in FIBA. The 2020 (really 2021) US olympic team had just two players that were on the 2019 FIBA team, Middleton and Tatum (and Tatum was a completely different player with 2 more years of experience). The full national team can overcome hot shooting nights from decent opponents and can blow most countries off the court just by showing up, but that's not the case with this group and their combined 4 all-star games and 0 all-NBA appearances.
I would welcome someone putting together what their ideal set of 12-man rosters would be for our A, B etc teams, assuming everyone was available.
If you forced all US players to play, probably. If we recognize that a large % of top US players are either too old or too injury prone to realistically play internationally, I think calling the FIBA group the B team is fair. The Athletic just finished up their preseason NBA tier list, and they've got 39 players in their top 3 tiers. The only members of the FIBA team on that list are Haliburton, Bridges, Brunson, JJJ and Edwards, all in tier 3. Here are the other US players in their top 3 tiers (I just eyeballed this list, hopefully accurate):
-Curry
-Durant
-Lebron
-Kawhi
-Butler
-Tatum
-Booker
-Davis
-Morant
-Lillard
-Harden
-George
-Bam
-Jaylen
-Mitchell
-Fox
-Young
-Kyrie
-Middleton
-Draymond
-Holiday
-Zion
-Beal
-Lamelo
That's a decent list (24 players so you could cobble together two entire teams probably better than the current FIBA roster), but again a ton of these guys are either too old or too injured to ever play international ball (again, in some cases). I think that would apply to Lamelo, Beal, Zion, Holiday, Draymond, Middleton, Kyrie, George, Harden, Lillard, Davis, Butler, Kawhi, Lebron, Durant and Curry. I'd be shocked if more than 2 of those guys end up playing in the olympics (maybe Lamelo and Durant, who seems to love this stuff). That just leaves Tatum, Booker, Morant, Bam, Jaylen, Mitchell, Fox and Young. Hell you could just throw Tatum/Booker/Bam on the current FIBA team and I think they'd roll over everyone.
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He was in training camp a couple years ago, but then left iirc. He seemed like an intriguing fit.
A
G Lillard
G Curry
F Tatum
F Lebron/Durant
C Davis
-----
G Fox or Lamelo
G Booker
F Mitchell
F Lebron/Durant
C Bam
Butler
Zion
I wouldn’t go that far but did want to mention that the USA did bring the A team of coaches. Kinda goes to show you what the true value of coaching is. Not as much as some would believe.
Bump for USA-Italy quarterfinal starting right now.
I brought two laptops to work today just so I can double screen this. If anyone needs a stream link let me know.
I brought two laptops to work today just so I can double screen this. If anyone needs a stream link let me know.
Thanks for the reminder, I thought it started an hour later. ESPN2 for those who can watch there
End of 1st quarter. USA 24 Italy 14.
3-point shooting: USA 4/9, Italy 2/7
Rebounds USA 16 Italy 8
Biiiiiit different than the Lithuania game.
I keep on being struck by how much this would be a Grant Williams game. Requirements here: stout perimeter defense, 3-point shooting, ball security. The Brunson / Halliburton-led offense moves a lot faster than Grant could keep up with, though.
3-point shooting: USA 4/9, Italy 2/7
Rebounds USA 16 Italy 8
Biiiiiit different than the Lithuania game.
I keep on being struck by how much this would be a Grant Williams game. Requirements here: stout perimeter defense, 3-point shooting, ball security. The Brunson / Halliburton-led offense moves a lot faster than Grant could keep up with, though.
31-18 after an and-1 for Bridges(?) on a fast break.
I'm not sure we've failed to score yet with dribble penetration followed by a layoff to a secondary crasher. Like that's at least half of our scoring, maybe more. They double the dribbler and abandon (or can't keep up with) the crasher from the outside, who gets the easy layoff and gets a dunk or layup. edit: and another of these for Banchero. They have no answer if they have to play tight man defense.
Italy, meanwhile, keeps bricking contested 3s (one of which was blocked a minute ago by... Jackson?! they didn't credit it but he got a piece and it fell 10 feet from the basket). They're now 2-for-15, at least partly due to USA always successfully contesting them. USA is 4-for-13, not exactly raining 3s, but if Italy doesn't have a Lithuania-like streak in them, this is going to be Joever very quickly.
I'm not sure we've failed to score yet with dribble penetration followed by a layoff to a secondary crasher. Like that's at least half of our scoring, maybe more. They double the dribbler and abandon (or can't keep up with) the crasher from the outside, who gets the easy layoff and gets a dunk or layup. edit: and another of these for Banchero. They have no answer if they have to play tight man defense.
Italy, meanwhile, keeps bricking contested 3s (one of which was blocked a minute ago by... Jackson?! they didn't credit it but he got a piece and it fell 10 feet from the basket). They're now 2-for-15, at least partly due to USA always successfully contesting them. USA is 4-for-13, not exactly raining 3s, but if Italy doesn't have a Lithuania-like streak in them, this is going to be Joever very quickly.
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Halftime. USA 46 Italy 24. They're not powerless, they have some real pro ballers out there who have moves and shots, but we're kicking their ass in just about every way. Our team looks like the "more than the sum of its parts" that typifies Steve Kerr teams, particularly in that we keep on very cleverly forcing mistakes or bad-percentage plays out of them, and other than one turnover we've made where they doubled and got a steal, we just haven't made mistakes. We've had a good number of fast-break plays, but I can only recall one broken-play situation where they got an easy bucket. We look like a smart team, finding mismatches and creating open 3-point shots and easy buckets.
3-point shooting: USA 7/19 (37%), Italy 2/19 (11%). There's no team in the world, save maybe Spain, who could take a -15 on 3-pointers against us and still have a chance. And Spain's dead, baby, Spain's dead.
Rebounds: 28-20 USA (offensive: USA 7 Italy 8). AKA "they're bricking a lot more shots". This being our biggest weakness in the tournament-to-date, it's nice to see us competing hard on the boards.
FTs: USA 5/6, Italy 4/6. They're not calling soft contact, only blatant shooting fouls that have to be called. Total of 9 fouls called on USA, 7 on Italy. It's made the game really fun to watch.
We've already seen this team against Germany twice, so I'd be more worried if Latvia wins tomorrow. But Lithuania got absolutely demolished this morning by Serbia, by like 20 points. Bogdanovic apparently shot the lights out, 9/13 from the field. It's gonna be a shame if we play them for the title and they lose for want of a Nikola Jokic. I won't complain, but I'd love to see what that would look like.
edit: it's worth noting that Italy edged Serbia 78-76 in the second round, so even if Serbia looks like a strong contender, they've had their tough moments just like we have. The only undefeated teams going into the QFs were Lithuania and Germany; Lithuania has already lost and Germany could easily lose to Latvia.
3-point shooting: USA 7/19 (37%), Italy 2/19 (11%). There's no team in the world, save maybe Spain, who could take a -15 on 3-pointers against us and still have a chance. And Spain's dead, baby, Spain's dead.
Rebounds: 28-20 USA (offensive: USA 7 Italy 8). AKA "they're bricking a lot more shots". This being our biggest weakness in the tournament-to-date, it's nice to see us competing hard on the boards.
FTs: USA 5/6, Italy 4/6. They're not calling soft contact, only blatant shooting fouls that have to be called. Total of 9 fouls called on USA, 7 on Italy. It's made the game really fun to watch.
We've already seen this team against Germany twice, so I'd be more worried if Latvia wins tomorrow. But Lithuania got absolutely demolished this morning by Serbia, by like 20 points. Bogdanovic apparently shot the lights out, 9/13 from the field. It's gonna be a shame if we play them for the title and they lose for want of a Nikola Jokic. I won't complain, but I'd love to see what that would look like.
edit: it's worth noting that Italy edged Serbia 78-76 in the second round, so even if Serbia looks like a strong contender, they've had their tough moments just like we have. The only undefeated teams going into the QFs were Lithuania and Germany; Lithuania has already lost and Germany could easily lose to Latvia.
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Italy finally did it, they cut off a dribble penetration layoff to a secondary cutter. That cutter (I think Bridges) turned around and saw that to do so, Italy left Josh Hart open in the corner, found him and Hart drained it. 52-26, we'd doubled them up. We're up to 11-for-23 from 3, 48%. edit: 60-31 after a steal at the top of the key by Bridges and a 2-shot foul on the ensuing fast break. Player-of-the-match performance by Bridges, not by a lot, he hasn't stolen the show, but absolutely been strong everywhere.
edit2: Italy made a 3-point shot! <Jeb!> Please clap. </Jeb!>. Fontecchio has 16 of Italy's 36 points, 2/7 from 3, 4/4 from the line, he's the only one who looks like he belongs on the court against us. *looks it up* oh yeah, he's also their only NBA player. Funny how easy that is to see.
edit2: Italy made a 3-point shot! <Jeb!> Please clap. </Jeb!>. Fontecchio has 16 of Italy's 36 points, 2/7 from 3, 4/4 from the line, he's the only one who looks like he belongs on the court against us. *looks it up* oh yeah, he's also their only NBA player. Funny how easy that is to see.
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73-36 after another fast-break leading to a layup for the US. It's pretty obviously Joever out there for Italy. I'm not turning it off, but I'm turning off the sound and gonna try to get a little work done. I hope they limit the minutes of our starters for the rest of the game. Get Banchero and Haliburton out of there, more Kessler. We also have an extra day of rest before our SF game, which isn't till Friday morning.
edit: Brandon Ingram just got called for an unsportsmanlike foul (flagrant) after a review, and he's laughing about it. I think these guys are feeling pretty good.
edit: Brandon Ingram just got called for an unsportsmanlike foul (flagrant) after a review, and he's laughing about it. I think these guys are feeling pretty good.
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73-36 with 3:43 left in the 3rd. Doubling up that late is pretty good, no? Feels like a UConn women game
Biggest margins of victory in the 2023 FIBA World Cup:
+55, Canada 128 - Lebanon 73, Group H
+48, USA 110 - Jordan 62, Group C
+42, Serbia 105 - China 63, Group B
+41, Brazil 100 - Iran 59, Group G
+39, Latvia 109 - Lebanon 70, Group H
+37, USA 100 - Italy 63, Quarterfinals
+33, Serbia 112 - Dominican Republic 79, Second Round
+32, Serbia 115 - South Sudan 83, Group B
+30, Lithuania 96 - Mexico 66, Group D
+30, Spain 94 - Ivory Coast 64, Group G
+30, Canada 95 - France (!) 65, Group H
+29, Germany 100 - Slovenia (!) 71, Second Round
We could've won by 45 if we really wanted to. Kessler played most of the 4th Q.
+55, Canada 128 - Lebanon 73, Group H
+48, USA 110 - Jordan 62, Group C
+42, Serbia 105 - China 63, Group B
+41, Brazil 100 - Iran 59, Group G
+39, Latvia 109 - Lebanon 70, Group H
+37, USA 100 - Italy 63, Quarterfinals
+33, Serbia 112 - Dominican Republic 79, Second Round
+32, Serbia 115 - South Sudan 83, Group B
+30, Lithuania 96 - Mexico 66, Group D
+30, Spain 94 - Ivory Coast 64, Group G
+30, Canada 95 - France (!) 65, Group H
+29, Germany 100 - Slovenia (!) 71, Second Round
We could've won by 45 if we really wanted to. Kessler played most of the 4th Q.
When we're throwing guys like Bobby Portis out there... you would think it might be time for plan B?
Portis played 10.5 minutes and had 7 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, and was -1 in those minutes
Kessler played 6 minutes and had 3 points, 1 rebound, and was -10
Don't think plan B is an option
Windhorst's writeup on this morning's QF:
https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/38333352/takeaways-team-usa-fiba-world-cup-quarterfinals-win-italy
https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/38333352/takeaways-team-usa-fiba-world-cup-quarterfinals-win-italy
Haliburton seemed to bring a lot of energy to this game, loved the alley-oop pass.
But I'm still reiterating how much I hate that Banchero is playing for US (good for us) and not Italy. Double-f**ed Italy though (although wouldn't have mattered in teh result.
Would be better for the international game if he played for Italy.
What was the Italian coach complaining to Kerr about?
But I'm still reiterating how much I hate that Banchero is playing for US (good for us) and not Italy. Double-f**ed Italy though (although wouldn't have mattered in teh result.
Would be better for the international game if he played for Italy.
What was the Italian coach complaining to Kerr about?
Bertans pulls up with time running down and tries to win it with a long, contested 3-pointer. No go. Germany advances, despite a 4-for-26 effort from Schroder.
https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2023/game/0609/Germany-Latvia#tab=boxscore
It was a one- or two-possession game for the final minute, and there were no timeouts! Great flow. The NBA should take notes.
https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2023/game/0609/Germany-Latvia#tab=boxscore
It was a one- or two-possession game for the final minute, and there were no timeouts! Great flow. The NBA should take notes.
Slovenia/Canada on now. This should be a banger!! Probably my most anticipated game to watch of this tournament so far.
Do you get the ball at midcourt in FIBA if you call a timeout immediately after a defensive rebound? Latvia continued play after Schroder's final miss and had to settle for Bertans' shot. In that situation, a timeout would have been wiser, assuming it would have advanced the ball to midcourt.
To be clear, I understand the value and importance of strategically called timeouts, and I like to see the C's use them. But as a fan with no rooting interest in Germany or Latvia, I didn't mind one bit that the final minute of a close, gripping game basically played out in real time.
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The fall really is the best time to get ESPN+, but I just can't pull the trigger.
very close charge/block call on NAW on a Doncic drive. Your POV on that definitely depends on who you're rooting for there.
50-50 at half. Doncic is having a great game but their roster has no height so everything's a drive at the basket.
This is a really fun match to watch. I'm happy for whoever got to see Germany-Latvia earlier too.
This is a really fun match to watch. I'm happy for whoever got to see Germany-Latvia earlier too.
There's some sort of floating robot thing going on with the halftime show right now. I dunno how they roll in Manila but it's equal parts weird, cute and terrifying.
i'll say this: it's no NBA Baby Race.
i'll say this: it's no NBA Baby Race.
Canada on fire, 67-55 midway through 3rd. Dunno if it's CAN defense or SLO's offense disappearing.
CAN got it up to +14 (80-66), it's now 80-71 after an Olynyk airball to end the 3rd. Those first 3 minutes of this second half might be the whole game though. Doncic isn't quite on fire, but some sparks are flying. Canada should absolutely close this out but they will have to press real hard to keep the pillow on Slovenia's face.
The dude has never been to Italy. Nor has his father. His great great grandfather moved to Seattle from Italy. He should in no way be playing for Italy.