Ha, seriously. I would never give him or Robert a first pitch FB.Think he was sitting first pitch FB? 115 mph exit velocity lol
The Vlad/Ohtani MVP vote will be fascinating if this holds up.
If this holds up, it likely won't even be close. The real question is whether or not it can hold up.The Vlad/Ohtani MVP vote will be fascinating if this holds up.
Guerrero currently leads Ohtani in fWAR so 4.1 to 3.9 so it's pretty close.If this holds up, it likely won't even be close. The real question is whether or not it can hold up.
Yeah, Vlad has a very real shot at the Triple Crown and through almost half a season, is putting up better numbers than any Manny season. Ohtani, on the other hand, is OPS'ing almost 1.000 while providing significant pitching contributions. From a pure value standpoint, I think it should be Ohtani but hard to know how voters will land.Guerrero currently leads Ohtani in fWAR so 4.1 to 3.9 so it's pretty close.
Hmm. Does it matter why he's DHing? He's still only contributing to the team as a pitcher and a DH.People who know more about how WAR is calculated can enlighten me, but it feels like Ohtani is being undervalued at only 4.6 bWAR. I think he is being dinged for being a DH, but does that really reflect his true value given the only reason he is a DH is because he is also a starting pitcher, and that he would probably be a solid defensive outfielder if he wasn't a pitcher?
Isn't DH'ing weighted in WAR by the assumption that the player DH'ing is a bad fielder, so that they supply negative dWAR? Ohtani is a rare case of DH'ing not because he is a poor defender, but because he is too valuable to play RF. I don't know if it is fair to penalize him for being a DH (he is at -0.5 dWAR this season) the same way it was fair to penalize someone like Oritz.Hmm. Does it matter why he's DHing? He's still only contributing to the team as a pitcher and a DH.
Either way, hopefully he stops slacking in 2022 and starts playing the field.
Yeah, this is why - if he keeps it up - the contract negotiations for Ohtani (whether extension talks with the Angels or if he goes to FA) will be so interesting. Because theoretically if he can provide, say, 5 WAR as a batter and 1.5-2 WAR as a pitcher, teams should be paying him not only what they'd otherwise pay a 6.5-7 WAR player but also the additional amount that they'd have to pay an additional player to fill the second roster spot, which in Ohtani's case means whatever the team would otherwise be paying a mid-to-back rotation type of guy.the extra value Ohtani brings by having your DH and SP1 combined only occupy a single roster spot, which isn't captured in WAR
True, though if I'm a team and his agent proposes that, I'm also going to counter with the increased injury risk being taken on by playing both positions as a mitigating element. Probably not enough to fully offset that value, but it's going to be a chunk, unless he manages to stay pretty healthy from here on out.Yeah, this is why - if he keeps it up - the contract negotiations for Ohtani (whether extension talks with the Angels or if he goes to FA) will be so interesting. Because theoretically if he can provide, say, 5 WAR as a batter and 1.5-2 WAR as a pitcher, teams should be paying him not only what they'd otherwise pay a 6.5-7 WAR player but also the additional amount that they'd have to pay an additional player to fill the second roster spot, which in Ohtani's case means whatever the team would otherwise be paying a mid-to-back rotation type of guy.
Well, I don't know that we've usually included the latter novelty in even say MVP voting (as opposed to something like HoF voting, which would include that kind of thing)Well, I think it's less that the assumption that the player is a bad fielder and more specifically that the DH is providing no defensive value, period, compared to other position players.
While the fWAR is close, I do think that people are underestimating a.) the extra value Ohtani brings by having your DH and SP1 combined only occupy a single roster spot, which isn't captured in WAR, and also b.) the sheer novelty of what he is doing will sway voters, who like to vote for something new and exciting.
Even on the WAR side, looking at fWAR tells one story, but bWAR has Ohtani solidly ahead 4.6 to Vladito's 3.8
The value is whatever you happen to do with the extra roster slot. It could allow you to carry a rule 5 guy who will turn into something great in the future, or it could be Danny Santana. There's no way to just stick a number on it, no matter how much WAR fanatics have made it seem like everything in baseball can be boiled down to one number. But on average, the value of the 26th (or a theoretical 27th) player on a roster is not high.Well, I don't know that we've usually included the latter novelty in even say MVP voting (as opposed to something like HoF voting, which would include that kind of thing)
I agree though; I was trying to look up the former this morning, and I couldn't find anything quickly - has anyone actually tried to calculate the value of having an additional roster slot? I kind of assume someone would've tried to estimate it at one point to properly value say a utility guy that can cover 6 positions, but I don't actually know what that value is
I think it's more complicated than that, unless I'm misunderstanding you. For instance, if you use the extra spot for an additional reliever, maybe that reliever's WAR is only 0.5, but it's hard to put a value on the pressure that that additional reliever takes off of the rest of your bullpen.The value is whatever you happen to do with the extra roster slot. It could allow you to carry a rule 5 guy who will turn into something great in the future, or it could be Danny Santana. There's no way to just stick a number on it, no matter how much WAR fanatics have made it seem like everything in baseball can be boiled down to one number. But on average, the value of the 26th (or a theoretical 27th) player on a roster is not high.
I guess, but the last guy in the bullpen doesn't get into many games anyway. Having an additional arm even worse than that doesn't strike me as super valuable. Maybe a modern day Herb Washington would be helpful in ways that are hard to put a fixed number on.I think it's more complicated than that, unless I'm misunderstanding you. For instance, if you use the extra spot for an additional reliever, maybe that reliever's WAR is only 0.5, but it's hard to put a value on the pressure that that additional reliever takes off of the rest of your bullpen.
Yup. And while he fell off a cliff quickly, they also signed one of the best hitters in the game in Pujols, and did less than nothing with him. Orange County is just a wasteland.It’s just astonishing to me that the Angels are somehow now wasting a SECOND generational/historic/all-time talent. I hope they can get it together one of these seasons.
At the same time...I know there have been injuries to Trout and Ohtani but, man, blowing this window is like an NFL team getting an All Pro QB in Round 5 or 6 and blowing their rookie deal window. Ohtani is dirt cheap right now.It’s just astonishing to me that the Angels are somehow now wasting a SECOND generational/historic/all-time talent. I hope they can get it together one of these seasons.
Earlier today I stumbled into the box score of this game as well - and it looked kind of "unfair" to the Angels.SF Giants used the DH last night at the Angels
the Angels did not use the DH and their pitcher batted second.
per ESPN that has never happened before
Yes, that seems like the most fun solution.Ohtani should be able to DH for himself, playing two separate roles. Once he's taken out as a pitcher, he stays in as DH for the rest of the game.
If he's going to play like this against the Yankees, they should just trade him to the Twins.He's batting leadoff tonight, which I'm guessing is to maximize his number of plate appearances, but is not having a good first inning on the mound
All’s well that ends well. Chapman had a bad night too.Oof.
Holy shit lolAll’s well that ends well. Chapman had a bad night too.
And that resulted in a conga line of P’s hitting and PH’s getting used. Not optimal, usuallyHe's batting leadoff tonight, which I'm guessing is to maximize his number of plate appearances, but is not having a good first inning on the mound
View: https://twitter.com/SamBlum3/status/1413697827822211075He hit a ball about 9,000 feet tonight for #33. Off a lefty. This is bananas.
Yeah. Even Casey Kelly did half a season of each in the minors. Here's to seeing more in the future, hopefully.The craziest thing about Ohtani is that nobody has ever really tried this before. He keeps getting compared to Ruth, but Ruth was never a pitcher AND a hitter at his peak. He was an ace pitcher that hit well, but didn't hit much on his off-days. Ohtani is doing both, full-time. It's complete insanity. I think about Reds prospect Hunter Greene, who was a really tremendous hitter in high school and legitimately would have been a top prospect whether or he chose hitting or pitching. He chose pitching, and rarely hits now in the minors.