Top 15? And isn't Butler a SG? You listed 4 SF and Klay.
I dunno if I would give the nets 2017 for Butler but I'd trade whatever it took to get Paul George but maybe that's just me.
NBA trade season
- Thread starter Devizier
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I dunno if I would give the nets 2017 for Butler but I'd trade whatever it took to get Paul George but maybe that's just me.
Ainge was on with T&R today. Here is some of what he talked about in terms of the trade deadline.
“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East. It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan,” Ainge told 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Toucher & Rich during his weekly interview Thursday morning. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.”
Ainge said there has been plenty of interest in this year’s Brooklyn Nets pick, which has the best odds of being the top overall selection in June, but the team’s dearth of future picks and young assets makes the asking price go up whenever he’s dealing with other teams.
“Everyone knows the assets we have and the young players we have,” he said. “In any conversation we have the price is a lot because of what we have in the bank. That’s the challenge we’re facing and we’re trying to stick to our plan. If a deal comes along where the price to add someone to the team who is more long-term than someone who is just the last 25 games of the season, we have more interest in that than we do in finding a Band-Aid.”
While he admits the Celtics could use some help on the defensive glass, Ainge isn’t going to sacrifice their success in spacing the floor for a little more rebounding.
“We talked about this before the season started and our biggest weakness is defensive rebounding. Some games we get away with it and our guards get back in and get a lot of rebounds, but that’s been a team focus. But it’s also our greatest strength to play skilled players,” he said. “When we have Kelly Olynyk and Al Horford on the court, and the floor is spread for Isaiah and three-point shooters at our big positions, that’s why [Isaiah is] having such a great year and we’re scoring at such a high clip this season. You can’t just put a rebounder that can’t shoot out on the court because it might provide some help on the rebounding end, because it takes away from our strength on the offensive end.
“We know what our weaknesses are; we’d like rim protection and rebounding. At the same time we do like skilled bigs to play around our guards,” added Ainge.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/16/ainge-celtics-not-looking-for-rent-a-player-or-band-aid-trade/
“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East. It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan,” Ainge told 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Toucher & Rich during his weekly interview Thursday morning. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.”
Ainge said there has been plenty of interest in this year’s Brooklyn Nets pick, which has the best odds of being the top overall selection in June, but the team’s dearth of future picks and young assets makes the asking price go up whenever he’s dealing with other teams.
“Everyone knows the assets we have and the young players we have,” he said. “In any conversation we have the price is a lot because of what we have in the bank. That’s the challenge we’re facing and we’re trying to stick to our plan. If a deal comes along where the price to add someone to the team who is more long-term than someone who is just the last 25 games of the season, we have more interest in that than we do in finding a Band-Aid.”
While he admits the Celtics could use some help on the defensive glass, Ainge isn’t going to sacrifice their success in spacing the floor for a little more rebounding.
“We talked about this before the season started and our biggest weakness is defensive rebounding. Some games we get away with it and our guards get back in and get a lot of rebounds, but that’s been a team focus. But it’s also our greatest strength to play skilled players,” he said. “When we have Kelly Olynyk and Al Horford on the court, and the floor is spread for Isaiah and three-point shooters at our big positions, that’s why [Isaiah is] having such a great year and we’re scoring at such a high clip this season. You can’t just put a rebounder that can’t shoot out on the court because it might provide some help on the rebounding end, because it takes away from our strength on the offensive end.
“We know what our weaknesses are; we’d like rim protection and rebounding. At the same time we do like skilled bigs to play around our guards,” added Ainge.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/16/ainge-celtics-not-looking-for-rent-a-player-or-band-aid-trade/
He ranks 7th in win shares and win shares per 48, 12th in BPM, and 10th in VORP, to list the available basketball reference stats. The BPM list seems about right to me for guys that are better than him, maybe I'd nudge Draymond past him, so I'd tend to agree with you on him not being top 10. But, he's really close and arguably a top 10 guy.
But, that's performance this year. There are a bunch of guys who don't show up on those lists above him that I would rather have. Towns, Wall, Davis, Embiid are just a few names that come to mind. And, there aren't really any guys above except maybe Chris Paul who look to be approaching the end of their elite status. So, in terms of future value, Butler looks more like a top 20 guy than a top 10 guy to me. He's basically the same player as Gordon Hayward. Both are max guys I'd love to have, neither is the sort of guy I'd trade the Brooklyn picks for.
Well said. This is the first time Butler has ever been this good. And I agree there are players ranked below him that have typically (in the past) been better and may be better going forward. That is probably why none of them are available.
Well, if Butler came to the Celtics he'd be playing mostly SF unless both Bradley and Crowder (or Jaylen Brown) were included in the deal.
If you want to talk sgs we can also discuss Harden, McCollum, Wiggins, Booker and Beal, along with Klay Thompson, DeRozan and Hayward. You could also add Smart, although I'm sot sure what position he plays or even whether it matters. And most of the players I've listed are considerably younger than Butler.
This is silly. Harden is at a different level. Klay and Hayward are reasonably good comps. None of the other guys are as good as Butler is right now. Most of them aren't even close.
According to the work done by Nylon Calculus, you have about a 50% chance of drafting an All-Star with the no. 1 pick. That drops to about 30% with the no. 4 pick. The probability that a player the Celtics draft this year ends up being better than Butler is low and the chance that it happens within two years is almost nil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't hold onto the pick since not all drafts or players are created equal, but the certainty to which fans (and even GMs) think that draft picks turn into stars doesn't mesh with reality.
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I had to look it up because I was thinking that I have been wrong about the meaning of that word my whole life. Nope, the writer just misused it.
Maybe it's the first time Jimmy Butler has ever been "this" good, but he's been great the last 2 1/2 seasons. I'm not sure why Paul George is materially better than Jimmy Butler. Mostly I hear people say George would shoot 50/40/90 in a Stevens system but I'm not sure that's the case. He's currently enjoying his best shooting year at .448 and his 2nd best 3 point shooting year at .388. Out of all the trade targets named, the only one I'd move the pick for is DeMarcus Cousins. Although I would take George ahead of Butler on a team that has IT4.
Edit: This Celtic's team with Butler or George would be absolutely ridiculous at the free throw line though.
Dean Demakis is that you?
Actually stating the hyperbole in post #598 was one thing but continuing to double down on it is another. As stated by others, there is such a small, non zero percent chance that this actually happens that it isn't even worth discussing.
Well based on what Ainge said in the interview posted above, it sounds like he agrees with you about a Cousins type player being the guy for whom you empty out the piggy bsnk.
Unfortunately, nobody is trading those players so the Cs are kind of stuck. Yeah, the pick is nice in theory and the Balls and Fultzes look to be good. However, as posted upthread, it may take years to see them pan out. Meanwhile, excepting Smart and Brown, no one on the current roster may be in Boston if/when that happens.
Right. But if the Celtics do land the 1st pick in the draft, it could change the Kings stance on DeMarcus. They also have Zizic stashed who may answer a lot of the Celtics questions without requiring a trade.
From your post to Vlade's screen.
Frankly, while he would be rolling the dice on the pick, I think Divac has the most leverage now in terms of what he could get from Ainge. The Cs are poised for the playoffs and can clearly use some help up front with boards and rim protection. Furthermore, they too are uncertain what spot the BKNY pick gets you in the draft. As such, Ainge may be willing to pay more for Cousins given the pick spot risk plus the 25 games or so plus playoffs that he would get from Boogie.
Alas, the Kings appear to be keeping him...
You are overvaluing youth, underrating defense and doing some serious projections. You honestly think Marcus Smart is in the discussion for being just as good as Butler? In 3 years, Devin Booker could be scoring 35 a night but unless something drastically changes, he'll be giving up 40 on the other end. At this very moment in time, Devin Booker isn't even as good as Avery Bradley. I'll be generous and give you Wiggins based on his performance since the LaVine injury (31.1ppg, 4.0rpg, 3.0apg, 1.9spg on .535/.433/.796 shooting in 7 games) but he's done this before just to regress back to the guy he's been since drafted. McCollum doesn't play a lick of defense but he is one of the best pure shooters in the game and is still improving but he's not at Butler's class yet.
That leaves Klay, Harden, Hayward, Beal and DeRozan. That's a great list to be on. I think this board criminally underrated DeRozan. It's almost as if people think he sucks and it's all Kyle Lowry. I'd put Beal firmly behind the other 4 and Butler.
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Fultz I wouldn't deal. He scores too smoothly from everywhere on the court and those guys are rare. It may take him a year for the NBA game to slow down for him, but he's going to be good for a long long time. Anyone else on my top five list I would trade, though.
I have Josh Jackson over Ball at the moment, as he's a much better defender and has the physical tools to be an elite one in the NBA (whereas Ball has terrible lateral quickness). But I'd deal him for Butler in a cocaine heartbeat.
No dispute on your talent assessment but regardless of the player, history shows that it typically takes these guys a few seasons, at least to figure it out.
Thats not to say that there won't be flashes of what a player is capable of during their first year (e.g. Jaylen Brown ) but they really don't get their consistency for a few seasons.
Yeah, if they take Fultz it may take a few years but that's the beauty of their current situation. The team is currently competitive, well-coached, and fun to watch. A perfect training ground for young elite talent to be added to the mix as quickly as warranted. This team and that new talent probably won't ripen together, but some of the current pieces will be flipped over time to build the next iteration for a good long run. If the athleticism of that team matches their likely very high draft positions, it might be a team breathtaking to watch.
Well, Smart is 4 years younger and doesn't have a bad knee. And he makes game winning plays night after night, some of them jaw-dropping.
What has Butler done, really? In his first year, at age 22, he hardly played on a 50-win team, averaging 2.6 ppg. Jaylen Brown (age 20), in his first year on a good team, blows those numbers away. This year Butler is taking a whopping 16.5 shots a game and shooting only 33.5% from beyond the arc. His efg% is under 5.
The much maligned Avery Bradly was attempting 15 shots a game until his injury, shooting 41% from beyond the arc with an efg% of 54.5 and pulling down 7 rebounds a game (to Butler's 6). Isaiah Thomas (19 shots a game) is shooting 38.5% from beyond the arc with an efg% of 54.9, plus 91% from the line. And Jae Crowder (10 shots a game) is shooting 41.1% from 3 point range with an efg% of .586. Crowder is also shooting 87% from the line.
So why is everyone so hot to relinquish the Nets pick so that Butler can take shots away from better shooters? Butler is a fine defender, but so are Bradley and Crowder.
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What Jimmy Butler did on the basketball court at age 22 is relevant to what he is doing now at age 27? And 16.5 shots per game is a "whopping" total? That places him at 26th in the league. You're also ignoring the fact he gets to the FT line 10 times a game at an .865 clip. That's a huge thing to ignore. He is also a far better playmaker than Bradley or Crowder. I don't even want Jimmy Butler but come on dude. Did he run over your dog? He's taking less than 20% of his team's shots and less than Dwayne Wade. He's the teams 1st option. If anything, he should be taking more shots but that number is artificially suppressed because of his 9.6 FTA per game. You talk about shots per game and all but you conveniently leave out that Butler is averaging 24.8 ppg on those 16.5 shots. His 1.48 points per shot beats out Crowder by almost a tenth of point and is barely behind IT4.
Your argument against him is taking 3 players on the Celtics and combining them into one player that is better than Jimmy Butler. Marcus Smart is arguably a better play maker, Bradley this year is a better rebounder, Jae Crowder hits FT's and 3's better. If you take those 3 players best skills and merge them into one super player... sure that player is better than Butler.
It's one thing to want to keep the pick but to say Marcus Smart is better than Jimmy Butler? Ok. What the hell has Marcus Smart done, really? Made some game winning plays in regular season games? Cool. Do you think Jimmy Butler puts up 24.4ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.9apg, 1.9spg without making some game winning plays? And it's not like it's his first year doing it, it's his 3rd. And he's gotten better every single year of his career. You come across as a total hater.
It's true, this is Butler's first year at this level. But it's such a good level that that can't be a real deterrent. He's 3rd in RPM, every Bulls unit is dramatically better with him on the court, he's playing good defense, and is taking a lot of shots at a high usage leel, and has an assist rate of 23% without a lot in the way of turnovers. He really does it all. He's not the most dominant guy at any aspect, but he's a plus at almost all of them. Regardless of position, he's in that very next level below guys like Kawhi, Durant, and Harden. The only flag is that he's already 27, has an injury history, and Thibs played him for a ton of minutes.
Jaylen Brown is a dog to ever be as good as Butler was in year 2, let alone this year.
Jaylen Brown is a dog to ever be as good as Butler was in year 2, let alone this year.
Well, the Bulls are 27-29, so Butler obviously hasn't made enough game winning plays. Really, the individual numbers he puts up don't impress me. The Bulls are a mess, and even Rajon Rondo knows it.
I didn't say Smart was better. I said he was 4 years younger and (impliedly) improving. If you want to assume that Smart at age 27 won't be as good as Butler is now, you are free to do so.
As for Jaylen Brown, I said his numbers this year were better than Butler's in Butler's rookie year. That's simply a fact. I have no idea if Brown will become as good as Butler is now, but I wouldn't rule it out.
I didn't say Smart was better. I said he was 4 years younger and (impliedly) improving. If you want to assume that Smart at age 27 won't be as good as Butler is now, you are free to do so.
As for Jaylen Brown, I said his numbers this year were better than Butler's in Butler's rookie year. That's simply a fact. I have no idea if Brown will become as good as Butler is now, but I wouldn't rule it out.
When Smart is 27, IT4 will be 32 and Al Horford will be 34. So even if Marcus Smart does somehow become as valuable as Jimmy Butler, it would be with a completely different core unless he takes the leap in the next 2 years.
And punishing Butler for the Bulls 27-29 record is like punishing Anthony Davis for the Pelican's problems. Without Butler, they are slightly better than the Nets.
Either way, I don't want him for the Nets pick but I don't see how he's really any different than Paul George or any of the other guys you listed not named Harden.
And punishing Butler for the Bulls 27-29 record is like punishing Anthony Davis for the Pelican's problems. Without Butler, they are slightly better than the Nets.
Either way, I don't want him for the Nets pick but I don't see how he's really any different than Paul George or any of the other guys you listed not named Harden.
I'd add that I don't understand why people insist the Cousins is worth a fortune but seem to balk at a similar price for Butler. They are very similar overall talents. I'd give up more for Cousins because I think he fits this roster better and because I think he's a matchup problem for the best teams in the league in a way Butler isn't. But, I also think they are the same tier of player and if there's a big gap in asking price, it would be foolish to acquire the pricier option. I don't really want Butler at what I think he will cost, at least not before we know if Hayward would consider signing here, but that's not because I don't think he's a really good NBA player. That fact shouldn't be debatable.
That's fair but most of that differing value comes down to what you said. He's worth more essentially because he's taller and plays a position harder to fill. He fits the roster better and he creates match up problems. He's a rarer commodity. I'd guess the gap between an average SG and Jimmy Butler is far smaller than the gap between DeMarcus Cousins and the average C/PF.
I'm also of the believe that Cousins could end up in that top tier of players if he was ever in the right situation. He pretty much has to do everything in Sacramento. It's even worse since Rudy Gay went down. Over his last 30 games he's putting up something like 27 points, 11 rebounds and 6.5 assists. Add some real players around him, take some of the offensive load off and watch him prosper is the thinking.
I'm also of the believe that Cousins could end up in that top tier of players if he was ever in the right situation. He pretty much has to do everything in Sacramento. It's even worse since Rudy Gay went down. Over his last 30 games he's putting up something like 27 points, 11 rebounds and 6.5 assists. Add some real players around him, take some of the offensive load off and watch him prosper is the thinking.
If the price for Butler is 2017 #1 + lesser asset or 2, I do it in a heartbeat. If they want both Brooklyn picks or 2017 + Jaylen or something, just not worth it for me.
Well. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Demarcus Cousins, Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis are all on teams with a worse record than the Bulls.
Are they also not that good because they obviously haven't made enough game winning plays?
Downgrading a guy because his teammates aren't very good is a weird argument.
I think the Celtics need to have an honest look at whether their chances at a title are better with either 1) trading picks for talent and trying to beat out the Cavs, Warriors and Spurs now or 2) dealing fungible talent and picks for higher picks to try and win a title in the 3-6 year window.
As much as I love Isaiah Thomas, the Machiavellian version of me says that trading him now is the best course. Star players switching teams usually take a year to adjust to their new teammates (although there are exceptions: Durant does not seem to have lost anything this year) so we probably are not winning a title this year even with a trade for Butler. Trading away half of our cavalcade of combo guards would be better for the half that remain.
The sentimental version of me thinks that our coaches and players have earned a shot at Cleveland, though. And at some point you have to pull the trigger and take your best shot. I think the Cavs' title window will be closed in three years, but some other team might be stronger then.
As much as I love Isaiah Thomas, the Machiavellian version of me says that trading him now is the best course. Star players switching teams usually take a year to adjust to their new teammates (although there are exceptions: Durant does not seem to have lost anything this year) so we probably are not winning a title this year even with a trade for Butler. Trading away half of our cavalcade of combo guards would be better for the half that remain.
The sentimental version of me thinks that our coaches and players have earned a shot at Cleveland, though. And at some point you have to pull the trigger and take your best shot. I think the Cavs' title window will be closed in three years, but some other team might be stronger then.
I didn't watch the game because I am traveling but the idea that Butler or Cousins or Davis aren't winning players because their teams dont have winning records is silly. Every one of those squads is a dumpster fire loaded with tires (and fueled by kerosene in the Pelicans case). LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, Westbrook, Harden and Curry would all struggle those squads.
if the price is really just the 2017 Brooklyn 1st (plus filler and second tier assets), I think Ainge makes the move for any one of Cousins, George or Butler, and it vaults the C's to contender status (with still plenty of elite young prospects incoming / developing). That's a deal you do every time. I am sort of shocked there's this much controversy on this board.
Cousins will cost more as others have noted upthread. And I think Ainge wouldn't blink were he to become available. He is younger than Butler, is elite at his position and is a huge compliment to the roster.
I have nothing to base this on except for the interview posted here but I think Boogie is Ainge's White Whale.
Trading Thomas right now would be like when the Bulls traded Brand, Artest, Miller, et al. to put together the almighty Curry/Chandler duo.
But the Celts don't have to do that trade to get high picks in the next two years, they already have them.
Talk of D.Rose being a trade target for teams, to get his bird rights. Does he still think he is getting a 5 year max? That is crazy talk. Getting paid for past performance if the performance really is in the past is going to fade away in the coming years as GMs should be getting smarter with the cap.
Here's a fantasy league trade that only took two times through the trade machine to work. I think it's kind of plausible and makes me even more convinced Ainge isn't going to sit tight through another deadline.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine
Celtics get
Butler
Melo
Mirotic
Knicks
A. Johnson
Kelly O
D Jackson
J . Mickey
2018 Celtics First Rounder
Bulls
Rozier
J Crowder
Zeller
Jerebeko
2018 Nets Pick
Starting linuep after tradepackolypse
PG Thomas
SG Bradley/ Butler
SF Bradley/Butler
PF- Melo
C- Horford
Bench
Smart
Brown
Green
Mirotic
Young
Big plus
( current nets pick retained)
Why the Teams Do/Don't - There's a compelling case that the Celtics don't need to do anything and instead just let the chips fall where they may. Or that bringing in Melo in this type of deal isn't even necessary. However, I'd say this lineup gives the Cavs problems and competes with the Warriors if they gel in time or if Melo can just play K. Love type D w/ needed rebounding( not asking for a ton) .
Melo's D is the issue/ fly in the ointment. Then again the Celtics wouldn't be giving up a boatload. Some interesting young guys and their probably late round first a year out for him and the bench has plenty of defense.
Butler is the main piece. The Celtics fork over Crowder Rozier and the Nets pick a year out still basically guaranteed to be a top 4 pick. The Bulls probably balk and demand Bradley or Smart as well. I don't think I go that far. Putting Brown in likely tilts it to be way too favorable for Bulls and I'm not willing to give up on Brown yet.
Bottom line - The team your left with is a little thin on bench and will need to gel with three ball dominant guys in Thomas Butler and Anthony. The plus side you make yourself a honest to goodness threat for three years with 4 guys Thomas, Horford, Melo, and Butler who seem pretty complimentary if you believe Stevens can extract Olympic Melo. The trade also doesn't mortgage future as Brown Smart and Nets picks are still around to develop around the star guys.
I recognize there's a ton of caveats and wishcasting in this deal particularly re Bulls taking that deal for Butler or Melo not playing to his worst tendencies but I didn't think it would be that easy to craft something like it. I think Ainge is very active at deadline.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine
Celtics get
Butler
Melo
Mirotic
Knicks
A. Johnson
Kelly O
D Jackson
J . Mickey
2018 Celtics First Rounder
Bulls
Rozier
J Crowder
Zeller
Jerebeko
2018 Nets Pick
Starting linuep after tradepackolypse
PG Thomas
SG Bradley/ Butler
SF Bradley/Butler
PF- Melo
C- Horford
Bench
Smart
Brown
Green
Mirotic
Young
Big plus
( current nets pick retained)
Why the Teams Do/Don't - There's a compelling case that the Celtics don't need to do anything and instead just let the chips fall where they may. Or that bringing in Melo in this type of deal isn't even necessary. However, I'd say this lineup gives the Cavs problems and competes with the Warriors if they gel in time or if Melo can just play K. Love type D w/ needed rebounding( not asking for a ton) .
Melo's D is the issue/ fly in the ointment. Then again the Celtics wouldn't be giving up a boatload. Some interesting young guys and their probably late round first a year out for him and the bench has plenty of defense.
Butler is the main piece. The Celtics fork over Crowder Rozier and the Nets pick a year out still basically guaranteed to be a top 4 pick. The Bulls probably balk and demand Bradley or Smart as well. I don't think I go that far. Putting Brown in likely tilts it to be way too favorable for Bulls and I'm not willing to give up on Brown yet.
Bottom line - The team your left with is a little thin on bench and will need to gel with three ball dominant guys in Thomas Butler and Anthony. The plus side you make yourself a honest to goodness threat for three years with 4 guys Thomas, Horford, Melo, and Butler who seem pretty complimentary if you believe Stevens can extract Olympic Melo. The trade also doesn't mortgage future as Brown Smart and Nets picks are still around to develop around the star guys.
I recognize there's a ton of caveats and wishcasting in this deal particularly re Bulls taking that deal for Butler or Melo not playing to his worst tendencies but I didn't think it would be that easy to craft something like it. I think Ainge is very active at deadline.
So, the Celtics get the two best players in a three-team deal ... and keep what could be the No. 1 pick in the draft?
That's not "plausible," despite it working in the trade machine ... that's fanboy wish-fulfillment
If they landed Fultz, and the Bulls would take Thomas as part of the package instead of a Nets pick, I'd be awfully tempted.
Also Boston isn't trading Butler's BFF in any Butler trade scenario. If Butler's incoming Crowder's not going anywhere. There's also zero need for Anthony if you're bringing in Butler while keeping Lil' Zeke. There wouldn't be enough basketballs on the floor for Anthony and Butler (not to mention that Butler would likely murder Melo for his lollygagging on the defensive end).
Stevens will employ the Pawn Shop Offense -- one ball for Melo, one for Butler and one for Thomas.
The deal is not going to happen. But that's more or less what NY would get for Melo -- maybe throw in the pick they have from Memphis (with protection). And Butler for next year's Nets pick plus Crowder at a crazy cheap deal and Rozier? That doesn't seem far off either. If someone wants to make a trade, the C's have a crazy amount of assets.
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I think there are at least a half dozen teams that could/would offer more than that for Butler. And one of those teams is the Celtics 
The 2018 pick is valuable, but it really could be the number 7+ pick for all we know. When trading a top 10'ish player, you need more than that. Crowder is a nice affordable piece, but Rozier offers nothing. I mean, teams would like to have him probably, but he isn't moving the needle much.
If the 2017 pick is off the table, then Brown has gotta be included.
The 2018 pick is valuable, but it really could be the number 7+ pick for all we know. When trading a top 10'ish player, you need more than that. Crowder is a nice affordable piece, but Rozier offers nothing. I mean, teams would like to have him probably, but he isn't moving the needle much.
If the 2017 pick is off the table, then Brown has gotta be included.
Can the Celts get any discount because Butler and the Bulls just stole a win from the Celtics thanks to a dubious call. Also, Butler is a great player but came off like a jerk in his quotes after the game.I think there are at least a half dozen teams that could/would offer more than that for Butler. And one of those teams is the Celtics
The 2018 pick is valuable, but it really could be the number 7+ pick for all we know. When trading a top 10'ish player, you need more than that. Crowder is a nice affordable piece, but Rozier offers nothing. I mean, teams would like to have him probably, but he isn't moving the needle much.
If the 2017 pick is off the table, then Brown has gotta be included.
Disclaimer: Celtic fan bias
Edit - just saw that Butler answered a question about losing his mind if a call like that would have been made on him and he said correct. At least he is honest and I no longer think he was too much of a jerk about it.
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If Butler is traded it will likely be during the offseason. But if it were before the trade deadline his game winning FTs will be a sad sight to see the Bulls wave goodbye to him after.
From the Bulls point of view they would be crazy to trade him. Fire Hoiberg and Gar before trading him, no doubt about it.
From the Bulls point of view they would be crazy to trade him. Fire Hoiberg and Gar before trading him, no doubt about it.
If there is anything this thread has shown me is that I have no idea how to properly assess the tradable values of the picks or the current players in the league. Truly every time I think player X is roughly worth $ or equal to player Y or pick A one of you posts something and I realize I'm dead wrong... Or didn't think of that other thing.
So carry on, and thanks in advance for showing me why NBA GM isn't ever going to be on my resume.
So carry on, and thanks in advance for showing me why NBA GM isn't ever going to be on my resume.